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Kudos0

Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

I'm getting a battering for defending Norton in this thread in the MS Community, particularly from iFiredog

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/feedback/forum/fdbk_commsite-bug/performance-problems-with-this-website-please/212a4e6e-cbd9-4c31-8278-6c397256a37d?messageId=a5cb429a-d467-45c6-98c2-4d91e93ef870

and now, surprise surprise, a new User has asked if he needs Norton when he has Defender in this thread

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/protect/forum/protect_defender-protect_scanning-windows_10/do-i-need-norton-since-i-have-windows-defender/be758762-febf-4f11-b685-21a045422744?auth=1

Is he genuine, I wonder?

Anyway, has Norton any advice for me? Clearly they are again under attack from Microsoft and I need some ammunition to stand my corner.

PS Shouldn't there be a Norton Security tag/label here?

Win10 Home v1703 15063.540 / IE11 11.540.15063.0 / Norton Security Premium v22.10.1.10/ Office365 2016 Home Premium

Replies

Kudos2 Stats

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Taffy, if you feel the need to defend Norton and put those Defender supporters in their place, you might want to show them this.

https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/juni-2017/m...

Here are the latest results from av-test for Win 10, and Norton blows Defender out of the water !

https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/

Windows 10 X64 Creators Update
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Brilliant F 4 E. Links now winging their way to MSComm.

Win10 Home v1703 15063.540 / IE11 11.540.15063.0 / Norton Security Premium v22.10.1.10/ Office365 2016 Home Premium
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

I guess that'll teach me to play with the big boys - I've now been hit with accusations that the av-tests are meaningless in many circumstances:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/protect/forum/protect_defender-protect_scanning-windows_10/do-i-need-norton-since-i-have-windows-defender/be758762-febf-4f11-b685-21a045422744?messageId=cc8021b9-852c-4b59-92df-17ce83f023bb and

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/protect/forum/mse-protect_scanning-windows_7/microsofts-antivirus-is-just-as-good-as-avast-and/6feb84f1-2d80-482c-b467-a927d051ee75

Also, an expert there (not involved in the first thread) has PM'd me in another forum asking why I so vigorously defend a  company that is currently having bad foul-ups such as this one: http://community.norton.com/en/forums/norton-security-suite-service-canceled-your-service-has-been-canceled

PS If I again uninstall Norton I'll lose my link to here (although I'll still have my ID etc here). Is there a way to log-in here other than via my icon?

Win10 Home v1703 15063.540 / IE11 11.540.15063.0 / Norton Security Premium v22.10.1.10/ Office365 2016 Home Premium
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Taffy, even if you uninstall Norton, you can still sign in and use the forums.

Fwiw, I've been running Windows for many many years now, and have never needed to use the MS forums.

You want to know how to fix a MS issue ? Save yourself some grief, and Google it !

Even the Tech Support forum here, is a fount of knowledge.

Windows 10 X64 Creators Update
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Not seeing mention of Norton in the long winding 7 page thread. My experience with windows defender goes all the way back to when they bought it from "GIANT AntiSpyware". They don't have anything like the SONAR behavior based detection, and their reputation based detections are limited.

The things that the AV tests don't take into account (blocking exploits in real time, SONAR, reputation) are the very thing that microsoft's product is weakest in.

Use microsoft's scanning product and you get the expected performance. Install another product (and expect defender to be off) and defender does it's own scan anyway at random (Limited Periodic Scanning) slowing your scan down more than you would expect (because two scanners are running at the same time). Also some have said (don't have the thread handy) that Limited Periodic Scanning is itself requesting a full Norton scan once a day for no reason.

defender installed = scan normally

competing non-microsoft product installed = Scan anyway instead of being disabled, ask the competing product to do it's own scan 30x more than normal.

Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

pw_pw, I think you'll find that the AV test DOES include real time performance.

Read the results for Norton, here. Tested May/June.

https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/june-2017/n...

Windows 10 X64 Creators Update
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

The thread in which I'm getting battered has been split off into a new thread here: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/feedback/forum/fdbk_commsite-bug/message-this-site-is-not-secure-when-signing-in-to/379c348b-d4b4-4e3c-aa7f-94cfe1543b60

And Carol, one of the subscribers has made this comment: "It was long ago determined that toolbars are a privacy risk. In this case, which is even worse, you have the Norton toolbar via which you can open a Vault where all your IDs and PW's are stored! That sounds to me like a security risk. Since your toolbar is attached to your browser, if your browser is compromised so are all your passwords!

Edit: As for Norton's Safe Site feature, you could replace it with WOT and Bitdefender's Traffic Light browser add-ons."

I've replied but if you can think of any more ammunition for me . . . .

Win10 Home v1703 15063.540 / IE11 11.540.15063.0 / Norton Security Premium v22.10.1.10/ Office365 2016 Home Premium
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Update, to save you ping-ponging over to MSComm:

My reply to the above: "Another thought Carol. You say "It was long ago determined that toolbars are a privacy risk. In this case, which is even worse, you have the Norton toolbar via which you can open a Vault where all your IDs and PW's are stored! That sounds to me like a security risk. Since your toolbar is attached to your browser, if your browser is compromised so are all your passwords!"

But my Vault is password-protected so how can it be a security risk?"

Her reply: For the same reason, because your pw protected vault is attached to your browser, e.g.

"Since your toolbar is attached to your browser, if your browser is compromised so are all your passwords"

Therefore, I assume it's also at risk. I'm not 100% sure though. But, it's still best and rec'd to store passwords offline. I once had mine saved in files, but even that is somewhat risky. That's only if I were hacked, which is unlikely. Still I finally printed all mine out after saving into a rich text doc. I have LOTS of passwords and now use Keypass to generate them. I used to create complex pw's myself, but those randomly generated passwords are much more secure.

 IOW, it's really in your best interest not to trust the vault to the extent you do. Nothing within a browser is that secure. Considering browsers are the main app we use everyday online, that makes it even more important to be more cautious." "

Is she right?

Win10 Home v1703 15063.540 / IE11 11.540.15063.0 / Norton Security Premium v22.10.1.10/ Office365 2016 Home Premium
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

F 4 E:

pw_pw, I think you'll find that the AV test DOES include real time performance.

Read the results for Norton, here. Tested May/June.

https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/june-2017/n...

That's testing how fast it scans, not detecting threads based on behavior. Not to say performance of a product isn't important.

Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Taffy_078:

Update, to save you ping-ponging over to MSComm:

My reply to the above: "Another thought Carol. You say "It was long ago determined that toolbars are a privacy risk. In this case, which is even worse, you have the Norton toolbar via which you can open a Vault where all your IDs and PW's are stored! That sounds to me like a security risk. Since your toolbar is attached to your browser, if your browser is compromised so are all your passwords!"

But my Vault is password-protected so how can it be a security risk?"

Her reply: For the same reason, because your pw protected vault is attached to your browser, e.g.

"Since your toolbar is attached to your browser, if your browser is compromised so are all your passwords"

Therefore, I assume it's also at risk. I'm not 100% sure though. But, it's still best and rec'd to store passwords offline. I once had mine saved in files, but even that is somewhat risky. That's only if I were hacked, which is unlikely. Still I finally printed all mine out after saving into a rich text doc. I have LOTS of passwords and now use Keypass to generate them. I used to create complex pw's myself, but those randomly generated passwords are much more secure.

 IOW, it's really in your best interest not to trust the vault to the extent you do. Nothing within a browser is that secure. Considering browsers are the main app we use everyday online, that makes it even more important to be more cautious." "

Is she right?

An encrypted vault attached to the browser is no more or less secure than one outside the browser. Without the unlock password they can't extract the contents. Then again if you are infected(not detected) and you enter the password and unlock the vault (one inside or outside the browser) then it is possible for bad software to access it (it's just a matter of the design of the malware).

This is one of the main deciding points of having your passwords stored on or off your computer. Then again if you are infected with an undetected virus (regardless of the AV protection) and you don't have a vault and you enter your passwords manually the virus can still steal your password (you just typed it rather than using the vault).

If your browser in compromised, your computer is compromised.

The only real argument they are making is that there is no way to secure your password on an infected computer (in browser vault, out of browser vault, typing memorized passwords by hand).

Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

password_password:
F 4 E:

pw_pw, I think you'll find that the AV test DOES include real time performance.

Read the results for Norton, here. Tested May/June.

https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/june-2017/n...

That's testing how fast it scans, not detecting threads based on behavior. Not to say performance of a product isn't important.

Read this link. This is what I was referring to.

https://www.av-test.org/en/test-procedures/test-modules/protection/

Windows 10 X64 Creators Update
Kudos0

Re: Norton under attack again in Microsoft Community

Read this link. This is what I was referring to.

https://www.av-test.org/en/test-procedures/test-modules/protection/

Nice, that's an improvement since my last check on these kinds of sites.

I do note that site has some serious usability issues. Sorting by more than one category doesn't work, opening products in new windows doesn't work, misc other weirdness. I got the easy to get information and left. Norton scored pretty well.