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Kudos0

unable to successfully install NIS 2010

After multiple attempts by Norton chat support, including taking control of computer and using Norton Removal Tool followed by reinstalling several times -- NIS 2010 will not successfully install.  

Using Windows Vista home premium. Fully up to date.

Norton chat tried for about two hours. I have zero other Symantec products, so there were no interferences. Despite this, Norton help ran Norton Removal Tool many times. They said they'd take it to their next level of support and call me back at an agreed upon time. They never called back. 

Installation failures resulted in errors such as:

module 8504 error 5

module 8504 error 104

I tried then to install going into my Admin acct rather than from my normal user acct (which has Admin priviledges). I get a successful install in my main Administrator account, but then when I go to my normal user account, upon rebooting, NIS crashes every time.

After several hours of this, I have uninstalled and moved on to another product. Luckily I was using a trial installation and was able to cancel the order.

Not happy with Norton. No way I could recommend it. Not worth the hassles.

Replies

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

After multiple attempts by Norton chat support, including taking control of computer and using Norton Removal Tool followed by reinstalling several times -- NIS 2010 will not successfully install.  

Using Windows Vista home premium. Fully up to date.

Norton chat tried for about two hours. I have zero other Symantec products, so there were no interferences. Despite this, Norton help ran Norton Removal Tool many times. They said they'd take it to their next level of support and call me back at an agreed upon time. They never called back. 

Installation failures resulted in errors such as:

module 8504 error 5

module 8504 error 104

I tried then to install going into my Admin acct rather than from my normal user acct (which has Admin priviledges). I get a successful install in my main Administrator account, but then when I go to my normal user account, upon rebooting, NIS crashes every time.

After several hours of this, I have uninstalled and moved on to another product. Luckily I was using a trial installation and was able to cancel the order.

Not happy with Norton. No way I could recommend it. Not worth the hassles.

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

What was your previous set up? Any other security software installed?
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought"
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Previously had ZoneAlarm Internet Security Suite. Uninstalled successfully, including a registry scan for orphaned entries.

Ricardo

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Hi RichardSwe,

I think ZoneAlarm has a removal tool; sometimes, removing security software via only the control panel is not enough, and some leftovers remain stuck in the registry. Did you run such a tool when uninstalling ZoneAlarm?

Your Norton Ladybug.
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

"All that we are is the result of what we have thought"
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

HI Richard,

 

This problem may also happen if Administrator Permissions for certain Symantec Folders/Files are missing. Since you have posted that you are able to install in your main Administrator Account but it is not working in your normal User account with Administrator privilages, I suspect more chance for the problem with permissions.

 

Yogesh

Message Edited by yogesh_mohan on 10-12-2009 12:15 PM
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

I appreciate everyone's ideas and help. However, I don't plan to spend more hours trying to figure out Norton.

The uninstall from Vista did work (surprise) and, as mentioned, a follow up scan of the registry found no remaining ZoneAlarm entries. I have uninstalled ZoneAlarm in the past and this did often fail unless a special tool was used (like Norton does). This time however, the uninstall was very smooth and apparently thorough.

As to permissions differences between Administrator and normal user, I agree this may be a root cause. No error indicated a permissions issue however. 

Sorry but I don't have time now to chase possibilities. I guess my points were that --

* It should not be this hard. Just should not. I think basic installation errors are Norton's issue to resolve and they should have been cleaned out long ago. For instance, why give error messages if they don't act upon them?I gave the help tech the info but it was not used or referred to.

* Norton help was rather helpless - they just stuck to one script of using Norton Removal Tool. Just ran through it repeatedly, hoping it would start working. Higher level call back never happened as promised. I think they don't know.

Again -- Sorry but I don't have time to chase possible causes. I posted so the info was known. I would expect CheckPoint/Norton to chase the issue themselves.

Ricardo

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010


Sorry but I don't have time now to chase possibilities. I guess my points were that --

* It should not be this hard. Just should not. I think basic installation errors are Norton's issue to resolve and they should have been cleaned out long ago. For instance, why give error messages if they don't act upon them?


Ricardo


I have to say I agree.  While occaisionally unexpected things happen, it doesn't make a good first impression when the intial installation fails. I am in the process of researching this same error. But I'm beginning to remember why I stopped using Norton and switched to a different s/w before.  Yes, every s/w has some issues. But it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I can't get through the installation without problems :/ 

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Hi jmTd,

Did you try any of the suggestions on this thread? Did any of them help? What else have you done to try and solve this issue? This will help us so we don't have to have you try things you've already tried.  

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Hi Tim,

I tried most of what was suggested:  uninstall, registry scan, and most recently the removal tool.  My most recent install ran without errors.  I'll give it a few days to see if the errors below reoccur.  They did last time.  ie The installation seemed to work, but the errors popped up a few days later.   I'll post back in a few days with any updates. 

module 8504 error 5
module 8504 error 104

BTW, what do those cryptic error messages mean?

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010


jmTd wrote:

Hi Tim,

I tried most of what was suggested:  uninstall, registry scan, and most recently the removal tool.  My most recent install ran without errors.  I'll give it a few days to see if the errors below reoccur.  They did last time.  ie The installation seemed to work, but the errors popped up a few days later.   I'll post back in a few days with any updates. 

module 8504 error 5
module 8504 error 104

BTW, what do those cryptic error messages mean?


Hi jmTd

Thanks for keeping us updated on your current progress. Let us know in a few days if things are still working OK.

Thanks again

We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace. ~William Ewart Gladstone
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010


RichardSwe wrote:

I appreciate everyone's ideas and help. However, I don't plan to spend more hours trying to figure out Norton.

The uninstall from Vista did work (surprise) and, as mentioned, a follow up scan of the registry found no remaining ZoneAlarm entries. I have uninstalled ZoneAlarm in the past and this did often fail unless a special tool was used (like Norton does). This time however, the uninstall was very smooth and apparently thorough.

As to permissions differences between Administrator and normal user, I agree this may be a root cause. No error indicated a permissions issue however. 

Sorry but I don't have time now to chase possibilities. I guess my points were that --

* It should not be this hard. Just should not. I think basic installation errors are Norton's issue to resolve and they should have been cleaned out long ago. For instance, why give error messages if they don't act upon them?I gave the help tech the info but it was not used or referred to.

* Norton help was rather helpless - they just stuck to one script of using Norton Removal Tool. Just ran through it repeatedly, hoping it would start working. Higher level call back never happened as promised. I think they don't know.

Again -- Sorry but I don't have time to chase possible causes. I posted so the info was known. I would expect CheckPoint/Norton to chase the issue themselves.

Ricardo


Sorry, but I disagree with the basis of your logic.  An application should be able to fix damage it cause, but should not be held responsible for the debris of previous applications.  If an appliance blows a fuse, you wouldn't expect a new appliance to fix that fuse, would you?

At this moment, you don't know why NIS2010 won't install.  In your unsubstantiated opinion, it is Norton's fault, but you have no idea what the installation process is trying to deal with.  Although you may get the idea that this is a common problem, keep in mind that this site exists to solve problems - so what you see here are problems.  Take a count of these problems and compare it to the number of users out there and you will see that very few people seem to have this problem.

Assuming you are right, though, and that Norton is at fault, what Symantec needs is some clue as to how that is the case.  They need good data from willing users, who understand that even though they are volunteering a lot of time, they are contributing to the good of everyone who might use this product in the future.  Armed with that information, Symantec can indeed create a product that can deal with this issue.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Nice sermon.You have some valid points. But after many hours on the phone and giving access to my computer, Symantec support was unable to resolve the problem. They tried installing/uninstalling at least five times, with various attempts to find a cause between. They did not call back at the time they agreed to. 

Symantec also would not explain to me the meaning of the error codes, as the previous posting mentions.

So, in the end, I just don't have time for a piece of software that will not install -- no matter what the cause is.  I don't have time to chase possible causes of Symantec's software being unable to install.

I have found another product that installed easily and has been working well for some time.

Signing off of this thread --

Ricardo

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

To Forum following this thread...

user RichardSwe ~ unable to successfully install NIS 2010


user posted > I would expect CheckPoint/Norton to chase the issue themselves.

Q: Anyone know if user reference to CheckPoint is for CheckPoint Firewall / CheckPoint VPN or ?

     I was curious who or what is CheckPoint....is it a vendor or product or service or ? 

     I was curious who/what is CheckPoint/Norton?

Regards

bjm_

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Just a follow-up, no further reoccurences of the error since my last post.  So that is something I guess ..

I am still wondering about the answer to my earlier question: what do those cryptic error messages mean. Anyone?

Message Edited by jmTd on 11-17-2009 09:51 PM
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Hi bjm

FYI Checkpoint is the maker of ZoneAlarm Firewall and other security programs. For a number of years now, there has been a problem between Norton and CheckPoint-Zone Alarm Firewall.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.2.47 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Hi floplot

Thanks for info....user wrote:

Again -- Sorry but I don't have time to chase possible causes. I posted so the info was known. I would expect CheckPoint/Norton to chase the issue themselves.


CheckPoint/Norton = ZoneAlarm/Norton.   I was thinking user reference to CheckPoint/Norton was maybe a Norton enterprise product or CheckPoint VPN....I completely missed the simple & obvious and went directly to my over thinking place. 

Thanks

bjm_

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

I agree as well. these are Norton issues, we users (from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of skill levels relative to technology) should not have to become our own personal versions of 'tech support'  or 'geek squad'. It should be plug-and-play and as simple as that.  We should not be required to uninstall, reinstall, uninstall again, remove totally, reinstall, find registry errors, try to fix registry errors, etc.  Really that is Norton's job, not ours.  We are simply paying customers who deserve an easier process.
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent"--John Maynard Keynes
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010


Huntress wrote:
I agree as well. these are Norton issues, we users (from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of skill levels relative to technology) should not have to become our own personal versions of 'tech support'  or 'geek squad'. It should be plug-and-play and as simple as that.  We should not be required to uninstall, reinstall, uninstall again, remove totally, reinstall, find registry errors, try to fix registry errors, etc.  Really that is Norton's job, not ours.  We are simply paying customers who deserve an easier process.

So, if you sell someone a couch.

And they take it home in a truck.

And they find it doesn't fit in their front door, which is non-standard in size.

Then it is your responsibility to go to their house, remove the door, remove the stucco or siding, get the couch inside, rebuild the door and fix the damage to the house?

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Very obvious, but still...

For me, over the years, when replacing one security product by that of another company, i practiced this :

1. Normally uninstall the security product with it's own uninstall program from 'Add Remove Programs' or the like

2. Use the 'complete uninstall' routine offered by the company on it's website

3. Clean registry with the tool you like and after that scan the registry on remainders

Using this procedure i never, repeat never, had any trouble of getting the new security program installed and running.

I agree that normal uninstalls should be more complete, but we all know that is never the case, especially with security programs.

With this knowledge you also have an own responsibility on this and....it saves a lot of time following the above procedure! 

Maybe it's time for a sticky on this?

W10 1809 and 1903 / W10 Insider / IE11 and FF 67, TB 60.7, NS 22.17, (Android 7 with NMS)
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

So, if you sell someone a couch.

 

And they take it home in a truck.

 

And they find it doesn't fit in their front door, which is non-standard in size.

 

Then it is your responsibility to go to their house, remove the door, remove the stucco or siding, get the couch inside, rebuild the door and fix the damage to the house?



an absurd analogy...

Stating the obvious, NIS is made to be 'one-size-fits-all".  While couches come in all shapes and sizes,  NIS software does not--there is one 'off-the-shelf' NIS 2010--therefore, it should accommodate the variety of hardware/software configurations of its purchasers without major effort on the part of said purchasers.
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent"--John Maynard Keynes
Kudos2 Stats

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

Well, in all actuallity - coming from a person with a substantial IT and technology-based background - I'd have to say that it isn't EXACTLY an issue for Symantec to have to troubleshoot.

If the previous application(s) were not substantially removed/ uninstalled/ cleaned up after/ executed <insert gunshot, here>, then any FUTURE application may hang; ergo the problem is not the fault of said application, but the original.

....

Fast and ugly version: If the first program did it's job at uninstalling properly, there wouldn't be this issue, to begin with.

To heck with any analogy that is thrown in (though the couch thing WAS pretty freaking funny). This wasn't an issue with Norton, but with the previously (poorly) uninstalled application.

Now it's time for a Guinness and some Family Guy (Neither of which is it ever TOO early for).

Kudos1 Stats

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

RichardSwe wrote: 

Installation failures resulted in errors such as:

module 8504 error 5

module 8504 error 104

...

Symantec also would not explain to me the meaning of the error codes, as the previous posting mentions. 

jmtD wrote: 

module 8504 error 5
module 8504 error 104

BTW, what do those cryptic error messages mean? 

I like the couch-won't-fit-in-the-house analogy.

Using that analogy, in this case the buyer doesn't know why the couch won't fit in the house: can't get through the driveway, can't get in the front door, can't make it up the stairs, or something else? All the buyer is told is two error codes which the seller doesn't/can't explain. The seller apparently doesn't know why the couch won't fit in the house either. The seller's tech support apparently told the buyer to keep trying to get the couch into the house.

The seller does not have to make the couch fit in every house. The buyer is free to choose a couch from a different seller, which is what the OP decided to do.

Wonder what those error codes do mean? If no one wants to find out what they mean, why display those codes to the buyer? 

Kudos3 Stats

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010


Huntress wrote:

So, if you sell someone a couch.

 

And they take it home in a truck.

 

And they find it doesn't fit in their front door, which is non-standard in size.

 

Then it is your responsibility to go to their house, remove the door, remove the stucco or siding, get the couch inside, rebuild the door and fix the damage to the house?



an absurd analogy...

Stating the obvious, NIS is made to be 'one-size-fits-all".  While couches come in all shapes and sizes,  NIS software does not--there is one 'off-the-shelf' NIS 2010--therefore, it should accommodate the variety of hardware/software configurations of its purchasers without major effort on the part of said purchasers.

Hardly absurd.  Simply trying to make obvious what should have been obvious to begin with:  There is no such thing as "one-size-fits-all".  Especially in the case of trying to fit a product to something that is misconfigured to begin with.

There have a few cases where Symantec has been at fault - and they have every time began working on a fix as soon as possible.

But most people who come here upset (even ranting) about how Symantec is to blame for what they are now experiencing, have inevitably turned out to have problems with their system that Symantec could never have anticipated.

Most common has been the presence of conflicting security applications or the artifacts of previous ones.  Since we are talking about numerous products over numerous years with artifacts persisting through numerous updates and modifications, there is no way Symantec could launch some kind of generic clean-up machine to identify and remove every one of those persistent problems.  What happens is that with each removal (assuming they aren't still active), the client has tinkered with the settings to make that product fit in to their machine as it was then configured.  Then, since there were no evident problems, the client assumes that his or her machine is now properly tuned.  Far from it:  They have merely succeeded in making the initial configuration errors invisible.  Exacerbating the problem is that with each new application they introduce, and tinker with, they further cover up the original problems.

Then they put on a machine-sensitive program like NIS and everything goes wrong.  The machine-sensitive is not an accident of design; it is a necessity.  NIS must not only block incoming threats, it must identify issues as they begin to occur; it must be sensitive to the machine.  Had NIS been present before the original applications had been put on the machine, it would never have allowed the various tinkerings to be put in place; and the machine might have been a lot better.  But that wasn't the case.  Instead the machine is malfunctioning at a level the user is not aware of, but which NIS finds it cannot integrate with.  And then you have the problems.

When the client is willing to accept that that might be the issue, we volunteers and the Norton staff themselves, can usually get to the underlying problem and fix it.  That involves a lot of data exchange and trial-and-error.  Unfortunately, the client often throws up their hands and says "you did it; you fix it; and do it now."  Believe me, if we could, we would.  Everyone of us volunteers are here to help you and get you on our way.  Since we don't quit trying, that means your problem has become our problem.  And that means feeding our kids late, missing our own appointments, sticking around, and putting up with a whole lot of ... well, animosity ... just because we want you to get the help you need.  Even if it's your fault that it happened.

Scan these boards, read each post to the end, and you will find that in almost every case, we have found that the problem was a client's unusual and improper setting, an out-of-date piece of software or hardware no longer serviced by the manufacturer (if the manufacturer is even still in business), a hidden virus or rootkit or the artifacts of one, an improperly done update of a service pack or change of operating systems, an imperfectly removed application or applications, a conflicting security application.

And if you read these boards, you will find that the visitor almost always refuses to cooperate in our attempts to help.  We ask for specific information such as service pack designation, version number, conflicting applications; and in return we get answers that range from "why should I tell you" and "what difference can that make" or just plain being ignored to pure rage that we haven't already magically fixed the problem with out telepathic and telekinetic powers.  And as each of our attempts to try a solution fail, the rage increases, as though all this was intentional.  We put up with personal attacks and corporate attacks and threats to switch to another company as though we were the personal representatives of Symantec and being beaten with this stick we will stop all the rest of our lives and instantly solve the problem.  We put up with snideness and sarcasm and just plain viciousness and come back here day after day because for some strange reason we actually want to fix your problem.

So possibly you are one of the first few people who actually have found a bug in NIS2010 that keeps it from installing properly.  We know that you are not one of the tens of thousands of people who had a perfect installation.  But most likely you are one of the hundreds who have something wrong with your system that you don't know about and we will try to help you get to the root of the problem.  As fast and best as we can.  If you work with us.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos3 Stats

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

The problem with the error codes, which we have run into before, seems to be more of a notification that "something doesn't work." The same error has been seen as the result of a rootkit, bad video drivers,  video cam software, if I recall correctly, and one or two completely unidentified problems.  The error codes don't just tell you this is the problem and this is what you can do to fix it.
Under certain circumstances profanity provides relief denied even to prayer.Mark Twain
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

For me, over the years, when replacing one security product by that of another company, i practiced this :

 1. Normally uninstall the security product with it's own uninstall program from 'Add Remove Programs' or the like

2. Use the 'complete uninstall' routine offered by the company on it's website

3. Clean registry with the tool you like and after that scan the registry on remainders

Reasonable advice, though I have rarely needed to perform #2 and #3 with most SW I use.  Not to mention the installs usually work the first time, and if not they usually clean up after themselves properly.  Though yes... I understand that is not always possible.

Ultimately I kept this version of Norton simply because I paid for it. But I won't be buying it for my other computers. I used to use Norton exclusively in the past. But over the years installation problems like this started to crop up, so I began trying other AV s/w.  Overall, I've had the most installation problems with Norton s/w.  It is why I stopped using it before and why I won't be using it again.  I just don't care to spend my time tracking down this kind of problem when I've found other s/w that works for me.  So if it works for you .. great.  I'm using what works for me.. something else.

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

I


jmTd wrote:

For me, over the years, when replacing one security product by that of another company, i practiced this :

 1. Normally uninstall the security product with it's own uninstall program from 'Add Remove Programs' or the like

2. Use the 'complete uninstall' routine offered by the company on it's website

3. Clean registry with the tool you like and after that scan the registry on remainders

Reasonable advice, though I have rarely needed to perform #2 and #3 with most SW I use.  Not to mention the installs usually work the first time, and if not they usually clean up after themselves properly.  Though yes... I understand that is not always possible.

Ultimately I kept this version of Norton simply because I paid for it. But I won't be buying it for my other computers. I used to use Norton exclusively in the past. But over the years installation problems like this started to crop up, so I began trying other AV s/w.  Overall, I've had the most installation problems with Norton s/w.  It is why I stopped using it before and why I won't be using it again.  I just don't care to spend my time tracking down this kind of problem when I've found other s/w that works for me.  So if it works for you .. great.  I'm using what works for me.. something else.


Interesting logic.  So if some other security-ware doesn't uninstall properly (and a good registry cleaner will verify this for you), then you blame the replacement product for not installing properly when it comes into conflict with the debris of the other product.

You are aware, of course, that software can render both registry entries and files unremovable?  Even a DOS-level attack cannot remove all the stuff that is there.  I was just trying to accomplish that task yesterday and it took two hours to remove things I needed to remove.

If you think I am exaggerating, just try copying the documents & settings folder to a portable harddrive, then seeing if you can delete the folders from the portable harddrive after putting them there.  Good luck ...

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010

I am sorry you insist on misinterpreting people's commments and seem to be incapable of holding a reasonable discussion on the topic.  Accept the fact that people are different, their experiences with software are different, therefore they will not always agree with each other.  To believe otherwise is silly, pointless, some might even call it deluded.

I am now officially bored with this "conversation".  But since it is a free country, please feel free to continue arguing with yourself.  Consider me officially unsubscribed

Kudos0

Re: unable to successfully install NIS 2010


jmTd wrote:

I am sorry you insist on misinterpreting people's commments and seem to be incapable of holding a reasonable discussion on the topic.  Accept the fact that people are different, their experiences with software are different, therefore they will not always agree with each other.  To believe otherwise is silly, pointless, some might even call it deluded.

I am now officially bored with this "conversation".  But since it is a free country, please feel free to continue arguing with yourself.  Consider me officially unsubscribed


Hey, I think of it as one big kitchen.  Anyone's welcome.  Anyone who wants to leave, that's fine, too.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware

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