topic Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS in Norton Internet Security / Norton AntiVirus

Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

JoeGrant — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 14:36:52 GMT

I look after 17 computers at 8 locations. They all use NIS because I insist on it: I believe it is by far the best security software available. But it has one problem that utterly exasperates me.

It happens, from time to time, one has to re-format a hard-dive, because of file corruption, or just because Windows has got in a frightful muddle, the way it usually does after 3 or 4 years intensive use. So, one backs-up all the data, uninstalls all the software, reformats the hard drive and reinstalls everything. A tedious 8 to10 hour job.

But when it comes to re-installing Norton Internet Security, one hits a problem. The activation count on the Norton account is NOT decremented when NIS is uninsalled. So, on re-install, one gets the message "activation count exceeded". So one has to contact Customer Support, by Chat or Telephone, to get the activation count reset. Sounds easy, doesn't it?

But it definitely is not easy, in my experience. It just can't be done via Chat: they simply can not understand what you are talking about, and keep telling you just to download from www.norton.com/nis12 . By telephone, you meet the same problem, and end up asking to be passed to a supervisor, which usually means waiting for a call back: total process time two hours, on the last two occasions.

I think it's time that the Norton took this problem seriously. I'm sure it's annoying other people besides me. If NIS can update the activation count when it is installed, why can't it do the same when it is uninstalled ?

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

prasanna_a — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 15:57:19 GMT

Hi,

We at Norton, already have an application for you to serve this purpose which is "Norton Management". Through which your process of managing all your 17 computers is going to be very easy.

How does this work you might ask?

You must install the Norton Management application on each computer associated with your subscription. It is tied to the Norton Account associated with the first activation of your subscription.
Each computer tied to this subscription must log into http://manage.norton.com and install the Norton Management applicaiton and add that computer (device) to the account. You will need to supply your Norton Account credentials to do this.
Once each device (computer) is added to Norton Management, any computer device being managed through that account can initiate remote uninstall which then frees up the activation used by that computer for use on another computer.
Even if the computer for which you are attempting to free up an activation no longer exists or cannot be connected to the Internet any more, you can still free up the activation.
Note that it may take about 10-15 minutes or so to free up the activation if the computer which you are removing is no longer connected to the network. You need to log out and back in in order to see the number of activations increase or click the More Infolink on the right hand side of your browser. Repeat this process until you see the number of activations increase by 1.
Two extra "ccSvcHst" processes (one user and one system) will be added as noted in the Task Manager. This is in addition to the two already present as part of your Norton security software.
Please note that once you have remotely uninstalled your Norton security software from a computer or removed it via Norton Management, that computer will no longer be protected by Norton. If the computer you are removing is not connected to the internet when you remove it through Norton Management and is later connected back to the Internet, it will cease to function shortly thereafter, once it connects to the Symantec server and realizes that this installation has been removed. So be sure that you have some other security software ready to install if the old computer will remain connected to the Internet!

The following Blog thread includes more information.

http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Protection-Blog/Norton-Management/ba-p/495274

You can also refer this thread wherein our users have shared the feedback about this feature - http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Internet-Security-Norton/Norton-Management-A-Value-Add-Feature/m-p/597268#M184653

Regards,

Prasanna

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

huwyngr — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 17:11:06 GMT

Joe,

<< But it definitely is not easy, in my experience. It just can't be done via Chat: they simply can not understand what you are talking about, and keep telling you just to download from www.norton.com/nis12. By telephone, you meet the same problem, and end up asking to be passed to a supervisor, which usually means waiting for a call back: total process time two hours, on the last two occasions.

I'm sorry this is your experience but honestly we get a large number of users here with exactly the same situation and while sometimes the reinstallation of Norton does recognize the hardware etc and reinstall without notching up another activation when that is not so we refer them to the Support -- usually CHAT is quicker and easier -- and it is very rare for us to get back anything other than It was done quickly with no problems

Occasionally I have seen what you report and all I can do is quote Joe E Brown: "Nobody's Perfect" <s>

As Prasanna says there is now an App that you can call down with NIS 2012 and later called Norton Management which if you get each installation logged into will enable you to do just what you want from whereever you access the Norton Management APP.

It gives you the ability to give each PC a user friendly name so that you can identify precisely which one you are dealing with.

I'd suggest you look at it and see what you have to do to get it set up.

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

twixt — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 17:25:27 GMT

JoeGrant wrote:
I look after 17 computers at 8 locations. They all use NIS because I insist on it: I believe it is by far the best security software available. But it has one problem that utterly exasperates me.

It happens, from time to time, one has to re-format a hard-dive, because of file corruption, or just because Windows has got in a frightful muddle, the way it usually does after 3 or 4 years intensive use. So, one backs-up all the data, uninstalls all the software, reformats the hard drive and reinstalls everything. A tedious 8 to10 hour job.

But when it comes to re-installing Norton Internet Security, one hits a problem. The activation count on the Norton account is NOT decremented when NIS is uninstalled. So, on re-install, one gets the message "activation count exceeded". So one has to contact Customer Support, by Chat or Telephone, to get the activation count reset. Sounds easy, doesn't it?

But it definitely is not easy, in my experience. It just can't be done via Chat: they simply can not understand what you are talking about, and keep telling you just to download from www.norton.com/nis12 . By telephone, you meet the same problem, and end up asking to be passed to a supervisor, which usually means waiting for a call back: total process time two hours, on the last two occasions.

I think it's time that the Norton took this problem seriously. I'm sure it's annoying other people besides me. If NIS can update the activation count when it is installed, why can't it do the same when it is uninstalled ?

Hi, Joe. Some other things to know:

Note: The following is based on my experiences with Norton-specific Activation and the linkage between a Norton Account and the Product Key for that particular Activation Set. If any Symantec employees and/or Gurus who know more about this than I have mentioned wish to provide further clarification - please do. :smileyhappy:

1. NIS Activation works similarly to Windows activation. The initial activation is tied to the specific hardware on that machine - and the software signatures created in response to that hardware. As long as you are reinstalling to the same hardware - using the same product key - NIS "sees" the product as a reinstall and does not increment or decrement the install count.

2. However, a problem occurs if you have a machine which is so fouled up you are reinstalling from scratch. You will not necessarily get the same software signatures on that installation of Windows that you got when you originally installed the OS - especially if you use the opportunity presented by a complete reinstall to update the Motherboard BIOS or upgrade the Hard Disk. Because the new BIOS and/or the new Hard Disk has different hardware signature(s) - it will generate different software signature(s). NIS will pick up on this change and think the installation of NIS on this machine is a "new installation" - because the software signature for that new-and-different Hard Disk and/or different BIOS does not match the software signature for the original Hard Disk and/or BIOS that the original installation of Windows was installed on. This is not a fault of the product - this is how both Windows and NIS determine the difference between a "reinstall" and a "new install".

3. Consequent to the above, the use of Ghost (or any other software which preserves the software signature of the original machine when that installation is restored to a different Hard Disk) allows a NIS install to be "seen" as a reinstall - even though the Hardware Characteristics of that machine have changed. However, just like a Windows activation - there are limits to the hardware you can change on a particular machine before NIS thinks an install is "new" rather than a reinstall. So, loading a Ghost image with an existing install of NIS onto a machine with different hardware (such as a different motherboard with a different BIOS version and a different network card MAC address) may be seen as a "new" install - in a similar manner to Windows Product Activation.

4. Furthermore, if you have activated a NIS installation without creating a Norton Account for that installation - Symantec have no record of the rightful user of that particular Product Key. Yes, there is a record of the installation count signatures for a particular Product Key - regardless of whether you have tied that particular key to a Norton Account or not. However, that Product Key is "orphan" until it is "adopted" by the creation of a Norton Account for that particular Product Key.

Consequently, without the tie between a Product Key and a specific user for the Norton Account using that Product Key (and its attendant installation count) - first-tier Norton Support is going to have trouble getting the install count reset in any "new install" situation found in Items 1 through 3 above. As far as I am aware - this is normal policy for Symantec when it comes to "orphan" Product Keys.

Properly creating a Norton Account for each Product Key prevents all sorts of trouble when it comes to calling in to Symantec Tech Support for adjustments to "Days Remaining" in Subscription Status - as well as adjustments to Product Install Counts.

As prasanna has mentioned - Norton Management is the tool needed to work with a Norton Product Set - where you have the ability to manage activations and counteract the problems mentioned in Items 1 through 4 above. But this requires the creation of a Norton Account for each purchase of NIS - where there is a unique product key used for the initial install of that software to the first machine in the activation set for that particular product key. If you do not choose to create a Norton Account when initially installing the product on its first machine in the Activation Set - your flexibility is constrained by the circumstances mentioned above.

Note: When creating a Norton Account for a particular Product Key - it does not matter which machine is used to create the Norton Account. For example, with a 3-activation NIS Product Key - creating the account on the second or third install doesn't change a thing as far as the Symantec Activation Database is concerned. All that happens when a Norton Account is created is a linkage - based on the Product Key for that Activation Set - between the Activation Database and the Product Owner Database. This linkage occurs automatically the first time a Norton Account is created using that particular Product Key.

Hope this helps your understanding.

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

ferenzzz — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 20:17:11 GMT

Hi, Joe. Some other things to know:

Note: The following is based on my experiences with Norton-specific Activation and the linkage between a Norton Account and the Product Key for that particular Activation Set. If any Symantec employees and/or Gurus who know more about this than I have mentioned wish to provide further clarification - please do. :smileyhappy:

1. NIS Activation works similarly to Windows activation. The initial activation is tied to the specific hardware on that machine - and the software signatures created in response to that hardware. As long as you are reinstalling to the same hardware - using the same product key - NIS "sees" the product as a reinstall and does not increment or decrement the install count.

2. However, a problem occurs if you have a machine which is so fouled up you are reinstalling from scratch. You will not necessarily get the same software signatures on that installation of Windows that you got when you originally installed the OS - especially if you use the opportunity presented by a complete reinstall to update the Motherboard BIOS or upgrade the Hard Disk. Because the new BIOS and/or the new Hard Disk has different hardware signature(s) - it will generate different software signature(s). NIS will pick up on this change and think the installation of NIS on this machine is a "new installation" - because the software signature for that new-and-different Hard Disk and/or different BIOS does not match the software signature for the original Hard Disk and/or BIOS that the original installation of Windows was installed on. This is not a fault of the product - this is how both Windows and NIS determine the difference between a "reinstall" and a "new install".

3. Consequent to the above, the use of Ghost (or any other software which preserves the software signature of the original machine when that installation is restored to a different Hard Disk) allows a NIS install to be "seen" as a reinstall - even though the Hardware Characteristics of that machine have changed. However, just like a Windows activation - there are limits to the hardware you can change on a particular machine before NIS thinks an install is "new" rather than a reinstall. So, loading a Ghost image with an existing install of NIS onto a machine with different hardware (such as a different motherboard with a different BIOS version and a different network card MAC address) may be seen as a "new" install - in a similar manner to Windows Product Activation.

4. Furthermore, if you have activated a NIS installation without creating a Norton Account for that installation - Symantec have no record of the rightful user of that particular Product Key. Yes, there is a record of the installation count signatures for a particular Product Key - regardless of whether you have tied that particular key to a Norton Account or not. However, that Product Key is "orphan" until it is "adopted" by the creation of a Norton Account for that particular Product Key.

Consequently, without the tie between a Product Key and a specific user for the Norton Account using that Product Key (and its attendant installation count) - first-tier Norton Support is going to have trouble getting the install count reset in any "new install" situation found in Items 1 through 3 above. As far as I am aware - this is normal policy for Symantec when it comes to "orphan" Product Keys.

Properly creating a Norton Account for each Product Key prevents all sorts of trouble when it comes to calling in to Symantec Tech Support for adjustments to "Days Remaining" in Subscription Status - as well as adjustments to Product Install Counts.

As prasanna has mentioned - Norton Management is the tool needed to work with a Norton Product Set - where you have the ability to manage activations and counteract the problems mentioned in Items 1 through 4 above. But this requires the creation of a Norton Account for each purchase of NIS - where there is a unique product key used for the initial install of that software to the first machine in the activation set for that particular product key. If you do not choose to create a Norton Account when initially installing the product on its first machine in the Activation Set - your flexibility is constrained by the circumstances mentioned above.

Note: When creating a Norton Account for a particular Product Key - it does not matter which machine is used to create the Norton Account. For example, with a 3-activation NIS Product Key - creating the account on the second or third install doesn't change a thing as far as the Symantec Activation Database is concerned. All that happens when a Norton Account is created is a linkage - based on the Product Key for that Activation Set - between the Activation Database and the Product Owner Database. This linkage occurs automatically the first time a Norton Account is created using that particular Product Key.

Hope this helps your understanding.

Great piece of explaining.. kudo for you mate!! :)

I always wondered how it worked..

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

huwyngr — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 22:58:58 GMT

Ferenzz & Joe

<< 4. Furthermore, if you have activated a NIS installation without creating a Norton Account for that installation - >>

I will check this out but I am under the impression that creating a MyNortonAccount is now required and is not an option. I say this from the memory of a heated discussion here with someone who was adamant that he was not going to ....

I'll ask and see what I get back since I have been known to be wrong .....

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

JoeGrant — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:30:07 GMT

Prasanna;

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. The mechanism you describe is, I am sure, an excellent solutuion in a corporate context. But I am just a semi-retired computer consultant who gets lumbered with looking after the computers of family members and friends, as well as a couple of long term clients who can't find anyone to replace me. There are a lot of different subscriptions on different accounts invloved: and computers of both sides of the Atlantic ( thanks to pcAnywhere ).

It would be so much simpler if the Uninstall process would just connect to the appropriate account on Symantec's server ( Live Update and Subscription Renewal are able to do it ) and decrement the activation counter.

Joe

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

JoeGrant — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:36:56 GMT

Hugh,

Being Joe P Grant, I have to agree with Joe E Brown. Perhaps I've just been unlucky in the past. I'll hope it goes well next week. The trouble that when the problem crops up near the end of an 8 or 10 hour day, it's extra annoying.

I still think there must be some way for the uninstall process to decrement that activation counter, so that I don't even have to bother Customer Service.

Joe

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

JoeGrant — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:56:57 GMT

twixt , ferenzzz;

Thanks for your contributions. But they almost make my point for me. It doesn't have to be this complicated. If Uninstall would just connect to the relevant Norton account and decremented the activation counter there would be no problem.

I'm not talking about a disaster recovery situation with broken hardware. I'm talking about a routine maintenance situation, where running Uninstall is possible. It is, of course, sad that a complete re-install of Windows is routine maintenance !!

Joe

P.S. Give an old guy a break. I'd rather be sailing. I'm going to leave it here.

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

Cister — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:18:56 GMT

Hello

+ 1 with JoeGrant. Something very simple is need.....

Re: Saving an Activation when Uninstalling NIS

huwyngr — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:54:23 GMT

Joe,

Frankly, it is simple enough for people using 1 - 3 PC versions in their household and Norton Management would be simple enough once it's set up but when you describe your "empire" I don't see any way in which it could remain simple .... unless perhaps you assume dictatorship and get the enterprise version installed on every one of the 17 since I would imagine that unlike the home/small office version we deal with here it must provide for cental management of the entire system?

I don't know that but I would imagine it would have to. It brings the per seat price down too!

It would be nice if multiple reinstallations never messed up the activation system but it happens everywhere even with Windows where you can usually reinstall on identical software without having to reactivate but every now and again you get a message to contact Microsoft when you are reinstalling and entering the Windows activation key again.

Norton and other subscription programs do have to protect themselves against fraudulent installation -- I'm not suggesting for a moment that you are involved in that -- and sometimes it affects all of us adversely.

<< I still think there must be some way for the uninstall process to decrement that activation counter, >>

I'm sure there must be work on this going on in Norton since it's a waste of support time. That we can do it in Norton Management is already something for small scale users and if they can tighten up the failure rate on reinstallation I'd be surprised if they did not. But as users we have to bear in mind that we may have made changes to the hardware between the original installation of Norton and the reinstallation and if any part of that is coded into the identity of the computer, as it is for Windows I believe, then we can't be surprised if Norton thinks it is a new PC.

And if they make it easy to deactivate your installation, who do you think are going to be the first to exploit that as a loophole and who's going to complain to Norton that some malware disabled your security program .... ?