02-07-2013 09:36 PM
Ender - it is a database of some sort by the look of things. Not every men's rights site is banned, just a great many. It seems newish sites/blogs are not on the banned list, only established ones, hence it's doubtful that anything tag related is causing this.
02-08-2013 05:54 AM - edited 02-08-2013 06:19 AM
I'm not sure about the rest of them, but avoiceformen is absolutely not family friendly. The following is a selection of quotes from the site. Three of them are by the founder of the site and its primary submitter of content. They are not user-submitted comments. They are from actual published articles.
"I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of **bleep**ing your **bleep** up gives me an erection."
"I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living **bleep** out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the
wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess."
"But are these women asking to get **bleep**d?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET **bleep**D.
They are freaking begging for it.
**bleep** near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses **bleep** won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING **bleep** – PLEASE **bleep** ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads."
"Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the **bleep** out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the **bleep** out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets."
They frequently refer to feminist news organizations as "the c***-o-sphere".
They run a sister site called "register her" which is a site for collecting a list of women to stalk and harass online.
Here are some other relevant links regarding their family friendlyness. Note that you will need to disable safe seach for the full effect.
edit: I have just noticed that several of my URLs do not work because they contain slurs that these forums censor. That in itself should tell you everything you need to know about why avoiceformen is not family friendly - even linking to it violates the civility of these forums.
Given that level three filtering is about protecting children from objectionable content, and this site is run by an editor who advocates the r***, beating, and cyberstalking of women, and is big enough that it caught the attention of the SPLC, it should probably remain blocked.
edit 2: I have shortened the offending URLs. I hope that is acceptable. I realize that URL shorteners are frowned upon in the security community.
02-08-2013 08:22 AM
They run a sister site called "register her" which is a site for collecting a list of women to stalk and harass online.
SPLC never labelled AVFM as a hate site, they merely criticised it and have already backtracked from that article you linked to. Furthermore, even if they did (which they dcertianly did not) then who cares becasue they've labeled plenty of legitimate opponents as "hate sites" simply for haivng opinions SPLC disagrees with.
As for your second point, register-her is actually used to expose female criminals, the sort of people who stalk and harass other people and deny them basic human rights. The only organisaiton mentioned in these threads which publishes lists known to be used to stalk and harass peopel is actually the SPLC, with their defamatory hate site map now on record as used by left wing terorists to carry out attempted mass murder of their opponents.
02-08-2013 09:32 AM
That's interesting, here are some quotes by renowed feminist and feminists organizations showing the movement is not "family friendly." Matter of fact, manyy of them want to destroy the family.
"The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." -- Linda Gordon
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the **bleep**work that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan
"I claim that **bleep** exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
-- Robin Morgan
From her "The Demon Lover" (NY: Norton & Co., 1989 Morgan doesn't hide her bigotry):
* p. 138-9: The phallic malady is epidemic and systemic... each individual male in the patriarchy is aware of his relative power in the scheme of things.... He knows that his actions are supported by the twin pillars of the State of man - the brotherhood ritual of political exigency and the brotherhood ritual of a sexual thrill in dominance. As a devotee of Thanatos, he is one with the practitioner of sado-masochistic "play" between "consenting adults," as he is one with the rapist.
* p. 224: My white skin disgusts me. My passport disgusts me. They are the marks of an insufferable privilege bought at the price of others' agony.
* p. 229: Sex to this point in my life has been trivial, at best a gesture of tenderness, at worst a chore. I couldn't understand the furor about it.
* p. 316: Did she die of the disease called "family" or the disease called "rehabilitation", of poverty or drugs or pornography, of economics or sexual slavery or a broken body?
"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed ****ED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no alternative--for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not your mothers".
-- Robin Morgan
"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo."
-- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto
"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex."
-- Valerie Solana, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men.)
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."
-- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Marriage as an institution developed from **bleep** as a practice." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin
"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice." -- Andrea Dworkin
Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin
"To be **bleep**able, a position that is social, not biological, defines what a woman is." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Q: People think you are very hostile to men.
A: I am." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men use the night to erase us." -- Andrea Dworkin
"The annihilation of a woman's personality, individuality, will, character, is prerequisite to male sexuality." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives."
-- Andrea Dworkin
"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it 'Her'. Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination."
-- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women
"On the Left, on the Right, in the Middle; Authors, statesmen, thieves; so-called humanists and self-declared fascists; the adventurous and the contemplative, in every realm of male expression and action, violence is experienced and articulated as love and freedom."
-- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women.
"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"**bleep** is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller; Authoress of Against Our Will p.6
"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." -- Sheila Jeffrys
"Politically, I call it **bleep** whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs."
-- Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is **bleep** because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."
-- Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.
"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress
"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo."
-- Jodie Foster; Actress - as quoted in The New York Times Magazine.
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.
"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference."
-- Susan Griffin, **bleep**: The All-American Crime.
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.
"If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them." - David Angier
"Men who are unjustly accused of **bleep** can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can **bleep** women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE."
-- Marilyn French (her emphasis)
02-08-2013 09:34 AM
Looks like many words have been censored in these quotes, that should tell us something. Let's continue...
My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
-- Marilyn French; The Woman's Room.
"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey."
-- Marilyn French
"All men are rapists and that's all they are"
-- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)
"The media treat male assaults on women like **bleep**, beating, and murder of wives and female lovers, or male incest with children, as individual aberrations...obscuring the fact that all male violence toward women is part of a concerted campaign."
-- Marilyn French
"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."
-- Barbara Jordan; Former Congresswoman.
"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."
-- Germaine Greer.
"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence."
-- Judith Levine; Authoress
"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to ****/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.'
-- Judith Levine, (explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.)
"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with--husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers."
-- Judith Levine, Authoress of My Enemy, My love
"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes **bleep**, foot binding, fellatio, intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, **bleep** intercourse, use and production of pornography, cunnilingus, sexual harassment, and murder."
-- Judith Levine; summarizing comment on the WAS document, (A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.)
"All men are good for is ****ing, and running over with a truck".
Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.
((Delaney Nickerson, of the American Coalition for ABUSE AWARENESS, refers to the False Memory Syndrome Foundation as "The ****ing Molesters Society". (Miami Herald, April 3, 1995) The ACAA is a lobbying group, which includes Ellen Bass (co-author of THE COURAGE TO HEAL), and Rene Frederickson, leading feminist psychotherapist and strong proponent of repressed memory theory.))
((At the STONE ANGELS satanic ritual abuse conference in Thunder Bay in February, 1995, the following was contained in the handouts at a conference supported financially by the Ontario Government: FMS stands for: FULL OF MOSTLY **bleep**; FOR MORE SADISM; FELONS, MURDERERS, SCUMBALLS; FREQUENT MOLESTERS SOCIETY.))
"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do."
-- Popular Feminist Graffiti
"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine... What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal.".
-- Sylvia Fraser; Journalist
"We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable."
-- Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women.
Catharine MacKinnon ( ) maintains that "the private is a sphere of battery, marital **bleep** and women's exploited labor." In this way, privacy and family are reduced to nothing more than aspects of the master plan, which is male domination. Democratic freedoms and the need to keep the state's nose out of our personal affairs are rendered meaningless. The real reason our society cherishes privacy is because men have invented it as an excuse to conceal their criminality. If people still insist that the traditional family is about love and mutual aid--ideals which, admittedly, are sometimes betrayed--they're "hiding from the truth." The family isn't a place where battery and marital **bleep** sometimes happen but where little else apparently does. Sick men don't simply molest their daughters, they operate in league with their wives to "breed" them for that purpose.
-- Donna Laframboise; The Princess at the Window; (in a critical explication of the Catharine MacKinnon, Gloria Steinhem et al tenets of misandric belief.)
"If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal--a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students--I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment...of persuading students that women are oppressed"
-- Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.
"Men, as a group, tend to be abusive, either verbally, sexually or emotionally. There are always the exceptions, but they are few and far between (I am married to one of them). There are different levels of violence and abuse and individual men buy into this system by varying degrees. But the male power structure always remains intact."
Message on FEMISA, responding to a request for arguments that men are unnecessary for a child to grow into mature adulthood.
Another posting on FEMISA: "Considering the nature and pervasiveness of men's violence, I would say that without question, children are better off being raised without the presence of men. Assaults on women and children are mostly perpetrated by men whom they are supposed to love and trust: fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, step-fathers."
Both quotes taken from Daphne Patai's excellent critical work, Heterophobia
"At Brandies I discovered Feminism. And I instantly became a convert... writing brilliant papers in my Myths of Patriarchy class, in which I likened my fate as a woman to other victims throughout the ages."
-- Heather Hart 7
Here are 10 reasons why we are concerned about feminism and the National Organization for Women.
1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist" (National NOW Times, January, 1988).
2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage" (feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
3. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world" (Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times, Oct. 10, 1989).
4. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole...patriarch!" (Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine).
5. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women.... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft" (from "The Declaration of Feminism," November, 1971).
6. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinem, editor of MS magazine).
7. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement, solace, and inspiration from real women.... Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," The Humanist, p. 37, July/August 1988.
8. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).
9. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that." (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.
10. "The most merciful thing a large family can to do one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in "Women and the New Race," p. 67).
"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." -- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
From 'A feminist Dictionary; ed. Kramarae and Triechler, Pandora Press, 1985:
MALE:...represents a variant of or deviation from the category of female. The first males were mutants...the male sex represents a degeneration and deformity of the female.
MAN:...an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs to be watched...a contradictory baby-man...
TESTOSTERONE POISONING: ... 'Until now it has been though that the level of testosterone in men is normal simply because they have it. But if you consider how abnormal their behavior is, then you are led to the hypothesis that almost all men are suffering from "testosterone poisoning."
Letter to editor: "Women's Turn to Dominate". "......Clearly you are not yet a free-thinking feminist but rather one of those women who bounce off the male-dominated, male-controlled social structures. Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is: if you don't like it, bad luck--and if you get in my way I'll run you down."
Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia. 9 Feb., 1996.
02-08-2013 09:41 AM - edited 02-08-2013 09:47 AM
ender98, I do not understand how any of those quotes make avoiceformen any less hateful. Please elaborate.
If you feel there are additional websites that need to be blocked along with avoiceformen, it would probably be more productive to start a new topic for them. That way we won't get this discussion stretched off in a thousand different directions.
edit: In fact, none of those quotes appear to be from websites. Why are you spamming up this discussion with unrelated garbage?
02-08-2013 10:01 AM
Some of the quotes are from the National Organization of Women, and the quotes reflect a general minset in the feminist movement, so feminist sites such as N.O.W should be blocked, but why are they not? Why are Men's Rights sites singled out and defamed by Symantec?
I will criticize your post directly soon, but it seems some of what I wanted to say has alreasy been expressed.
02-08-2013 11:32 AM - edited 02-08-2013 11:35 AM
The quotes reflect a general mindset in feminism, whoever labeled all of these men's websites as hate sites generally thought the men's rights movement was hateful. A Voice for Men is the most controversial website out of all of them, their satire, sarcasm, and provocative articles (of which the quotes you mentioned are taken out-of-context) are meant to shock people and draw attention.
A National Coalition for Men is the complete opposite in style - not provocative or inflammatory at all and can not construed as sexist or hateful, so whoever set the policy didn't have justification (based on evidence from a website) to do so showing their action was determined by a belief that the men's rights movement is generally hateful.
But here is one hateful feminist website (radicalhub.com) mentioned by your favorite website A Voice for Men (actual screenshots of hateful posts): http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/radfem-hub-th
N.O.W's documented sexism is more subtle on their websites than in their quotes outside the website, such as seen in this pdf: http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues/family/FamilyL
02-08-2013 12:02 PM
I still don't understand how screenshots of user submitted comments and forum posts from other websites makes avoiceformen suitable for children or mitigates the hatespeech in their articles written by their chief editor and founder.
02-08-2013 12:24 PM - edited 02-08-2013 12:26 PM
Your criticism isn't really pertinent to the thread as you say AVfM isn't "family friendly", there is a strong difference between being labeled as something not family friendly and a hate site. Besides, A Voice for Men's style is vastly different to other men's rights sites that use no profanity.
Besides, the SPLC said this:
"It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false **bleep** accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit. But we did call out specific examples of misogyny and the threat, overt or implicit, of violence."
That's funny, I also pointed out tons of examples of misandry (the hatred of men) and implicit and explicit threats of violence in many quotations from feminists. Besides, the men's rights movement isn't a hate movement according to the SPLC's own words. Moreover, the SPLC conflates murderers such as Anders Breivik with the men's rights movement, yet Anders Breivik had absolutely no affiliation with the movement and was motivated by Islamphobia.
The quotations you used from A Voice for Men are maliciously taken out-of-context, there is no promotion of violence and AVfM have a strong anti-violence policy. Register-her is like the SPLC's "hate map" so citing register-her as a hateful example is ironic. Register-her exposes female criminals, and bigots similar to the ones exposed in the quotations I cited, and there is no evidence to suggest that people are encouraged to stalk and harass the criminals and bigots on register-her.