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Kudos1 Stats

Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Windows 7 Pro, Norton Antivirus

When my computer reconnects to the internet after being disconnected for several hours, the Automatic LiveUpdate will start. This will take over my hard-drive slowing everything down. Things get so slow that it can take many minutes to get into Norton to temporarily disable the automatic updates.

Is there a way to set NAV so that the Automatic LiveUpdate is scheduled or constrained as to when it starts? It would be nice even to have it so that it would not execute the update until 20 or 30 minutes after reconnecting to the internet.

Replies

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Christine_208:

When my computer reconnects to the internet after being disconnected for several hours, the Automatic LiveUpdate will start. This will take over my hard-drive slowing everything down. Things get so slow that it can take many minutes to get into Norton to temporarily disable the automatic updates.... Is there a way to set NAV so that the Automatic LiveUpdate is scheduled or constrained as to when it starts?

Hi Christine_208:

I'm not sure, but I think I might be having the same problem.  Are you certain your issue is caused by an Automatic LiveUpdate, or is it possible it could be another background Norton task like Quick Scan or Norton Insight listed at Settings | Administrative Settings | Background Tasks | Configure that's causing the problem?  See my comments in marlae007's thread High disk usage at 100% on NIS - Files DISTRPTR.DAT and DISTRPTR.DAT .LOG, which include:

It might be a coincidence, but I've started experiencing similar disk thrashing that lasts for about 5 or 10 min after my system comes out of sleep/hibernation mode .... I didn't notice anything unusual in my Norton security history or Windows Event Viewer that correlated with the disk thrashing.  My best guess right now is that it has something to do with an unfinished background Norton task that isn't pausing correctly when I take my system out of idle (I sometimes take my system out of idle and put my computer to sleep manually if I know it's not going to be used for a few hours) but I have no definitive proof of that.

There are three settings at Settings | Administrative Settings that control how long your system must remain idle before Norton starts running (or resuming) the background Norton tasks (see image below).  Click the "?" next to each setting to be automatically re-directed to the related support article.  I always use the default settings and they've never caused a problem for me before.  If my suspicions are correct then something isn't working correctly with my setting for Automatic Resume Delay From Sleep Or Hibernation because my computer doesn't seem to be waiting 10 min after my computer comes out of sleep mode before it resumes one or more of these interrupted (paused) background tasks.

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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Thanks for the post. 

Here is my logic: When I stopped the Automatic LiveUpdate via the Administrative Settings: Background Tasks: Configuration window, the hdd thrashing stopped. Could be a coincidence but hard to imagine though. That said, I'm smart enough to know that correlation is not causation. :-)

As for the settings you mentioned, I have mine set to delay 20 minutes for all three and they were that way when I was finally able to get to the administrative settings panel.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Christine_208:

...Here is my logic: When I stopped the Automatic LiveUpdate via the Administrative Settings: Background Tasks: Configuration window, the hdd thrashing stopped....

Hi Christine_208:

According to the support article Updates "LiveUpdate works silently every one hour to check and download new protection updates" but the support article Customize Background Tasks Window also adds that "The background tasks are the tasks that Norton runs during idle time. These tasks do not run when you use your computer."

As far as I know ALUs and other background tasks should automatically pause (i.e., the Status should change from Running to Canceled) as soon as you use an input device like your keyboard, mouse or touchpad to bring your system out of idle, and the paused/canceled ALU should not resume until the next time your system goes back into idle mode. I don't think an ALU should continue to run if you open the Background Tasks window (which should bring your system out of idle) but I might be wrong about that. Hopefully one of the Norton employees or Forum Gurus can clarify how ALUs should behave.  I know a LiveUpdate can be triggered to run outside of a system idle in rare instances where your SDS (virus) and other definitions have not been updated for several days but my ALUs are running to completion several times a day and definitions are current so that's not an issue on my system.

I been having a hard time trying to diagnose this problem since my system freezes and I can't do anything on my computer once this disk thrashing starts, but here are two things I've noticed:

Firstly, I always see an Automatic LiveLiveUpdate (ALU) run outside of idle mode every morning as soon as my computer boots up (which brings my system to a slow crawl), and I don't think that's supposed to happen.

Secondly, I've also observed a significant increase in the page faults count and disk writes by nortonsecurity.exe on the days this disk thrashing occurs.  See <here> for further details.

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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

While you can set the delay settings for a long period of time, I would recommend setting the Idle Time Out to one minute.  This is because some of the background tasks that are considered essential will run in non-idle time if they do not have an opportunity to run while your PC is idle.  Setting this option to one minute means that Norton does not have to wait long after your PC is first idle to begin performing its background tasks.  Making Norton wait 20 minutes before starting these tasks almost assures that they will not always have time to run and may therefore interfere with your work later when you are using the computer.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

SendOfJive:

While you can set the delay settings for a long period of time, I would recommend setting the Idle Time Out to one minute.  This is because some of the background tasks that are considered essential will run in non-idle time if they do not have an opportunity to run while your PC is idle...

Hi SendOfJive:

I agree that decreasing the Idle Time Out is preferable to increasing it, but I've used Norton for about a decade and the default setting of 10 min has never caused a problem.  That might be because my laptop is usually plugged in at home and my power plan waits for 25 min before it puts the computer to sleep when it's plugged in.

The disk thrashing I've described that freezes my system for several minutes after my computer is taken out of sleep/hibernation mode just started a few weeks ago.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

I just don't see the point of making Norton wait to start performing tasks after your PC is idle.  If your computer is going to sit quietly for 20 minutes, why not let Norton take care of its tasks immediately, and perhaps be finished by the time you return?

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Hello lmacri

Since this issue started a few weeks ago and you are using a Vista laptop, how is the condition of the hard drive? I realize you might have changed a hard drive on that laptop. Since it's a laptop and it's still using Vista, the age of the laptop and it's parts might have some role in the causation of this issue. Just a possibliity I feel.

Have a Good Night and

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit NSBU 22.16.4.15 Core Firmware 270 I E 11 Chrome
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

floplot:

...Since this issue started a few weeks ago and you are using a Vista laptop, how is the condition of the hard drive?...

Hi floplot:

My latest ChkDsk and System File Checker (sfc /scannow) didn't uncover any issues - just the usual unused index entries that were cleaned up by ChkDsk.  Piriform's Speccy utility shows all my HDD S.M.A.R.T. attributes are rated Good and within specs.

It might be a coincidence but the disk thrashing and excessive disk writes started around the same time I received the latest v20181212.052 SymPlatform Definitions and speng32.dll (Symantec Platform Component Library) update on 14-Dec-2018 (located on my machine at C:\Program Files\Norton Security with Backup\NortonData\22.9.1.12\Definitions\SymPlatformDefs\20181212.052).  Symantec employee Gayathri_R's description <here> of the function of this new SymPlatform engine is a bit vague so I'm not sure how that might tie in with my disk thrashing, but as I noted in marlae007's recent thread High Disk Usage at 100% on NIS - Files diStRptr.dat and Files diStRptr.dat.log I have non-essential Norton tasks like Norton Community Watch, Detailed Data Error Collection, both disk optimizers, browser and disk cleaning, etc. disabled, and my NS v22.15.1.8 entered maintenance mode in September 2018 and hasn't received a product update for over 3 months, so I have no idea why nortonsecurity.exe is writing GBs of data to my hard drive on the days this disk thrashing occurs.  As far as I know the SymPlatform update is the only major change made to my Norton installation in the past few weeks.

OP Christine_208 suspects that the disk thrashing on their Win 7 SP1 machine is connected to Automatic LiveUpdates running outside of system idles.  I decreased my Idle Time Out from the default 10 min to 1 min as SendOfJive suggested and I'll monitor my background tasks for a few days to see if I can catch the cause of the disk thrashing on my own computer.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

SendOfJive:

While you can set the delay settings for a long period of time, I would recommend setting the Idle Time Out to one minute.  This is because some of the background tasks that are considered essential will run in non-idle time if they do not have an opportunity to run while your PC is idle....

 Just an FYI that another Automatic LiveUpdate (ALU) ran outside of idle mode this morning after I booted up and logged into Windows, even with Idle Time Out set to 1 min.  I don't know if that's Symantec's intended behaviour but it's not unusual on my machine - I've seen this in the past and these out-of-idle ALUs might slow down my machine slightly (e.g., my browser might launch a bit slower) but I don't think they've ever caused the severe disk thrashing I've seen these past few weeks after my system comes out of sleep/hibernation and causes my computer to become completely unresponsive for 5 or 10 minutes.  I wonder if the disk thrashing could be related to a recent problem where I'm not always connecting properly to Symantec's backend cloud servers after I come out of sleep mode, or that Norton is having problems identifying when my system is idle?

I powered up at ~ 6:38:51 AM today and nortonsecurity.exe loaded at 6:39:04 AM.  Here's an image I captured just after 7:00 AM this morning (no severe disk thrashing observed):

As far as I know my ALUs only run outside of idle once a day after I boot up - for the rest of the day my Norton tasks run during system idles as expected.  This image was captured shortly after noon today.

I'm also used to seeing the Norton Community Watch (NCW) run for a few seconds throughout the day, even when NCW and Detailed Data Error Collection are turned off.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos0

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

lmacri:
floplot:

...Since this issue started a few weeks ago and you are using a Vista laptop, how is the condition of the hard drive?...

Hi floplot:

My latest ChkDsk and System File Checker (sfc /scannow) didn't uncover any issues - just the usual unused index entries that were cleaned up by ChkDsk.  Piriform's Speccy utility shows all my HDD S.M.A.R.T. attributes are rated Good and within specs.

Imacri,
FWIW ~ Curious, does your HDD pass SeaTools for Windows:  Short Drive Self Test, Short Generic, Long Generic.   
Regards w Respect 

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

bjm_:

FWIW ~ Curious, does your HDD pass SeaTools for Windows:  Short Drive Self Test, Short Generic, Long Generic.  

 Hi bjm_:

S.M.A.R.T. focuses mainly on mechanical reliability (e.g. imminent drive failure), while SFC and ChkDsk focus mainly on system file integrity and logical file system errors (e.g., data corruption).  I included the advanced option to scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors with ChkDsk (including hard bad sectors that can occur because of physical damage to the surface of the disk) and it reported "0 bad file records processed" and "0 KB in bad sectors."

I'm not sure I follow your logic for running stress tests on my hard drive, or why you and floplot suspect excessive page faults and disk writes by one particular executable (nortonsecurity.exe) are pointing to a problem with my hard drive.

My Norton subscription expires in about a week.  Perhaps my best option is to wipe Norton off my system and install another security program to see if that solves the problem.  I just purchased a retail box of NS Deluxe (1-year/5 devices) at Staples Canada for $19.99 CAD ($14.67 USD) a few days ago so I could use the product key to renew my subscription but the box is unopened so I can still return it for a refund.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Hello lmacri.

I think we have all taken over Christine's thread. Sorry Christine. My computer is on 24/7. My monitor shuts down after 30 minutes. That way Norton can do what it needs to do at night after I have gone to sleep. I do restart it at least once a day. Mine is Win 7 Pro 64 bit. I have my time outs down to 1 minute. I have my weekly virus scan run at night and I have noticed that most of the time there is a SDS update just before my 2 AM virus scan. With the holiday season going on now, I think a lot of Norton activities might be at a minimum. Weekends it is usually less often also. I would think that Norton would try to get SDS definitions out to customers as soon as possible even if it means it gets released during a time when a pc is not idle.

No way am I saying that my procedures are the correct way, but that does seem to work for me. My hubby is still using a laptop which I think might have originally  a XP or maybe an early Win 7. I know my son installed Win 10 on it and put in a SSD drive in it. The machine is  slow, but it is good enough for what he does with it.

Enjoy your laptop and Happy New Year to all !.

Have a Good Night and

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit NSBU 22.16.4.15 Core Firmware 270 I E 11 Chrome
Kudos0

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Imacri,
My curiosity is solely related to Piriform.   I've had Speccy and CCleaner identify HDD as SDD.   
I've had Speccy report S.M.A.R.T. attributes Good on HDD with bad sectors.
I've had Seagate report S.M.A.R.T Pass with Short DST, Short Generic and Long Generic as Fail.  

No biggy.  I presume your Vista box has original HDD.  And I'm suspect re Piriform.  
Regards

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Christine_208:

...Here is my logic: When I stopped the Automatic LiveUpdate via the Administrative Settings: Background Tasks: Configuration window, the hdd thrashing stopped. Could be a coincidence but hard to imagine though. That said, I'm smart enough to know that correlation is not causation. :-)

Hi Christine_208:

Just wanted to let you know that I had Settings | Administrative Settings | Idle Time Out set to 1 min for about two weeks (Norton Community Watch and Detailed Data Error Collection were disabled on my system) and I continued to see Automatic LiveUpdates and Norton Community Watch occasionally running outside of system idles.  These out-of-idle Automatic LiveUpdates usually occurred just after my system was booted up in the morning but I could sometimes can catch them running in the middle of the day after my system came out of sleep/hibernation mode.

I ran a few diagnostics on my system and noticed that my Event Viewer started logging volsnap errors around the same time I noticed nortonsecurity.exe thrashing my hard drive outside of system idles.  As you previously noted, correlation does not equal causation, but there seemed to be a pattern emerging where my volsnap errors occurred around the same time as a Norton Automatic LiveUpdate (see images below for 11-Jan-2019 @ 3:24 PM). This is pure speculation on my part, but it almost seems likes there was a recent change in Norton's heuristic (behaviour-based) real-time protection that "woke up" and started monitoring my system when my Vista SP2 OS was performing a task that consumed high levels of disk I/O in a short period of time (e.g., like trying to create a system restore point).

My Vista SP2 OS will schedule the automatic creation of a system restore point at boot-up if a restore point hasn't been saved in the past 24-hours, and the Tech Journey article Force Automatic System Restore Points Creation notes that "newer version of Windows has long gaps between restore points creation interval".  For example, System Restore is disabled on Windows 10 machines by default, and according to the Windows Central tutorial How to Use System Restore on Windows 10 if you enable System Restore on a Win 10 machine "a new restore point will be created automatically when an important system change occur, such as before an installation of a Windows 10 update". I don't know if other users are affected by this issue, but perhaps that's why the problem was more prevalent on my older Vista SP2 computer.

Apologies in advance if anything I've posted has taken your thread off-topic.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * MB Premium v3.5.1.2522-1.0.365

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Automatic Liveupdate thrashing hdd

Just bumping to prevent a thread lock.

My intermittent problem with disk thrashing and system freezes when I take my system out of idle mode wasn't fixed by a clean re-install of Norton on 19-Jan-2019.  I ran the Farbar Recovery and Scan Tool (FRST) and the Additions.txt file showed multiple code integrity errors for SYMEVENT.SYS being logged every second or so when this disk thrashing occurred.  Here's a sample excerpt:

Date: 2019-01-26 12:32:02.435
Description:
Code Integrity is unable to verify the image integrity of the file \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Windows\System32\drivers\SYMEVENT.SYS because the set of per-page image hashes could not be found on the system.

Date: 2019-01-26 12:32:01.423
Description:
Code Integrity is unable to verify the image integrity of the file \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Windows\System32\drivers\SYMEVENT.SYS because the set of per-page image hashes could not be found on the system.

Date: 2019-01-26 12:32:00.460
Description:
Code Integrity is unable to verify the image integrity of the file \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Windows\System32\drivers\SYMEVENT.SYS because the set of per-page image hashes could not be found on the system.

I don't know if I've found the cause, but I set Detailed Data Error Collection to "Never" before turning off Norton Community Watch and disabled Performance Monitoring on 02-Feb-2019 and haven't experienced any disk thrashing or SYMEVENT.SYS errors since then.

I'm still seeing Automatic LiveUpdates and Norton Community Watch occasionally run outside of system idles (my Idle Time Out is currently set to 1 min) so it's possible this workaround hasn't really fixed whatever is (or was) causing the disk thrashing and system freezes.

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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * NS Deluxe v22.15.1.8 * MB v3.5.1-1.0.365