topic Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite in Norton Internet Security / Norton AntiVirus

NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

crisoco8722 — Mon, 07 May 2012 00:39:27 GMT

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Quote by Tony Weiss

Attention: Firefox 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 users
As of this posting, we will only support Firefox 10.x and above

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I think it is quite unreasonable for Norton to discontinue support so soon for the newer release versions of Firefox especially when these have not had sufficient time to settle in before release.

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Quote from Norton Safe Web
Norton Safe Web Lite is FREE to anyone

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This seems like the best alternative, but trying to install Norton Safe Web Lite 2.0.0.16 results in the message ........

You already have Norton Internet Security installed: Toolbar already installed.

Yes, the toolbar is installed but Norton have simply disabled it in Firefox 8.0.1

Norton should not install the toolbar in the first place if it is not going to be supported.

According to Norton, Safe Web Lite can be installed in Firefox up to version 10.

I have no problems installing toolbars from other vendors like McAfee Site Advisor or Siber Systems Roboform so why are Norton making it so difficult?

I would like to have the protection of Safe Web Lite until I am able to upgrade to a more stable version of Firefox and so would like to install the Safe Web Lite Toolbar as soon as possible.

Can you please advise how to remove the NIS disabled toolbar so that I can install Safe Web Lite.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

Krusty13 — Mon, 07 May 2012 00:44:03 GMT

Hi crisco8722,

By running outdated versions of Firefox you aren't as secure as you would be using Firefox 12. Each new version brings with it security patches.

Thanks, Dave.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

crisoco8722 — Mon, 07 May 2012 00:56:51 GMT

Krusty13 wrote:
By running outdated versions of Firefox you aren't as secure as you would be using Firefox 12. Each new version brings with it security patches.

Thanks Dave.

Yes, I realise the security implication but it doesn't answer my question and there is no point installing a more up to date version of Firefox that simply will not run without crashing all the time. Versions 8 and 9 are fine but 10, 11 and 12 are not.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

Krusty13 — Mon, 07 May 2012 01:01:44 GMT

When you have tried updating did you update from within Firefox? Have you tried uninstalling Firefox before installing the new version?

All the versions you mention have worked fine on my system. I currently use FF12 and it works flawlessly.

Dave.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

crisoco8722 — Mon, 07 May 2012 01:16:31 GMT

Yes, nobody could have tried harder than I have to make Firefox 12 work. I tried a complete new profile and installed add-ons in batches to monitor the effect. I never upgrade Firefox. I always remove the old one and install the new version. Reverting Flash back to the previous version did help but I am afraid that 8.0.1 or 9.01 are the only ones that are stable with my installation.

I wish I could install Pale Moon 12 (same engine as Firefox 12) on my system but it does not have all the supported toolbars that are required. In my opinion Pale Moon is the only reliable browser out there.

I simply need to get Safe Web Lite sorted as soon as possible.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

SendOfJive — Mon, 07 May 2012 19:22:28 GMT

Hi crisoco8722,

Norton Safe Web Lite has been abandoned and replaced with a standalone version of Norton Identity Safe. Neither of these can be installed on a machine already running NIS or Norton 360.

FIrefox 12 is not unstable, and it is a little concerning that you are finding it to be so. You should not be having to find workarounds for problems that your computer is having in running programs that are designed for, and should run perfectly well on, your operating system.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

crisoco8722 — Mon, 07 May 2012 23:14:49 GMT

SendOfJive wrote:
Norton Safe Web Lite has been abandoned and replaced with a standalone version of Norton Identity Safe. Neither of these can be installed on a machine already running NIS or Norton 360.

As far as I am aware Norton Safe Web Lite is still available for installing on any computer running Firefox 10 or earlier.

Norton Identity Safe is a more advanced program and still in beta as I understand.

SendOfJive wrote:
FIrefox 12 is not unstable ........ and should run perfectly well on your operating system.

As I pointed out Firefox 8.0.1 runs perfectly. Firefox 12 certainly does not and I am not alone.

There are 193 reports of similar crashes with Firefox 11 & 12 involving the latest Flash plugin.

Firefox 12 is an advanced browser and whilst it may run on Windows 7 it may not run successfully with all processors.

Pale Moon 12 which is a cut down version of Firefox 12 will certainly not run, or even install for that matter, on a computer with an AMD Athlon XP processor.

It is a great pity that Norton cannot enable the toolbar that it has installed and even more disappointing that it cannot provide any other means of safe surfing.

In the circumstances I have no option but to install yet more add-ons from other providers that do not restrict installation like .......

McAfee - Site Advisor

M86 Security - M86 Secure Browsing

Bitdefender - TrafficLight

Linkular - LinkExtend

etc.

or go back to the dark ages and enter each search result into Norton Safe Search!

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

twixt — Mon, 07 May 2012 23:41:18 GMT

crisoco8722 wrote:
Yes, nobody could have tried harder than I have to make Firefox 12 work. I tried a complete new profile and installed add-ons in batches to monitor the effect. I never upgrade Firefox. I always remove the old one and install the new version. Reverting Flash back to the previous version did help but I am afraid that 8.0.1 or 9.01 are the only ones that are stable with my installation.

I wish I could install Pale Moon 12 (same engine as Firefox 12) on my system but it does not have all the supported toolbars that are required. In my opinion Pale Moon is the only reliable browser out there.

I simply need to get Safe Web Lite sorted as soon as possible.

Hi, crisoco872. There is a powerful linkage between Browsers and Video Drivers. Anytime a newer browser version is unstable, and an older version works properly - checking for Video Driver updates (as well as reports from the Video Manufacturer's forums that the newest video driver update has busted something) is an important part of the problem-resolution process.

I have seen completely unstable browsers "magically" restored to completely stable operation - just by updating an old Video Driver that does not properly or reliably support a feature the new Browser requires for correct operation.

There have also been interactions between Printer Drivers and Browsers (yes, I know - but the two things do interact). There have been notorious problems with HP Printer Drivers and Lexmark Printer Drivers in this regard - especially with inkjet printers.

Then there is the well known "font problem" - where a corrupted font causes a Browser to go "kerblam" and everything else on the machine works fine.

Considering that your problem is of long standing - through multiple FF generations - I expect your problem is external to FF. Your issue would have been fixed long ago otherwise. What you have to do now is enough detective work to figure out what about your particular installation is causing your FF compatibility problem.

Your current efforts are working around the issue - which is no longer sufficient. Symantec have decided they are not going to continue to spend CPU cycles bulletproofing "ancient" versions of stuff - that have no place being installed on modern machines. Like it or not - you need to fix your machine and quit blaming Symantec for a problem that is not of their making.

Hope this helps.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

SendOfJive — Tue, 08 May 2012 00:04:02 GMT

Hi crisoco8733,

Your link references FIrefox 11 and Flash Player 11.2.202.233, neither of which are the most recent versions. I am running Firefox 12 on Windows XP with no problems at all, as was true of all earlier versions of the browser. Norton Safe Web LIte might still be available but it is no longer being actively maintained. I think you definitely have a problem if you need to cast about for an out of date version of the Norton Toolbar in order to run it on an out of date browser. If that is the best that your system will allow, I still maintain that your system is the questionable variable, here. You should not be having these sorts of issues.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

crisoco8722 — Tue, 08 May 2012 00:05:47 GMT

Hi Twixt,

I have checked and updated any drivers that were necessary. Windows is working fine. Firefox 8.0.1 is working fine and I have pointed out that the issue is not necessarily with my installation, with the exception that the processor is old by modern standards.

I am not blaming Norton for anything I am just stating that they do not help by discontinuing support for versions of browsers that are not that old and loading toolbars into browsers that they do not support. My problem is not longstanding and Firefox 8 is certainly not ancient as you call it. Firefox 8.0.1 was only released in November 2011.

Thank you for your advice.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

crisoco8722 — Fri, 11 May 2012 12:38:37 GMT

Hello SendOfJive, twixt and Krusty13,

I sincerely apologise for not coming back sooner but I have taken on board some of your comments and have been doing some very intensive research into why this unusual javascript issue is taking place.

I wouldn't say that I have the complete answer but now I do at least know what is causing this issue.

My opinion is that Windows 7 is a very advanced operating system and is causing some problems when running Javascript with older processors and that is why some web site pages that include a vast amount of JavaScript cannot be loaded completely and crash Firefox. I find that the solution is quite simple and by adding those pages to YesScript will prevent those individual sites from loading Javascript altogether. Most sites will still work without it except when it comes to posting in the Norton Forum for example but simply enabling Javascript for that posting page seems to solves that issue.

It may perhaps be a workaround as such but is the best solution that I can find for now. Everything else on the system seems to be working fine at present and the fact that Javascript will run successfully in some other browsers tells me there is nothing really to worry about unduly. I realise of course that when Mozilla release Firefox13 the Norton toolbar issue will rear its ugly head again but all I can do is wait till that time and test out the new version.

I have drawn up a table of my findings for anyone that is interested. If I have anything further to report I will post back my findings. Thank you everyone for you help.

To be able to post this I had to open up the posting page enable javascript and refresh the page. But if Javascript is not immediately disabled on returning to the forum page then Firefox 10.0.2 will immediately crash.

I also notice that when opening the page in Opera that the image is not available even though Javascript is enabled there. I think Javascript seems to be handled differently by Firefox & Opera browsers. Perhaps I need to ask Opera Support why I cannot post to Norton in Opera with nothing more than plain text.

This is how the image shows in Opera.

Sorry that I have to edit this post yet again but have just noticed that the image has appeared in the Norton results in Opera. It probably takes a while for it to come through the servers I guess.

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

shannons — Fri, 11 May 2012 13:14:19 GMT

Moved to own thread for better exposure..

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

SendOfJive — Fri, 11 May 2012 17:50:02 GMT

Hi crisoco8722,

Does Firefox crash when you start it from All Programs > Firefox (Safe Mode)?

Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

crisoco8722 — Fri, 11 May 2012 19:05:17 GMT

I have already done a check in safe mode but just to be sure that things haven't changed I did it again but by the way Firefox does not have a safe mode option in Windows 7 / All Programs. I start it from the new Profiles Manager. It is very difficult to test this out now because I have Javascript permanently turned off for (download.com, Norton forum, Maplin) so even loading in Safe Mode will still load these sites with Javascript disabled. However I did manage to test them with Javascript enabled. Everything is as before. It can be deceiving because this time I was able to load all the 3 contentious sites (download.com, Norton forum, Maplin) and search within them for 5 minutes before the inevitable and Firefox crashes. It is definitely a cpu processor problem as the first time I tried loading Norton Forum the cpu kept at a constant high 100% until (like the Norton auto scans) it just gets too much for the processor and either freezes (like it did this time) or crashes Firefox like it did the second time after re-loading in Safe Mode. I am trying to post this reply from Opera to see if posting a normal text reply works.

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

SendOfJive — Fri, 11 May 2012 19:35:16 GMT

crisoco8722 wrote:
It is definitely a cpu processor problem as the first time I tried loading Norton Forum the cpu kept at a constant high 100% until (like the Norton auto scans) it just gets too much for the processor and either freezes (like it did this time) or crashes Firefox like it did the second time after re-loading in Safe Mode.

It is not necessarily a definite CPU issue. The CPU usage goes up because whatever is handing the JavaScript is demanding processor time. It could be the JIT Compiler, for which there is a workaround. To find out, you will have to enable JavaScript and run Firefox in its Safe Mode (not Windows Safe Mode). If the crashes stop, it is most likely the JIT Compiler, which does not run in Safe Mode, and which can be turned off altogether if necessary.

http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/Safe%20Mode

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#JIT_compiler

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

crisoco8722 — Fri, 11 May 2012 20:17:39 GMT

Thank you for links SendOfJive. Perhaps I did not make it clear. I have run Firefox in safe mode with Javascript enabled for every site and the crashes still happen (specifically when loading or using those sites I mentioned). I probably confused matters by referring to YesScript disabling those 3 sites but I had managed to get them enabled again for the test. It is a pity that the JIT Compiler does not seem to be the answer. I have an idea to use again RequestPolicy and try blocking those links that are not necessary for the running of each site. It is either RequestPolicy or NoScript but I could not get on with NoScript because it was far too invasive for me. RequestPolicy is less invasive but perhaps I could handle it again. Sorry all this text runs in one paragraph but that is how Opera seems to deal with it. At least it doesn't cause the hassle that Firefox does! I still think it is cpu. Opera doesn't run at quite such high levels as Firefox. Perhaps that is why it doesn't handle the full text facilities that Norton offers. Thanks for your help again.

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

crisoco8722 — Sat, 12 May 2012 00:21:38 GMT

I think I might have solved the problem.

RequestPolicy

I tried RequestPolicy but it didn't have sufficient options to remove the necessary scripts.

NoScript

NoScript works brilliantly and allows only the following scripts with no Firefox crashes whatsoever.

Norton Forum

2 out of 5 scripts allowed

norton.com

lithium.com

Maplin

1 out of 5 scripts allowed

maplin.co.uk

Download.cnet.com

2 out of 9 scripts allowed

cbsistatic.com

cnet.com

To login to download.cnet.com to post reviews does require extra scripts to run but Opera can be used for this when necessary ......

com.com

scorecardresearch,com

The list of links for download.cnet.com is quite amazing (gradually creeps up to around 11 scripts) and it is not surprising that my processor does not like it. It is interesting to watch these links gradually appear and be blocked.

This makes a considerable difference to the cpu load / memory and so far seems to have rectified the problem crashes.

Tomorrow when I get time I will re-test Firefox 11 and Firefox 12 to see if NoScript cures the problem there as well.

I have also solved the problem of not being able to post in Rich Text in Opera and that was due to an AdBlocker. Allowing the page and all was well again.

There is a tiny remaining issue with restarting Firefox which sometimes crashes on starting up again. I tried various addons but am not sure which is the best yet. Have settled with Restart 0.0.0.3m to see how it goes but the browser always starts minimized which is a pain. Perhaps when I test Firefox 12 there will be more buttons that are compatible.

It has been a long haul but I seem to be getting there slow but sure. I will keep you posted.

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

twixt — Sun, 13 May 2012 18:20:42 GMT

crisoco8722 wrote:
I think I might have solved the problem.

RequestPolicy
I tried RequestPolicy but it didn't have sufficient options to remove the necessary scripts.

NoScript
NoScript works brilliantly and allows only the following scripts with no Firefox crashes whatsoever.

Norton Forum
2 out of 5 scripts allowed
norton.com
lithium.com

Maplin
1 out of 5 scripts allowed
maplin.co.uk

Download.cnet.com
2 out of 9 scripts allowed
cbsistatic.com
cnet.com

To login to download.cnet.com to post reviews does require extra scripts to run but Opera can be used for this when necessary ......
com.com
scorecardresearch,com

The list of links for download.cnet.com is quite amazing (gradually creeps up to around 11 scripts) and it is not surprising that my processor does not like it. It is interesting to watch these links gradually appear and be blocked.

This makes a considerable difference to the cpu load / memory and so far seems to have rectified the problem crashes.

Tomorrow when I get time I will re-test Firefox 11 and Firefox 12 to see if NoScript cures the problem there as well.

I have also solved the problem of not being able to post in Rich Text in Opera and that was due to an AdBlocker. Allowing the page and all was well again.

There is a tiny remaining issue with restarting Firefox which sometimes crashes on starting up again. I tried various addons but am not sure which is the best yet. Have settled with Restart 0.0.0.3m to see how it goes but the browser always starts minimized which is a pain. Perhaps when I test Firefox 12 there will be more buttons that are compatible.

It has been a long haul but I seem to be getting there slow but sure. I will keep you posted.

Excellent, excellent research - both in this post and previous. Well done! You've got the problem on the run...

Some things to check out:

1. Browser updates commonly increase execution efficiency. What this means, is the newer code allows Javascript to run more quickly - which puts stress on the CPU and Memory subsystems at a higher level than older browser code. Since slow Javascript is a bugbear for all browsers - Firefox has definitely invested time and energy into increasing execution efficiency for Javascript in newer versions - and this has "pushed things over the edge" for you.

2. I have a machine on my desk right now that intermittently corrupts files when copying. This first showed up when comparing the copied files in a Dosbox. The fact that subsequent runs showed different results indicated memory subsystem instability at high load. And it was "right on the edge". Only a continuous run - where the memory modules heated up - would produce the problem. On the first run of a compare - only a few mismatched bytes were found. The second run - many more. This is typical for memory as it heats up - the memory timing must allow memory access to complete properly even when the chips are hot.

3. I went into the CMOS parameters and changed the memory timings. Voila - I can now copy files to my heart's content - and verify them with Comp.exe in a DOSBox - and things are working great. Porblem solved. :smileyhappy:

In your situation:

1. Are you running overclocked? If so, bump things down a notch. CPU timing requirements also increase as the CPU gets hot - which is why it is necessary to run CPU tests for hours/days to ensure the CPU is stable before accepting an overclock. It is incorrect to assume an overclock that works properly for only a few hours is stable. Gradual "bit rot" from disk write errors caused by memory corruption puts the machine at risk - and this is why many enthusiasts end up needing to reinstall their OS - and they find their datafiles corrupt - when their overclock is unstable.

2. It is very common for motherboard BIOS timings for both CPU and memory to be incorrect with early BIOS revisions. This was especially so with the Intel 865/875 and the Nforce2 chipsets - as they were early examples of Dual-Channel boards with PET. Ensure you are running the latest-'n-greatest BIOS for your motherboard. This is one of the best ways to ensure that "default" BIOS parameters are valid.

3. Even with the latest BIOS, you can still have problems with "performance" memory. All those memory-timing options in the BIOS are there for a reason - now you know why. And yes, there are situations where a particular motherboard just doesn't "like" a particular brand/model of memory - and all that can be done is to exchange those memory sticks for a brand/model that is known to work properly with your particular motherboard.

4. Research your motherboard on enthusiast websites. There is no doubt this is where you're going to find the info on the feebles and foibles of your particular motherboard - even if you don't overclock the thing. There are driver issues (Intel INF updates, for example) that also affect system stability - reading in enthusiast forums for info on your particular configuration (CPU, Motherboard, Memory) is an invaluable asset in figuring out how to get an unstable system to run stably again.

5. If nothing else works, post a message in the forum on an enthusiast website - explaining your situation and your system configuration. Even if you are not overclocking, one of the overclocking experts will still be able to help you with custom memory timings, CPU and memory voltages, and similar adjustments which will increase stability on your system. For example, it is quite common for "performance" memory to require a slightly higher voltage than "stock" - before that memory gets up and dances like it should. If you don't know that - and how much to up the voltage - and how much is too much - you'll never get your system to run stably.

Some sites with forums to check out: Overclockers.com, Hardware Canucks. Google "overclocking" for others.

Hope this helps.

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

crisoco8722 — Sun, 13 May 2012 22:02:57 GMT

Hello twixt,

Thank you for your kind comments and support. My goodness you have a wealth of information there and far too much for my digestion. I may appear to have a wealth of knowledge but rest assured it takes me for ever to research things and come up with the answers.

I am not into overclocking and everything is as basic as it goes because I just do not have the experience to go meddling with the BIOS and various settings. Your advice to ask in one of the forums is a good idea. When I have more time I will check things out in more depth to see if anything else is amiss.

The addon NoScript has been a real benefit. I tested out Firefox 11 and Firefox 12 and they were still unusable. I even tested Pale Moon again but amazingly that crashed on loading the Norton Forum even with NoScript blocking nearly all the scripts. Firefox 10 gave the occasional crash when re-starting so I have had to revert back to my tried and tested Firefox 8.0.1 which is completely stable so far. It even restarts with all the original tabs and no crashes whatsoever.

I shall mark this post as solved now unless anything else crops up meantime.

Thanks twixt and everyone else who contributed.

For now it will be Firefox 8.0.1 with NoScript and Opera 11.64 but unfortunately no Norton Toolbar.

On a parting note it is interesting that Opera 11 has never crashed once. It is a great browser.