05-26-2012 10:10 AM
Got to understand that Time Is Money!
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Except for those who help out here ....... even the majority of Norton Staffers here do this on top of their normal job writing the programs, checking quality, detecting malware .... That's why the Names in Red are so valuable ....
06-02-2012 11:46 PM
This problem (program control causing NIS crash) hit me today. Has it been verified that reverting to NIS 2011 solves it? Is there a specific previous build of 2012 which solves it?
This is VERY unacceptable.
06-03-2012 02:59 AM
I would start adding flames to the fire about this as I am upset about how long this issue has gone on without a fix. But first let me provide things I have tried.
I have tried running in admin mode.
I have tried install 19.5.x.x from www.norton.com/nis12
I have tried adding a few programs to the program rules then, clicking apply shutting down NIS and either rebooting or restarting the app.
I have tried switching the symhtml.dll from the original 2012 install DVD with the current one (6.0.x on disc, 6.5.x on computer) but all it did was wipe clean.
I did the remove and reinstall routine.
I have even made sure IE is the default browser (due to the html)
I have verified my .net installs (I don't have 1.1 since Win7 warns against and 4.5 since it6 is stsill in beta)
It also appears that your are using parts of perhaps google chrome? Could the fact they are updating it to a new version every other day (exaggeration of course) be a possible cause.
I have looked for every remedy on the internet and have not found one. Now the part where I go mean.
Is this problem going to be a "version" upgrade required fix. Meaning you will not solve it or say it will take to much time when you have your 2013 products coming down the pipeline in 3-4 months. So if you want the fix you have to buy the 2013 product.
Also this problem is not just restricted to your 2012 NIS, it is in your AV 2012, your 360 and even your 2013 and appears to have happened in some of the 2011 products. If so that this problem showed up in the 2011 product, why did you not find a way to avoid it for most of your 2012 line up and now your 2013.
Well here is an addendum.
I got a call today from someone who sounded like they knew what they were doing. He assured me that my install was perfect, that all files that should be present from microsoft .net were there and everything from NIS was present. He then said well if it happens again just uninstall and reinstall. I told him that would erase all the program control rules that were setup. He insisted no it wouldn't. He says let me show you how. He took me into the microsoft screen for uninstalling programs and
clicked on the uninstall/change. He says make sure you select the top option, that you plan to reinstall a Norton product and to keep your settings. I informed him that according to Norton and the Norton forums that program control settings ARE NOT SAVED (was polite and didn't yell) but he assured me they would be and I would be able to add to the program control rules. Well somewhere around 280 the crash occured. I did what he said would not delete the data, but guess what HE WAS JUST AS WRONG AS SYMANTEC IS WITH HOW THEY ARE "WORKING" on this problem.
I have been with Norton/Symantec since the days of floppy disc, blue in the corporate colors and Peter Norton appeared on the box. It seems every year Symantec just goes farther and farther away from what they once were. Tech support went. Refunds/Upgrades if you just bought a product, well thankfully that worked out. But has anyone been able to get tech support that didn't follow what seems to be a script. I have been assured that tech support is fully trained and do not follow a "script".
The rep said that they have pretty much figured out the issue and will be issuing a patch within about a month as they need to fully test the fix.
I asked the rep what files could I backup on a constant basis so I would lose all my work, he said there were none. I said I think windows 7 64bit sp1 is shutting down too quickly for Symantec to save the log/database or whatever they use to store the program. I was assured that Norton is "constantly" saving the databases/logs or whatever.
Now for those who say why do you need to make your own program control rules, Norton does it for you. well have you noticed how more and more programs take the liberty to sends ads through their programs. Have you noticed how many companies have had to admit to "spying" on its users by taking private data they said is only meant to "improve" what they offer. They figure Google can do it, why can't they. So I don't want to be spammed in a program by ads, by offers, by whatever they try to send through the program, and I also do not want them hiding a clause in the End User Lic. Agreement that says they reserve the right to collect data they assure will not be sold or used for any other purposes. Well they got bought, opps change in EULA, and the new company revises its privacy rules, oh sorry but we decided to market your data to help pay for the purchase of the company. So that is one main reason I CUT programs off in program control.
Also using manual controls where you say allow or block does not work properly. I tried it with apps I knew made internet connection attempts, and caught less than 50%, 40% of what they did catch, they only allowed you to choose to block the current instance and not forever. Oh guess what you can't go into program controls to modify things, because it crashes the program.
Symantec this is pure sloppy on your part. I know you are "innovating" "adapting" "improving" the performance of your program after you were blasted hard about the 2008 or 2009 version (can't remember when they switched to the 2010/2011 model). However test your product more efficiently. That means don't try one change and if it works remain convinced it means the feature works. All customers should be given a license extension who have reported the problem. This problem now is going into what (since 11/2011) so 5 plus months. How many customers don't even know they have this same problem as they perhaps are not as informed about software applications? How many have done reinstalls like instructed only to have the problem return and not know where to look to see if others are having the issue or don't have the time? (sorry I forgot to put ? at the end of my qustions, it was late and right after another failure).
I know your 2011 product works, why? Well I looked at how many rules I had, it was over 2000. So right now you 2012 can only handle about 10% of the rules of 2011. That is a travesty.
I am sorry to norton tech/engineers/mods about being so upset, but how would you feel if you were actually in our shoes and didn't now have the programming or inside knowledge of the software and were told to hold on wait for a fix and by the way you shouldn't have a need to use that feature.
Tim you have been quiet, maybe because you are tired at the mud slinging against you or for some other reason. But how about at least give us a heads up on what Symantec believes the problem might be. All these posters who are having the problem then could provide you an excellent of real world testing to help you. Remember the machines in the office are not the same one your users have at home via their desktop or laptop. So give us something to work on for you and the engineers with an understanding that if it screws your system up that is not Norton's problem. I am sure many people know how to clone their drives so that a damaged windows install can simply be cloned back over or they have test machines of
their own that they can run the test there.
But PLEASE educate/train/instruct your tech support lower level support so they are able to be more capable of handling issues and are informed of issues so they don't waste the customer time online promising a fix only not to even know where a feature is located, despite the customer telling them (my first tech support help spent 3 hours going in circles and then couldn't find the program control I had to move the mouse during his remote session to the feature).
06-03-2012 01:36 PM
That says it all!!!
"All customers should be given a license extension who have reported the problem. This problem now is going into what (since 11/2011) so 5 plus months."
06-03-2012 01:45 PM
I'm having the same issue, found this topic - whenever I try to enter Program Control NIS 2012 crashes and I need to restart the PC.
I've received support mail saying to remove NIS with the removal tool and reinstall, will that help, and has anyone tried reseting Firewall settings in the options...
06-03-2012 02:22 PM
I just emailed McAfee and asked if they were experiencing and of the problems that has been described here.
Anyone here at Norton have any suggestions as to what programs we can use until if and when this ugly bug is fixed?
I am sick and tired of not having the control this product blatantly continues to advertise. A this point I am at a total loss.
AND now... never mind. TheSaber007 Says it all.
06-03-2012 05:01 PM - edited 06-03-2012 05:03 PM
I've been using NIS 2011 for a long time (in 2011 and also after dropping NIS 2012), and it has not caused me any problem even if I continue to add more firewall policies.
Sometimes I wonder if Norton dares to put the problematic NIS 2012 "parts" into NIS 2013. People who are planning to leave Norton might want to consider ESET products. I understand they are techie favorites.
06-03-2012 06:10 PM
prokofjev you asked if:
"I've received support mail saying to remove NIS with the removal tool and reinstall, will that help"
The answer to that is yes and no. Yes it will fix the problem. However it will erase ALL the rules you made. Even based on a tech rep assurance the firewall rules are all erased when you do a reinstall with telling Norton to keep settings (I challenged him on this and he assured me I wouldn't lose the rules despite what they themselves and this forum has said). So you will have to re-enter all your rules again. So that is why I said yes and no. However once you hit that limit again, you will of course have the problem return. As you can see I tried several scenarios to see if any were the issue.
Your second ?:
"reseting Firewall settings in the options..."
This lead to just restoring the firewall rules to normal and had no impact on the program controi crash. So I can't tell you at least based on my experience so far whether resetting actually had any impact on the program control settings, since the thing still crashed.
GWM you asked?
" McAfee has seen this issue? "
The standard response from them is that their program will not work correctly with Norton and Norton will tell you the same. Of course you never should have 2 firewall apps active. Mcafee I found to be a great deal more taxing on the system resourses and performance than Norton 2010,2011 and 2012 (when you don't use program control). Maximum PC (Holiday 2011) did a round up of suites. I believe (and this might violate posting rules but this was not meant in the way the rules are mentioning) Bitdefender IS 2012 was rated 9 as was Norton. I will tell you in a test install of Bitdefender it will require you to uninstall any and all av/firewall/security software even if Bitdefender doesn't have that function. Mcafee was a 5, Eset a 6, and webroot which they said will not conflict with other AV's and when it is on sale which it has, you can get the top version for free which includes mobile device protection.
Remember you can always go the way of not adding program rules and instead blocking all internet traffic when using app or apps that you don't want to have access. Of course if you want them to have certain access beyond the all or none, then you will have problems. Also since Norton assures us that the firewall software is working as long as you don't touch program control, you should have your Norton firewall/antispam etc. to protect you (but I would be careful since they have made statements in the past that have proven false both here in the forums and by tech support by chat.
Also the trouble with using something else in the meantime is that when or if Norton ever truly fixes this problem, you will have the issues of trying to completely clear that other program off your system. Since I can't speak for the competition's uninstall or removal tools, it is a shark infested waters and what you jump into might be the mouth of a shark that will require you to have to reinstall your windows due to conflicts or be nice cool water and the program clears with no issues.
About the compensation for the license I doubt they will. They will say how can a customer prove they have the issue on their system. And if almost everyone knows that the program control does the problem will people intentionally cause the issue to gain time added. Wouldn't be fair to base it on just those who posted since some people either don't know about the forums or don't like being involved in forums.
So for me it is pointless to try using Norton at this point or switch to a new product. So my new laptop will have to sit unused since I can''t control any apps on what they do. So a nice 2k+ laptop is a piece of plastic, copper and other metals in a small little rectangular 1 inch high plastic box. I am tired of uninstll, add rules, crash, uninstall reinstall ad naseum. I don't want to drop back to the 2011 version as I am sure it will lead to some conflict in 2012 not to mention doing all the rules twice yet again. SO THANKS NORTON.
06-03-2012 07:25 PM - edited 06-03-2012 07:32 PM
I just emailed McAfee and asked if they were experiencing and of the problems that has been described here.
There is already a lengthy 22-page thread about the ongoing problem with the McAfee Firewall on the McAfee forums. It does not appear to be related to the Norton Firewall issue.