Reply
Super Spyware Scolder
crisoco8722
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎05-14-2009

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

[ Edited ]

Hello SendOfJive, twixt and Krusty13,

I sincerely apologise for not coming back sooner but I have taken on board some of your comments and have been doing some very intensive research into why this unusual javascript issue is taking place.

I wouldn't say that I have the complete answer but now I do at least know what is causing this issue.

My opinion is that Windows 7 is a very advanced operating system and is causing some problems when running Javascript with older processors and that is why some web site pages that include a vast amount of JavaScript cannot be loaded completely and crash Firefox. I find that the solution is quite simple and by adding those pages to YesScript will prevent those individual sites from loading Javascript altogether. Most sites will still work without it except when it comes to posting in the Norton Forum for example but simply enabling Javascript for that posting page seems to solves that issue.

It may perhaps be a workaround as such but is the best solution that I can find for now. Everything else on the system seems to be working fine at present and the fact that Javascript will run successfully in some other browsers tells me there is nothing really to worry about unduly. I realise of course that when Mozilla release Firefox13 the Norton toolbar issue will rear its ugly head again but all I can do is wait till that time and test out the new version.

I have drawn up a table of my findings for anyone that is interested. If I have anything further to report I will post back my findings. Thank you everyone for you help.

 

Browser Javascript Tests.png

 

To be able to post this I had to open up the posting page enable javascript and refresh the page. But if Javascript is not immediately disabled on returning to the forum page then Firefox 10.0.2 will immediately crash.

I also notice that when opening the page in Opera that the image is not available even though Javascript is enabled there. I think Javascript seems to be handled differently by Firefox & Opera browsers. Perhaps I need to ask Opera Support why I cannot post to Norton in Opera with nothing more than plain text.

 

This is how the image shows in Opera.

 

Opera does not display Norton Images.png

 

Sorry that I have to edit this post yet again but have just noticed that the image has appeared in the Norton results in Opera. It probably takes a while for it to come through the servers I guess.

AMD Athlon XP processor • 2gb ram • Windows 7 Home x32 • Norton Internet Security 2012 • Firefox 8.0.1 • NoScript • Opera 11 • TrafficLight • Site Advisor • Minimem • Sandboxie • Malwarebytes Free • SuperAntispyware Free • CCleaner • WinPatrol, Cobian 10 Backup • TuneUp Utilities 2012 • UltraFileSearch.
shannons
Posts: 10,692
Topics: 44
Kudos: 105
Solutions: 7
Registered: ‎01-07-2009

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

SendOfJive
Posts: 9,908
Kudos: 4,195
Solutions: 706
Registered: ‎02-07-2009

Re: NIS12 blocks installing Safe Web Lite

Hi crisoco8722,

 

Does Firefox crash when you start it from All Programs > Firefox (Safe Mode)?

Super Spyware Scolder
crisoco8722
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎05-14-2009

Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

I have already done a check in safe mode but just to be sure that things haven't changed I did it again but by the way Firefox does not have a safe mode option in Windows 7 / All Programs. I start it from the new Profiles Manager. It is very difficult to test this out now because I have Javascript permanently turned off for (download.com, Norton forum, Maplin) so even loading in Safe Mode will still load these sites with Javascript disabled. However I did manage to test them with Javascript enabled. Everything is as before. It can be deceiving because this time I was able to load all the 3 contentious sites (download.com, Norton forum, Maplin) and search within them for 5 minutes before the inevitable and Firefox crashes. It is definitely a cpu processor problem as the first time I tried loading Norton Forum the cpu kept at a constant high 100% until (like the Norton auto scans) it just gets too much for the processor and either freezes (like it did this time) or crashes Firefox like it did the second time after re-loading in Safe Mode. I am trying to post this reply from Opera to see if posting a normal text reply works.
AMD Athlon XP processor • 2gb ram • Windows 7 Home x32 • Norton Internet Security 2012 • Firefox 8.0.1 • NoScript • Opera 11 • TrafficLight • Site Advisor • Minimem • Sandboxie • Malwarebytes Free • SuperAntispyware Free • CCleaner • WinPatrol, Cobian 10 Backup • TuneUp Utilities 2012 • UltraFileSearch.
SendOfJive
Posts: 9,908
Kudos: 4,195
Solutions: 706
Registered: ‎02-07-2009

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

[ Edited ]

crisoco8722 wrote:
It is definitely a cpu processor problem as the first time I tried loading Norton Forum the cpu kept at a constant high 100% until (like the Norton auto scans) it just gets too much for the processor and either freezes (like it did this time) or crashes Firefox like it did the second time after re-loading in Safe Mode.


It is not necessarily a definite CPU issue.  The CPU usage goes up because whatever is handing the JavaScript is demanding processor time.  It could be the JIT Compiler, for which there is a workaround.  To find out, you will have to enable JavaScript and run Firefox in its Safe Mode (not Windows Safe Mode).  If the crashes stop, it is most likely the JIT Compiler, which does not run in Safe Mode, and which can be turned off altogether if necessary.

 

http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/Safe%20Mode

 

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#JIT_compiler

Super Spyware Scolder
crisoco8722
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎05-14-2009

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

Thank you for links SendOfJive. Perhaps I did not make it clear. I have run Firefox in safe mode with Javascript enabled for every site and the crashes still happen (specifically when loading or using those sites I mentioned). I probably confused matters by referring to YesScript disabling those 3 sites but I had managed to get them enabled again for the test. It is a pity that the JIT Compiler does not seem to be the answer. I have an idea to use again RequestPolicy and try blocking those links that are not necessary for the running of each site. It is either RequestPolicy or NoScript but I could not get on with NoScript because it was far too invasive for me. RequestPolicy is less invasive but perhaps I could handle it again. Sorry all this text runs in one paragraph but that is how Opera seems to deal with it. At least it doesn't cause the hassle that Firefox does! I still think it is cpu. Opera doesn't run at quite such high levels as Firefox. Perhaps that is why it doesn't handle the full text facilities that Norton offers. Thanks for your help again.
AMD Athlon XP processor • 2gb ram • Windows 7 Home x32 • Norton Internet Security 2012 • Firefox 8.0.1 • NoScript • Opera 11 • TrafficLight • Site Advisor • Minimem • Sandboxie • Malwarebytes Free • SuperAntispyware Free • CCleaner • WinPatrol, Cobian 10 Backup • TuneUp Utilities 2012 • UltraFileSearch.
Super Spyware Scolder
crisoco8722
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎05-14-2009

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

I think I might have solved the problem.

 

RequestPolicy

I tried RequestPolicy but it didn't have sufficient options to remove the necessary scripts.

 

NoScript

NoScript works brilliantly and allows only the following scripts with no Firefox crashes whatsoever.

 

Norton Forum

2 out of 5 scripts allowed

norton.com

lithium.com

 

Maplin

1 out of 5 scripts allowed

maplin.co.uk

 

Download.cnet.com

2 out of 9 scripts allowed

cbsistatic.com

cnet.com

 

To login to download.cnet.com to post reviews does require extra scripts to run but Opera can be used for this when necessary ......

com.com

scorecardresearch,com

 

The list of links for download.cnet.com is quite amazing (gradually creeps up to around 11 scripts) and it is not surprising that my processor does not like it. It is interesting to watch these links gradually appear and be blocked.

 

This makes a considerable difference to the cpu load / memory and so far seems to have rectified the problem crashes.

 

Tomorrow when I get time I will re-test Firefox 11 and Firefox 12 to see if NoScript cures the problem there as well.

 

I have also solved the problem of not being able to post in Rich Text in Opera and that was due to an AdBlocker. Allowing the page and all was well again.

 

There is a tiny remaining issue with restarting Firefox which sometimes crashes on starting up again. I tried various addons but am not sure which is the best yet. Have settled with Restart 0.0.0.3m to see how it goes but the browser always starts minimized which is a pain. Perhaps when I test Firefox 12 there will be more buttons that are compatible.

 

It has been a long haul but I seem to be getting there slow but sure. I will keep you posted.

AMD Athlon XP processor • 2gb ram • Windows 7 Home x32 • Norton Internet Security 2012 • Firefox 8.0.1 • NoScript • Opera 11 • TrafficLight • Site Advisor • Minimem • Sandboxie • Malwarebytes Free • SuperAntispyware Free • CCleaner • WinPatrol, Cobian 10 Backup • TuneUp Utilities 2012 • UltraFileSearch.
twixt
Posts: 246
Topics: 6
Kudos: 119
Blog Posts: 0
Ideas: 0
Solutions: 13
Registered: ‎09-26-2011

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

[ Edited ]

crisoco8722 wrote:

I think I might have solved the problem.

 

RequestPolicy

I tried RequestPolicy but it didn't have sufficient options to remove the necessary scripts.

 

NoScript

NoScript works brilliantly and allows only the following scripts with no Firefox crashes whatsoever.

 

Norton Forum

2 out of 5 scripts allowed

norton.com

lithium.com

 

Maplin

1 out of 5 scripts allowed

maplin.co.uk

 

Download.cnet.com

2 out of 9 scripts allowed

cbsistatic.com

cnet.com

 

To login to download.cnet.com to post reviews does require extra scripts to run but Opera can be used for this when necessary ......

com.com

scorecardresearch,com

 

The list of links for download.cnet.com is quite amazing (gradually creeps up to around 11 scripts) and it is not surprising that my processor does not like it. It is interesting to watch these links gradually appear and be blocked.

 

This makes a considerable difference to the cpu load / memory and so far seems to have rectified the problem crashes.

 

Tomorrow when I get time I will re-test Firefox 11 and Firefox 12 to see if NoScript cures the problem there as well.

 

I have also solved the problem of not being able to post in Rich Text in Opera and that was due to an AdBlocker. Allowing the page and all was well again.

 

There is a tiny remaining issue with restarting Firefox which sometimes crashes on starting up again. I tried various addons but am not sure which is the best yet. Have settled with Restart 0.0.0.3m to see how it goes but the browser always starts minimized which is a pain. Perhaps when I test Firefox 12 there will be more buttons that are compatible.

 

It has been a long haul but I seem to be getting there slow but sure. I will keep you posted.


 

 

Excellent, excellent research - both in this post and previous.  Well done!  You've got the problem on the run...

 

Some things to check out:

 

1. Browser updates commonly increase execution efficiency.  What this means, is the newer code allows Javascript to run more quickly - which puts stress on the CPU and Memory subsystems at a higher level than older browser code.  Since slow Javascript is a bugbear for all browsers - Firefox has definitely invested time and energy into increasing execution efficiency for Javascript in newer versions - and this has "pushed things over the edge" for you.

 

2. I have a machine on my desk right now that intermittently corrupts files when copying.  This first showed up when comparing the copied files in a Dosbox.  The fact that subsequent runs showed different results indicated memory subsystem instability at high load.  And it was "right on the edge".  Only a continuous run - where the memory modules heated up - would produce the problem.  On the first run of a compare - only a few mismatched bytes were found.  The second run - many more.  This is typical for memory as it heats up - the memory timing must allow memory access to complete properly even when the chips are hot.

 

3. I went into the CMOS parameters and changed the memory timings.  Voila - I can now copy files to my heart's content - and verify them with Comp.exe in a DOSBox - and things are working great.  Porblem solved.  :smileyhappy:

 

 

In your situation:

 

1. Are you running overclocked?  If so, bump things down a notch.  CPU timing requirements also increase as the CPU gets hot - which is why it is necessary to run CPU tests for hours/days to ensure the CPU is stable before accepting an overclock.  It is incorrect to assume an overclock that works properly for only a few hours is stable.  Gradual "bit rot" from disk write errors caused by memory corruption puts the machine at risk - and this is why many enthusiasts end up needing to reinstall their OS - and they find their datafiles corrupt - when their overclock is unstable.

 

2. It is very common for motherboard BIOS timings for both CPU and memory to be incorrect with early BIOS revisions.  This was especially so with the Intel 865/875 and the Nforce2 chipsets - as they were early examples of Dual-Channel boards with PET.  Ensure you are running the latest-'n-greatest BIOS for your motherboard.  This is one of the best ways to ensure that "default" BIOS parameters are valid.

 

3. Even with the latest BIOS, you can still have problems with "performance" memory.  All those memory-timing options in the BIOS are there for a reason - now you know why.  And yes, there are situations where a particular motherboard just doesn't "like" a particular brand/model of memory - and all that can be done is to exchange those memory sticks for a brand/model that is known to work properly with your particular motherboard.

 

4. Research your motherboard on enthusiast websites.  There is no doubt this is where you're going to find the info on the feebles and foibles of your particular motherboard - even if you don't overclock the thing.  There are driver issues (Intel INF updates, for example) that also affect system stability - reading in enthusiast forums for info on your particular configuration (CPU, Motherboard, Memory) is an invaluable asset in figuring out how to get an unstable system to run stably again.

 

5. If nothing else works, post a message in the forum on an enthusiast website - explaining your situation and your system configuration.  Even if you are not overclocking, one of the overclocking experts will still be able to help you with custom memory timings, CPU and memory voltages, and similar adjustments which will increase stability on your system.  For example, it is quite common for "performance" memory to require a slightly higher voltage than "stock" - before that memory gets up and dances like it should.  If you don't know that - and how much to up the voltage - and how much is too much - you'll never get your system to run stably.

 

 

Some sites with forums to check out:  Overclockers.com, Hardware Canucks.  Google "overclocking" for others.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Super Spyware Scolder
crisoco8722
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎05-14-2009

Re: Firefox crashes in Safe Mode with Norton Forum, Download.com & Maplin

Hello twixt,

 

Thank you for your kind comments and support. My goodness you have a wealth of information there and far too much for my digestion. I may appear to have a wealth of knowledge but rest assured it takes me for ever to research things and come up with the answers.

 

I am not into overclocking and everything is as basic as it goes because I just do not have the experience to go meddling with the BIOS and various settings. Your advice to ask in one of the forums is a good idea. When I have more time I will check things out in more depth to see if anything else is amiss.

 

The addon NoScript has been a real benefit. I tested out Firefox 11 and Firefox 12 and they were still unusable. I even tested Pale Moon again but amazingly that crashed on loading the Norton Forum even with NoScript blocking nearly all the scripts. Firefox 10 gave the occasional crash when re-starting so I have had to revert back to my tried and tested Firefox 8.0.1 which is completely stable so far. It even restarts with all the original tabs and no crashes whatsoever.

 

I shall mark this post as solved now unless anything else crops up meantime.

 

Thanks twixt and everyone else who contributed.

 

For now it will be Firefox 8.0.1 with NoScript and Opera 11.64 but unfortunately no Norton Toolbar.

 

On a parting note it is interesting that Opera 11 has never crashed once. It is a great browser.

AMD Athlon XP processor • 2gb ram • Windows 7 Home x32 • Norton Internet Security 2012 • Firefox 8.0.1 • NoScript • Opera 11 • TrafficLight • Site Advisor • Minimem • Sandboxie • Malwarebytes Free • SuperAntispyware Free • CCleaner • WinPatrol, Cobian 10 Backup • TuneUp Utilities 2012 • UltraFileSearch.