topic Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes??? in Norton Internet Security / Norton AntiVirus

NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

Rednaxin — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:03:05 GMT

Hello. I recently installed Norton Internet Security 2012 on my laptop. However about 1 week later I went to run a scan by Malwarebytes, which was already installed on the computer before NIS, and it wasn't there. It had completely vanished. It was only the free version of Malwarebytes. There was no trace of it.

I wondered where it had gotten to. I am worried that there may be something wrong with my computer and installed programs are just disappearing into thin air. However I wondered if NIS 2012 had something to do with it. Is it normal for NIS to uninstall Malwarebytes and other such programs when it is installed? The reason I ask is because I've heard that Norton automatically uninstalls Spybot Search & Destroy also. Norton never warned me during installation that it was uninstalling anything.

I'm a little worried, that's all. I hope my computer is working normally.

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

Bombastus — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:40:27 GMT

It does uninstall MBAM. I don't know why it would uninstall MBAM Free, but it does not seem to be able to differentiate between MBAM Free and MBAM Pro. MBAM Free is compatible with NIS, though, so you can just reinstall it again now, and they will work fine together.

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

huwyngr — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:53:50 GMT

I have had MBAM Free installed for ages on Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit with NIS from way back and now on NIS 2012 19.5.0.145 and it's still there today -- in fact when I opened it it told me it had not been updated for 50 days and did I want to update.

That has installed a new version and new defs ....

So it definitely is not normal for MBAM to be uninstalled by NIS.

What version of Windows do you have installed? What security application did you have installed on your laptop before you installed NIS 2012? How did you remove it?

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

Topopurim47 — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:57:10 GMT

are you sure about this? i know the mbam product update before this last one failed to put the desktop icon on some systems but mbam was still in start menu and working. i'm still using nis2011. i don't think norton would uninstall another av without asking but i would like to know before upgrading. thanks

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

huwyngr — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:44:02 GMT

Topopurim47 wrote:
are you sure about this? i know the mbam product update before this last one failed to put the desktop icon on some systems but mbam was still in start menu and working. i'm still using nis2011. i don't think norton would uninstall another av without asking but i would like to know before upgrading. thanks

The update I just mentioned put the desktop icon back on -- thee are option boxes for desktop and quick launch icons and the desktop one only was prechecked but that might be inherited from the previous installation.

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

lmacri — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:15:32 GMT

Rednaxin wrote:

Hello. I recently installed Norton Internet Security 2012 on my laptop. However about 1 week later I went to run a scan by Malwarebytes, which was already installed on the computer before NIS, and it wasn't there. It had completely vanished. It was only the free version of Malwarebytes. There was no trace of it.

Hi Rednaxin:

When you say that MBAM completely vanished, did you look in the C:\Program Files\Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware folder for mbam.exe and other MBAM files? Malwarebytes recently released MBAM v. 1.60.1 on January 31, 2012, and it's possible that a recent update to v. 1.60.x removed the MBAM shortcuts off your Windows desktop and Start menu as Topopurim47 and huwyngr suggested in previous posts.

Also, have you recently performed a system restore? If you rolled your system back to a previous point in time (i.e., to a date prior to your most recent install or update of MBAM) this might have corrupted your MBAM installation.

I haven't upgraded to NIS 2012 yet, but I've had both NIS and MBAM PRO (real-time protection disabled) installed on my computer since April 2009 and I've never had a Norton product installation or upgrade uninstall MBAM (or any other software program, for that matter). I also searched the Malwarebytes forum here and couldn't find any reports of MBAM being uninstalled by another software program.

My current understanding is that the 2012 Norton installation wizard will disable the real-time protection of Microsoft security software like Vista's Windows Defender (and possibly other third-party antivirus programs like McAfee AntiVirus, but I'm not sure about that), but this is done deliberately because running multiple security programs in real-time protection mode can actually decrease the security of your system (see bc596's thread here titled Malwarebytes). If you use NIS or N360, which include the Norton Smart Firewall, these Norton products will also disable other firewalls running on your system, but this is also done to improve system security.

MBAM is a malware scanner and not a full antivirus program (see David Lipman's excellent post here titled MBAM 1.60 Didn't Catch a Known Test .Zip File in the MBAM user forum for further details) so I'm not even sure that the real-time protection in the PRO version of MBAM would be disabled by an install or upgrade of a 2012 Norton product. The NIS 2012 upgrade doesn't seem to have affected huwyngr's free MBAM installation (see message # 3) so I'm not sure why Bombastus ran into problems (see message # 2).
------------------
Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit SP2 * NIS 2011 v. 18.7.0.13 * IE 9.0 * Firefox 10.0.2 * MBAM 1.60.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

dickevans — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:04:40 GMT

huwyngr wrote:
Topopurim47 wrote:
are you sure about this? i know the mbam product update before this last one failed to put the desktop icon on some systems but mbam was still in start menu and working. i'm still using nis2011. i don't think norton would uninstall another av without asking but i would like to know before upgrading. thanks

The update I just mentioned put the desktop icon back on -- thee are option boxes for desktop and quick launch icons and the desktop one only was prechecked but that might be inherited from the previous installation.

I can confirm Hugh's experience. I've got both on my primary system and they live and play well together. If memory serves both programs have been updaged/upgraded since the initial install of both and they are still alive and well living on C:/ drive

Hope this helps

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

floplot — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 08:19:08 GMT

Hello

I have the free version of Malwarebytes and had it before I installed NIS 2012 and have had no problem..

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

bleeper24 — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:50:25 GMT

Hi all

It seems the roll out of the new MBAM v.1.60 has caused mixed results amongst users recently !

At first running of the fresh install of MBAM free ...I had no sign of any interference from NIS2012 in the way of "deletion " with respect to removal of just the desktop icon ...or even the more drastic removal of the program from its' location in Program Files etc:

However...I had something that I never have experienced before with MBAM ....and that is the fact that the "Right click " context menu which allows users to select individual files via the " Scan with Malwarebytes " had started misbehaving !

After initial install ...it worked fine on my primary machine for a while , but after a "Cold reboot " ....the option to scan via the context menu was still appearing in the "drop down menu " but was totally inoperative !

A reinstall will fix the problem ....but on subsequent reboots ...the individual file scan option is disabled totally ! I am awaiting feedback from MBAM on this after sending a query as to wether this is a " known issue "?

The new "Chameleon " technology that MBAM has introduced may or may not have something to do with these varied issues?

A recent report from a "Betanews" article stated

[QUOTE] ......The new Chameleon technology masks MBAM’s presence when launched, thus helping it bypass attempts by malware to stop it running. Malwarebytes also promises improvements to the malware detection and removal engine, including the Delete On Reboot component for those files that can’t be removed normally.[END QUOTE]

If the processes that this new "Chamelion " technology runs are interpreted by programs such as Norton products who use methods of detecting possible conflicting processes as being alien......then it could be possible that this may account for the varied issues we are seeing .

There can often be some strange "quirks " that appear that have different effects on users machines running varied software configurations etc;

As soon as I hear from MBAM , I will post their response to my query and pass it on :smileywink:

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

Krusty13 — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:04:08 GMT

Thanks Bleep (Ed),

I am surprised by all of this. Yes, I have had N360 (both 5 & 6) installed prior to installing the FREE version of Malwarebytes Anti-Malware at different times, but I have never experienced any conflicts, false positives or other issues

I would love to have an official statement from Symantec regarding the same.

Thanks, Dave.

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

lmacri — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:58:02 GMT

Hi Everyone:

Just FYI, MBAM forum administrator AdvancedSetup pinned a post here at the top of the MBAM general forum on January 2, 2012 titled Possible Updating Issues. There are known issues with MBAM v. 1.60.x and the ZoneAlarm (free version only) and Privacy Firewall (plus a previous problem with Avast! AntiVirus that has already been fixed by Avast Software), but other users still having issues with v. 1.60.x are being asked to run the MBAM clean-up utility , re-install the latest MBAM v. 1.60.1, and then add scan exclusions for MBAM executables in their antivirus and firewall applications.

Here is a sample of scan exclusions that Malwarebytes recommends for 32-bit Windows for Norton products (see Section J of the MBAM FAQ) - there is also a separate list in that FAQ for 64-bit Windows users. I've never had to add these MBAM scan exclusions to my NIS 2011 AntiVirus and SONAR exclusions in order to get my MBAM PRO to run properly alongside NIS but they may help some other users:

C:\Program Files\Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware\mbam.exe
C:\Program Files\Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware\mbamgui.exe
C:\Program Files\Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware\mbamservice.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\mbam.sys
C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\mbamswissarmy.sys

If the clean re-install of MBAM and addition of scan exclusions in your Norton settings doesn't solve the problem, further instructions are provided in AdvancedSetup's post.

--------------

Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit SP2 * NIS 2011 v. 18.7.0.13 * IE 9.0 * Firefox 10.0.1 * MBAM 1.60.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

bleeper24 — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:03:00 GMT

Thanks Imacri for all the additional info ....Much appreciated for your taking the time :smileywink:!

I tried a fresh install of the new MBAM after the release of the update .....and then I also used the "MBAM Clean up " utility which is mentioned in the steps you have kindly outlined in your post.too !

I tried this after the new Chamelion engine was included in the new update release .....and things did normalise after the carrying out of the thorough clean up steps I took !

In my particular case though ...the "Individual file scan " from the context menu options is still troublesome .It hasn't lowered my trust level or faith in MBAM'S efficiency ....and all "Quick " and "Full " scans run perfectly well.......but I'm still awaiting MBAM tech to advise on their " take " on the issue regarding the "right click " scanning of individual files or folders etc :

I'll post any responses as and when MBAM contact me .

Thanks ..........Ed

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

huwyngr — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 21:26:12 GMT

My MBAM Free is 1.60.1.1000 and was installed yesterday ....

Still here today ....

Re: NIS 2012 uninstalls Malwarebytes???

PhoneMan — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 22:10:51 GMT

I am running MBAM 1.60.1.1000 Pro along with NIS 2012 with no problems and I have not had to use any exclusions although NIS 2012 does show that it is blocking MBAM from accessing the NIS 2012 files as it should. I also tried the Chameleon feature and it ran great. It opens a Cmd window and runs a script.

Jim

Re: NIS 2012 installs Malwarebytes???

EltonNoway — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:04:45 GMT

Yep... Same here... What the heck!!! I'm sure Symantec would not be happy if they found out Malwarebytes was installing Norton products.

Anyway... Two days ago I paid for and installed the latest Malwarebytes Pro (1.60.1.1) with lifetime license. It installed fine with no errors or problems. I've rebooted my system at least a dozen times since the install.

This afternoon I downloaded and installed Norton Internet Security 2012... It installed just fine, no errors or problems but on reboot I noticed Malwarebytes was missing from the taskbar. When I attempt to launch it... Malwarebytes reports files are missing and I needs to be installed and and reinstalled. I sent an email to the Malwarebytes folks to let them know of the problem with Norton.

I only recently returned to Norton after 5 years of staying away. I was a loyal user of Norton Antivirus for many years until it got so bloated and turned into a resource hog that I had to find alternative software. Recent reviews have indicated Norton INternet Security was streamlined, fast and had minimal impact so I decided to give them a try again. I'm already beginning to regret my decision.

System Specs:

Intel i7 2600k Quad-core 3.4GHz, 8M Cache

16GB Memory - G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series (4 x 4GB)

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

Re: NIS 2012 installs Malwarebytes???

huwyngr — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 02:41:09 GMT

Elton,

I suspect that you are now running into what some people have said for a long time -- that installing two active security programs that can run at the same time can lead to problems from interference. Others have maintained it doesn't happen with MWB Pro but now it seems that it does.

Given the way that security applications run these days in protecting themselves and system files from being touched by "outsiders" then I would expect them to try to stop each other!

I value and use MWB Free but I see no reason to have it running interactively as the Pro version does while at the same time using Norton that I also trust.

Re: NIS 2012 installs Malwarebytes???

EltonNoway — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 05:43:15 GMT

Hugh,

I can appreciate your explanation and will be the first to acknowledge the known security conflicts between similar applications. No argument here.

However, many independent companies like AV-Comparatives run extensive testing one Antivirus and Malware programs and identify the better performers from year to year. A security program that gets high scores this year may actually be one of next years worst performers. I research every year before renewing any security application. Unfortunately, as good as Norton IS 2012 may be, or Malwarebytes for that matter... at this time there is "no" single application or program that can protect you 100% of the time under all circumstances. Most all experts agree on the approach of having "multiple" security protection applications as the best line of defense. They warn of conflicts and can usually recommend which applications play well together. At the time of my research I found no known problems affiliated with the running of Norton and Malwarebytes together.

Consider your suggestion that I run Norton alone as my only form of protection. Would I disable my Fierwall because I was confident Norton and or Malwarebytes would be the only protection I need? No way. Would I eliminate my hardware router trusting that a static IP address is safe because I was running Norton? . No... sorry.

The good news... I'm now up and running with both applications. I first used the Malwarebtes clean up utility, followed by Nortons uninstall utility. After checking that all traces and registry entries for both programs had been removed. I download the latest version of both Malwarebytes and Norton Internet Security 2012. I then did clean install of Malwarebytes followed by a shutdown and reboot, followed by a clean install of of NIS 2012 then a shutdown and reboot. I'm happy to report the second install of Norton did not remove Malwarebytes. All indications (for right now) is both applications are running just fine together... along with my 3rd party firewall. :smileyhappy:

Re: NIS 2012 installs Malwarebytes???

SendOfJive — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:34:20 GMT

EltonNoway wrote:
Most all experts agree on the approach of having "multiple" security protection applications as the best line of defense. They warn of conflicts and can usually recommend which applications play well together. At the time of my research I found no known problems affiliated with the running of Norton and Malwarebytes together.

Consider your suggestion that I run Norton alone as my only form of protection. Would I disable my Fierwall because I was confident Norton and or Malwarebytes would be the only protection I need? No way. Would I eliminate my hardware router trusting that a static IP address is safe because I was running Norton? . No... sorry.

Most experts do not recommend running multiple realtime security applications together. They would all perform the same operation on the same file at the same time, every time a file is accessed on your system. This is not only a waste of resources, but will also adversely affect system performance and lessen your protection. The relationship of two realtime security programs is not complementary - each will interfere with the other. The experts generally recommend "layered security" which means using several different types of protection, such as the Firewall and router example you cite, or using on-demand scanners. Yes you can have several programs, but no two should be doing the same function at the same time. You wouldn't run two software firewalls on one machine, would you?

Re: NIS 2012 installs Malwarebytes???

bleeper24 — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:21:14 GMT

HI all

As promised ....here is the info I received from MBAM support after sending a detailed report of the issues being faced

[QUOTE]Tom Mercado, Feb 19 09:36 pm (PST):

Hello

This is an issue we're unsure how it's caused, but a value is added as blocked in the following registry path:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Shell Extensions\Blocked

There should not be any values under that subkey, let me know what you see there if there is [END QUOTE]

I thanked MBAM for their polite and prompt response , and carried out the Registry check they advised !

I had already taken steps to attempt to resolve the problem but after a reinstall of MBAM i still had the context menu issue that prevented individual file or folder scans !

On checking my registry values ...they showed HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Shell Extensions\Approved\Cached .....no sign of the "Blocked" value at all !

So it seems that a run of the "mbam-clean " utility is a key factor in removing the registry value that can cause certain problems !

I ran " mbam-clean " and instead of just using a restart ..I did a "Cold reboot " to allow the CMOS to clear ......I ran "mbam-clean" a second time ( just to be certain ) :smileywink:...and then carried out a fresh install of the latest MBAM version !

Pleased to report that all is as it should be ...the " Right click" context menu scan now works as it should and all is back to "status quo " !

I still maintain that the Free version of MBAM is the best option to run alongside NIS .....and urge anyone following this topic to be aware that my specific problem was solely due to the "Right click " menu option being faulty on my machine ! The steps taken were to resolve that issue only! ...but the fact remains that the running of the "mbam-clean " utility is a valuable step in resolving issues with MBAM if they occur :smileywink:.

The registry is a very important part of our systems and editing the registry values is not advised for anyone who is not experienced in its' way of working ! The "mbam-clean" tool will only remove any erroneous values in a totally safe manner and is an easy tool to use .......Anyone not familiar with " regedit " should not make any changes of their own without guidance ...Be careful ..Self editing of the registry needs treating with great respect .....even by experienced users :smileywink:!

Re: NIS 2012 installs Malwarebytes???

huwyngr — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:56:11 GMT

Elton,

There are others here far more competent than I am to comment at the detailed level and I see they are contributing!

I do know about AV and other comparative tests (and how well Norton does by and large <g>) and I'm always a bit sceptical at the ranking: to be able to repeat the "attack" on numerous defenders by definition the attack has to be artificial; that some of these tests are conducted with the system isolated from the internet and so from the cloud approach that more and more applications use -- but if you don't isolate then the defenders are continually changing during the test run and between test runs on different defenders ....

I speak with some experience of research and development in high-tech (non computing) industries .....

I don't know what you regard as "my firewall" but NIS has its own firewall built in and the only other "firewall" I use is my router. I think even Microsoft disables other firewalls if you use theirs and vice versa ....

But I'm delighted at the good news -- keep it that way ... and read the interesting feedback from Bleeper24 below as well as SoJ's comment on interference.