05-01-2008 06:05 AM
First of all - Here are 2 links to my original problems ....
I have started a new thread because I really need to know quickly ....
Do I need to uninstall Norton 360 v 2 ?
This is my latest Problem...
I was preparing to get the Norton 360 v 2 Widget
I made a restore point
And then I decided to use Norton 360 v 2 to do some clean up - Before installing the Widget.
I chose a Custom Scan ....
Network address Check
Windows Temporary Files
Explorer Temporary Files
I ran the scan but something was odd
Twice a box popped up saying Background Scan In Progress .... And one or another of the above list.
Too quick to see exactly which one!
Then as soon as the Custom Scan Finished...
I could tell by my Hard Drive light and CPU meter .... A Full Scan Had Started!
I did get a pop up to tell me it had finished.
But when I looked at the result ........ I Got A Shock!
Not only did it Not catch any Tracking Cookies - ( And I know It should have caught some )
But just look at the result..........
Surely this isn't normal
Can someone tell me please........ Should I uninstall Norton 360 v 2 ?
05-01-2008 06:37 AM
Without visiting any websites except for this one... I've just ran a Quick Scan
Look at the difference in the results..............
The Risk Detected was Tracking Cookies - It caught...... 7
Including ..... 1 Unknown Tracking Cookie
There is something very wrong ....... Isn't there?
05-01-2008 06:38 AM
hi Zana - very odd indeed... i think you definitely should do an eicar test. save the text string from this doc to notepad and try to save:
360 should catch it and it should show up in your 'what i've done for you lately' report (Tasks/View Stats). that will at least confirm that the real-time component is still functioning. i'd recommend uninstalling / reinstalling immediately if it fails that test.
05-01-2008 07:12 AM - edited 05-01-2008 07:13 AM
I think I should just take it out .... Before I end up in a worse mess
I don't know anything about eicar tests .
And as I don't have much luck with computers .... I think I should stick with what I know.
I've just looked in my Norton account ...
And noticed it still says Norton 360 .. Rather than .. Norton 360 v 2
Can someone tell me if this is normal please?
I updated from 360 v 1 to 360 v 2 but the original product key would be for 360 v 1
What should it say in my account?
Do both versions of Norton 360 only show as Norton 360 in our accounts ?
OR ............ Should it say Norton 360 v 2 ?
05-01-2008 02:33 PM
The key will just say the product. Because of our software as a service model, there is no need for the version in your Norton Account to be updated with respect to Norton 360. With this service model, all that is required is an active subscription tied to a key and you are entitled to whatever the latest version of that product is.
05-03-2008 07:49 AM - edited 05-03-2008 07:53 AM
Thank You! For answering my Account / Product Key question
I have Uninstalled and Reinstalled Norton 360 v 2 for the 4th and final time
If Norton misbehaves again.... I'll Blitz it Forever!
This time I decided to try my absolute best...
To make sure I cleared my computer of old bits of Norton before reinstalling.
First I uninstalled the Normal way - Then I used the Norton Removal Tool
I think I should have gone straight for the Removal Tool.
Even though it does take out my card reader - Another Story!
I then ran CCleaner to look for left over Norton registry keys.
CCleaner found 17
Then I searched my computer for left over Norton folders
I found lots of Norton folders - Old & New
Some folders were dated as being created or modified on the exact dates of my 3 previous installs and uninstalls.
And there were folders dated for my 4th uninstall.
I deleted these folders and ran CCleaner again ............ Approx - Another 70 to 80 registry keys!
I also used CCleaner to clean my Windows temporary Files.
So you would think, I would have a nice clean reinstall of Norton 360 v 2 ... Wouldn't you?
When I reinstalled 360 v 2 ....
I wasn't asked for my product Key or my account details.
Norton simply confirmed how many days I had left on my subscription.
I wasn't told to Restart the computer either
So obviously Norton had found my account / subscription details somewhere on my computer
With all this constant Norton 360 v 2 Installing and Uninstalling.
And I think with the way Norton 360 v 2 almost blows up my Core 2 Quad CPU when it does a Full Scan ...
My Vista Reliability Index Score has gone from being a daily score of around 9.95 to 9.90
To now being a daily score of around 5.50 to 5.00
It started dropping the day I installed Norton 360 v 2
And it's just gone down, and down, and down - With each reinstall of 360 v 2
With my card reader problem , my Intel problem, and my Reliability score dropping .....
If this carries on!
I'd say Norton 360 v 2 is capable of doing just as much damage as a virus
And for a security product to be not working properly ... But yet not indicate it's not working -
We pay Symantec good money for our Norton software
The last thing it should do is cause damage to our computers.
Perhaps if computer manufacturers stopped preinstalling it on computers ...
Future installs wouldn't be such a problem
On 2 computers - Both XP and Vista -With Norton Software preinstalled ...
I have found that I can not move on, beyond the year of the product that was preinstalled.
This computer had a trial of Norton Internet Security 2007 preinstalled.
So I was able to use Norton 360 v 1 ........Because it was created in the same year.
But will my computer get on with 360 v 2 - Doesn't Seem So .... Does It?
Maybe if Symantec made it easier to uninstall their software.
Or maybe if they made a decent Removal Tool - That didn't damage other software on peoples computers.
Maybe.... Norton would be considered the best.
But I've had enough....
I've already lost one computer - I'm not going to lose another!
Sorry to rant Erik!
I know it's not your fault
But computers cost so much money .... Norton is supposed to protect them - Not Kill Them!
Anymore funny business from Norton ..... And that's the end!
05-08-2008 07:11 AM - edited 05-08-2008 07:27 AM
Just so you know where I'm at....
I'm sorry to report - Norton 360 v 2 is out for good!
I tried one last time to get Norton 360 v 2 to work .... But still I had problems!
It appeared to work fine for the first 24 hours
Not only did I start getting the same - Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working
Error message showing up in Problem Reports and Solutions - History
But for some reason the messages were not getting reported to Microsoft anymore.
I turned on the computer and got a message from Windows - Saying Something about....
A driver for ACPIIRQ Holder could not be found.
After turning the computer off and on again... The message did not return!
It was very obvious - Norton 360 v 2 was causing big problems!
When I uninstalled Norton 360 v 2 for the last time ...
I decided to go straight for the Kill - The Norton Removal Tool!
Now I think I was right the other day when I uninstalled 360 v 2 the Normal way first.
I don't think the Norton Removal Tool has been Updated for the latest version / Installation files of Norton 360 v 2
Or am I wrong about this?
The reason I think this!
I found so much of Norton left behind on my computer ...
I can't see how the Removal Tool ...
Could possibly have been updated to remove the latest version / Installation files of 360 v 2
And Don't Forget!
Each time I use the Norton Removal Tool ...
I have to keep reinstalling my Card Reader - Because the Removal Tool keeps removing my card readers driver
I ran the Norton Removal Tool - Twice!
Then I used CCleaner to clean the Registry of just what I could see obviously belonged to Norton 360 - Nothing Else!
Then I searched for Norton / Symantec Files and Folders - And Deleted Them!
Then I ran CCleaner again.
NOTE : In between all this .... At various points - I made Restore Points and Rebooted the computer.
Thinking I had finally removed all I could of Norton 360 v 2 ...
I was just about to install my new security - When I thought! ....
" I'll just check CCleaners program uninstaller. Just to see whats listed in there "
What do you think I found?
Yes! - Norton 360
It didn't show as listed there - When I removed Norton 360 v 2 the normal way last week.
So I thought....
Maybe it just needs deleting - And tried to delete it!
I got a message saying it couldn't be deleted.
So I decided to click - Uninstall.
I got a message saying something about - MUI and setup
I had to click cancel to something ... But I think I was clicking Cancel to an Install Not Uninstall.
Are you confused Yet?
I know I am!
At that stage I decided It was best to stop looking for Norton and using CCleaner.
I got scared I was doing things that could get me in a worse mess
After that ... I really thought I'd blown it!
I Turned The Computer OFF & Turned Back ON
The computer took ages to start Up
But when I went into Media Center - Guess What it said?
Some thing like this....
" Sym Ad On Could Not start! Do you wish to disable it? "
I said - Yes!
Could this be how Norton 360 v 2 broke Media Center / Intel Viiv Software - With it's Media Center Ad On?
Re : MUI
I did notice that when the Removal Tool got to the part called MUI it stayed there for ages.
NOTE : I did not use CCleaners uninstaller to remove The Norton 360 v 2 program.
............ I have never used CCleaner's program uninstaller to remove any program.
I really am sad that I will not be able to use Norton 360 v 2
But no matter how hard I tried to remove previous installations ...
Obviously something is getting left behind on my computer
Unless someone has a magic answer .... I really can't see what more I could possibly do.
So now I have to cope with security I nether particularly like or understand
But at least it works!
05-08-2008 08:08 AM
A couple items and questions Zana as I think there may be some confusion as to what is actually happening on your system.
The "Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working" item is definitely a crash worth investigating. The fact that you are also seeing an ACPI IRQ Holder could not be found error tells me that there are some bad drivers on your system. I'm assuming that this is a Windows Vista machine. Keep in mind that there are still a lot of drivers that are not fully vista logo certified. I would recommend going into device manager to check for any "Problem Devices". I would recommend downloading the latest driver for that device, then uninstalling the device driver and installing the latest. This is more than likely what was contributing to your Reliability Index Score to decrease.
The Crash could have multiple causes, and the fact that you are also receiving driver warnings leads me to the problem being at a driver level. Uninstall and reinstall will not fix that. You do have some other problems related to uninstall, and we'll look at that next.
As to why CCleaner would see something, this leads me to believe that there may be a permissions problem on the Uninstall key within the registry. When that happens, there will be orphaned items left behind after an uninstall. The prompts you received after clicking "uninstall" through CCleaner sound like an MSI repair prompt. This means the Uninstall GUID reference still exists in the registry and is attempting to launch our MSI script to uninstall. Keep in mind that CCleaner isn't actually cleaning up left behind registry entries. It's looking for items that are pointing to things that no longer exist. This is similar to one of the functions that Windoctor does. What this means is that while the files being referenced no longer exist on the machine, there are remnant registry entries for these ActiveX/COM/etc items. There are a couple reasons why this happens. One would be a bad/incomplete uninstall routine/removal tool, but I can assure you that this is not the case. The Norton Removal Tool and it's uninstall routine both take into account the removal of any of these items upon uninstall. Another cause, and the most likely cause, is a problem with permissions or interference with the data stream for the actions performed. If permissions are corrupt, becoming corrupt, or interference is occurring; actions that you perform on a system can have unintended consequences. The fact that you see the Norton Removal Tool (SymNRT) appear to hang at a certain point definitely reveals to me that there are environmental concerns contributing to the problems occurring on your system.
As to the "broke my Media Center/Intel Viiv Software" comment, I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here unless you are referring to the general problems you are experiencing. The Media Center add on is what allows our software to display properly on Media Center Edition when you are in the special MCE viewing mode and are using your remote.
What I recommend we tackle first is your drivers. This very well could be why the card reader encounters a problem after running SymNRT. SymNRT removes Norton items from the system as well as one driver set that is used by certain programs to burn to CD/DVD. This is the only area of the computer that can be a shared area that is touched. The upper and lower filters for your CD/DVD drive. It sounds like your card reader might be touching the CD/DVD drive (which is extremely odd). I believe that if we first address the problem drivers on your system that we will be successful in addressing the problems you are experiencing.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
05-08-2008 11:46 AM - edited 05-08-2008 11:55 AM
Thanks for the advice!
But as I had no problems with my computer before Norton 360 v 2 ...
I really don't think it's my computer that has the problem - It's Norton 360 v 2
My computer was brand new in October
And I don't simply mean it was bought new from the shop.
It was the latest model!
HP m9070.uk - Vista Home Premium
Core 2 Quad CPU
500GB Hard Drive
My Printers Driver that Windows supplied me with.
One driver for a USB wireless Adapter
And one driver for a Sony Walkman MP3 player
I have not added any other drivers myself!
NOTE : I have disabled the Wireless USB device in favour of the computers built in wireless.
I keep the USB adapter installed...
1/ because it's already in.
2/ Just in case I should ever need it.
Both have lived happy together since the first day.
Re : Preinstalled Drivers
The rest of the drivers on my computer ( Including my 15 in 1 Card Reader driver ) came preinstalled.
However - HP has updated some of my drivers.
The updated drivers are...
My built in wireless
My DVD / CD drive
My Graphics Card
NOTE : Norton 360 v 2 had been installed just over one week ....
When HP presumably by accident, sent me the same Graphics Card driver update that they had just the week before.
I didn't realise it was the same driver until it was too late - And the computer went belly up
I had to do approx 4 System Restores to get my Computer back to normal.
But by then .... Norton 360 v 2 was reporting - Internal Error!
Because of the problems with the Graphics card driver....
That's what made me look in - Problem Reports and Solutions - History
And what a good job I did look!
Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working
Was listed for almost every day I'd had Norton 360 v 2 installed
There had been something wrong with Norton 360 v 2 form the very beginning .... I just hadn't known about it!
But within a few hours Norton Home / Network map and other Norton things kept freezing
Windows was actually telling me this time....
Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working
I restarted the computer and things seemed fine.
The next day Norton 360 v 2 started a Full Background Scan.
Half way through the scan - Windows told me .... " Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working "
I uninstalled and Reinsatlled again
This time .... Not just using the Removal tool
I installed CCleaner and used it to help get rid of left over registry keys.
This time - Just like the first Install .... Norton seemed Fine!
But then a few days later- Once again....
Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working
Started showing up in Problem Reports and Solutions - History
At this point I realised why Windows wasn't alerting me to these Norton problems.
It was only happening as the computer shutdown.
At first I decide to just live with this problem ... As Norton seemed OK while the computer was on.
But then I noticed there was strange things going on
Unexpected scans while I was already using Norton.
And very odd Scan Results.
So as you know ..... I tried one last time to clean Norton out and Reinstall .... But It didn't work!
Before Norton 360 v 2 my Reliability Index Score never ever dropped below 9. something!
The day I installed Norton 360 v 2 it shows as down to 8. Something!
With each and every install and uninstall of Norton 360 v 2 .... The score has gone down and down and down!
Also since Installing Norton 360 v 2 I've had problems with Intell Viiv software error message.
when I use Media Center...
Intel Alert Service Stopped Working
And the one single error message about ACPIIRQ Holder
All in all.... The computer has seemed very stressed!
Since I've uninstalled Norton 360 v 2 and replaced it with alternative security software...
Despite the fact that I'm upset because I liked Norton 360 v 2....
My computer has had no new error messages.
And seems to slowly be recovering!
I guess what I like and the computer likes are 2 different things
I think you know Eric as well as I do ...
That the - Symantec Service Framework Stopped Working - Error message Isn't New!
It started with the release of Norton Internet Security 2008 and is obviously now showing itself with Norton 360 v 2
As well as the problem already being reported here on this forum by other people.
Here is something very similar : http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19432492-NIS2008-
Wouldn't you say?
Maybe one day I'll try again with Norton.
But for now .... It's Good By!
05-08-2008 12:07 PM - edited 05-08-2008 12:07 PM
I'm saddened that your leaving. I just wanted to comment for you one last time.
"Symantec Service Framework" is a main component that our products use. Just because it has a problem one time, does not mean it's having the same problem everytime. The link you referenced was for a very specific root cause. Keep in mind with error messages that there is usually more than one cause.
As for drivers, you would not normally manually install a driver. A lot of devices Windows has either a generic driver for, or as a part of a software installation the driver is automatically installed.
Reinstalling the same driver should not have caused a problem. It sounds like the driver for the card is still bad. As for the internal error you encountered after running system restore, that was caused by the link to the virus definitions broken by System Restore. Running LiveUpdate and restarting would have solved that. You should have received a "Norton 360 has encountered an internal problem" message with an option to click Yes. That would have pointed you to this solution.
The entries where the framework has stopped does not mean that there was an actual problem. It just means that the service has stopped. That could have easily been having difficulty stopping the service on shutdown. Once you actually saw the message come up, then the framework was actually crashing.
I don't think things have fully recovered from the bad driver install. If this truly was a problem caused by Norton 360 v2, then you would have seen it before the driver problem occured.