topic Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk in Norton Internet Security / Norton AntiVirus

NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

dirtylinen — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:29:25 GMT

Just upgraded from Systemworks 2004 to Systemworks 2009, which includes NAV 2009. Now other computers on our lan have trouble accessing files on this hard disk. Things work fine for awhile, then in some random time period later (up to an hour or so) the other workstations start getting Windows delayed write errors, errors opening files (they are opened read-only because it appears that something has the file open for writing already), and eventually no access at all (trying to even look at folders on the shared disk in Windows Explorer times out, but it takes 10 minutes to do so...) This problem started happening right after I installed Systemworks 2009.

Computer A: Win XP SP2, upgraded from Systemworks 2004 to Systemworks 2009. Has second hard disk that is shared.

Computer B: Win XP SP2, Systemworks 2004.

Computer C: Win 98, some other vendor's anti-virus.

Computer A seems to work just fine by itself. Computers B & C work OK for awhile, but then start having problems accessing Computer A's shared disk. The only way to fix it appears to be rebooting all 3 computers.

I have tried turning off everything in NAV 2009 (intrusion detection, antispyware, SONAR, everything in Internet Settings, and now finally Anti-Virus itself -- haven't seen if that last one makes the problem disappear, but obviously I now have no anti-virus protection).

There have been no warnings from NAV 2009, and the History doesn't have anything of interest (although it did complain a lot about Viewmgr.exe when I had intrusion detection turned on).

Maybe I'm going in the wrong direction, could it be something in Systemworks?

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

jeopardy — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:39:10 GMT

Dirtylinen,

I had virtually the same problem. My problem was with a file server on a peer to peer network. I upgraded the Norton AV from 2008 to 2009 on Thursday. Beginning Friday, I started receiving random errors in our DOS accounting software. The software would typically lock up during updates. I would receive Delayed Write Errors on the server. I spent the next 5 days replacing & testing network cards, hubs, wiring, a hard disk drive, and because I had an identical computer laying around, I even swapped it out. Nothing worked. With each change in hardware, the system would work for about an hour - then start locking up applications. The only way to clear the file lock was to reboot the computer.

I finally uninstalled Norton Antivirus 2009 - and I have not had a problem since. I am now using my original hubs, wiring, hardware, etc. - everything but Norton Antivirus 2009.

I have submitted a request for assistance with the Norton Technical support department (about 2 days ago), but have not received an answer

My server is running Win XP - SP3.

I have also updated my work station with NAV2009 - but have not experienced any problems

I am holding off upgrading the remaining work stations in the office.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

dirtylinen — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:23:21 GMT

Followup: I turned off Auto Protect and the disk access problems disappeared. So I turned it back on, but all the sub-options are off (early load, removable media, and caching). And the problems have not returned. I'm going to turn on the options one at a time and see what happens. I think I'll start with Caching.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

dirtylinen — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:11:55 GMT

One last followup: I spoke too soon, it is AutoProtect that is the culprit. If it's on, then the disk access problems appear. Other settings don't seem to have an effect.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

Tech0utsider — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:41:22 GMT

You will want to disable Automatic Windows File Sharing control.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

dirtylinen — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 02:18:55 GMT

OK, where do I find that setting in NAV 2009?

Or do you mean un-share the disk in Windows? Can't do that, the disk has files that other workstations need to work on.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

Tony_Weiss — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 01:07:00 GMT

I have sent you additional instructions via the community Private Messenger system, please look for the in the upper right hand corner of any community page. Thanks!

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

jeopardy — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:28:25 GMT

Tony,

As you can see from my earlier post, I also am having a hard disk access problem with Norton AV 2009. I have an open incident (#081013-000989) with Norton Technical support, but have not received a reply.

In a nutshell, I have a file server running Windows XP - peer to peer network. I upgraded the antivirus software to Norton 2009 on Thursday October 9. Starting on Friday Oct 10, I began have some problems with "Delayed Write Failures". This machine has our accounting software on it - a DOS application. We began experiencing lockups in the software, usually during a "posting" operation. Once the application locked up, it was impossible to gain access that specific data file - until the server rebooted. It appeared to be a "bad block" or file sharing problem. The problem would show up after about 45-60 minutes of use.

I originally suspected a defective hard disk drive - replaced it - did not resolve the problem.
I changed out the network card - no change
I changed out the network switch - no change
I changed out the entire computer system - no change
After about 5 days of trying virtually everything in could think of (including disabling Norton antivirus) I was unable to correct the problem.

In desperation, I finally Un-Installed the Norton Antivirus 2009 package on Friday Oct 17th. The problem has not shown up since. We have now run about 10 days with out a problem (and without antivirus software).

The other problem is that the upgrade to NAV2009 removes NAV2008. Since I have now removed NAV2009, I have temporarily solved the problem with my computer - but I do not have the NAV2008 to reinstall (it was an automatic upgrade from a prior release)

Do you have any suggestions?!?

Thanks

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

Tim_Lopez — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:09:34 GMT

Hello Jeopardy,

You can install NAV 2008 from this location (for right now) - http://www.symantec.com/newnav/

Did you try disabling random features in NAV 2009 to see if it was a particular component that caused this?

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

jeopardy — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:55:36 GMT

Tim,

One of the first things that I did when I had this problem was to disable Norton Antivirus - for about an hour or so (using "Disable Antivirus Auto-Protect". But, even with it "disabled", I still had problems. So, I ruled out NAV2009 as the problem and assumed it was a hardware issue. I tested a slew of hardware solutions - and over the next week, ruled them all out.

In desperation, I un-installed NAV2009 - and have not had a problem since. The system has been working flawlessly for about 2 weeks now.

I just reinstalled NAV2008 and assume that I will not have any problems.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

Tim_Lopez — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:54:10 GMT

Hello dirtylinen/Jeopardy,

We have a couple questions regarding this issue:

1) Could you provide us with Step-by-Step instructions on how to reproduce this issue?

2) Is there anything else on your computers that might be causing the connection to be blocked? Firewalls?

3) What format is the shared disk? NTFS, FAT?

4) Does running a chkdsk on your main computer help?

5) If you try disabling each NAV feature one-by-one, does this ever resolve the issue?

Message Edited by Tim_Lopez on 10-29-2008 05:51 PM

Message Edited by Tim_Lopez on 10-29-2008 05:54 PM

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

dirtylinen — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:52:34 GMT

Tim_Lopez wrote:
Hello dirtylinen/Jeopardy,

We have a couple questions regarding this issue:

1) Could you provide us with Step-by-Step instructions on how to reproduce this issue?

2) Is there anything else on your computers that might be causing the connection to be blocked? Firewalls?

3) What format is the shared disk? NTFS, FAT?

4) Does running a chkdsk on your main computer help?

5) If you try disabling each NAV feature one-by-one, does this ever resolve the issue?
Message Edited by Tim_Lopez on 10-29-2008 05:51 PM
Message Edited by Tim_Lopez on 10-29-2008 05:54 PM

1. Computer A was upgraded from Systemworks 2004 to Systemworks 2009. 2009 was running with default settings for NAV. There is a shared hard disk, Y:. Computer B accesses documents & files on Y: using programs like Word Perfect, MS Word, Firefox (the cache and user profiles and bookmarks are on Y:), Eudora (INI files and mailboxes and attachments folders are on Y:), Adobe InDesign, Photoshop, etc. After anywhere from 2 minutes to 2 hours, the Y: disk becomes inaccessible to Computer B. Sometimes we get Windows delayed write failed, sometimes Eudora or WP will be unable to access any files on Y:, they just hang. Task manager shows them as not responding. If I let it sit for 10 minutes they will either simply exit with no error message or get the delayed write error. Doing an end task with task manager takes many minutes to actually end them. WP will sometimes open a file from Y: as read-only, I guess because it thinks the file is already open for writing. After the problem happens, Windows Explorer is unable to see any folders on Y: (hangs with hourglass forever). Turning off Autoprotect does not fix the problem at this point, we have to reboot Computer A. (Rebooting Computer B without rebooting A does not help.)

2. Using Windows firewall. Did not change any settings between NAV 2004 and NAV 2009 -- everything worked with NAV 2004, the only change is uninstalling 2004 and installing 2009. If I run 2009 with AutoProtect OFF, Computer B has no problems. I tried fiddling with other settings (caching, removable media scan, SONAR, etc.) but AutoProtect is the one that will cause problems if it is ON.

3. Shared disk Y: is NTFS. It's a SCSI disk using Adaptec host adapter. (A second hard disk and scanner are also on the SCSI bus.)

4. chkdsk on C: finds problems (I did not run with /F so it didn't fix them):

Deleting index entry NO918D~1.ZIP in index $I130 of file 14100.

Deleting index entry norton$202009$20streaming$20virus$20definitions_1.0symalllanguages_livetri.zip in index $I130 of file 14100.

5. Yes. It's AutoProtect. I have the rest of the settings as defaults. I tried turning off the sub-settings of AutoProtect and those don't have an effect.

We have a Computer C that exhibits the same symptoms as Computer B.

-paul

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

jeopardy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:19:24 GMT

Tim,

THIS IS MY 3RD ATTEMPT TO POST A RESPONSE TO THIS SITE. EVERYTIME I SUBMIT THE POST, YOUR SITE DELETES MY MESSAGE WITH AN AUTHENTICATION ISSUE. THIS IS $%*&^^$**$$* FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST.

SO IN 20 WORDS OR LESS:

1) Install NAV2009 - have problems on server

2) No. Windows firewall only

3) NTFS

4) Did not run when I had the problem, but only found some unallocated disk space

5) Disabled all of NAV - no change. Unistalled NAV - fixed problem

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

mijcar — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:50:01 GMT

Authentication issues can only occur if you spend an excessive amount of time writing the message, enough that you get signed out from Norton. I've spent a very long time with no problem. But if you do need all that time, why don't you take your time and write your message in notepad the way you want it, then cut & paste it here, using the clipboard symbol (4th icon from the left in the "reply to message section" )? Seems simple enough. Might even save your *&^^$**$$* vocabulary, too.

Message Edited by mijcar on 10-30-2008 09:50 AM

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

jeopardy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:11:33 GMT

mijcar,

per your notepad suggestion, here is a more lengthly posting...

1) Could you provide us with Step-by-Step instructions on how to reproduce this issue?

Not much of a step-by-step ... installed NAV2009 on Thursday evening. On Friday morning began having problems with some of our data files locking up. NAV2009 was installed with all of the default settings. Spent a week trying to diagnose a suspected hardware problem and ended up resolving it by removing NAV2009.

2) Is there anything else on your computers that might be causing the connection to be blocked? Firewalls?

No firewalls other than the standard Windows firewall. Computer has a 3.0 Ghz Pentium D processor, 1GB of memory, and an external USB hard disk drive (for backup). I tried a different Network Card, 2 different network switches, different cables, different hard disk drive, different processor, all with the same result. There was no change with the USB drive installed - or not installed. In other words, I ruled out defective hardware as the cause of this problem - though it is still possible that there is a conflict between NAV2009 and my hardware.

The system is primarily used to run a DOS based accounting system (Great Plains). The system also has a windows program (Fabsoft Reform) that intercepts the printer output to format it for a laser printer. The only other application of note is UPS's package shipping program. The accounting software resides in a shared folder that is accessed by 4 work stations (XP, XP, XP, & Vista). The problem usually crops up during a posting operation. When the error occurs, the server displays a Delayed Write Error. I can find no errors in the event logs. Although the problem typically occured when a work station accessed the files, it would also happen if the server accessed the files. In this case, the server was also accessing the files through a mapped drive.

3) What format is the shared disk? NTFS, FAT?

The shared disk is NTFS.

4) Does running a chkdsk on your main computer help?

Did not run chkdsk when I was having this problem, but I just ran it and did not see any issues with Files, Indexes, or File descriptors. Did find some unallocated disk space. I did however copy all the files to a different hard disk drive (using XXCLONE) and had problems on that drive as well.

5) If you try disabling each NAV feature one-by-one, does this ever resolve the issue?

Did not try disabling individual features. Did disable all of NAV2009 using the "Disable Antivirus Autoprotect" option - but it had no effect on the problem.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

Allen_K — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:43:07 GMT

jeopardy wrote:

THIS IS MY 3RD ATTEMPT TO POST A RESPONSE TO THIS SITE. EVERYTIME I SUBMIT THE POST, YOUR SITE DELETES MY MESSAGE WITH AN AUTHENTICATION ISSUE. THIS IS $%*&^^$**$$* FRUSTRATING TO SAY THE LEAST.

mijcar wrote:
Authentication issues can only occur if you spend an excessive amount of time writing the message, enough that you get signed out from Norton. I've spent a very long time with no problem. But if you do need all that time, why don't you take your time and write your message in notepad the way you want it, then cut & paste it here, using the clipboard symbol (4th icon from the left in the "reply to message section" )? Seems simple enough. Might even save your *&^^$**$$* vocabulary, too.

Hi jeopardy,

Most likely mijcar is correct on the reason for the authentication error, too much time. Sessions expire after 30 minutes of inactivity. There is a list that appears on the screen of 5 things that could have gone wrong, but the list is wordy and can be hard to understand. The two most common reasons for you to get an authentication error when posting are: too much elapsed time editing or your IP address changed. The second most likely would only occur when using certain mobile devices with personal data plans.

To add a couple more tips:

On windows based systems: Before pressing the post button you can click anywhere in your post and press ctrl-a (which selects all) followed by ctrl-c (copy) to put your entire post on your computers clipboard. If you need to recover it after an error, get to a new message entry window and press ctrl-v (to paste the clipboard). If you use copy and paste for anything else, be careful not to copy something else to your clipboard before you paste back.

If you have been composing and editing your post for a long time, you can also open another window or tab before posting to make sure that you are still logged into the forum.

Finally the box on the login screen "Remember my login on this computer" may help as well, but this is also dependent on what browser you are using, browser settings, and what 3rd party apps you are using to help manage cookies.

Sorry you had authentification problems, and I hope these suggestions help you.

[edit: fixed typos.]

Message Edited by Allen_K on 10-30-2008 01:43 PM

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

mijcar — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:21:47 GMT

Jeopardy, I am not going to try pass myself off as an expect on this issue. So if I say something you've tried or which turns out to be irrelevant, I apologize in advance.

This is from years ago. I once had a problem at work when we were sharing a printer. The problem was basically a time-out problem: too much time elapsing between when the information was sent out to the printer and when the printer got it. What I remember doing to solve the issue was (I believe) going into the printer properties and changing the length of time to wait. I think we did something like set it at zero which was supposed to translate (ironically) as infinity - that is, wait forever if need be. Perhaps something like this might be a resolution.

It does occur to me that the old malware checking strategy was to examine virtually every byte opened, copied or (applicable in this case) sent anywhere. Perhaps the data is still being analyzed and the analysis causes a slowdown and the slowdown cause a timeout error? Or I might not know anything. Wish I could be more definite about his old problem. If I recall more of the solution, I will let you know because what I remember of the observed behavior certain seems to match a lot of what you describe.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

tidypcs — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:01:11 GMT

I came across they in a Google search. I have 2 separate clients with peer to peer that upgraded forn 2008 and the other from 2007 Antivirus to 2009 Antivirus. A few days later the other computers in the office had problems accessing the computer that acts like a server. Disable Norton Service and all is well. Installed a temporary virus protestion to keep the office going until I find a fix. The one office the workstations were getting access denied to shared folder and you get a message that you exceeded the limit of number users having access to the computer acting as server (Windows Home) - only has 2 workstations accessing it.

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

servsol — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:10:29 GMT

I'm having the same issue on my peer-to-peer network.

We have 7 computerfs that people work at, and another computer that no one works at, which hosts our MYOB company file and all of our MS Office documents.

When we upgraded the file-serving computer to NAV 2009 we started getting network errors in MYOB and file access issues in our word docs. Every now and then the mapped network drives would not be available for 30 seconds, then would work again. But we had to restart the file-server to access files again.

When I uninstalled NAV2009 from the file-server, all the problems went away.

I have since reinstalled NAV2008 on the file server and everything works fine.

(The other computers still have 2009)

Re: NAV 2009 blocks access to hard disk

huwyngr — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:12:34 GMT

You have already started a thread on your situation -- please check on that for replies.