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Kudos5

Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Hi everyone,

How do I complain (give input) to Symantec about Norton?

I've been a loyal Norton user since the early 90's. Until now, I personally hadn't had any major problems with Norton. That had enabled me to convince a lot of people over the years to switch to Norton; even disgruntled users. (I always emphasized the importance of disabling Norton before installing any new trusted software and the importance of definitions updates.)
 
Before, when the Norton subscription expired, only the definitions stopped updating. Everything else kept working. This gave me some leeway to update Norton. I could update it when it was convenient to me: before or a little while after it expired.

Now, instead of just the definition updates ending after the subscription expires, all of the Norton protection shuts down. At first I thought they just made it appear that way to scare people to purchase the renewal faster. But after looking at it and from what I've read about it, the protection does end.
 
It appears that Symantec wants everyone to purchase their renewal or even set up their auto-renewal. I purchase the latest version of Norton every year. This is why I don't purchase their renewal. Now, since Norton shuts down after the subscription expires, I have to purchase and receive the new version, plus I have to schedule time to uninstall the old Norton and install the new Norton before the subscription expires. This means I will no longer get my full year's subscription. This may sound petty of me, but I use computers for my business. This also means if I forget to purchase and install the new version on one of my computers before the subscription expires, just once, I could catch a virus (or something) and loose valuable irreplaceable information. That's too risky for me.

Another bothersome inconvenience is that I now need to contact a lot of people and warn them about this Norton problem. Unfortunately, I'm expecting hostility toward me and Norton.
 
I am very disappointed and upset with Symantec. They may think this will raise their sales and it may for a short while. But I think in the long run it will be detrimental to them.
 
I'm hoping that this was simply a bad decision by Symantec and that they will correct it. Does anyone know if they've decided to change future versions back to the way it was? Or, should I look for a different company to keep me computers safe?
 
Best regards,

CalvinOU812

Replies

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

I think Norton started this with their N360 in2008.

I also do not renew on-line, I prefer to buy the disk each year for the benefit of being able to reload it if necessary, without having to be on-line.

My feeling is that there should be say a fortnights grace, for people on holidays, or, heaven forbid, who are ill.

Not nice when you come out of Hospital, and have to sort this worry out before you can go on the Web.

Still, I suppose Norton have their reasons, don't know if they're allowed to tell us though.

Kudos2

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

We are just purchasing the subscription to use Symantec's software for a year.  When the year is up, the software no longer works.  The subscription is finished.  Even a grace period is difficult, because people being people, would then wait to the end of the grace period to update their subscription.

I don't think the idea is to increase sales, but to prevent users from becoming infected while continuing to use a product with out-dated definitions.  It is a poor security company that allows people to continue with a false sense of security that they are being protected, when they really aren't protected at all.

Under certain circumstances profanity provides relief denied even to prayer.Mark Twain
Kudos2

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

You can get the latest version of the "same" Norton product for free with a valid subscription.  For example, you can "upgrade" from NIS2009 to NIS2010 for free, online at the Norton Update Center, and carry over whatever remaining time there is on your subscription.  So, if the problem with renewals was that you thought you could not get the latest version, that is not so.  You could purchase online renewals, get the latest versions and not lose any subscription time at all.  The Update Center will check you product and tell you if there is a newer version available, direct you to the download and even start the process of downloading / updating to the latest version if you wish.  Of course, you can still download the latest installers, Norton Recovery Tool, etc. from the web site if you wish to have a "hard" copy on hand.
Win7 x32 SP1
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Hi Calvin

To answer your question that you stated in your first line of your post, you just did complain to Symantec by creating your thread. Symantec employees do read these threads and sometimes make comments also. The Symantec employees are those in RED.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view.
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Hi! CalvinOU812,

It is unwise to use a security product beyond the subscription time because it leads to a false sense of security.  This is why Symantec and almost all other security program manufacturers have the program shut down completely; I say almost all because there are some security programs out there that are free and do not have a subscription period.  However, these security programs do not provide the level of security that Norton does.  Besides this, Symantec does start giving you notice of expiration 30 days prior to the subscription expiring and every day during the 30 day time frame.  If you purchase your new product during that time you can wait until the subscription  expires and then install the product.  You can also do as was suggested earlier in this thread and use the update center to get the latest version of the software and just simply enter in the product key from the purchased copy thereby minimizing product down time.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

I was planning to renew within days. I was waiting for my credit card billing date which occurred at about the time of the subscription expiry date. When I started my computer and was greeted with the warning that NIS was disabled and that I couldn't even access my passwords stored in the password manager I decided to think twice about renewing my subscription.

I find it hard to trust a company that uses this type of marketing, essentially holding their customers hostage, to get them to open their wallets. Who are these guys, mafia?

It's too bad because the product has been greatly improved since the debacle with the 2007 version. I subscribed during the version 2006 period for 2 years and removed the product after 1 because it was a dog eating up resources like crazy. They've managed to pull a complete 360 and are once again the top recommended product. I have no qualms about the goods, but...

Fortunately for me I kept my passwords in a separate database just in case. I pity the people who didn't, although, subscribing for another year as long as it works as well as it does now wouldn't be that onerous. I just don't like rewarding a company that uses such practices out of principal.

-Still undecided...

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Hi

Didn't you get warnings for like 30 days that your subscription was ending? If you have car insurance for a year and you don't renew it before it expires, does it not end on the expiration date? If you have a prescription for a medicine that has renewals on it and you try to renew it again after the prescription period ends, do you not have to get another doctor's prescription in order to get your necessary pills? If you had a reason like wanting to wait a day or 2, you should have contacted customer support. They MAY have been able to help you out, I don't know if they could have or not.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view.
Kudos2

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


rug wrote:

Fortunately for me I kept my passwords in a separate database just in case. I pity the people who didn't, although, subscribing for another year as long as it works as well as it does now wouldn't be that onerous. I just don't like rewarding a company that uses such practices out of principal.


Just as a point of information, there is a method to recover your Identity Safe data once your subscription has expired.  The data can be accessed and exported as a comma delimited file.  Norton does not prevent you from recovering this information simply because you no longer have a valid subscription. 

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nco.nsf/0/e5a44e06f97b3f89882572260060120f?OpenDocument&seg=hm&lg=en&ct=us
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

We are warned, via a popup, of what will happen when our subscriptions run out.

So we have been warned,   and it's Norton who are calling the shots,   whether we like it or not.

Saying that, I for one would like to see a 14 day grace where Norton is still usable, but without Updates of course.

This would be the choice of the user, and give the chance to renew,  belatedly, for whatever reason.

Any renewal would count from the original expiration date.

This would show goodwill on Norton's part, and perharps stop a few clients from going elsewhere.

I know Norton may say that without updates, it could be false security, but then, it's better than searching for/downloading another security prog without any anti-virus protection at all.

Goodwill goes a long way.

As I said earlier, Norton calls the shots,   we paid for 1 or 2 years,   and that's what we get.

We are warned, so we make our choice.

Let's hope it's the right one,  

The saying goes, " Don't jump out of the Frying Pan,  into the Fire".

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

In general I have to agree with Calvin not particularly on his main point but the whole online industry seem hell bent on obtaining the maximum out of it's customers. I have used Norton products for more years than I care to remember, spent many hundreds of £'s not only on anti-virus software but the whole range which Norton provide They hate it when you don't use "Auto Renewal", I want to control my finances and decide when I want to release my funds not some far off corporation.

I will have a problem when my 85 year old fathers subscription comes to an end as I have always looked after things like this for him however, this year I have been away from home for more than 6 months and will probably not have the opportunity to visit before the subscription ends, so he will more than likely be completely unprotected for a time rather than having a slightly out of date protection which with other things I have in place on his laptop would be sufficient cover for a short period. We would be happy for Norton to "backdate" the actual renewal so that he does not obtain more than 12 months subscription but I guess this will not be possible now. Other companies are able to do this eg WinZip let you continue and when you pay the annual fee it is back dated to the end of the previous subscription.

I do find the blind faith in companies rather disturbing.

Michael

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

I found it sad too that Symantec has gone this route.  I can understand the updates not working anymore but the rest should continue to work.  Having the backup side and other functonality shut down is just wrong.  The box should clearly state that you are renting the software not buying it.  I have been using norton forever and this is a basic business policy shift.  I know al the arguements about keeping updated but being left naked and terminating other functionality was enough to cause me to leave Norton.  Customers should not be treated this way by putting a generic reference in small print on the side of a box about updates expiring and disabling the entire product.
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

This thread may help you install a 30 day "trial" version of NIS (Norton Internet Security 2010) http://community.norton.com/norton/board/message?board.id=nis_feedback&message.id=83877#M83877

BTW, if you REALLY need NIS in a hurry, go buy it in you local store (using cash).

Plus, a magazine subscription (or just about any subscription) is using the same route as Symantec.  For example, you have a subscription to Times magazine.  Does Times keep sending you magazine AFTER your subscription is over?  I think not...  It should be right that Symantec shut down after it's subscription is over.  As I said above, there is other ways to go around this issue.  One way is to install a 30 day "trial" version.  Another way is to go to the stores and buy the CD version (full version or upgrade version doesn't matter).

Message Edited by Wikipedian on 11-28-2009 10:12 PM
“ We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard ”--President John F. Kennedy
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


iebfr14 wrote:
The box should clearly state that you are renting the software not buying it. 

Hi iebfr14,

Actually I would be surprised if you had ownership rights to any software on your computer.  Virtually all software is licensed, giving you the right to use the software under the terms of the dreaded Licensing Agreement.  The Norton box clearly states "1 Year Protection (See top for details.)"  

It should be noted that many other security software vendors, even if their product continues to function after expiration, also prohibit the user from continuing to run the product.  The License Agreements will state something similar to the following McAfee clause:

Upon any termination or expiration of this Agreement, you must cease use of the Software and destroy all copies of the Software and the Documentation.

So even if the product does not stop working on its own, you have agreed to render the product non-operational at the end of the term of the license, anyway.  So unless one wants to argue that a user should be less bound by an agreement than the software provider, I really don't see the issue here. 

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

We could all give details of where Companies, Clubs, Organisations and other bodies give or do not give a short period of grace. I guess it depends on how seriously an organisation takes customers service and how how important individual customers are to them.

Surely it is not beyond the gumption of a large organisation to work out the serious long term customer who has renewed each year for many years and the "freebie" program hopper!!!!

Michael

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

I've been using NIS for years and at times it has been a bit of a love/hate relationship. I made the mistake of upgrading from NIS to 360 when it first came out and despite having bought a 3 user license I only ever installed it on 1 machine as it was so bad. I've worked in the software industry for 30 years so I want something that isn't too nannying which is why I prefer NIS to 360.

However in the past I understood that I BOUGHT the software and SUBSCRIBED to the updates. Tonight I have been presented with a screen telling me if I don't renew I won't be protected. This is a first, I'm being held to ransom without even stepping outside my front door. This tosh about this being a "feature", that Symmantec are so concerned about peoples secuirty that they don't want them running software with virus definitions that are a few days out of date, is a load of marketing spin (I'm being polite).

(Un)fortunately I had already purchased a 3-user license copy of NIS 2010 for considerably less than the renewal price I was offered. So now I will go thru and install the new version tomorrow so I will be protected again and then I will make a note in my diary for next November to research an alternative, before my subscription runs out.

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

This new policy is outrageous.  Regardless of the yards of fine print that no one ever reads, the standard in the industry is that we buy the software and subscribe to the updates.  I have never - never - before run across a program that just stops working.

It is particularly disgusting that this new policy first appears on a program upon which we depend to keep our computers safe from malicious attack.

I disagree that this is "for our own good", so we don't depend on outdated virus definitions.  If that were the case, warning messages could be displayed that definitions are outdated, as in previous versions.  It's just greed.

What it amounts to, Symantec is using all those virus-writing hackers out there as a weapon to extort us into buying another year from them.  For me, this crosses the line from commerce to thuggery.

I feel like there is a gun to my head, and the company holding it is the one I've trusted to keep my computers safe.

Yes, strong language.  But in my opinion, Symantec has crossed not only a marketing line but a moral one.

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

As previously discussed on this forum,  Other paid for AV software have in their agreements that once you subscription expires you are to remove /uninstall our software and refrain from further use.  

" new policy first appears on a program upon which we depend to keep our computers safe from malicious attack"

" one I've trusted to keep my computers safe." 

hahahaha,

 Keep your PC's safe from what??  when the software is out of date and any definitions and other updates won't be on those PC's, So any new exploit, Malware or breach (new way to bypass)  won't be detected anyway as new Malware appears every day.

So your PC's are NOT safe using outdated security software of any brand.  Any one who thinks it is, is mis guided. 

If people trust a certain piece of security software  then paying for the years subscription is a lot cheaper than every time having a PC tech reverse what the Malware has done including to the OS, Can be that one visit from a PC tech can cost the same or more than 1 years subscription.

Let alone the PC techs expression when he/she looks and sees any security software way out of date. and that is why the malware that has infected a PC got though even though the malware is 2 months old. 

Quads 

Message Edited by Quads on 12-01-2009 02:40 PM
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


CalvinOU812 wrote:
... [a lot of stuff] ...

I'd like to summarize the responses to this query and add one or two remarks of my own.

1.  The software industry is moving toward a subscription model.  There is too much "lending" of software and too little acceptance of upgrades for software companies to make a profit.  While this in itself doesn't bother me in general, there are too aspects of it that does concern me:  a) without making a sufficient profit, they will stop providing support. b) without making a sufficient profit, they will stop upgrading their product to work in new operating systems, in extended venues, with other software, to work with new features.  Most of us have been forced to move to an upgrade eventually, not for lack of support but because eventually they have features that have become essential to us. So, yes, I have no problem with a good company needing to maintain self-sufficiency.  The subscription model will probably prove more effective in that happening in a fair way.

2.  What to do when the subscription expires?  Well my newspaper (remember them?) is desperate for subscribers to add to their numbers to sell themselves to advertisers, so they "advance" me numerous weeks, begging me to extend my subscription.  If I do, I have to pay for those extended weeks; if not, well, they eat it.  That model won't work for Symantec.  They can extend me a week to a month, after which I can then cancel that subscription and install a retail model I bought for almost free and they will have to eat the extended time.  Period.  As a user model, that might make sense, but when it extends to a large portion of the general public, it makes no business sense.  Because ...

3.  The warning nags start a month before expiration.  30 whole days!  Only an absolute brain-dead moron would not be able to cope with preparing for that deadline.  They could have coped with it last year:  Buy two copies of that almost free NIS and use the activation code when the clock has ticked down -- for those really desperate and who believe that protecting their computer and everything it relates to is less valuable than buying two tickets to a football game or eating one dinner out by themselves.  Come on, now.  Thirty days - and it will warn you right up to the last minute.  So at the last minute, pop in your activation code and you're set for another year.  Because ...

4.  Upgrades as we think of them has become "updates" in the Symantec nomenclature.  I may not like the mangling of the English language, but the reality of what it does for me is very satisfying.  Whatever version of NIS is currently being hawked, I can download that version for free and install it at will as long as my account is active.

Personally, I have a suspicion that eventually Symantec will extend a free week.  No updates, but a week to get your act straight.  If you're willing to have your credit card account "borrowed", your email redirected, your computer turned into a "zombie" in order to gain an extra week of free Norton, then what the hay, why not let you have it.  You can lead an idiot to a good idea, but you can't make him think.  Hmm, at full, non-discounted retail, $80 for three licenses, you will have saved -- let me calculate -- ummm -- $1.60.

OMG!

Message Edited by mijcar on 11-30-2009 08:02 PMMessage Edited by mijcar on 11-30-2009 08:05 PM
mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

I forgot:

5.  But what if I want to keep the software and not worry about updating the signature files?  

     The problem, though, is all the good people out there who are nice and don't really want to hurt themselves, but who aren't computer savvy enough to "get it".  They really believe in their hearts that it is the application and not the updates that provide them protection.  Heaven help me, the clients who have called me up in desperation back in the days when they could decide when to update their antivirus signatures ... and then never did so because it wasn't convenient or when it would have been convenient they had forgotten.  Those poor, sweet, harmless human beings who just didn't get it ... until it got them!

     Those are the people I want to look out for.  Not you people who know what you're doing and are trying to save a buck; but the three million or so other people who don't really know how to use a security suite properly.  So Symantec is making it clear to them.  If you don't subscribe, you don't have a security suite.  Period.  So wake up and get one.  The next time they start getting those nag notices, they'll start paying attention.  Or the time after that.  

[edit: Please refrain from posting content that could be considered offensive per the Participation Guidelines and Terms of Service.]

Message Edited by shannons on 11-30-2009 07:53 PM
mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

The newspaper analogy is not a good one.  But to the extent anyone accepts it, it supports my position.  If my newspaper subscription expired yesterday, the carrier does not enter my house, grab yesterday's paper, and take it back.  I can read yesterday's paper as long as I want.  Its value degrades with time, but it is mine and I can keep it.  I just don't get today's update.

I still use software that I bought three, five, even ten years ago.  No one else takes it back.

What I don't get is the latest version.  That's OK.  If I want the latest version I will buy an update.

I use Quicken.  Every three years my version stops getting stock prices over the Internet.  If I want to continue the update service I buy a new copy.  If I don't, the old program will keep working, just not with the stock price update service.  That's OK.

If I want to take a chance and go a few days or a week without updating my Norton virus definitions, that's my decision.

But for Symantec to reach into my computer and turn off a program I bought - that's wrong.  Yes, they can write it into the fine print and make it legal.  I concede it is legal.

But it's not the industry standard.  And it's wrong.

No other program in my computer works that way.  None.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


bilofsky wrote:

The newspaper analogy is not a good one.  But to the extent anyone accepts it, it supports my position.  If my newspaper subscription expired yesterday, the carrier does not enter my house, grab yesterday's paper, and take it back.  I can read yesterday's paper as long as I want.  Its value degrades with time, but it is mine and I can keep it.  I just don't get today's update.

I still use software that I bought three, five, even ten years ago.  No one else takes it back.

What I don't get is the latest version.  That's OK.  If I want the latest version I will buy an update.

I use Quicken.  Every three years my version stops getting stock prices over the Internet.  If I want to continue the update service I buy a new copy.  If I don't, the old program will keep working, just not with the stock price update service.  That's OK.

If I want to take a chance and go a few days or a week without updating my Norton virus definitions, that's my decision.

But for Symantec to reach into my computer and turn off a program I bought - that's wrong.  Yes, they can write it into the fine print and make it legal.  I concede it is legal.

But it's not the industry standard.  And it's wrong.

No other program in my computer works that way.  None.


As you said, the newspaper analogy is not a good one; but then you leapt on that dieing horse and went gallumphing off.

So I'll just follow along the trail.

No one's stealing your copy of NIS.  It's sitting right there in your computer.  You just can't make it do anything it wasn't intended to do.

I think the horse is dead by now.  Do you still insist on beating it?

Come on, already!

You have just killed heaven knows how many pixels to make an argument for your right to keep a software application that if it did load and run would be more dangerous (because it implies a non-existent safety) than not having one at all.

This is your argument?

I won't ask you to share your name, so I can actually publish this on my on personal website to share with the rest of the world.  Mostly, because I don't think anyone would actually believe this is what you mounted your charger for.  Children are dieing in Africa, white slavery abounds in South America and the Far East, drugs are weakening entire societies, rain forests are being destroyed in the name of technology, drug companies are withholding cures for terrible diseases simply because of lack of ability to pay, teenage pregnancy is rampant ... and this is the battle worthy of your time?

As for your contention that no other program on your computer does that, that is specious.  How many apps did you have that wouldn't load in Windows XP?  In Windows Vista?  And now in Windows 7.  Hey, you bought those applications.  You bought the right to have them run any time you want them to, didn't you?  And by golly, they should.  So, why don't they?  And what about that printer, that camera, that scanner, the other hardware that wouldn't come over because some company didn't take the few hours necessary to write you drivers (that, btw, I think is much more of a crime, that a perfectly functional piece of hardware won't function for lack of code rather than lack of capability)?

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Don't worry Mijcar

People who I have had to spend some hours removing a group of Malware  Combination  because once 1 gets in it floods more in realise their mistake and are very happy to pay a year subscription to as it's a lot cheaper in many ways to buy a top security software, than to think that the PC is stuffed, as good as a doorstop, while realising that have important docs on the HD, and they buy a new subscription before the old one is finished.

I still remember the PC I dealt with that had 8 sets of rootkits, Virut and gawd knows what else, I had a fight my hands for hours, but Quads one.

But the family learned  their lesson.

Quads 

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

One or two posters particularly those writing in support of Symantec are close to the limit of being rude, if not already over the limit!

I have always renewed any subscription whether for Norton or any other software supplier in advance of the subscription running out in addition renewed through the Norton website direct rather than looking for cheaper methods.

My father who is relatively new to the internet has relied on me to help him with such matters, he did not have the benefit of using computers at work as he retired 25 years ago before they were in everyday use even in the workplace. I think he has done well to firstly obtain an old pc to help him with a hobby and more recently buying a new laptop and using the internet. We both could have used the internet security provided in my subscription to my ISP which was Norton now McAfee, which is one reason why I don't use it, but I prefer to have Norton installed seperately.

Yes it is always necessary to keep any antimalware program upto date but as already explained I am working away from home and it is very unlikely that I will be able to return home until after Norton expires early next month. Surely Norton which is 99% upto date is far better than having no Norton at all!!!!!! It would be very useful if Norton continued to work for a short period after the subsciption runs out to give me a chance to return home to sort it out. There must be other circumstances where this would apply.

Whatever people say about the "rules of the game" what choice other than to go elsewhere do we have when the program says choose "I agree to the terms and conditions" or "I do not agree to the terms and conditions" does the programs just continue to load if you say no, of course it does not, we have no option other than to agree to whatever the software supplier feels they want to include in the terms and conditions. In the UK I think they call that Hobson Choice.

Michael

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Michael, I sympathize with your father's (and yours) situation.  But do you think that his having a security suite on his computer that is NOT getting its updates is providing security?  In all fairness, this deserves a yes or no answer.

If you say "yes", how do you find it so?

If you say "no", then what is the point of the argument?


As to the problem updating his subscription, you can do it from home.  You need to be neither on his computer or in his physical location.  Find the best deal, get the product key and when you're ready, read it to him over the phone.

1.  Tell him to click on the Norton icon in the bottom right of his screen and open the Norton screen.

2.  Tell him to click on the Express Renewal link on the bottom right of this screen.

3.  He will have a space to enter the Activation Code.  Read it to him and let him enter it.

4.  There will be an arrow to click.  Tell him to click.

That's it.  Done.

Or:

Renew for him on line.  Since you're managing his computer for him, you'll have his email address and password.  That's all it takes.  No effort on his part.  And subscription renewals are added to the end of his time, so you won't lose any days.


As for his getting the latest version.  If he doesn't already have NIS2010, that can be initiated by a single link NIS2010.  Visit the link yourself and see what is involved.  There is no need to uninstall/reninstall.  I haven't done that for my own family or any of my clients.  Clink the link and follow the prompts (which are press "ok" a few times) and be very patient.

OR

If you feel you have to be there, then go there to install the new product ... at your convenience, since it has nothing to do with renewal whatsoever.  You can install NIS2010 before or after the product has been renewed.  There is absolutely no connection between the two.  Re-install for him as I explained, then visit at Christmas and install the update.

OR

If you need other alternatives, I can probably think of them.  This is the best delivery process of updates and handling of customers I have seen in twenty years!


So, good luck to your father and to you.
mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Just in case you think I was being facetious, this method of long distance renewal is how I maintain all my clients' accounts.  I haven't gone to a client's home or office to renew a subscription in two years!

And, yes, I do walk them through upgrades by telephone -- without a complaint yet.  If I happen to be there for other reasons, then of course I'll install the upgrade; but that happens rarely.

Message Edited by mijcar on 12-01-2009 09:00 AM
mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

If Symantec are such a caring company then why have they only just started doing this?

Here's another analogy for you to play with, people are shooting at you, which would you rather have between you and them, a wall that is 95% complete or no wall at all?

If I hadn't already bought a copy of NIS2010 I might have been tempted to just go thru the renewal process when the ransom screen appeared last night and my bank account would be £21 lighter as a result.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

To mijcar

Thank you for your post, I would take a little more interest in it if you had read my posts before giving advice.

So what you are saying is that if you miss one update from Norton the program is useless ? If that was the case what is the use of having it in the first place ! Of course it is not and using the program which is a little out of date is far superior to having no program at all. I have installed other antimaleware programs on his laptop which will help in the short term.

I certainly do not know nor wish to know the passwords my father uses.

Where I am staying i have to use a broadband dongle which even at the best of times is almost like using dial up when I first used the internet. My father is always present when I look after his laptop partly for his security and partly so that he can learn a few new tricks.

There are probably a number of ways around the situation, however, our preference is to do it our way which is not out of the ordinary and as a very loyal Norton customer, I have never used anything but Norton in one form or other for anti-virus protection, through thick and thin for Norton, and used other of their programs it would be nice to think that this goodwill would be reciprocated at times.

Michael

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


michaelsalis wrote:

To mijcar

Thank you for your post, I would take a little more interest in it if you had read my posts before giving advice.

So what you are saying is that if you miss one update from Norton the program is useless ? If that was the case what is the use of having it in the first place ! Of course it is not and using the program which is a little out of date is far superior to having no program at all. I have installed other antimaleware programs on his laptop which will help in the short term.

I certainly do not know nor wish to know the passwords my father uses.

Where I am staying i have to use a broadband dongle which even at the best of times is almost like using dial up when I first used the internet. My father is always present when I look after his laptop partly for his security and partly so that he can learn a few new tricks.

There are probably a number of ways around the situation, however, our preference is to do it our way which is not out of the ordinary and as a very loyal Norton customer, I have never used anything but Norton in one form or other for anti-virus protection, through thick and thin for Norton, and used other of their programs it would be nice to think that this goodwill would be reciprocated at times.

Michael


As one Michael to another, I must say it is as though we are using two different languages that accidentally have the same words, but have different meaning.

I never said, "if you miss one update from Norton the program is useless."  Honestly, I didn't, not even close to that.  I don't even know what that means.  I did say that if you miss a lot of updates (and Symantec delivers over 50 a day), you open a huge window to the worst kinds of malware (the old ones are relatively cleanable, but the new ones are just that -- new and still unexamined in terms of the extent to which they could do damage -- just because signatures are available is no reason to believe that there are good ways to remove them).  Anyone who goes an entire week without updating his security software and who is still using the internet extensively is asking for the worst kind of damage.  Someone came up with the metaphor of it's better having a 95% shield than known at all.  That's a well-duh, of course.  But the 95% protects against the old stuff which is more like b-b's and .22 ammo; and the 5% is against the new stuff which is like dum-dums and flame-throwers.

Using that 95% shield is misleading and suggests that the user is safer than he or she really is.  Symantec has learned a truth over time that old teachers like myself learned a long time ago:  No one listens to words.  Symantec's choice was whether or not to leave a program in place that provided a false sense of security and seems to encourage the user to do nothing about the risk; or to pull the rug out and say "I'm serious" so get your protection now.

And what you suggest in regard to your Dad makes the point.  If with a 30 day notice, he still has taken the five minutes to get a new activation code or else to extend his subscription, then he is not going to pay attention to any verbal warning at all.  But he will pay attention when his security program refuses to open.

I am bothered by what appears to be your desire to misinterpret my suggestions.  I gave you easy ways that you could be of assistance to your dad without being there and you create entirely new scenarios that miss the point.

I've tried to be helpful enough.  I'm tired, have a sick child, and a 95 year old mother to worry about.  You don't get it, fine.  You want to be angry and misinterpret my attempts to get through, fine.  There are people who actually want our help.

Frankly, I have no clue why you are here.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Okay, one last try.

I'm sure you're not going to change your stance, but perhaps I can at least convince you that Symantec is not just out to pick your pocket.

I just got back from picking my kids up at school and I thought of another way to explain this.

On the face of it, there are three situations:

a = having a working and fully up-to-date security suite

b = having a working but no longer up-to-date security suite

c = having no working security suite at all.

Your contention is that a is better than b; and that b is better than c.

You think that Symantec is engaged in some Wonderland dislogic in which it is claiming that c is better than a.

On the model above, you would be right and the rest of us would be loonies.  Because in a static situation, a is always better than b and b is always better than a.

But this is not a static situation and Symantec is using a different model.

a-now = having a working and fully up-to-date security suite now

b-now = having a working but no longer up-to-date security suite now

c-now = having no working security suite at all now

a-tomorrow = having a working and fully up-to-date security suite tomorrow

b-tomorrow = having a working but no longer up-to-date security suite tomorrow

c-tomorrow = having no working security suite at all tomorrow

Now Symantec's logic must go something like this:

Deduction 1:  Someone who has already bought a security suite has indicated by that purchase that he (or she) is concerned at least somewhat about the state of security on his computer.

Deduction 2:  But experience has shown that most people believe the presence of a security suite without updates is virtually as good as the presence of a security suite with updates.

This changes a static situation into a dynamic one.  Based on average behavior (Deduction 2), Symantec believes that overwhelmingly,

b-now ==> b-tomorrow.

They also believe based on Deduction 1,

c-now ==> a-tomorrow.

So while b-now is better than c-now, to Symantec b-now will lead to b-tomorrow while c-now will lead to a-tomorrow, and no one disagrees that a-tomorrow is better than b-tomorrow.

So, your position, which is inarguable, is that b-now is better than c-now.

And Symantec's stance, which is equally inarguable, is that a-tomorrow is better than b-tomorrow and c-tomorrow.

What is arguable is the gap between today and tomorrow.  The longer the gap, the longer one misses that a-tomorrow and exposes themselves to the risk inbetween.  And tomorrow becomes two days becomes three days becomes pretty soon becomes ... ?

What is also arguable is whether the needs of a large group of people who fall in the b-today ==> b-tomorrow outweighs the small group of people who fall in the b-today ==> a-pretty soon?

Symantec's contention is that the needs of the larger group who are missing the point outweighs the needs of the smaller group who deliberately expose themselves to risk.

That's a judgment call.  You pick one side of that; Symantec the other.

If nothing else, you can recognize and respect the logic behind it; and if you don't like it -- and this is not sarcasm -- McAfee will let you "own" a security suite for the length of two new versions, without ever making you get updates to it after your update license expires.  In other words, you can have a "working" McAfee that has no up-do-date virus signatures for up to two years, if that's what you want.

Both companies will have their adherents.  I will bear you no ill-will if you switch to McAfee and we will welcome anyone who (like myself) comes to Symantec from McAfee.

Edit:  Replacing commas that were mislaid somewhere.  OMG, how could I have done that?!

Message Edited by mijcar on 12-01-2009 03:33 PM
mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos3

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

hi everyone,

i was waiting for a little while before jumping in this thread. i kind of thought that people would think the way that i do about this so it wouldn't get this heated. let me share with you my views on it.

NIS and NAV are software as a service. when you think about it that way, its a service more than a subscription really. i subscribe to cable tv. when my cable tv expires, the service is shut off. i still have the cable box, but it doesn't do anything - just takes up space on my tv. i can't get any channels. same thing with the power to my house. when it expires, they turn off the power.

on my mynortonaccount.com i see the expireations date of my nortons. i expect that my service will be turned off if i don't renew by that day. i don't really think about it being bad on my part of the nortons part. its what i knew when i bought it. i bought a 1 year subscription and they gave me 365 (actually I think 366) days of service.

lots of antivirus companies do this now. its not for every software thats for sure. just softwares where they have to constantly keep you up to date for it to work, like antivirus softwares. im okay with the service. i consider it another utilitiy that i have to pay for, but its necessary in my book.

just my opinion, but hopefully that'll help people see it this way too.

----"you better watch out for the whiplash!! thank you for taking the time to read my signature lol! ;]" -- Kaiser Wilhelm
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Love the escalation, "I'l trump your 85 year old Dad with my 95 year old Mum".

What exactly does the operator ==> mean?

It's all a big con to make Symantec more money by scaring people into pushing the "Renew now" button. What will it be next year? Will we have to submit to auto-renewal before we're allowed to use the software? "Gimme your credit card details now!" Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "protection racket".

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

The difference between our positions is not what is best for us.  It is who gets to decide that.

I thought I was buying a piece of software.  Turns out - according to mijcar - I was really turning the configuration of my computer over to Symantec, who will take the software back when they deem it necessary for my own good (and/or to make money).  Again, no other software does this. And any responsibility Symantec may feel for an underprotected computer could be discharged less drastically by, for example, more explicit warning screens.

Back in the day, software was not copy protected.  Various forms of copy protection gave way to activation keys.  Now Symantec is pushing the envelope one step further in imposing a time limit not on updates for the software, but on the actual posession of the software itself.

There are arguments why doing this in the specific case of NIS may be best for the user. And certainly Symantec's software has evolved in the direction of being more and more the computer's nanny.  But if Symantec gets away with this, then other software publishers will not be far behind.  I look forward sadly to the day that my Quicken or Photoshop tells me it's going on strike until I negotiate a new contract.

Me personally, I don't need a nanny in my computer.  I need an antivirus, anti-malware program.  Those who are hired by clients to be their computer's nanny may find it advantageous to have Symantec backing them up.  I don't disrespect people in that situation for having a view opposite to mine.  But that view places expediency above what for me is a basic question of ethics.

I think that any program that turns itself completely off after a year is wrong.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Symantec is really not doing anything different than a lot of software authors are now doing. Most programs that I use will give you free updates for the version you have registered (i.e. 3.xx) and once they release version 4, they charge you again using an upgrade fee. Sure, you can continue to use the older version, but like someone already said, it may not work on the newest version of your OS. If you want the new features and what-not, you have to pay the upgrade fee. I will admit that I think Symantec's upgrade/subscription fees are a little high, but there are ways around that. I just purchased a 2 year 3 PC version of NIS 2010 off of eBay for 12.99 delivered. The code has been entered and VERIFIED and now I am all set for another 2 years. I think what is upsetting everyone is that Symantec changed how they were doing things and basically left a few people annoyed in the way they did it.
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Symantec is really not doing anything different than a lot of software authors are now doing. Most programs that I use will give you free updates for the version you have registered (i.e. 3.xx) and once they release version 4, they charge you again using an upgrade fee. Sure, you can continue to use the older version, but like someone already said, it may not work on the newest version of your OS.

Actually Symantec is doing just the opposite.  During your year, they will even let you upgrade from NIS 2009 to 2010.  However at the end of the year, the software stops working.  Period.

I just purchased a 2 year 3 PC version of NIS 2010 off of eBay for 12.99 delivered.

No kidding?  I'm off to eBay.  Thanks.

I still think Symantec is doing an evil thing.  But not as evil as the malware it's keeping off my PC.

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Do be careful bilofsky.  We have already had one user who did the same thing only to find that the software had been used and was registered to someone else's account. 
Under certain circumstances profanity provides relief denied even to prayer.Mark Twain
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Ah, well.  It sounded too good to be true.

Thanks.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


delphinium wrote:
Do be careful bilofsky.  We have already had one user who did the same thing only to find that the software had been used and was registered to someone else's account. 

I paid with PayPal so I was insured. If it had been bogus, I would have been re-imbursed by PayPal. (Plus, knowing the seller helps.) I have been using eBay for years and I haven't had any problems whatsoever with all the new checks eBay has in place for sellers now. But then, I know what to avoid.

bilofsky, if you can't find it for what I paid for it, let me know and I will get you ion touch with the guy I got it from.
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

CalvinOU812 wrote:


I've been a loyal Norton user since the early 90's. Until now, I personally hadn't had any major problems with Norton. That had enabled me to convince a lot of people over the years to switch to Norton; even disgruntled users. (I always emphasized the importance of disabling Norton before installing any new trusted software and the importance of definitions updates.)
 
Before, when the Norton subscription expired, only the definitions stopped updating. Everything else kept working. This gave me some leeway to update Norton. I could update it when it was convenient to me: before or a little while after it expired.

Now, instead of just the definition updates ending after the subscription expires, all of the Norton protection shuts down. At first I thought they just made it appear that way to scare people to purchase the renewal faster. But after looking at it and from what I've read about it, the protection does end.
 
It appears that Symantec wants everyone to purchase their renewal or even set up their auto-renewal. I purchase the latest version of Norton every year. This is why I don't purchase their renewal. Now, since Norton shuts down after the subscription expires, I have to purchase and receive the new version, plus I have to schedule time to uninstall the old Norton and install the new Norton before the subscription expires. This means I will no longer get my full year's subscription. This may sound petty of me, but I use computers for my business. This also means if I forget to purchase and install the new version on one of my computers before the subscription expires, just once, I could catch a virus (or something) and loose valuable irreplaceable information. That's too risky for me. 

Bilofsky wrote: 

I thought I was buying a piece of software.  Turns out - according to mijcar - I was really turning the configuration of my computer over to Symantec, who will take the software back when they deem it necessary for my own good (and/or to make money).  Again, no other software does this. And any responsibility Symantec may feel for an underprotected computer could be discharged less drastically by, for example, more explicit warning screens.

Me personally, I don't need a nanny in my computer.  I need an antivirus, anti-malware program.  Those who are hired by clients to be their computer's nanny may find it advantageous to have Symantec backing them up.  I don't disrespect people in that situation for having a view opposite to mine.  But that view places expediency above what for me is a basic question of ethics.

I think that any program that turns itself completely off after a year is wrong. 

Calvin & Bilofsky, I agree. I'm a long time Norton user. Last month when I received renewal reminders, the reminders did not say the product would stop functioning when my subscription expired. Symantec changed the meaning of the annual subscription from what it had been in prior years and did not inform me.

Some comments in this thread about 'this is the way the software industry is going' sound similar to the excuse that "Our product isn't any worse than most of our competition".

I hope Symantec listens to these concerns.

Kudos1

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

That is very thoughtful of you Boofo.  I also use Ebay, but I would not be comfortable buying software from an unknown buyer.
Under certain circumstances profanity provides relief denied even to prayer.Mark Twain
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


delphinium wrote:
That is very thoughtful of you Boofo.  I also use Ebay, but I would not be comfortable buying software from an unknown buyer.

I totally understand your position. But knowing the seller helps as well as what to avoid. I've been with them too long, I guess. And as long as you use PayPal, you are covered for any losses. Maybe I've been lucky, but I do a lot of buying there and have learned what to watch out for. Guess that is telling my age, huh?
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Hi

I think the person who bought a Norton product off of eBay didn't actually buy a boxed version.  I think he just bought a key from eBay which turned out to be a used key already. I think if you buy it from a reliable seller who has a good reputation with eBay and it says that it is new and unused and in a sealed package, I think it may be ok.  If it says used, then forget it.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view.
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Mijcar

I don't see where you get the idea that I have said Symantec/Norton are evil or money grabbing or anything else others have said about the situation. You are mixing posts made by others and attributing them to me. All I have said is that it would be good to have a little leeway before shutting down.

As for protection I use programs, amongst others, such as PC Tools Threatfire on my fathers laptop and Iobit Security 360 on mine, both highly recommended by various reviewers. you only have to look at the ,000's of posts here that even a fully upto date Norton does not give total protection nor would I expect it to.

Michael

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

My objection to Symantics re-subscription method, is if you respond early to the pleas for re-upping your sub...you pay again for that period of time before your old sub actually expires....and the same thing happens the following year.

They could just as easily treat it like a yearly magazine sub which no matter how early yopu pay adds the amount of time paid for onto the END of your current sub.

dirty cheats.

[edit: Please keep post content clean per the Participation Guidelines and Terms of Service.]

Message Edited by shannons on 12-04-2009 07:50 PM
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


goatgirl wrote:

They could just as easily treat it like a yearly magazine sub which no matter how early yopu pay adds the amount of time paid for onto the END of your current sub.



I agree. That is how most subscription places do it actually.
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


goatgirl wrote:

My objection to Symantics re-subscription method, is if you respond early to the pleas for re-upping your sub...you pay again for that period of time before your old sub actually expires....and the same thing happens the following year.

They could just as easily treat it like a yearly magazine sub which no matter how early yopu pay adds the amount of time paid for onto the END of your current sub.

dirty cheats.


That I can agree on.  Plus, why does Symatec charge the same amount for renewals as buying a new product!!!  Maybe that's why they offer "free upgrades"   It is because the amount of a renewal is the same as a new product!!!

 

Lower the renewal fee to about £28 or £30 not £44.

Message Edited by Wikipedian on 12-05-2009 03:23 AM[edit: Fixed posting error.]Message Edited by shannons on 12-04-2009 07:52 PM
“ We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard ”--President John F. Kennedy
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


goatgirl wrote:

My objection to Symantics re-subscription method, is if you respond early to the pleas for re-upping your sub...you pay again for that period of time before your old sub actually expires....and the same thing happens the following year.


In the past, I put up with the nag messages for the 30 days and then installed the new version I had bought on special with Turbo Tax.

What worked better this time around was doing the extension, then going to Norton online chat.  The support tech extended my subscription by the number of days I'd lost.  If enough people do that, maybe they'll reconsider their policy.  (Or else stop accommodating the requests.)

I am gleefully looking forward to two years and two months before the next Norton nag.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

Hi

I got the nag the first day when I had 30 days left of my sub.  I'm down to 28 days now and I haven't seen a nag since the first day. I haven't renewed my sub yet, but am surprised I haven't seen the nag again.... So far I am missing it for 2 days now.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view.
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

My issue with the "hostage renewal" method is that they charge full price for the renewal. But most stores offer rebates that are sometimes upto 50% off if not even more sometimes. I just "renewed" for only $20 through a staples promotion instead of $60 because of a $40 rebate. And if I could just find my old CD, I'd even get another $20 rebate making it free!

I don't expect renewals for free. But I don't like being "forced" into a full price renewal either. And with the built in full price renewal, you don't ever have anything to use for possible future rebates on upgrading yet again.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires

floplot - I got nagged at 30 days - 15 days and from 10 - 9 - 8 -7 where I am now... so it accelerated as you get closer to 0.

I have an unopened NAV 2007 store bought package that I have not used yet - used NAV 2009 product key last year .

Am running NAV2010 now and hope that the 2007 unused product key will work???

Ken

Message Edited by KLR on 12-07-2009 11:53 PM
Kudos0

Re: Norton Shuts Down After Subscription Expires


KLR wrote:

floplot - I got nagged at 30 days - 15 days and from 10 - 9 - 8 -7 where I am now... so it accelerated as you get closer to 0.

I have an unopened NAV 2007 store bought package that I have not used yet - used NAV 2009 product key last year .

Am running NAV2010 now and hope that the 2007 unused product key will work???

Ken

Message Edited by KLR on 12-07-2009 11:53 PM

It should, but please let us know.   We'll be very interested.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware

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