10-12-2011 03:53 PM
Brian_K wrote:
Ghost 15 would have no difficulty in imaging/restoring your and topdog5's computers. I know I'd get it right 100% of the time. Ghost doesn't have a problem doing this at all. But I'll bet many people will do the restore incorrectly and get a non loading Win7. Is that Ghost's fault, Win7's fault or the User's fault. I'd say the User's fault as they made incorrect restore choices. People need a lot more OS understanding with Win7 than with WinXP restores. And it's related to the positioning of the booting files.
This is a nonsense argument. Either Ghost works properly out of the box for such environments using special partitions or it doesn't. It has nothing to do with the user, Windows or the OEM. Ghost should in it's most basic form do a complete backup of a hard drive with all the partitions on it regardless of the type. Is this not possible? I understand there is a need by some expert users to alter the way backups and restores can be done but I'm referring to a sort of single button full backup and restore of the whole drive; no adjustments or changes, except with the option to automatically extend a partition to a different size if a larger hard drive is used for the target. That's all a typical user needs most of the time to recover from a hard disk failure. I'm not asking for a bare metal solution such as Clonezilla, which I have used successfully. I'm just asking for a solution that works as expected and advertised for non-expert computer users.
10-12-2011 03:54 PM
TIM,
I'm not keen on Skype. The following instructions are slightly adapted from TeraBye. Where they refer to SRP you can substitute your WinRE...
Solution:
Copy the Windows 7 booting files to the Windows 7 partition, apply the necessary BCD file corrections, and (optionally) remove the System Reserved partition.
Note: If you are using Windows 7 Ultimate/Enterprise and are using (or plan to use) BitLocker, do not remove the System Reserved partition.
Note: These instructions assume that the Windows 7 partition is a primary partition. If Windows 7 is installed to a logical partition, removing the System Reserved partition will most likely result in a non-booting system unless using a boot manager such as BootIt BM.
Instructions:
Part 1 - Copy the Booting Files and Configure the Windows 7 Partition for Booting
Boot into Windows 7.
To allow access to the System Reserved partition, use Disk Management to assign a drive letter to it:
Click the Start button.
Right-click on Computer.
Click on Manage in the pop-up menu. Computer Management will open.
Click on Disk Management in the tree on the left side.
Right-click on the System Reserved partition and select Change Drive Letter and Paths... from the pop-up menu.
Click the Add button.
An available drive letter will automatically be selected. You can keep it or select a different one. When finished, click the OK button. In this example, P: will be assigned to the System Reserved partition.
Leave the Computer Management window open (it will be needed again in later steps).
Note: If an AutoPlay window pops up, just close it.
Click the Start button and then on Computer to open Explorer.
Make note of the drive letter assigned to the System Reserved partition and the letter assigned to the Windows 7 partition. In this example, C: is the Windows 7 partition and P: is the System Reserved (booting) partition.
Note: It's a good idea to give the partitions meaningful labels. This can help you tell them apart more easily. For example, the label for the Windows 7 partition might be Win7. This can be especially helpful when trying to tell which partition is which from the Command Prompt.
Close Explorer once you've determined the drive letter assignments.
Start an Administrator mode Command Prompt. To do this, click on the Start button, then All Programs, then Accessories. Right-click on the Command Prompt item and select Run as administrator from the pop-up menu. If a UAC prompt is displayed, click the Yes button.
Unload the BCD registry hive by running the following command:
reg unload HKLM\BCD00000000
Copy the bootmgr file from the Vista (booting) partition to the Windows 7 partition (make sure to use the drive letters as assigned on your computer). Run the following command:
robocopy p:\ c:\ bootmgr
Copy the Boot folder from the Vista (booting) partition to the Windows 7 partition. Run the following command:
robocopy p:\Boot C:\Boot /s
The booting files have now been copied. If you wish to verify that they were copied correctly, run the following command (make sure to use the drive letter of the Windows 7 partition):
dir c:\ /ah
If the bootmgr file and the Boot folder show up in the list, the procedure was successful.
To update the copied BCD file so it will boot correctly, run the following command:
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {bootmgr} device partition=C:
Note: If your Windows 7 partition is assigned a letter other than C:, make sure to use that value instead.
Note: If you are using BootIt BM, you can use the BCD Edit feature to update the BCD file instead of running the above command. See Part 2 - Step 3 for details.
Close the Command Prompt window.
Remove the drive letter assignment from the System Reserved partition and set the Windows 7 partition as the Active (booting) partition.
Return to Disk Management (in the Computer Management window).
Right-click on the System Reserved partition and select Change Drive Letter and Paths... from the pop-up menu.
Click the Remove button.
Click the Yes button to confirm the change.
Right-click on the Windows 7 partition and select Mark Partition as Active from the pop-up menu.
Click the Yes button to confirm the change. You should see the Active tag move from the System Reserved partition to the Windows 7 partition.
Close the Computer Management window.
Windows 7 should now be configured to boot properly from its own partition.
Part 3 - Remove the System Reserved Partition
Note: This part is optional. Removing the partition will only gain 100MB of unallocated space. However, it will free up one primary partition slot.
Deleting the partition can be done from either Windows Disk Management or BootIt BM.
Using Disk Management:
If Windows 7 hasn't been rebooted since the completion of the Part 1 instructions, reboot Windows 7. It should boot normally.
Start Disk Management (reference Part 1 - Steps 2a through 2d, if necessary).
Verify that the Windows 7 partition is now tagged as both the System and the Active partition. The System Reserved partition should just be tagged as Primary Partition.
Right-click on the System Reserved partition.
Select Delete Volume... from the pop-up menu.
Click the Yes button to confirm the deletion.
The space used by the System Reserved partition should now be shown as Unallocated.
10-12-2011 03:59 PM
Brian_K wrote:TIM,
I'm not keen on Skype. The following instructions are slightly adapted from TeraBye. Where they refer to SRP you can substitute your WinRE...
Thanks Brian, I will keep this for my future reference. However, do you really expect normal users with minimal computer experience to use such a procedure let alone understand it? No way! This is for expert users only.
10-12-2011 04:36 PM - edited 10-12-2011 04:36 PM
It does look frightening. I've made a batch file that will do most of it with a double click. If you are interested here it is...
@echo off
reg unload HKLM\BCD00000000
robocopy p:\ c:\ bootmgr
robocopy p:\Boot c:\Boot /s
dir c:\ /ah
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {default} device partition=c:
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {default} osdevice partition=c:
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {bootmgr} device partition=c:
bcdedit /store c:\boot\bcd /set {memdiag} device partition=c:
echo.
pause
10-12-2011 04:41 PM
Hi BRIAN...Thanks but no thanks this is for someone with a degree in Quantm mechanics...for someone with basic computer know how like most of us out here then this is beyond them...i feel Norton need to get a grip of all this and realise that if they are selling backup software then simple instructions need to be on the box for restoring a full backup...otherwise people are going to press or eliminate some of the more important functions and cause major problems to there computers.
TIM
10-12-2011 04:50 PM - edited 10-12-2011 04:54 PM
topdog5 wrote:Hi BRIAN...Thanks but no thanks this is for someone with a degree in Quantm mechanics...for someone with basic computer know how like most of us out here then this is beyond them...i feel Norton need to get a grip of all this and realise that if they are selling backup software then simple instructions need to be on the box for restoring a full backup...otherwise people are going to press or eliminate some of the more important functions and cause major problems to there computers.
TIM
I agree 100%. It's what I've been saying all along. I have been a computer geek for over 30 years now and I always used Ghost almost since its inception. I now understand that Ghost is not really targeted for the non-computer person. I will not recommend Ghost to typical users who have very little computer experience (like Mac users, right? :-) but instead use computers to perform a necessary function just like any other tool, which are clearly in the majority. Even my son who is in the IT software industry has little knowledge about how computers work, nor does he want to or need to know. He just writes computer programs and database procedures. It's a lot like driving cars. Most drivers don't have anything but a very scant knowledge of how a car works and don't want to know either, especially the modern cars of today. Computers are going the same way. They are getting more and more complex yet more versatile, functional and easier to use. The day will come when computers are just a "black box" for general users, and the vast majority of users will have no knowledge of how it works, simply because they don't need to and they just want to use it as a tool for their needs. That's one reason why Macs are becoming more and more popular. I'll have to now research the backup software market place and see which ones are more suitable for the general population. Meanwhile, I'll probably continue to use Ghost as I understand most of the idiosyncrasies.
10-12-2011 04:56 PM
TIM,
I'll think you will find all imaging apps need to be used "correctly" when you are restoring Win7 images with booting files in another partition. Ghost 15 isn't any more difficult to use than the others. But I agree better instructions are needed although I really doubt this will happen. Ghost 15 can't do entire drive image/restore. Red and I have discussed the need for this as it does make image/restore a much easier procedure for newcomers to imaging apps. Hardly any Options need to be chosen. On the other hand, I'd rarely use it but many folks might have a preference for entire drive images.
I don't suggest you restore images to your computer on a test basis. It's too dangerous if you are inexperienced but I would boot from the Ghost CD and run a Verify on your image. If it verifies it will almost certainly restore. If you do have to do a real restore then the Options are in this link. Use the SRP options for your WinRE.
http://community.norton.com/t5/Other-Norton-Produc
As you can see, the Win7 partition is NOT the Active partition. That's a common mistake. But if the booting files are in the Win7 partition then the Win7 partition IS the Active partition. Simple isn't it?
10-12-2011 04:58 PM
Hi There..If you get info on some simple to use and effective software then let me know also as I am now very nervous of NORTON ghost 15 and ever using it at all to restore my OS...I thought it was there for an emergency but now realize it causes an emergency and utter confusion amongst your average user...TIM
10-12-2011 05:08 PM
topdog5 wrote:Hi There..If you get info on some simple to use and effective software then let me know also as I am now very nervous of NORTON ghost 15 and ever using it at all to restore my OS...I thought it was there for an emergency but now realize it causes an emergency and utter confusion amongst your average user...TIM
I'm going to download Acronis® True Image™ Home 2012 for testing. On the face of it it has more advanced features than Ghost and promises true bare metals backup. This should mean it will backup and restore a whole hard drive "as is"., sort of like cloning but to and from a backup file.
10-12-2011 05:14 PM
Acronis True Image will do a whole drive clone from the boot CD. That's nice. But have a look at the Acronis Forum and you will see similar gripes to what you see here. True Image 2008 seems to be the favourite version. Apparently the least buggy.
