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Kudos0

FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 2:47AM · Edited: 05-Mar-2020 | 3:09AM · 94 Replies ·

SORRY FOR THE ALL-CAPS, BUT I JUST WASTED 3 HOURS WRITING OUT THIS POST, ONLY TO HAVE THE STUPID FORUM TIME OUT AND LOG ME OUT WITHOUT KNOWING, AND WHEN I CLICKED SAVE, I LOST EVERYTHING. 

SO HERE I AM AGAIN, STRESSFULLY EXPLAINING MY ISSUE WITH THIS STUPID FORCED-UPGRADE OF MY NORTON PRODUCT FROM v21.7 TO v22.15 THAT HAPPENED 2-3 DAYS AGO, WHICH HAS BEEN ANNOYING AND FRUSTRATING ON MANY LEVELS, BUT THE MOST INFURIATING IS HOW EVERY TIME I CLOSE A PROGRAM, BE IT MY WEB BROWSER, OR A MEDIA EDITING PROGRAM, OR EVEN MY EMAIL PROGRAM, I GET A STUPID "APPLICATION ERROR" POPUP ("Event 26" In Event Viewer Log) SAYING SOME CRAP ABOUT HOW THE PROGRAM (OR SOME COMPONENT OF IT) TRIED REFERENCING A CERTAIN HEXADECIMAL ADDRESS OF MEMORY WHICH COULD NOT BE "READ", AND TO "CLICK OK TO TERMINATE THE PROGRAM. 

I HAVE WINDOWS XP w/SP3, ON 32-bit PLATFORM, AND I HAVE NEVER BEFORE HAD THIS PROBLEM, EXCEPT WHEN A v22 NORTON PRODUCT IS INSTALLED!!

I TRIED v22 TWO YEARS AGO AND IT DID THIS EXACT SAME THING (BUT MUCH WORSE) SO I ROLLED BACK TO 21.7 WHERE I WAS QUITE HAPPY AND UNBOTHERED BY ANY THREATS.

BUT NOW I HAVE HAD THIS NEW v22 GARBAGE SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT, AND AS PREDICTED, IT'S BEING A PIECE OF CRAP BY CAUSING THESE LITTLE CONFLICTS IN MY SYSTEM, WHICH SURELY WILL ESCALATE OVER TIME INTO BIGGER CONFLICTS TIL MY WHOLE SYSTEM IS CORRUPTED!! (ALL PART OF THE DIABOLICAL PLAN, NORTON?? TO FORCE UPGRADES AND CORRAL ALL THE SHEEP INTO THE SAME DUMBED-DOWN PEN OF CONFORMITY AND THUS STRENGTHEN THE TECHNOLOGICAL STRANGLEHOLD?)

I NEED REAL ANSWERS, SOLUTIONS, AND FIXES TO THIS, THAT DO NOT INVOLVE THE MINDLESS & MONOTONOUS "YOU NEED TO UPGRADE" RHETORIC AND OTHER CRAP LIKE THE USELESS CALL CENTER IDIOTS SPEW, SHIFTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS INCOMPATIBILITY "BUG" ONTO ME BY TELLING ME TO WASTE MY TIME AND DISRUPT MY SYSTEM WITH A BUNCH OF UNNECESSARY AND POINTLESS UNINSTALLS/REINSTALLS OF NORTON, ONLY TO END UP BACK WHERE I STARTED.

I HAVE ATTACHED SOME IMAGES OF THE POP-UP ERRORS I GET FOR JUST A COUPLE OF PROGRAMS. EACH PROGRAM SEEMS TO GENERATE THE SAME ONE, WHICH CAN EITHER BE THE SAME/SIMILAR TO ANOTHER PROGRAM OR A DIFFERENT ONE THAT IS UNIQUE TO THAT PROGRAM.

MORE OF THESE ERRORS OCCUR WITH EACH PROGRAM OR COMPONENT OF THAT PROGRAM (SINCE THE UPGRADE).

THEY OCCUR ONLY WHEN I AM CLOSING THE PROGRAM - AND NOT WHILE THE PROGRAM RUNS OR IS IN USE, OR UPON LAUNCHING... AT LEAST FOR NOW.

ANY OTHER "XP+NORTON" USERS OUT THERE HAVING THE SAME OR SIMILAR ISSUES WITH GETTING NEWER NORTON PRODUCTS TO PLAY NICE WITH XP??

I AM HOPING THIS FORUM WILL GET THE NORTON TEAM TO LOOK INTO THIS AND NOT JUST DISMISS THE ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S "JUST A FEW" OLD DINOSAUR XP USERS WHO NEED TO "BUY, CONSUME, OBEY"... aka UPGRADE EVERYTHING DESPITE ALL COST RESTRICTIONS WE MIGHT FACE, AND/OR REFUSING TO ABANDON/FORSAKE 15 YEARS OF WORK THAT WAS CREATED ON PROGRAMS SOLELY DEPENDENT ON A 32-bit SYSTEM!!! 

~ W

My System : 
Windows XP Home Edition, SP3, 32-bit
WORKS PERFECT with Norton UP TO N360 v21.7.0.11 - Anything ABOVE that causes issues!!

File Attachment: 
Image icon Program-Close ERRORS Generated by NORTON 360 v22.png

Replies

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 4:53AM · Permalink

As you found on your first attempts to install the v 22.x.x. products, they are not compatible with XP. This forced update will only give you the v 22 product. Norton seemed to forget this 'little' detail when they set up this forced update.

I have flagged this issue with my contacts. So far the only response is that the team is looking into this.

The only thing you might try for the time being is to revert to the 21.x.x version and turn off LiveUpdate, so the new version does not get pushed to your system. Unfortunately, that also stops any latest virus definitions from getting downloaded.

Sorry there is no other help we can give at this point.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 7:09AM · Edited: 05-Mar-2020 | 7:29AM · Permalink

WTWASP:

...SO HERE I AM AGAIN, STRESSFULLY EXPLAINING MY ISSUE WITH THIS STUPID FORCED-UPGRADE OF MY NORTON PRODUCT FROM v21.7 TO v22.15 THAT HAPPENED 2-3 DAYS AGO...

Hi WTWASP:

While you're waiting one of Guru peterweb's contacts at NortonLifeLock to jump in, could you please clarify.  Do you recall if Settings | Administrative Settings | Automatic Download of New Version was turned OFF in v21.7.1.11 (which should prevent a forced upgrade to v22.x without stopping LiveUpdate from delivering virus definitions and other protection updates), and were you upgraded to N360 v22.15.2.22 (the recommended legacy version for Win XP SP3 and Vista SP2 described in Norton employee Gayathri_R's post Norton Maintenance Mode for Windows XP and Windows Vista)?

Could you also let us know if the CPU on this Win XP SP3 machine supports the SSE2 instruction set?  If you aren't sure, see my post in XP Pentium III on how to determine which SSE/SSE2 instruction sets your CPU supports. Norton v21.7.1.11 products were released in March 2015 and are intended for Win XP machines with very old CPUs (Pentium III or older) that only support SSE and should throw an error message if you try to install any Norton v22.x product.  After after reading 1mcrtd's recent thread I am still a NIS user, but... I'm beginning to wonder now if Norton has suddenly decided to discontinue their v21.x products and/or is incorrectly trying to force Win XP and Vista users to upgrade to the "new" Norton 360 (currently v22.20.1.69), which isn't compatible with those older operating systems.

Just an FYI that I use Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 on my 32-bit Vista SP2 machine and have never seen the types of errors you showed in your attached images.  I would normally suggest that you ensure your programs have the latest available patches for Win XP SP3 and then try creating scan exclusions for the PhotoStudio.exe and Media Jukebox.exe executables and ensure your Norton Smart Firewall permits unrestricted "Allow" access of these executables through your firewall (see my instructions in Adrian King's Adding Files to Exception List) but your original post implies these problems are widespread with v22.15.2.22 and occur when you close multiple programs.

Also, have you ever tried a clean reinstall of v22.15.2.22, which involves a thorough wipe of remnants of your older Norton installations before Norton is reinstalled, just in case your over-the-top upgrades are not cleaning up remnants of v21.7.0.11?  If you'd like instructions post back and confirm you use Norton 360 (i.e., not NAV, NIS or some other Norton product) and whether this is the standard version of N360 (with 2 GB offline offline storage) or N360 Premium (with 25 GB of offline storage).  I only have download links for the Norton Security v22.15.2.22 installers at the moment but that's something Norton LifeLock Customer Support should be able to provide via a Live Chat at https://www.norton.com/chat.

Just FYI, the full offline N360 v21.x installers are still readily available:
   N360 v21.x (standard) : https://www.norton.com/oldn360   (with 2 GB offline storage)
   N360 Premium v21.x :   https://www.norton.com/oldn360p (with 25 GB offline storage)
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 9:29PM · Permalink

peterweb:
As you found on your first attempts to install the v 22.x.x. products, they are not compatible with XP. This forced update will only give you the v 22 product. Norton seemed to forget this 'little' detail when they set up this forced update.


Yeah, they're pretty good at "forgetting" important little details like that. What's even more infuriating is when I point this out to the call center and they have the audacity to argue with me and insist v22 is fully compatible. Do these call center idiots not know anything about Norton products? It's looking that way - like they're pulled off the street, trained in the phone system, given a script of default crap to say, and nothing else. No actual knowledge or understanding of the products. 

peterweb:
The only thing you might try for the time being is to revert to the 21.x.x version and turn off LiveUpdate, so the new version does not get pushed to your system. Unfortunately, that also stops any latest virus definitions from getting downloaded.


Yeah, I already rolled back when I thought/hoped the first auto-upgrade was just a fluke, only to get auto-updated upon the first LU session... My old setup file actually gave me v21.6, and LU was supposed to only upgrade the Engine module to 21.7 and that's it - but no, it's a leap into "current v22". 

I don't like the idea of keeping LU turned off and not getting definitions. Is there a way to obtain the definitions another way, like via the Intelligent updater? I could probably suffer the nuisance of downloading the IU on a daily basis if it only contains definitions updates (Virus Defs, Web Protection Defs, AntiSpam updates, etc) and NO product upgrades. But I suppose the geniuses at Norton "forgot" about THAT "little detail" too? I am getting a little pissed with all this revoking-of-user's-choice where we as the PAYING CUSTOMER can't even use/customize the product as we want or as best suits OUR needs. 

What's the actual risk of just putting up with these Application Error popups? Can the "Errors" cause system instability/corruption (immediately, or over time), or is it jus ta "bug" that is more about "letting me know" of a minor hiccup than reporting any real "damage"? 

Oh, and the last two system reboots got similar pops ups as the system was shutting down, pointing at the Norton product itself. But of course, because the system was shutting down, I could not get a screenshot and there was no record of it in Event Viewer to get more info. 
Once in a blue moon my 21.7 Norton got a "reference to memory" that "could not be read" also, but those were few and far between, and usually after a "heavy day of computing". 

peterweb:
Sorry there is no other help we can give at this point.


Hey, as long as this is being actively looked into with genuine effort and something can be explained (why it happens), fixed (provide a patch or override option to disable whatever triggers the error popups), or an option to roll back to the last best-working product version (21.7) and resume "Maintenance mode" where LU provides ALL the definitions updates but NO product updates. 
Preferably SOONER rather than later. 

Maybe Norton could consider approaching the updates the way Microsoft did for Windows (one of the few things they got right) : 
1. Alert that there are new updates BEFORE downloading.
2. Once the end-user responds, he/she is shown a list of all the available updates pending download and installation, where the end-user can then SELECT which ones to accept and which ones to ignore - this would allow filtering out problematic updates (like unwanted product upgrades), with an added option to "Do Not Show This Update Again".
3. The "allowed" updates are then given the green light (by the end-user) to proceed to download and install. 

It's a little more work for the end-user, but it should be an OPTION (to be fully automatic or alert-only with custom selection), just as it was in Microsoft for Windows. 

 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 9:36PM · Permalink

Frankly? On a cosmetic level, even though I HATE the current UI colors (TOO BRIGHT - they literally hurt my eyes and give me headaches - can we PLEASE go back to some black and deep yellow color integrations or offer custom color/skin options? And bring back the black BORDERS on each product window so I can tell overlapping windows apart!), I would happily stay with v22, IF it would just stop causing these issues... and straining my eyes with the horrible blinding pastel colors.

Oh, and a return of the AntiSpam toolbar button for the Outlook Express email program would be appreciated, too. I see the v22 Norton product still has AntiSpam settings and receives LU definitions for it, so why remove it from OE? Having it would put my OE toolbar back right the way I like it ; unfortunately, OE's default button size (even at their largest setting) are too squished together - if for no other reason, the AntiSpam button forced a nicer spacing-out of the toolbar buttons! 
I noticed a file in the Norton directory called "asOELnch.exe" (AntiSpam OE Hook Launcher) - what is this and if it's for OE, why does it not load the AS tool button in my OE?

But first things first : Let's FIX THE APPLICATION ERROR POPUS issue. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 10:39PM · Permalink

lmacri:
Do you recall if Settings | Administrative Settings | Automatic Download of New Version was turned OFF in v21.7.1.11 (which should prevent a forced upgrade to v22.x without stopping LiveUpdate from delivering virus definitions and other protection updates),

ABSOLUTELY!! I did all my setting after rolling back to v21 2 years ago, and everything remained undisturbed until 3-4 days ago! Despite the setting, even after the recent rollback this time, I am still being force-fed the new product.  I should note, my setup file (which I wisely archived to my storage drive) is named v20, but actually installs Engine v21.6, and upon running the first couple LU sessions following installation, it would upgrade the product engine up to 21.7 and that would be the end of that - only LU definitions would be received from that point forward... Until 3-4 days ago. 

and were you upgraded to N360 v22.15.2.22 (the recommended legacy version for Win XP SP3 and Vista SP2 described in Norton employee Gayathri_R's post Norton Maintenance Mode for Windows XP and Windows Vista)?

YES!! I should note, my setup file (which I wisely archived to my storage drive) is named v20, but actually installs Engine v21.6, and upon running the first couple LU sessions following installation, it USED TO upgrade the product engine UP TO 21.7 and that would be the end of that – only LU definitions would be received from that point forward...
Until 3-4 days ago. Where it now leaps straight to upgrading/installing v22. 

Could you also let us know if the CPU on this Win XP SP3 machine supports the SSE2 instruction set?  If you aren't sure, see my post in XP Pentium III on how to determine which SSE/SSE2 instruction sets your CPU supports.
Norton v21.7.1.11 products were released in March 2015 and are intended for Win XP machines with very old CPUs (Pentium III or older) that only support SSE and should throw an error message if you try to install any Norton v22.x product.  After after reading 1mcrtd's recent thread I am still a NIS user, but...

Okay, now we are getting into areas beyond my full comprehension. As far as I know, I have a Pentium 4 processor. I have no idea about any "SSE2" and all that technical stuff. 
This is what is shown when I right-click the "My Computer" icon on the desktop and select "Properties" : 

Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 2002 w Service Pack 3 
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 760 @ 2.80GHz
2.81GHz, 3.46 GB of RAM (2GB x2)

I hope that sheds some light for you which will in turn help yo ushed some light for me on this issue. 

I'm beginning to wonder now if Norton has suddenly decided to discontinue their v21.x products and/or is incorrectly trying to force Win XP and Vista users to upgrade to the "new" Norton 360 (currently v22.20.1.69), which isn't compatible with those older operating systems.

That's my guess. A complete disregard for actual product/OS compatibility, and forcing the product upgrade despite product settings against it, so as to help the sinister plot of forcing all holdouts like me into having "no choice" but to upgrade their OS just so the protection product doesn't persist being problematic for the OS. But as I stated (either in the post above, or the original draft which I lost), I have over 15 years of work and media files all created or functioning with specific programs that are 32-bit oriented, and cannot be migrated over to anywhere beyond my XP system. Whether I "want to or not" (and I do) I am "stuck" with XP, and therefore need things that are (backward) compatible with it. 

I know I am not alone, there are several users, including many businesses, that prefer or simply MUST stay on XP. Shutting us out is and forcing upgrades (which are COSTLY and INCONVENIENT on so many levels) is despotic. 

​​​​​​​Just an FYI that I use Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 on my 32-bit Vista SP2 machine and have never seen the types of errors you showed in your attached images.

Yeah, well, that's Vista. Not XP. I'm not surprised Vista exhibits no issues.
No offense or anything, but I'd like to not complicate matters by trying to equate XP with Vista in any way. As far as I know, Vista (and everything that followed) is a completely different animal from XP, so all its inner workings and behaviors will not mean anything when trying to figure out issues with how XP does its thing. 

​​​​​​​I would normally suggest that you ensure your programs have the latest available patches for Win XP SP3 and then try creating scan exclusions for the PhotoStudio.exe and Media Jukebox.exe executables and ensure your Norton Smart Firewall permits unrestricted "Allow" access of these executables through your firewall (see my instructions in Adrian King's Adding Files to Exception List) but your original post implies these problems are widespread with v22.15.2.22 and occur when you close multiple programs.

Yeah, well, as you can probably imagine, an old OS like XP that has been dropped for all support since 2014, probably runs a lot of programs that also have been similarly abandoned for continued support by their developers, so any updates or patches that might exist, I already have them and applied them, many years ago. 

I have to say it again for clarity : EVERYTHING on my system was running FINE (if not FLAWLESSLY) up UNTIL the NEW NORTON came along. 
I don't think it takes a computer nerd or other technicians to aptly deduce that the problem is NOT with my programs or any "updates/patches" etc pertaining to them ; the problem is with NORTN and its inability to play nice with XP (and all programs on it). Period. 

Usually, when a program is launched, it is automatically added to the Firewall list and given either the "Auto" or "Allow" status. But if you think this warrants a double-check (and "Auto" should be changed to "Allow"?), I can certainly have a peek. I admit I haven't really looked there because most of my programs (apart from the web browser and email) do not connect to the internet, so I guess I never considered checking Firewall rules for "local" programs? 

And yes, it seems no program is exempt. Files like documents, or media (images/audio/video) are not affected when they are closed (from programs like editors). 

However, my VLC Media player has not prompted any of these Application Errors when closed/shutdown (yet)... so, for whatever that is worth to the diagnosis? 

​​​​​​​Also, have you ever tried a clean reinstall of v22.15.2.22, which involves a thorough wipe of remnants of your older Norton installations before Norton is reinstalled, just in case your over-the-top upgrades are not cleaning up remnants of v21.7.0.11?  If you'd like instructions post back and confirm you use Norton 360 (i.e., not NAV, NIS or some other Norton product) and whether this is the standard version of N360 (with 2 GB offline offline storage) or N360 Premium (with 25 GB of offline storage).  I only have download links for the Norton Security v22.15.2.22 installers at the moment but that's something Norton LifeLock Customer Support should be able to provide via a Live Chat at https://www.norton.com/chat.

I'm pretty sure I did. When I tried to roll back the other day, I used the NRnR (Norton Remove n Reinstall) utility, since it appears the SymNRT (Symantec Norton Removal Tool) is no longer available. I followed all the steps, chose a complete removal. I restarted when prompted, and when I go to the desktop, NRnR opened a window to reinstall, which I CLOSED. I then proceeded to install the old N360 with the v20 setup file (ESD_20-4-0-40-EN), and successfully installed v21.6... 

When I ran LU for the "first" time, BAM! Product upgrade, but instead of going to 21.7, it got 22.15 (again). Right back where I started. 

As for product clarity, I definitely WAS using N360 (Premier Edition, not Premium) before all this... but this new product upgrade? While it calls itself 360, it appears as "NorotnSecurity.exe" in Task Manager (which previously was "N360.exe").

So, which is it with this new thing? Is it N360 or NortonSecurity? 

I find the LiveChat completely as useless as the call-in support. They never listen, they just parrot "best-fit" default responses and provide NOTHING of use or assistance. 

​​​​​​​Just FYI, the full offline N360 v21.x installers are still readily available:
   N360 v21.x (standard) : https://www.norton.com/oldn360   (with 2 GB offline storage)
   N360 Premium v21.x :   https://www.norton.com/oldn360p (with 25 GB offline storage)
 

Thanks for that - As I said, my latest setup file indicated it was a v20, but somehow still installed v21.6, but it will be nice to have this file. 

I am pretty sure I have (had) the "N360p" version, cos it was "Premier" or whatever - and featured Multi-Device or whatever... honestly, all these piddly variations really complicate and confuse things... Premium vs Premier, Multi-Device, "with xxGB of offline storage", etc - Aren't things confusing enough without making it worse with all these semantics? Hey - ever notice how "Symantec" sounds a lot like "sematic"? 

Anyway, I honestly have NO use for offline storage and multi-device licenses. I have ONE computer and do not trust offline storage - no clouds, no remote servers, nada. That's what eternal local HDD drives and USB flash drives are for. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 10:46PM · Edited: 05-Mar-2020 | 11:00PM · Permalink

I stand corrected regarding the old setup files - it seems I DID have the latest 21.6 version setup file and that is indeed the one I used to roll back to v21.6, which makes more sense than a v20 setup somehow installing 21.6 - my bad. 

In any event, the bottom line is, I try to roll back after a CLEAN uninstall of the previous product (v22), and LU force-upgrades past the previous "Maintenance Mode" product limit of 21.7... 

And with this new product, I get constant "Application Error" popups (Event 26) every time a close a program or application, which is now also (possibly) including the Norton product itself at system shutdown (restart). 
NOTE : If I open the program and close soon after without doing much of anything, there's no Application Error popups, but if I have it open and use it for any prolonged period of time, and then close it, that's when it happens. 

No other issues, beyond the cosmetic (UI product window with eye-straining & headache-invoking bright colors of white, bright yellow and bright lime green with NO black to even denote window borders, much less provide legible text which is now light grey) and previously-enjoyed/appreciated features (AntiSpam in OE) missing (taken away).
 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 11:09PM · Edited: 05-Mar-2020 | 11:13PM · Permalink

Remember folks, ALL these errors seem to point to addresses (presumably physical locations on the HDD where the program files/data is located?) which "reference" MEMORY that "cannot be 'read'" - surely that has to be a clue?

Some popups cite other processes/applications(?) like "CSpNotify Notify Window" (which are associated with Web Browsers) and "DDE Server Window" (associated with HP scanner and/or software), while others are just with the application itself (ArcSoft PhotoStudio, Media Center, Media Editor, etc). 

Here is a complete list of the errors up to now and the programs affected (so far)... more will surely occur...

Slimjet Browser
Application Error :  CSPNotify Notify Window: slimjet.exe 
• 2020-MAR-03 @ 11:29:05  
  software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x238291da.
• 2020-MAR-04 @ 05:44:02  
  software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x0b5691da.
• 2020-MAR-04 @ 15:08:45  
  software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x182d91da.
• 2020-MAR-05 @ 10:49:43  
  software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x221291da.

Chrome Browser
Application Error :  chrome.exe
• 2020-MAR-05 @ 05:55:40  
  software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x16bd91da.

HP LTX 4300 Scanner
Application Error :  DDE Server Window: hppsapp.exe  
• 2020-MAR-03 @ 22:34:35  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586".
  The memory could not be "read".
• 2020-MAR-03 @ 22:38:21  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586".
  The memory could not be "read".
• 2020-MAR-03 @ 22:52:45  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586".
  The memory could not be "read".

JRMC Media Editor
Application Error :  Media Editor.exe   (editing tool of J River Media Center, aka Media Jukebox)
• 2020-MAR-04 @ 01:07:47  
  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
Application Error : Media Jukebox.exe   (media player of J River Media Center, aka Media Jukebox)
• 2020-MAR-04 @ 06:04:03  
  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

ArcSoft PhotoStudio
Application Error :  Tools: PhotoStudio.exe   (image editor)
• 2020-MAR-04 @ 02:47:22  
  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
• 2020-MAR-04 @ 06:26:15  
  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
• 2020-MAR-05 @ 01:28:38  
  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 05-Mar-2020 | 11:52PM · Permalink

I almost forgot - I tired that Speccy thing to check my system's CPU specs... 
Here it is : 

CPU
        Intel Core i5 760
            Cores    4
            Threads    4
            Name    Intel Core i5 760
            Code Name    Lynnfield
            Package    Socket 1156 LGA
            Technology    45nm
            Specification    Intel Core i5 CPU 760 @ 2.80GHz
            Family    6
            Extended Family    6
            Model    E
            Extended Model    1E
            Stepping    5
            Revision    B1
            Instructions    MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, Intel 64, NX, VMX
            Virtualization    Supported, Enabled
            Hyperthreading    Not supported
            Fan Speed    2057 RPM
            Bus Speed    133.7 MHz
            Rated Bus Speed    2405.9 MHz
            Stock Core Speed    2800 MHz
            Stock Bus Speed    133 MHz
            Average Temperature    54 °C
                Caches
                    L1 Data Cache Size    4 x 32 KBytes
                    L1 Instructions Cache Size    4 x 32 KBytes
                    L2 Unified Cache Size    4 x 256 KBytes
                    L3 Unified Cache Size    8192 KBytes
                Cores
                        Core Speed    Multiplier    Bus Speed    Rated Bus Speed    Temperature    Threads
                    Core 0    2940.5 MHz    x 22.0    133.7 MHz    2405.9 MHz    56 °C    APIC ID: 0
                    Core 1    1202.9 MHz    x 9.0    133.7 MHz    2405.9 MHz    51 °C    APIC ID: 2
                    Core 2    2940.5 MHz    x 22.0    133.7 MHz    2405.9 MHz    55 °C    APIC ID: 4
                    Core 3    1202.9 MHz    x 9.0    133.7 MHz    2405.9 MHz    52 °C    APIC ID: 6

I tried to include a screenshot image but I guess replies don't allow image attachments. I'll try a PDF...

Oh, and forget what I said about documents being unaffected - in creating the PDF file using OpenOffice, I got the DDE error upon closing the document program. Like the scanner got, only a little different : 

Open Office
Application Error :  DDE Server Window: soffice.exe
• 2020-MAR-06 @ 00:39:16  The exception unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x09ec91da.
File Attachment: 
PDF icon Speccy CPU Stats.pdf
Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 3:35AM · Edited: 06-Mar-2020 | 3:48AM · Permalink

I found this article : 
Fix “Instruction at Referenced Memory Could Not Be Read” Errors

Based on :
— what the article says, particularly : "When a “instruction at referenced memory could not be read” error is clearly the result of a buggy piece of software, there may be only one course of action that will work – contacting the developers. Bugs happen and if the game or software package is constantly crashing with this error, it might not be something that you can do anything about. So pop an email to customer support, hit up the official forums and get some advice on whether you’re missing something obvious or if it really is a glitch in the Matrix"... or a glitch in the latest version of NORTON.
— Norton's looooong standing reputation for being a massively greedy MEMORY/RESOURCE HOG
— the fact that my old version of Norton was working fine without ANY issues
— ALL these "sudden" issues of "reference to memory" that is unable to be "read" (among the others), ONLY began with the new Norton's installation
— ALL these errors "suddenly" STOP with the UNinsallation of Norton v22 (and rolling back to the previous version)

MY uneducated guess has always been that that the new Norton is at the root of these problems, and after reading the article I am inclined to lean toward something like Norton TAKING UP ALL KINDS of MEMORY resources (or something like that), and THAT is why my programs cannot properly close/shutdown without invoking all those errors.

I may be wrong. I may be way off. But if that's not the problem, then what is? 
There has to be a simple and logical explanation, AND an equally (or at least relatively) simple solution that does NOT involve me having to forsake my life's work (where the computer is concerned) and upgrade my system to a new computer, and/or do a bunch of unnecessary and unwanted upgrading and messing around within my existing system, or do incredibly stupid and senseless things like roll back to 21.7 and never use LU again, OR put up with this buggy behavior until its relentless continuity finally corrupts my system beyond repair entirely. 

I do not see this as a complicated mystery without any solution :
Either N360 v22 needs to be reigned in and fixed for all its XP-related bugs to make it more user/system-friendly,
or,
N360 21.7 needs to be relinquished back to the end-user as VALID, acceptable, and "supported" version, even if only in "Maintenance Mode". 

I anxiously await any additional help, updates, or solutions. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 4:10AM · Permalink

I dunno if I understood this article correctly : 
How To Optimize The Paging File In Windows
But if I did, I am considering connecting a 5th hard drive - some smaller-capacity volume, old, but still functional and healthy - solely for the purpose of acting as/hosting a pagefile. 

My C: drive is a 1TB and is 75% full right now, and things have been kind of sluggish since it got that full (normally it's only 1/3 full) - HOWEVER, 2 years ago when I first tried N360 v22, I had the same issues, but, I was running XP on a 500GB drive and I honestly cannot say how full my C drive was back then? 

Once again, I am probably grasping at straws, desperately trying to hurry up and find a fix or solution. 
Can anyone tell me if moving my paging file (and increasing it) to an entirely separate HDD for that sole purpose will help, or is it an idiotic idea that can/will never work? 
 

Kudos2 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 4:37AM · Permalink

The problem isn't exclusive to XP.  I'm running Win 7 & both of my PC's recently received the forced upgrade.  I posted in another thread about it here : https://community.norton.com/en/comment/8331301#comment-8331301

Windows 7x64 Home Premium OEM Ver / MoBo: ASUS P7P55D-E / CPU: Intel i5-650 / RAM: 16 Gb Corsair DDR3
Kudos2 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 6:34AM · Permalink

WTWASP:
...Yeah, I already rolled back when I thought/hoped the first auto-upgrade was just a fluke, only to get auto-updated upon the first LU session... My old setup file actually gave me v21.6, and LU was supposed to only upgrade the Engine module to 21.7 and that's it - but no, it's a leap into "current v22"...

Hi WTWASP:

For future reference, here are instructions for performing a clean reinstall of N360 Premium (N360P) v21.7.0.11 on a Win XP or Vista computer.  I'll address some of your other comments later today in a separate post. I cannot say for certain why you see widespread errors popping up for various third-party programs when v22.15.2.22 is installed but I have a few ideas that might point you in the right direction.

Unless something has changed radically at Norton LifeLock in recent weeks and they are no longer permitting Win XP SP3 and Vista SP2 users to run v21 products if their CPU supports SSE2 (which yours does according to your Speccy results), performing an offline installation while disconnected from the internet using the instructions below should prevent an accidental upgrade to v22.x.  If you ever wish to upgrade to N360P v22.15.2.22 the same instructions would apply but you would simply download the offline installer for N360P v22.15.2.22 in Step 1 [Norton LifeLock customer support should be able to provide a download link - see my thread Download Links for NS/NSBU v22.15.1.8 Installers (XP and Vista) regarding links for my Norton Security (NS) v22.15.2.22 product] and skip Step 8 (the setting to disable Automatic Download of New Versions was removed in v22.x). Also note that the old Norton Removal Tool (NRT) and Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool have been combined into a single utility - running the NRnR tool in advanced "Remove Only" mode is now equivalent to running the old NRT (see Step 5 below). If you aren't sure if you have the standard or Premium version of N360 you might find that information in the My Subscriptions tab of your Norton Account by logging in at https://my.norton.com/account/subscriptions.

Please read the warning in Step 5 if you have other Norton products (e.g., Norton Utilities) installed on your computer before starting any clean reinstall, as these products could be uninstalled or corrupted when the NRnR tool is run in advanced "Remove Only" mode.

  1. Download the N360P v21 offline installer from https://www.norton.com/oldn360p (currently N360-PremierESD-21.6.0.32-EN.exe for English-US) and save to your desktop.  Post back if you need an installer for another language and are not automatically offered the correct installer for your region.
  2. Download the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool from https://www.norton.com/nrnr and save to your desktop.
  3. Disconnect from the internet.
  4. Uninstall your current N360P product (either v21.x or v22.x) from the Control Panel (Add/Remove Programs for XP; Programs and Features for Vista and higher).  Choose "Please remove all user data" as shown in the image below when asked if you plan to re-install your product since choosing this option will remove old security history logs and user configuration files (e.g., static files with extensions like .dat, .txt, etc.).
  5. Re-boot and run the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool in advanced "Remove Only" mode (Advanced Options | Remove Only | Remove) to wipe orphaned files and registry entries left behind from your old installation.  Note that the NRnR tool can damage or remove other Norton products when run in "Remove Only" mode, so please read the warning at the top of the NRnR download page if you have other programs like Norton Ghost (and its successor Veritas/Symantec System Recovery) or Norton Utilities installed on your computer.
  6. Re-boot, and if you see a pop-up window prompting you to follow instructions to reinstall your Norton product just ignore and close the pop-up.
  7. Run the Norton v21 offline installer.
  8. Once the installation is complete, immediately disable the option to receive Automatic Download of New Versions (Settings | Computer | Updates | Automatic Download of New Version | OFF) while still disconnected from the internet to prevent an accidental upgrade to N360P v22.
  9. Reconnect to the internet.
  10. Run manual LiveUpdates until Support | About shows that you have latest product update for v21 (currently v21.7.0.11) and no further updates are available.  It might require several cycles of consecutive LiveUpdates and re-boots before N360P reports that no further updates are available.
  11. Edit your N360P settings to suit your personal preferences.

Your product should be automatically activated with your current product key once the upgrade is complete, but if the days remaining on your subscription look incorrect click Support | Subscription Status to sync with your online Norton Account.  If necessary, you can also log into your Norton Account at https://my.norton.com/account/subscriptions and click the My Subscriptions tab link to find your current product activation key.  You might also find that N360P will schedule a Full System Scan to run after the clean reinstall to perform an initial check for malware, and it's not unusual to see high levels of CPU activity from Norton the first few days after a clean reinstall while it performs all it's initial background scans.

Note that the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool will not remove every single orphaned files and registry key, even when run in advanced "Remove Only" mode (this is by design), and in rare case it might be necessary to manually delete the last traces of Norton off your system after Step 6 if the clean reinstall does not solve your problem.  If you need to wipe every last trace of your previous Norton installations off your system, I would strongly advise that you contact Norton LifeLock Customer Support via Live Chat at https://www.norton.com/chat and ask them to provide a detailed list of orphaned folders and registry keys that can be safely deleted for your specific operating system and Norton product after Norton is uninstalled.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos2 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 7:26AM · Permalink

AFAIK this automatic update is coming through LiveUpdate. So the setting for Automatic download of new version will have no effect on these issues. So the only option I can see for now is to fully uninstall the new update, and install the older v21 product and then turn off Automatic download and LiveUpdate. Obviously this will not allow updates to virus definitions either. So you need to evaluate your risk level.

If you do not do any sketchy online activities, you should be safe enough with all the levels of protection in the Norton products.

Kudos2 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 9:34AM · Edited: 06-Mar-2020 | 9:47AM · Permalink

WTWASP:

Remember folks, ALL these errors seem to point to addresses (presumably physical locations on the HDD where the program files/data is located?) which "reference" MEMORY that "cannot be 'read'" - surely that has to be a clue?..

Hi WTWASP:

Scoop8's post <above> appears to confirm that v21.7.0.11 users are being forced to upgrade to a v22.x product, even when Settings | Computer | Updates | Automatic Download of New Version is turned OFF.  I don't know what's going on (and I assume this can only happen if the CPU supports the SSE2 instruction set) so I hope someone from Norton LifeLock responds to you soon and explains why this is happening. I hope it's just a temporary glitch in their upgrade process and that Norton LifeLock didn't discontinue support for v21.7.0.11 without warning current users.

I'm not a certified hardware expert but I believe "memory could not be read" errors often occur on systems with limited free RAM where two or more processes are trying to simultaneously access the same memory address.  If v22.15.2.22 is hogging too much memory on your system and adding more physical RAM isn't an option you might be correct that optimize your virtual memory paging file to increase your virtual RAM will help.  See the HelpDeskGeek article Fix “Instruction at Referenced Memory Could Not Be Read” Errors for more information and other possible workarounds, like stopping unnecessary applications that run in the background and eat up free RAM, and running a thorough ChkDsk (chkdsk /r) and System File Checker (sfc /scannow) from an elevated command prompt just to confirm there are no obvious issues with your Win XP SP3 OS.

Would you mind posting a snapshot of your Speccy profile online as instructed <here>?  Choose File | Publish Snapshot and then copy and paste the URL of your published profile (e.g., http:// speccy.piriform.com/results/...) from the pop-up like the one shown below in your next post so we can see more details about your system specs.

AFAIK Norton v22.15.2.22 (the legacy version for Win XP and Vista described in Norton employee Gayathri_R's post Norton Maintenance Mode for Windows XP and Windows Vista) runs relatively problem-free for most Win XP SP3 users.  If your errors aren't caused by insufficient free RAM it's always possible that one of the newer protection features like Exploit Protection doesn't like the way some of your older programs behave.  It's probably not a coincidence that VLC Media Player v3.x works well with Norton v22.15.2.22 since this third-party program is still fully supported for Win XP SP3 and higher (I use the latest 32-bit VLC Media Player Version 3.0.8 on my Vista SP2 machine with 3 GB of installed RAM and NS v22.15.2.22).  If you currently have Norton v22.15.2.22 on your system again try disabling this feature (Settings | Exploit Prevention | General Settings | Exploit Prevention | OFF) and re-boot to see if that has any effect.

This is a bit of a stretch, but newer programs like your VLC Media Player v3.0.8 are currently installed by many users in the wider Norton community and VideoLAN has likely submitted the SHA256 hashes of their executables to Norton for whitelisting so that Norton's heuristic (behaviour-based) detection systems know these executables are "safe".  If the Intrusion Prevention System (IPS) in Norton v22.15.2.22 doesn't like the way some of your older programs behave (e.g., the Chrome v49 browser released in April 2016 or Arcsoft PhotoStudio v6.0.0.172.1 released in July 2013), it's remotely possible that creating scan exclusions and/or tweaking the default Smart Firewall rule for the .exe executable as I suggested <above> could fix some of the errors for these "problem" programs.  Have you tried the Firefox ESR v52.9.0 browser (the legacy extended support release for Win XP and Vista released June 2018 - I can provide a download link to the full 32-bit offline installer if required) to see if it throws errors like your Chrome and Slimjet browsers?

I'm also wondering if you have traces of your v21.7.0.11 installation that weren't cleaned up during the forced over-the-top upgrade and are now causing unexpected glitches and conflicts with v22.15.2.22. If Norton confirms that there has been a recent policy change and they won't allow users to run v22.11.0.7 anymore you might want to try clean reinstall of v22.15.2.22 at a later date.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS 

Kudos4 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 10:43AM · Edited: 06-Mar-2020 | 10:50AM · Permalink

WTWASP:

...I don't like the idea of keeping LU turned off and not getting definitions. Is there a way to obtain the definitions another way, like via the Intelligent updater? I could probably suffer the nuisance of downloading the IU on a daily basis if it only contains definitions updates (Virus Defs, Web Protection Defs, AntiSpam updates, etc) and NO product upgrades.....

Hi WTWASP:

Just an FYI that I did manage to find a link to the Intelligent Updater for N360 v21.x (it's been moved to the Broadcom website for some reason while Symantec migrates the support articles for their business software like Symantec Endpoint Protection to the new Broadcom owners) but it would only update your Virus Definitions and not other important definitions like Web Protection, AntiSpam, Intrusion (Network) Protection, etc. so its usefulness is somewhat limited.

If you still want this installer see the instructions in the Norton LifeLock support article Update Virus Definition Files Using Intelligent Updater.  The link in Step 1 for the Intelligent Updater download currently redirects you to https://www.broadcom.com/support/security-center/definitions/download/detail?gid=n95.  From there ensure you select the 32-BIT PLATFORMS tab (since you have a 32-bit Win XP SP3 OS) and then scroll all the way to the bottom to find the latest offline 32-bit (v5i32) virus definitions installer for N360P v21.x (currently 20200306-004-v5i32.exe).

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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos2 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 06-Mar-2020 | 11:24PM · Permalink

@WTWASP

Glad I found this thread -- I have the VERY SAME issue as yours, as detailed in here
https://community.norton.com/en/forums/recent-forced-nis-update-xp-sp3-v...

This forced software upgrade has crippled older XP systems with the VERY SAME Referenced Memory error message and hex values (I saw your screen caps and can confirm).  In my case, after forced v22.15.xx upgrade and update, the said Referenced Memory error occurs in the following applications:

1. Photoshop: error message occurs after tasks have been completed (eg. new file saved) and program exited
2. Goldwave: same as above;
3. Famering SmartCutter: same as above;
4. TS Cutter: same as above;
5. VideoReDo Suite: same as above;
6. Notepad: same as above;
7. Acrobat: same.  However, same thing occurs even if certain PDF files are accessed, then quitted without saving;
8. Directory Compare: same as 1-6.  When file synchronization is complete, exiting the problem will result in such error;

The list will continue.  

@lmacri

You've made some sound advice before and now.  I'll try switching off Exploit Prevention completely on my NIS v22.15.xx later today and see what happens.  (I don't think it'll be of much help though). However, I'm not sure if increasing the visual RAM would further impact my system performance (I have 4GB physical with 2048MB in virtual)

If all these don't. help then I'll just rei-image my system back to a previous state with v21.7.xx still intact, then turn off LU and use Intelligent Updater instead. Such action really makes me feel like going back to the stone ages when definitions need to be manually downloaded and installed.  JEEZ!!

As far was killing older software version upport, there's absolutely no mention of it, at least from reading these pages:
https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v126160909
https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/kb20080410115...
https://support.norton.com/sp/en/au/home/current/solutions/v95977279

Just to reiterate, customers should have the privilege to retain and use any older version NIS/NS software, as long as their subscriptions are still valid.  But does Norton/Symantec really understand this, and listen to their customers??

I also recall you used to have v21.7.xx installed on your Vista system, until some time ago.  You probably have your own valid reasons for such upgrade, but my u understanding is that v22.xx won't result in much issue to w7 users, as compared to the XP scenario.

@Scoop8

That was MY thread your were reading.  The difference is that, you haven't reported any system issues on w7 while myself and others have, on XP.  But I'm concerned with such forced update on w7 since I too have a w7p64 laptop with v21.7.xx installed.  And I would prefer to remain in v21.xx on that w7 laptop.


 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 1:43AM · Permalink

Glad I found this thread -- I have the VERY SAME issue as yours, as detailed in here
https://community.norton.com/en/forums/recent-forced-nis-update-xp-sp3-v...

This forced software upgrade has crippled older XP systems with the VERY SAME Referenced Memory error message and hex values (I saw your screen caps and can confirm).  In my case, after forced v22.15.xx upgrade and update, the said Referenced Memory error occurs in the following applications:

1. Photoshop: error message occurs after tasks have been completed (eg. new file saved) and program exited
2. Goldwave: same as above;
3. Famering SmartCutter: same as above;
4. TS Cutter: same as above;
5. VideoReDo Suite: same as above;
6. Notepad: same as above;
7. Acrobat: same.  However, same thing occurs even if certain PDF files are accessed, then quitted without saving;
8. Directory Compare: same as 1-6.  When file synchronization is complete, exiting the problem will result in such error;

The list will continue.  

I was hoping that someone would chime in and concur with my experience, at least similar if not identically - but it sounds like you are indeed getting the same experiences I am having (albeit with different programs), which is, that all is well running and using various programs, UNTIL time comes to shut/close the program, at which time those Application Error Popups are triggered. 

And given that your list of programs is indeed different from mine yet the same odd/irritating behavior is occurring, it proves that it's NOT our programs that are at fault (corrupted files/installations, lacking updates/patches, and other dismissive excuses given by Norton) — it's the behavior caused by the v22 Norton on our older systems, period. 

The list will continue.

As will mine - we can add Notepad.exe to my laundry list ; I just had a short, quick, and newly-created Notepad file get an Error upon closing. Granted I did it quickly, which could play a role, but why should we have to walk on eggshells and give our programs "a moment" to sit idle while things "wrap up" in the background for an indeterminate length of time? You mentioned something about going back to the stone age (of computing)... lol.
 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 2:06AM · Permalink

After having read through all the replies and suggestions (thank you all - I am still carefully sifting through most of it, lol), I obviously cannot reply to every single one directly as I normally would, but some of the suggestions sounded worth a shot, like that Exploit Prevention thing.

However, I am leery of disabling anything in the Norton product not knowing what it is or does, so as for the turning off of Exploit Prevention, I'd like to know exactly what its purpose is before I turn it off (or even just select items within it, such as those pertaining to memory), because the last thing I need it to make my machine more vulnerable to more problems than I already have. 

anon743 said they were going to try this method, so perhaps if anon743 could let me know how it goes for before I start messing about with my rather "delicate and sensitive" system? 

As for all the uninstall/reinstall business, doing a CLEAN removal and such — I am NOT keen on that at this point, because it is time-consuming to have to enter all my persona settings (which are of course lost on a clean removal), like rebuilding the list of items to exclude from scans (which must tediously be entered via "browse the directory trees and select one and a time", rather than just copy & paste the similar/shared-path items).

I do not like my time wasted on fruitless endeavors. I'd like to "know" there's at least some "guarantee" it will actually work, rather than some hopeful "try it and see" roll of the dice only to end up back where I started.

In other words, I am tired of doing all the heavy lifting every time a problem occurs, when it is Norton's responsibility to figure out why THEIR product, which THEY FORCED on me (and others) is causing previously-non-existent issues without any apparent rhyme or reason. 

Like, figure it out, Norton (you guys are the ones with the computer educations and know-how, not me), THEN give us a clear set of instructions to follow, not just a throw-away list of blind shots in the dark with nothing more than a wink and a prayer. Does anyone agree? 

So far, I have run a "sfc /scannow" session... All that did was screw up my video card drivers, which I had to reinstall, which was a pain because my monitor's default display is so damn dark, I cannot see anything. 

I also ran a full 5-phase CHKDSK operation on the C volume to make sure everything is in order, and it is. Everything passed with flying colors (as usual). 

Prior to those things I also did some defragging of the drive via Defraggler, but only targeting fragmented files. A full defrag would take well over 12 hours and I haven't the time for that right now. 

I have considered looking into some kind of MemTest or RAM test to see if my memory sticks are having issues, but I have a feeling that would be an exercise in futility too. 

I would bet anything that it's a bug in the v22 Norton that conflicts with older OS operations. Nothing system-destabilizing critical (at least not right away), but definitely an insufferable nuisance with the potential of being a serious problem down the road if left unaddressed.

I am hoping that either a proper fix will be figured out, in the way of an update patch or a configuration setting that will simply allow me to just "leave well enough alone" and stay with v22 and have it run nicely without interfering (directly or indirectly) with other processes.

If that's not possible (i.o.w. Norton cannot be bothered), then a rollback to 21 will be a necessity, but that too must come with some corrections/adjustments/modifications from Norton to prevent any further forced/unsolicited product upgrades, and NOT leave users in the lurch like sitting ducks without a reliable LU keeping the (fire)walls fortified. 

As much as I would love to roll back to v21, if only for the nicer UI, I can admit that v21 has exhibited some minor instability behaviors (perhaps due to deliberate "sabotage" from Norton to force the hand of users holding out and sticking with v21?), but nothing risky or insufferable. My surfing habits are mostly safe and trusted with occasional ventures of "risky but not reckless" (trying to find free movies to watch online comes with a lot of annoying popups/redirects and intrusion attempts).

So going through all that hassle and system stress of uninstalling and reinstalling products in a "trial & error" capacity seems redundant and just sounds like a lot of effort with little to no reward/results. 

I would, of course, endure it and do it, but ONLY if there was some measure of an "iron-clad guarantee" that I would NOT be auto-upgraded via LU again (either right away or later on down the road), and NOT additionally left with nonsensical "non-solutions" like turning off LU and just be a sitting duck for new threats and attacks, all because Norton cannot be bothered to show a little more consideration to the PAYING CUSTOMERS who are still - for whatever reasons - on older "unsupported" operating systems. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 2:08AM · Permalink

As for posting a snapshot via Speccy, I tried that, but it seems the snapshot reveals ALL my system's specs, which I am not comfortable with at this time.

I thought the focus was just on the CPU and its attributes, so I took screenshot of that and put it in a PDF (following a failed attempt to attach a PNG image) which I attached to my last comment/reply.

I also just copy+pasted the plain text right into the comment/reply prior to that. 

Is there something else, in particular and other than the CPU specs, that needs to be considered/looked at? 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 5:28AM · Edited: 07-Mar-2020 | 5:40AM · Permalink

anon743:

...I also recall you used to have v21.7.xx installed on your Vista system, until some time ago.  You probably have your own valid reasons for such upgrade, but my u understanding is that v22.xx won't result in much issue to w7 users, as compared to the XP scenario...

Hi anon743:

I reluctantly upgraded from NIS v21.7.0.11 to NIS v22.7.0.76 in June 2016 after several major security vulnerabilities in Norton and Symantec products were discovered by Tavis Ormandy of Google's Project Zero in June 2016 - see Tavis' archived blog post <here>, which states in part:

"...These vulnerabilities are as bad as it gets. They don’t require any user interaction, they affect the default configuration, and the software runs at the highest privilege levels possible. In certain cases on Windows, vulnerable code is even loaded into the kernel, resulting in remote kernel memory corruption...."

These major security vulnerabilities still exist in all v22.6 and earlier Norton products and any v21.7.0.11 user who had a CPU that supports SSE2 or higher was either forced to voluntarily upgrade to v22.7 or accept the risks of running a vulnerable Norton v21.x product. Users still running v21.7.0.11 might want to read RLWA32's 29-Jun-2016 thread Support of NIS 21.7.0.11 Discontinued on this topic.  I asked Norton employee Tony_Weiss <here> in that thread why Norton was not patching v21.7.0.11 for Win XP machines with older CPUs that do not support the SSE2 instruction set (since CPUs that only support SSE can't run Norton v22.x products) but never got an answer.

The official 2016 SYM16-010 security advisory for these vulnerabilites used to be located at https://www.symantec.com/security_response/securityupdates/detail.jsp?fid=security_advisory&pvid=security_advisory&year=&suid=20160628_00 but when I tried that link today I was redirected to another Broadcom page at https://www.broadcom.com/support/security-center/securityupdates/detail?fid=security_advisory&pvid=security_advisory&year=&suid=20160628_00. Symantec's business / enterprise division was recently sold to Broadcom (Norton home consumer products remain with Norton LifeLock) and the official handover this week of Symantec's business division to Broaodcom was an unmitigated disaster - see Gunter Born's Tech and Windows World 03-Mar-2020 blog entry Symantec Acquisition by Broadcom Ends in License/Support Chaos.  I'm beginning to wonder now if these forced upgrades from v21.7.0.11 to v22.x products many of you have recently experienced are a direct result of this bungled handover to Broadcom.
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 7:05AM · Edited: 07-Mar-2020 | 7:14AM · Permalink

WTWASP:

...However, I am leery of disabling anything in the Norton product not knowing what it is or does, so as for the turning off of Exploit Prevention, I'd like to know exactly what its purpose is before I turn it off (or even just select items within it, such as those pertaining to memory), because the last thing I need it to make my machine more vulnerable to more problems than I already have....

...As for posting a snapshot via Speccy, I tried that, but it seems the snapshot reveals ALL my system's specs, which I am not comfortable with at this time...

 Hi WTWASP:

No worries if you don't want to post your Speccy profile. I was just curious if your "memory could not be read" errors might be caused by a lack free RAM when Norton v22.x is running and what other third-party software is automatically loaded into memory at boot-up just in case those errors are actually caused by insufficient memory.  However, that seems less likely now if anon734 is experiencing similar problems and has 4 GB of installed RAM and 2 GB of virtual memory on their Win XP SP3 system.

I also wanted to see if you have any other security software like Malwarebytes Premium or Microsoft's free Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit (EMET) that loads into memory at boot-up and could be causing conflicts with your Norton v22 real-time protection. For example, Norton v22's exploit protection feature I mentioned <above> is described in the support article Set Norton to Protect You From Exploits, Cybercriminals, and Zero-day Attacks (expand the section Exploit Prevention Techniques to see descriptions about Java Process Protection, etc.) and it's very common for users running a second security program that loads at Windows startup to experience conflicts with Norton own real-time protection features, especially if both programs include exploit protection.  I believe that Norton's Exploit Prevention is part of the v22.x Intrusion Protection System (IPS), and Intrusion Prevention updates delivered via LiveUpdate that change the IPS Script engine (IPSEng32.dll) and/or driver have been known to trigger unexpected errors on older operating systems in the past.
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:07PM · Edited: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:30PM · Permalink

I tried disabling the entire Exploit Prevention section of the product. It seemed at first like it worked cos Slimjet had closed without any errors, but other programs still triggered the errors upon closing. Mind you, those programs were closed rather "swiftly", meaning I probably clicked the "X" to close immediately after Saving or canceling any current operations within the program, thereby not giving much time for data to be duly processed or something? But as I said previously, I thought computers were supposed to be boasting faster speeds and fewer errors, but it seems we are being straddled with the exact opposite - one must now pause and "count to 10" (or 20, or 100) before closing a program and HOPE that errors of any kind are not triggered. 

As for my system, I have been very meticulous about keeping unwanted/unnecessary background & startup tasks and other crap from running. If I have a background task running, it's there because I want it there. The only time something ever runs without my knowledge is if it's due to a new program I installed runs its own "quick start" and "monitoring/helper" crap, which I either forgot to turn off or was not given the chance to disable pre-emptively during installation. I quickly discover those and kill/disable them.

I also watch closely for third-party junk (malware, spyware, adware) being lumped in with program installations. If I cannot seem to disable or opt-out of the junk and prevet its installation, I abandon the installation entirely.

Years ago I learned which (background) tasks & items could be safely turned off or changed to "Manual"/"Disabled" (from the default "Automatic" setting) in the Services" list (either via "services.mmc" or the MSConfig), and/or unchecking items & tasks from the Startup tab in MSConfig. 

So anything "in the background" that might be "slowing down" my system is either front and center or deliberate.
But I do not believe that is the problem, cos as I said before - prior to this v22 Norton product, everything was running just fine without persistent errors, or errors of any kind. The worst performance problems I ever suffered was a predictably sluggish system due to heavy workloads (multiple programs open/working, web browser with a lot of tabs, etc). 

Hence, I continue to cast an accusatory glare at my current Norton product, and Norton itself (and its reputation for being a "system resource hog"). 

 

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.

ADDENDUM : 

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

WHY can I not post new comments? This addendum portion refuses to show in the thread after posting it TWICE! If there are "pages" to this thread, I can find them. Have I been "muted" form further commentary? 


 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:24PM · Edited: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:29PM · Permalink

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.

ADDENDUM : 

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

WHY can I not post new comments? This addendum portion refuses to show in the thread after posting it TWICE! If there are "pages" to this thread, I can find them. Have I been "muted" form further commentary? 


 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:24PM · Edited: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:25PM · Permalink

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:26PM · Permalink

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:33PM · Permalink

I tried disabling the entire Exploit Prevention section of the product. It seemed at first like it worked cos Slimjet had closed without any errors, but other programs still triggered the errors upon closing. Mind you, those programs were closed rather "swiftly", meaning I probably clicked the "X" to close immediately after Saving or canceling any current operations within the program, thereby not giving much time for data to be duly processed or something? But as I said previously, I thought computers were supposed to be boasting faster speeds and fewer errors, but it seems we are being straddled with the exact opposite - one must now pause and "count to 10" (or 20, or 100) before closing a program and HOPE that errors of any kind are not triggered. 

As for my system, I have been very meticulous about keeping unwanted/unnecessary background & startup tasks and other crap from running. If I have a background task running, it's there because I want it there. The only time something ever runs without my knowledge is if it's due to a new program I installed runs its own "quick start" and "monitoring/helper" crap, which I either forgot to turn off or was not given the chance to disable pre-emptively during installation. I quickly discover those and kill/disable them.

I also watch closely for third-party junk (malware, spyware, adware) being lumped in with program installations. If I cannot seem to disable or opt-out of the junk and prevet its installation, I abandon the installation entirely.

Years ago I learned which (background) tasks & items could be safely turned off or changed to "Manual"/"Disabled" (from the default "Automatic" setting) in the Services" list (either via "services.mmc" or the MSConfig), and/or unchecking items & tasks from the Startup tab in MSConfig. 

So anything "in the background" that might be "slowing down" my system is either front and center or deliberate.
But I do not believe that is the problem, cos as I said before - prior to this v22 Norton product, everything was running just fine without persistent errors, or errors of any kind. The worst performance problems I ever suffered was a predictably sluggish system due to heavy workloads (multiple programs open/working, web browser with a lot of tabs, etc). 

Hence, I continue to cast an accusatory glare at my current Norton product, and Norton itself (and its reputation for being a "system resource hog"). 

 

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.

ADDENDUM : 

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

WHY can I not post new comments? This addendum portion refuses to show in the thread after posting it TWICE! And EVERY time I edit a previous comment, IT DISAPPEARS!!!

If there are "pages" to this thread, I can find them.
What the hell is going on? Have I been "muted" from further commentary?
I guess this is what happens when you call for Big Tech to take responsibility for their screw-ups and negligence. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:34PM · Permalink

I tried disabling the entire Exploit Prevention section of the product. It seemed at first like it worked cos Slimjet had closed without any errors, but other programs still triggered the errors upon closing. Mind you, those programs were closed rather "swiftly", meaning I probably clicked the "X" to close immediately after Saving or canceling any current operations within the program, thereby not giving much time for data to be duly processed or something? But as I said previously, I thought computers were supposed to be boasting faster speeds and fewer errors, but it seems we are being straddled with the exact opposite - one must now pause and "count to 10" (or 20, or 100) before closing a program and HOPE that errors of any kind are not triggered. 

As for my system, I have been very meticulous about keeping unwanted/unnecessary background & startup tasks and other crap from running. If I have a background task running, it's there because I want it there. The only time something ever runs without my knowledge is if it's due to a new program I installed runs its own "quick start" and "monitoring/helper" crap, which I either forgot to turn off or was not given the chance to disable pre-emptively during installation. I quickly discover those and kill/disable them.

I also watch closely for third-party junk (malware, spyware, adware) being lumped in with program installations. If I cannot seem to disable or opt-out of the junk and prevet its installation, I abandon the installation entirely.

Years ago I learned which (background) tasks & items could be safely turned off or changed to "Manual"/"Disabled" (from the default "Automatic" setting) in the Services" list (either via "services.mmc" or the MSConfig), and/or unchecking items & tasks from the Startup tab in MSConfig. 

So anything "in the background" that might be "slowing down" my system is either front and center or deliberate.
But I do not believe that is the problem, cos as I said before - prior to this v22 Norton product, everything was running just fine without persistent errors, or errors of any kind. The worst performance problems I ever suffered was a predictably sluggish system due to heavy workloads (multiple programs open/working, web browser with a lot of tabs, etc). 

Hence, I continue to cast an accusatory glare at my current Norton product, and Norton itself (and its reputation for being a "system resource hog"). 

 

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.

ADDENDUM : 

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

P.S.
WHY can I not post new comments? This addendum portion refuses to show in the thread after posting it TWICE! And EVERY time I edit a previous comment, IT DISAPPEARS!!!
If there are "pages" to this thread, I can't find them.
What the hell is going on? Have I been "muted" from further commentary?
I guess this is what happens when you call for Big Tech to take responsibility for their screw-ups and negligence. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:36PM · Permalink

I tried disabling the entire Exploit Prevention section of the product. It seemed at first like it worked cos Slimjet had closed without any errors, but other programs still triggered the errors upon closing. Mind you, those programs were closed rather "swiftly", meaning I probably clicked the "X" to close immediately after Saving or canceling any current operations within the program, thereby not giving much time for data to be duly processed or something? But as I said previously, I thought computers were supposed to be boasting faster speeds and fewer errors, but it seems we are being straddled with the exact opposite - one must now pause and "count to 10" (or 20, or 100) before closing a program and HOPE that errors of any kind are not triggered. 

As for my system, I have been very meticulous about keeping unwanted/unnecessary background & startup tasks and other crap from running. If I have a background task running, it's there because I want it there. The only time something ever runs without my knowledge is if it's due to a new program I installed runs its own "quick start" and "monitoring/helper" crap, which I either forgot to turn off or was not given the chance to disable pre-emptively during installation. I quickly discover those and kill/disable them.

I also watch closely for third-party junk (malware, spyware, adware) being lumped in with program installations. If I cannot seem to disable or opt-out of the junk and prevet its installation, I abandon the installation entirely.

Years ago I learned which (background) tasks & items could be safely turned off or changed to "Manual"/"Disabled" (from the default "Automatic" setting) in the Services" list (either via "services.mmc" or the MSConfig), and/or unchecking items & tasks from the Startup tab in MSConfig. 

So anything "in the background" that might be "slowing down" my system is either front and center or deliberate.
But I do not believe that is the problem, cos as I said before - prior to this v22 Norton product, everything was running just fine without persistent errors, or errors of any kind. The worst performance problems I ever suffered was a predictably sluggish system due to heavy workloads (multiple programs open/working, web browser with a lot of tabs, etc). 

Hence, I continue to cast an accusatory glare at my current Norton product, and Norton itself (and its reputation for being a "system resource hog"). 

 

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.

ADDENDUM : 

Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

P.S.
WHY can I not post new comments? This addendum portion refuses to show in the thread after posting it TWICE! And EVERY time I edit a previous comment, IT DISAPPEARS!!!
If there are "pages" to this thread, I can't find them.
What the hell is going on? Have I been "muted" from further commentary?
I guess this is what happens when you call for Big Tech to take responsibility for their screw-ups and negligence. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:36PM · Permalink

Norton has silenced me.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:42PM · Permalink

I tried disabling the entire Exploit Prevention section of the product. It seemed at first like it worked cos Slimjet had closed without any errors, but other programs still triggered the errors upon closing. Mind you, those programs were closed rather "swiftly", meaning I probably clicked the "X" to close immediately after Saving or canceling any current operations within the program, thereby not giving much time for data to be duly processed or something? But as I said previously, I thought computers were supposed to be boasting faster speeds and fewer errors, but it seems we are being straddled with the exact opposite - one must now pause and "count to 10" (or 20, or 100) before closing a program and HOPE that errors of any kind are not triggered. 

As for my system, I have been very meticulous about keeping unwanted/unnecessary background & startup tasks and other crap from running. If I have a background task running, it's there because I want it there. The only time something ever runs without my knowledge is if it's due to a new program I installed runs its own "quick start" and "monitoring/helper" crap, which I either forgot to turn off or was not given the chance to disable pre-emptively during installation. I quickly discover those and kill/disable them.

I also watch closely for third-party junk (malware, spyware, adware) being lumped in with program installations. If I cannot seem to disable or opt-out of the junk and prevet its installation, I abandon the installation entirely.

Years ago I learned which (background) tasks & items could be safely turned off or changed to "Manual"/"Disabled" (from the default "Automatic" setting) in the Services" list (either via "services.mmc" or the MSConfig), and/or unchecking items & tasks from the Startup tab in MSConfig. 

So anything "in the background" that might be "slowing down" my system is either front and center or deliberate.
But I do not believe that is the problem, cos as I said before - prior to this v22 Norton product, everything was running just fine without persistent errors, or errors of any kind. The worst performance problems I ever suffered was a predictably sluggish system due to heavy workloads (multiple programs open/working, web browser with a lot of tabs, etc). 

Hence, I continue to cast an accusatory glare at my current Norton product, and Norton itself (and its reputation for being a "system resource hog"). 

 

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.



Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution :

If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.


If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.
 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 10:56PM · Permalink

I tried disabling the entire Exploit Prevention section of the product. It seemed at first like it worked cos Slimjet had closed without any errors, but other programs still triggered the errors upon closing. Mind you, those programs were closed rather "swiftly", meaning I probably clicked the "X" to close immediately after Saving or canceling any current operations within the program, thereby not giving much time for data to be duly processed or something? But as I said previously, I thought computers were supposed to be boasting faster speeds and fewer errors, but it seems we are being straddled with the exact opposite - one must now pause and "count to 10" (or 20, or 100) before closing a program and HOPE that errors of any kind are not triggered. 

As for my system, I have been very meticulous about keeping unwanted/unnecessary background & startup tasks and other crap from running. If I have a background task running, it's there because I want it there. The only time something ever runs without my knowledge is if it's due to a new program I installed runs its own "quick start" and "monitoring/helper" crap, which I either forgot to turn off or was not given the chance to disable pre-emptively during installation. I quickly discover those and kill/disable them.

I also watch closely for third-party junk (malware, spyware, adware) being lumped in with program installations. If I cannot seem to disable or opt-out of the junk and prevet its installation, I abandon the installation entirely.

Years ago I learned which (background) tasks & items could be safely turned off or changed to "Manual"/"Disabled" (from the default "Automatic" setting) in the Services" list (either via "services.mmc" or the MSConfig), and/or unchecking items & tasks from the Startup tab in MSConfig. 

So anything "in the background" that might be "slowing down" my system is either front and center or deliberate.
But I do not believe that is the problem, cos as I said before - prior to this v22 Norton product, everything was running just fine without persistent errors, or errors of any kind. The worst performance problems I ever suffered was a predictably sluggish system due to heavy workloads (multiple programs open/working, web browser with a lot of tabs, etc). 

Hence, I continue to cast an accusatory glare at my current Norton product, and Norton itself (and its reputation for being a "system resource hog"). 

I should also note, I checked my own "event history" and sure enough, back in August of 2017, I had (for whatever reason) tried the v22 of N360 (or "Norton Security" as it is sometimes confusingly called), and the exact same laundry list of random errors were noted (at least til I got sick of noting every single one). Same programs, same errors. I got fed up with the buggy behavior, the piss-poor efforts from "support", and I rolled back to v21.7, and everything was serene and tranquil once again. 

What myself and other users are experiencing now, is NOT NEW. This problem is at LEAST TWO YEARS OLD.

This problem has existed for XP (and other "legacy" OS) users for at least TWO YEARS, if not longer, and obviously, Norton has done NOTHING to address/fix these issues, save for granting 21.7 users the courtesy of leaving us alone under the "Maintenance Mode" protocol. But that's all shot to hell now. 

I keep bouncing back & forth about uninstalling (with the "CLEAN" instructions"), but you see, I am quite confident that I did that this recent time (as well as every other time), cos again, long ago I learned that Norton was one of those programs that would leave junk behind (old folders, files, config settings, etc) and mess up newer product installation efforts/attempts.

So I have become as meticulous and diligent in checking directories and the Registry for anything that says "Norton", "Symantec" or "N360" (if I find it, I delete it). Granted, I did not do it this last time, cos when I did it 2 years ago, my search following the complete and "clean" uninstall yielded NO remnants and was shown to have removed itself with no leftover junk to be found. 

Unless we are talking about stuff that a user cannot see/find? That may change the game a bit...
I gotta say though, anything that gets embedded THAT deeply is a bit of a concern (if not a red flag) for me, even if it's Norton. 

Anyway, if anyone strongly feels I never did a properly thorough removal of all previous installs prior to v22 being installed - now or 2 years ago - because of "deeply-ingrained components & files not visible to the user", please let me know, and perhaps I will endure one more attempt at installing v22 from scratch (rather than wait for a forced upgrade), and see if that changes anything. If not, then I may try a rollback after another "clean uninstall" and see if I still get forced into an upgrade. Or, do those things vice-versa... I dunno... this whole ordeal has me confused and uncertain. 

I just want the errors and inner conflicts to STOP. I can tolerate the new product otherwise, as I am not experiencing any other malfunctions or queer behaviors beyond programs closing/shutdown.


Oh, and as for increasing the Virtual Memory via Page File? No dice. I tried to go beyond the current 4092 settings I have, but it won't allow it... despite its "recommended" figure is 5323, which gets rejected and a popup message tells me the value has to be under 4096. 

And of course, physical memory is already maxed out with 2 sticks of 2GB RAM, of which only the combine 3.46 GB is "seen" and used. I considered swapping the sticks around, but I don't know if that would help, or even possibly cause more corruption and problems or not.

I really hate to go through all that hassle of uninstalling/reinstalling (followed by the time-consuming task of manually restoring all my personal/custom settings), and swapping RAM sticks around and a bunch of other invasive/disruptive exercises (in futility), but I am running out of options & ideas here, and would much prefer the most LOGICAL and PRACTICAL solution : If Norton could just take some RESPONSIBILITY here, step up and admit they made an oversight or a mistake, and work quickly to investigate and properly correct this issue - an issue which is without a doubt, all caused from their end (via half-assed products that have not been properly tested for XP compatibility) in the first place.

If this persists, I may seriously consider leaving Norton in my rearview and take my chances with Kaspersky or something else, which I admit I don't wanna do, but I am tired of paying almost $200 every 2 years (in subscription renewals) just for this grief and frustration of techs and so-called "customer support" who demonstrate that they know nothing and do even less, about any issue that is not neatly within in their default of dumbed-down little scripts full of pre-packed "answers" and cookie-cutter "solutions" that accomplish nothing.

P.S.
WHY can I not post new comments? This addendum portion refuses to show in the thread after posting it TWICE! And EVERY time I edit a previous comment, IT DISAPPEARS!!!
If there are "pages" to this thread, I can't find them.
What the hell is going on? Have I been "muted" from further commentary?
I guess this is what happens when you call for Big Tech to take responsibility for their screw-ups and negligence. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 07-Mar-2020 | 11:13PM · Edited: 08-Mar-2020 | 12:10AM · Permalink

@WTWASP

I also switched off Exploit Prevention completely, but to NO avail.  Affected programs still show the Referenced Memory error message down to the save hex values...

Except that, you end up with two groups of programs that show the Referenced Memory errors in different hex values.  In other words, two pairs of hex values.  In my case, I only yielded one pair.

As for closing programs, I sometime quick-close via the X button but also do the slower, traditional way (Menu/Exit).  I also tried waiting for a few seconds after a complete task before quitting.  Still, same error result.

The other thing I want to reiterate: with the Photoshop quit error, the error message also mentioned something about "DDE Server Window."  Any idea what that is, and does that give a clue on how v22.x has messed up the XP system?

You're right about the poor history of v22.x since 2015/16, in that Symantec has still FAILED to fix bugs for those still running on XP.  Which is why, despite the published security vulnerabilities, many are still hanging on to v21.7.xx.  The first time I upgraded to v22.x it was customary (voluntary), as I've been doing so with older NIS versions (19 to 20, then to 21) without issue -- until the v22.x upgrade.  The second time (around 2017-18) I got upgraded was due to not unchecking the "Automatic Download of New Version."   I was, in both instances, able to reimage my system to a workable previous state (with v21.x running of course), until this forced hijack on March 3.

Now the other bad news: when the XP system errors occur, fully uninstalling v22.x and reverting to v21.x may NOT help solve the issue, especially when a newer build of v22.x has been installed.  In other words, even with v21.x reinstalled and running, those Referenced Memory errors WILL remain.  That said, I did have one occurrence with another XP laptop where uninstalling v22.x and reverting to v21.7.xx would undo the system error issues concerned, but I suspect that might have been due to an earlier build of v22.x installed.

Why is why, regular (preferably, frequent) system image backups are necessary.  In my case, my last working system backup was created on 12-31-19.  Was planning to do a new image before end of February but was since pushed back, then this forced NIS upgrade occurred......

Anyway I'm going to wait a few days to see if Symantec/NLL is addressing this issue.  If not, then I'm ghosting back again, this time disabling all LU on the v21.x (surprisingly, there is NO switching off of Live Update option on v22.x) and turn to Intelligent Update instead.  This is the part which I've referred to earlier as having gone back to the "stone age" -- manually downloading and updating AV definitions offline.

I only hope those at Norton/Symantec would seriously look into this issue, and to provide a solution two-fold:

a. Immediately amend their Live Update mechanism such that NO more software version upgrades (NOT updates) are injected into older software versions, and force-deployed without consent -- such that users (regardless of system version) who would like remain in v21.x usability can do so without issue;

b. Work out a TRUE fix on v22.x when dealing with especially XP system, such that XP users who have been hijacked from v21.7.x to v22.x (and didn't have their systems appropriately backed up and imaged) will continue to stick to v22.x with no further issue.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 08-Mar-2020 | 4:59AM · Permalink

Foks,

Here's my additional recollection on what has happened during this NIS v22 hijack.  To reiterate, "Automatic Download of New Version" has been set to OFF at all times:

1. March 3 (March 2 PST): Turned on PC in the morning.  Booted up XP.  Shortly after, a task bar balloon showed up saying no AV or firewall was detected.  Manually opened NIS: NOTHING occurred.  Then some of the folder shortcut icons started to disappear;

2. Later in the late afternoon I tried to reinstall from the v21.6.xx installer.  Took long time to complete installation, but then certain v22.xx components kicked in.  Error messages occurred in the v21.6.xx Live Update interface, prompting me to restart.  Once restarted, v22.xx Installation was completed;

3. Manually run Live Update once.  At that point I did NOT take explicit notice on the exact software version.  Was working on three video cutting/editing programs but after the tasks were complete (and new files saved), NO Referenced Memory error messages occurred;

4. Shut down system, but something was hanging during the process (cvchost.exe or something?).  Force quitted that process and shut down system;

5. Booted up PC the next day (March 4/March 3 PST).  Live Update was manually run upon system start.  Later during the day worked with the same video cutting/editing programs.  That's when the Referenced Error messages started to occur;

6. March 6 (March 5 PST): decided to reimage system back to previous working state.  System restored without issue.  At that point v21.7.11 was still intact, but I did not manually apply Live Update.  A while later the PC detected the AV definitions on v21.7.xx were out of date, and somehow Auto-Protect was turned off.  Still I did nothing.  Some time later the forced uninstallation process occurred, causing the NIS v21.x taskbar logo to disappear.  Took an extended time before v22.x was installed, then a new NIS message prompted to restart -- all these without any user control.  After restart the latest v22 build was found.  Ran Live Update again.  Retried the affected programs, and the very same Referenced Memory error messages occurred;

7. XP system remained in faulty state with the Reference Memory errors, as we speak.  At this point, Exploit Prevention has been completely turned off.

This is the best I could recall during this v22 hijack ordeal.  On March 2 (March 1 PST), everything was still operating in normal state.  Absolutely no notification on what was to happen in the next day whatsoever.  Had I known of this bug I should have made a n updated ghost image, before heel broke loose......:(

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 08-Mar-2020 | 9:06AM · Edited: 08-Mar-2020 | 9:32AM · Permalink

anon743:.

...I only hope those at Norton/Symantec would seriously look into this issue, and to provide a solution two-fold:

a. Immediately amend their Live Update mechanism such that NO more software version upgrades (NOT updates) are injected into older software versions, and force-deployed without consent -- such that users (regardless of system version) who would like remain in v21.x usability can do so without issue; ...

Hi anon743:

Sorry to hear that turning off Exploit Prevention in v22.x didn't stop the errors you see when closing your third-party programs.  I'm assuming that Help | About shows that LiveUpdate has patched you to the latest v22.15.2.22 legacy version for Win XP and Vista and that manual LiveUpdates report that no further updates are available after your system is re-booted.

Just an aside, but I'm not certain that product upgrades (i.e., a major version upgrade from v21.x to v22.x) are actually delivered via LiveUpdate.  I don't know how major upgrades are done in v22.x because the original v22.0.x.x was released back in September 2014 and has never been upgraded to a v23.x product.  Every product update I've received so far for my NS v22.x products have come through LiveUpdate because they were considered to be "minor" incremental product updates (e.g., like the product update from v22.14.2 to v22.15.0 I received via LiveUpdate in August 2018).

I'm not sure if this applies to v21.x products, but users with older versions of Norton who could could turn OFF the setting at Settings | Computer | Updates | Automatic Download of New Version to prevent an unwanted upgrade could manually trigger an upgrade in one of two ways when they chose to do so - they could either change that setting back to ON and wait or go to Support | New Version Check.  I believe the upgrade process was managed by a program called the Norton Update Agent (NUA.exe) that would manage the download (which occurred silently in background) and then start the installation process.

See my comments in panzer_88's thread Norton Internet Security 2011 downloaded on computer without permission and wants to install itself about the C:\Users\Public\Downloads\Norton folder and a hidden folder in C:\ProgramData\Norton that were used for these upgrades as well as past Norton employee Tim_Lopez's comments in Ver 18.5.0.125 auto downloaded and wants to install !!??? about how users could opt to decline a "forced" upgrade from v17.x to v18.x that was started by the Norton Update Agent NUA.exe.  According to Tim if users clicked the "Remind Me Later" link, followed by the "Don't Show This Message Again" link in the pop-up messages shown in his screenshots the Norton Update Agent would eventually run a clean-up routine to remove all the downloaded installation files and cancel the upgrade.  That old "forced" upgrade process that would prompt users to accept the upgrade before it ran to completion obviously isn't working now.
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 08-Mar-2020 | 2:19PM · Edited: 08-Mar-2020 | 2:22PM · Permalink

WTWASP:
...I am pretty sure I have (had) the "N360p" version, cos it was "Premier" or whatever - and featured Multi-Device or whatever... honestly, all these piddly variations really complicate and confuse things... Premium vs Premier, Multi-Device, "with xxGB of offline storage", etc - Aren't things confusing enough without making it worse with all these semantics? Hey - ever notice how "Symantec" sounds a lot like "sematic"? 


Anyway, I honestly have NO use for offline storage and multi-device licenses. I have ONE computer and do not trust offline storage - no clouds, no remote servers, nada. That's what eternal local HDD drives and USB flash drives are for. 

 Hi WTWASP:

I don't know what happened to your latest posts in this thread (I received email notifications today but those posts seem to have disappeared) but if Norton doesn't respond soon and you're thinking of performing a clean reinstall of v22.15.2.22 then I'd suggest you switch now to Norton Security Deluxe (which is similar to the old NIS product line and comes with Norton Smart Firewall but no online Norton Backup ) or Norton Security Premium (also known as Norton Security with Backup or NSBU, which is similar to the "old" N360 and comes with Norton Smart Firewall plus online Norton Backup).  You should be able to activate either of those Norton Security products with your "old" N360 product key, and as noted in my clean reinstall instructions <above> you can download the legacy NS Deluxe or NS Premium offline installers using the links in my thread Download Links for NS/NSBU v22.15.1.8 Installers (XP and Vista) in Step 1 of the clean reinstall, skip Step 8 (since v22.x products don't have the option at Settings | Computer | Updates | Automatic Download of New Version to disable future upgrades) and make sure you're fully patched to v22.15.2.22 (released April 2019) in Step 10.  The main difference in all these product lines is that most of the old NAV/NIS/N360 products can only be installed on Windows PCs (unless you have the old N360 Multi-Device), while newer Norton Security (NS) products are all mutli-device and can be installed on Windows PCs, Macs, and other select Android/iOS smartphones and tablets.

If you want to do an extra-deep scrub of any remnants of older Norton installations before the Step 7 reinstall that weren't wiped by the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool's advanced "Remove Only" mode I would still strongly advise that you contact Norton LifeLock customer support at https://www.norton.com/chat and ask them for a list for a list a common locations on a 32-bit or 64-bit Win XP SP3 computer where remnants might be found.  I don't recommend the following for other users, but here's what I did before switching from v21.x to v22.x on my own 32-bit Vista SP2 machine:

  1. Create a system restore point (I went a step further and also created a full disk image with Macrium Reflect Free and had emergency rescue media created with Macrium on hand)
  2. Run the Registry Editor (regedit) and create a backup of the registry
  3. Expand HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ and delete all Symantec and Norton folders
  4. Expand HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\ and delete all Symantec and Norton folders (including old SymNRA and SymNRT folders)
  5. Expand HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\ and delete all Symantec and Norton folders
  6. Exit the Registry Editor
  7. Check C:\Program Files and delete all Symantec and Norton folders
  8. Check C:\ProgramData and delete all Symantec and Norton folders (including C:\ProgramData\NortonInstaller)
  9. Check the hidden C:\Users\<yourusername>\AppData and delete all Symantec and Norton folders (although I don't recall finding stray files in that location after running the NRnR tool in "Remove Only" mode)

----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 08-Mar-2020 | 2:41PM · Edited: 08-Mar-2020 | 2:42PM · Permalink

Hi WTWASP:

IMPORTANT NEWS.  Norton employee Gayathri_R has just posted Active Customers in the Legacy Versions Are Being Upgraded in the Product Updates Announcements blog explaining the reason for the forced upgrades.  Better late than never.
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 08-Mar-2020 | 4:35PM · Permalink

My last couple of replies disappeared because I could not get new replies to post, so I tried adding to previous replies (which I posted consecutively - 2 out of 3 successfully before #3 suddenly would not post), and when I hit "Save", the entire reply vanished. 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 08-Mar-2020 | 8:36PM · Permalink

@lmacri

Actually it was me who contacted Gayathri_R over the weekend regarding the forced upgrade issue.  Instead he posted that notice to justify such hijack.  What an insult!!

Now I'll have to contact him again explaining the issues with v22.x and re-describe the system error issues.

If a company wants its customers to stick with the latest software available then it should've thoroughly tested and verified to be bug-free.  But here, after some FIVE years since initial v22.x deployment, this is still NOT the case.

Pathetic!!

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 6:37AM · Permalink

Hi peterweb:

After reading Gayathri_R's announcement Active Customers in the Legacy Versions Are Being Upgraded I'm still not clear what happens to Win XP SP3 users with older CPUs that do not support the SSE2 instruction set (e.g., Pentium III and earlier).  Have the Gurus been told if these forced upgrades only apply to Win XP SP3, Vista SP2 and Win 7 (with no SP1 service pack) with CPUs that support SSE2 or higher, or has the v21.7.0.11 software been discontinued for all Norton customers?
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 7:21AM · Edited: 09-Mar-2020 | 7:38AM · Permalink

anon743:
...Now I'll have to contact him again explaining the issues with v22.x and re-describe the system error issues....

Hi anon743:

Now that we know that the forced upgrade to NS Deluxe/Premium v22.15.2.22 on Win XP SP3, Vista SP2 and Win 7 (without SP1) machines was deliberate I'm hoping that Norton will be able to find the cause of the "memory could not be read" errors both you and WTWASP are experiencing.  I read the PDFs <here> of your chat sessions with Norton LifeLock customer support (and completely understand your frustration) and it sounds like you can't run the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool in advanced "Remove Only" mode without damaging your old Norton Ghost software, but perhaps Gayathri_R or someone else from Norton will be able to provide an alternate method for performing a thorough wipe of older Norton antivirus installations from your system so you can at least try a "cleaner" reinstall of NS v22.15.2.22.

If a reinstall of NS v22.15.2.22 doesn't help perhaps Norton will be able to find some common hardware or software component on your and WTWASP's Win XP SP3 machines that's causing your errors.  Outdated hardware drivers and certain third-party utilities can cause issues with a variety of antivirus programs, including Norton [for example, outdated drivers for various Atheros network cards (see <here>), an outdated igdpmd64.sys driver for select AMD HD Radeon graphics cards (see <here>), utilities that mimic the Win 10 Fast Startup feature in older operating systems like the Gigabyte's FastBoot and EasyTunes utilites that use the Gigabyte gdrv.sys driver (see <here>) and Lenovo's RapidBoot software (see <here>, etc.). Hopefully someone from Norton's 2nd tier support will be able to collect diagnostic logs from both your systems and find a common cause.

...As we speak I'm now forced to run on NIS v22.x and it seems to slow down PC performance quite a bit.  I've yet to check if other programs (MS Office, Acrobat etc.) are affected, as reported some years ago with earlier v22.x versions....

I should also mention that the above quote from your 03-Mar-2020 post in Norton Security.......Automatically Uninstalled might refer to the v22.5 conflict with Microsoft's Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit (EMET) that was discussed in gamott2015's 2015 thread MS Word, Adobe Acrobat won't open Is NIS Optimizer the cause?  That's why I asked OP WTWASP <above> if they had EMET or any other security software that included exploit protection installed on their system just in case that problem has reappeared in v22.15.2.22.
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 7:25AM · Edited: 09-Mar-2020 | 7:38AM · Permalink

I thought I made it clear that my system is Win XP with SP3 and after the Speccy thing it is revealed I have that "SSE2" support, and yet I still have "Application Error" popups when closing an array of programs, citing a "reference to memory" that cannot be "read". The error can be the exact same one every time, for a number of programs, or it can vary slightly with each error, or it can be specific errors for specific programs. Not sure why there's still so much head-scratching about this? 

Par for the course from Norton, I am very disappointed to say.

This is a simplified collection of errors I have experienced since this piece of v22.xx junk was forced onto my machine : 

Slimjet Browser : 
 Application Error : slimjet.exe
 Popup : CSpNotify Notify Window
  2020-MAR-03 : 11:29:05  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x238291da.
  2020-MAR-04 : 05:44:02  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x0b5691da.
  2020-MAR-04 : 15:08:45  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x182d91da.
  2020-MAR-05 : 10:49:43  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x221291da.
  2020-MAR-06 : 06:37:40  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x240991da.
  2020-MAR-08 : 03:31:30  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x171591da.
  2020-MAR-08 : 11:12:34  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x211991da.

Chrome Browser :
 Application Error : chrome.exe
  2020-MAR-05 : 05:55:40  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x16bd91da.

HP LTX 4300 Scanner : 
 Application Error : hppsapp.exe (HP LTX 4300 Scanner)  
 Popup : DDE Server Window
  2020-MAR-03 : 22:34:35  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-03 : 22:38:21  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-03 : 22:52:45  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

JRMC Media Editor :
 Application Error : Media Editor.exe
  2020-MAR-04 : 01:07:47  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
 Application Error : Media Jukebox.exe
  2020-MAR-04 : 06:04:03  The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

ArcSoft PhotoStudio :
 Application Error : Tools : PhotoStudio.exe
  2020-MAR-04 : 02:47:22  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-04 : 06:26:15  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-05 : 01:28:38  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-06 : 00:30:04  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-06 : 05:06:44  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-06 : 21:46:38  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

OpenOffice :                             
 Application Error : soffice.exe (Open Office 1·1·4)  
 DDE Server Window
  2020-MAR-06 : 00:39:16  
The exception unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x09ec91da.

Notepad : 
 Application Error : Notepad.exe
  2020-MAR-06 : 14:43:20  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

VLC Player :
 Application Error : vlc.exe
  2020-MAR-06 : 09:27:58  
unknown software exception (0x40000015) occurred in the application at location 0x034191da.

WordPad : 
 Application Error : wordpad.exe
  2020-MAR-07 : 23:06:31  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".
  2020-MAR-08 : 03:11:15  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

These programs I rarely ever use and will probably get rid of one day, but these got also dinged the one and only time I ran them in ages : 

MP4Muxer : 
 Application Error : mp4muxer.exe 
 .NET-BroadcastEventWindow.2.0.0.0.378734a.0
  2020-MAR-07 : 06:07:53  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

FVD (Free video Downloader & Converter) : 
 Application Error : fvd.exe 
  2020-MAR-07 : 06:18:30  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

DVD Backup : 
 Application Error : dvdbackup.exe 
  2020-MAR-07 : 07:12:10  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".

DVDVideomedia Free DVD Ripper :
 Application Error : DVDVideoMedia Free DVD Ripper.exe
  2020-MAR-07 : 07:22:15  
The instruction at "0x7c90ff56" referenced memory at "0x00000586". The memory could not be "read".


Surely those error names and hexa-whats-it code must be a clue to something? What could it be in Norton that would prompt them? 

These errors occurred even way back when I first gave v22.xx a try TWO YEARS AGO. And evidently NOTHING HAS CHANGED or been done about fixing this! 
Again, par for the course.

Clearly, I am NOT the only one having these issues! In addition Anon's input, I have done Google searches to find it's a much more common issue than Norton will ever admit to. MANY users having the SAME problems!! 

I am getting a little ticked off and impatient because all I've received os far from so-called "support" is instructions to do more invasive, disruptive, time-consuming exercise-in-futility crap to my system that will just result in a less-than-protected OS, rather than taking responsibility for their crappy product and fixing it. 

Posting articles about the whats and whys of force-feeding us untested and buggy-behavior software without bothering to acknowledge that there is a problem for us end-users, is not going to make the issues magically go away! They will also not make us just accept these asinine decisions and go away silent into the night...

PS.
Seems I got muted or flagged as spam there for a while, folks, which is why my recent replies vanished (editing and saving made them get deleted) and I could not post new replies until now. 


 

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 12:37PM · Edited: 09-Mar-2020 | 12:54PM · Permalink

WTWASP:

I thought I made it clear that my system is Win XP with SP3 and after the Speccy thing it is revealed I have that "SSE2" support, and yet I still have "Application Error" popups when closing an array of programs, citing a "reference to memory" that cannot be "read". ...

Hi WTWASP:

I wasn't referring to your system.  My question was directed to Guru peterweb because there are other Win XP SP3 users who post in this forum with older CPUs that don't support SSE2 and can't install legacy v22.15.2.22 Norton products. I'd like to know if the auto-upgrader checks the SSE/SSE2 compatibility of the CPU and aborts the forced upgrade on these older machines and allows them to keep v21.7.0.11, or if these folks have paid for a Norton subscription that is now useless because v21.7.0.11 has been discontinued.  That scenario wasn't addressed in Gayathri_R's announcement Active Customers in the Legacy Versions Are Being Upgraded .

The error can be the exact same one every time, for a number of programs, or it can vary slightly with each error, or it can be specific errors for specific programs. Not sure why there's still so much head-scratching about this? ......Clearly, I am NOT the only one having these issues! In addition Anon's input, I have done Google searches to find it's a much more common issue than Norton will ever admit to. MANY users having the SAME problems!! ...

Please provide links for these threads, preferably if they were posted in this forum by Win XP SP3 or Vista SP2 users using a legacy version of Norton v22.15.2.22 or earlier.  You declined to provide a full Speccy profile so the only detailed specs we've seen for your system are for your i5 quad core 760 processor with Turbo Boost, and that only tells me that you're running Win XP SP3 on a system that probably isn't typical of most Win XP SP3 / NS v22.15.2.22 users who have still have their original 15 year-old hardware .  I don't know if there's something unusual about your system configuration (e.g., if your Win XP OS is running on a virtual machine, if you have a gaming machine with an overclocked CPU, etc.) and I understand your frustration with the way these forced upgrades were rolled out, but I suspect you aren't going to find an answer to your problem until Norton's 2nd tier support has collected detailed diagnostic logs from a few different users currently seeing these "memory could not be read" errors and found something common to all your machines.
---------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos1 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 6:58PM · Permalink

lmacri:

Hi peterweb:

After reading Gayathri_R's announcement Active Customers in the Legacy Versions Are Being Upgraded I'm still not clear what happens to Win XP SP3 users with older CPUs that do not support the SSE2 instruction set (e.g., Pentium III and earlier).  Have the Gurus been told if these forced upgrades only apply to Win XP SP3, Vista SP2 and Win 7 (with no SP1 service pack) with CPUs that support SSE2 or higher, or has the v21.7.0.11 software been discontinued for all Norton customers?
----------
32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Deluxe v22.15.2.22 * MB Free v3.5.1
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

No. We have not been given any information prior to the product announcement. I had already flagged the issue about older OS's and hardware, and the reply I got was that they were checking with the team on this.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 7:01PM · Permalink

anon743:

@lmacri

Actually it was me who contacted Gayathri_R over the weekend regarding the forced upgrade issue.  Instead he posted that notice to justify such hijack.  What an insult!!

Now I'll have to contact him again explaining the issues with v22.x and re-describe the system error issues.

If a company wants its customers to stick with the latest software available then it should've thoroughly tested and verified to be bug-free.  But here, after some FIVE years since initial v22.x deployment, this is still NOT the case.

Pathetic!!

Remember that Gayathri is just the messenger. She just passes on what she has been told. She does not make any of the decisions.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 09-Mar-2020 | 11:43PM · Permalink

@peterweb

The resentment is NOT on Gayathri_R of course, but instead the company.  Can you feel how frustrating affected users are when an application problem/bug (ie. v22.x) exists since its inception some FIVE years ago, and that the problem still persists (in similar ways)?

And when such problems are not fixed, then the only recourse would be to remain in an older (and stable) software version (v21.x), until all bugs are fixed -- pretty much what IT techs would do in their software update/migration/etc. strategy.  But now, having coincided with the Broadcom assets transfer, even this option is GONE because of the force hijack.

The problem is, how many in the company are actually reading this, and start diagnosing the problem and issue a fix?  Do remember that there are still a plethora of legacy system users where their PCs are their lifeline.

@lmacri
I don't know much about chipset instructions whatever, but my affected XP desktop runs on Core 2 Duo (E8500) with SSE2 support.  What does that have to do with this forced software upgrade hijack?

BTW as we speak, I'm running Norton SymHelp for all data logging, per Gayathri_R's instructions.  Once done I'll post the results here and in my original thread.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 10-Mar-2020 | 1:18AM · Permalink

Oh great. I finally got un-silenced and now all my repost efforts suddenly reappeared, making me look like my own echo chamber (same reply [posted 2-3 times)... I hope it doesn't cause any further confusion for anyone. 

Anyway, I'm just catching up on the replies...

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:05AM · Edited: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:15AM · Permalink

I wasn't referring to your system.  My question was directed to Guru peterweb because there are other Win XP SP3 users who post in this forum with older CPUs that don't support SSE2 and can't install legacy v22.15.2.22 Norton products.

Yes, I realized that later. My bad. 

Please provide links for these threads, preferably if they were posted in this forum by Win XP SP3 or Vista SP2 users using a legacy version of Norton v22.15.2.22 or earlier.

I don't have those links - they were in a number of Google searches and I did not save or jot down any of them - if I found them in a Google search, surely someone more savvy with computers can do the same. I am done wasting my time doing all the legwork and heavy lifting in the way of research and problem-solving (which has been my experience with so-called customer service in the past, which includes but is not limited to Norton).

Here's my perspective : I am the customer/client. I pay my money (annually or usually every 2 years) for a service and/or product under the natural assumption that the product will work as intended/expected (which it did until March 2 after the forced upgrades) and if it does not, then competent and swift service will be provided to make it so. I'm still waiting on that.

It is the technicians/CSRs' job to do the research and troubleshoot and do trial & error experiments and deduce an explanation/solution. I have provided as much information as I possibly can, which should be more than enough to at least be a starting point for what the Norton product may be doing to cause those issues in my system and its installed programs which prior to all this, have never exhibited any kind of instability or error-prone behavior whatsoever. 

My system is old, and as such, it is delicate, especially with all my customizations and tweaks (let me STOP everyone right there ; before blaming my "tweaks" as the root of any problems or errors, let me inform/remind you that these tweaks have been in place for many years and never caused any problems), and even without any customizations, a system such as mine is not up to torture tests and "trial & error" troubleshooting experimentation, which is what I often get from the so-called "support". These usually include instructions to turn on/off several sensitive/complex settings of my system, and/or uninstall/reinstall entire programs (including but not limited to Norton) with not even the slightest bit of certainty it will even resolve anything, other than a higher-than-likely probability of causing me more problems than I started out with (i.e. the "sfc /scannow" suggestion is just a small example of that - all that did was screw up my video card drivers).

My system is NOT a guinea pig, thank you. Please fInd another XP w/SP3 32-bit system to run the dice-rolling experiments on, and let me know the findings. 

 You declined to provide a full Speccy profile so the only detailed specs we've seen for your system are for your i5 quad core 760 processor with Turbo Boost, and that only tells me that you're running Win XP SP3 on a system that probably isn't typical of most Win XP SP3 / NS v22.15.2.22 users who have still have their original 15 year-old hardware . 

I said I was leery on disclosing my system's entire specs without any proposed theories to warrant it. If there is something in particular that should be examined, fine, I'll share that and/or have a look and report back. 

I don't know if there's something unusual about your system configuration (e.g., if your Win XP OS is running on a virtual machine, if you have a gaming machine with an overclocked CPU, etc.)

I have not received any new "major" hardware in recent weeks (pertaining to motherboards, processors, RAM, etc), outside of a new 500W power supply on New Year's Eve. Prior to that, the only new hardware added (in the fall) was a peripheral 7-port PCIe card for USB3 devices, and prior to that (in the spring/summer) a complete array of new HDDs (1 internal for the OS, and the other 4 connected externally via enclosures), as the original volumes were pushing their 10th anniversary, and getting full (capacity upgrades were needed regardless of age). The drives were/are still running fine with no issues, just getting older and not something you wanna wait to fail before replacing. 

In other words, no new hardware that would suddenly cause these application errors (for programs upon normal shutdown/closing) out of the blue, errors which coincide ONLY with the new Norton product's installation. 

And no other settings (like overclocking - whatever that even is?), either.
My aforementioned "tweaks" consist primarily of cosmetic settings and little things. The most "integrated" one being a custom boot screen and a welcome/login screen (never an issue with those). Everything else is just minor applications and utility tools, which have never caused any conflicts with anything I run. 

To touch back on the Speccy thing...
I was (and still am) apprehensive about releasing all my system's specs, because, without any demonstrative effort on Norton's part to even "educatedly speculate" on a probable/logical cause (this issue does not strike me as one that should be overly complicated to diagnose, for some reason?), I'm not keen on handing over information that could be "used against me" (it has happened many times before!). 

My first instinct, were I a technician, would be to look at the NORTON PRODUCT (the common denominator of ALL us XP/VIsta/7 users) and examine what it has been designed to do - what "new" changes and modifications has it received since the 21.xx version (the last-best working version fully compatible with 32-bit systems like XP), and look at things like : How much (more) memory and system resources is it demanding?
How much overbearing control is it taking over the system and/or certain programs/functions (3rd-party and otherwise)?

I worry, that by "showing all my cards" so to speak, Norton will do the lazy thing (as they usually have done in my experience) and just randomly point the finger at something on MY end, citing my "old dinosaur of a system" as the problem and blame that (despite it being/causing NO trouble prior), and spew out the robotic rhetoric of "time to upgrade your computer", rather than really objectively examine the issue (which I firmly believe lies with the Norton product and NOT all the VARIOUS and differing OSes of end-users), without "benefit" of knowing my system too intimately for scapegoating purposes. 

Does that make sense to anyone other than myself? 

I would have thought that the names and types of errors being experienced (which I provided a list of) would provide a savvy tech with at least some modicum of insight and starting point? Something to connect a few dots between the new Norton product and these older systems. Maybe I am wrong? Maybe I am expecting too much and giving too much credit? 

I understand your frustration with the way these forced upgrades were rolled out, but I suspect you aren't going to find an answer to your problem until Norton's 2nd tier support has collected detailed diagnostic logs from a few different users currently seeing these "memory could not be read" errors and found something common to all your machines.

Well let's hope the "2nd Tier" is swift and sincere in their efforts and come up with a LOGICAL explanation, and in turn, some PRACTICAL/SENSIBLE solutions (with "rolling back to v21.xx and turning off LU" NOT being among them!!)...

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:08AM · Edited: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:09AM · Permalink

@WTWASP

This has been an ongoing problem regarding posts being made, submitted, then held for moderation for an unknown amount of time.  This results in the misconception that the post made might not have gone thorough (but instead held for moderation without notice).

I too have had legit posts made, oftentimes including important information, that got moderated until days later..  This is inconvenient especially when sharing time-dependent information etc.

Next time try to be a bit more patient.  Even if your posts are held briefly out of other's view, you should be able to see them yourself when logged in.

Kudos0

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:13PM · Permalink

I only reposted multiple times thinking the first time didn't take proper, and then thinking my login session may have timed out (again), and a couple of other explanations - none of which included the possibility of "held pending moderator review". Especially when it wasn't happening at first. Like you said, "without warning" is not helpful - it's confusing and inconvenient. I'll know for next time though. 

I still have not had the chance to run that SymTool thing that collects data. I still don't fully understand how it works, but I see my PM inbox shows replies os maybe I'll have it spelled out for me in there, lol. 

For now, I am trying something else, but waiting to see if it is actually working or if I simply have not done anything to trigger the errors before I start suggesting it and adding to the confusion.

 

Kudos1 Stats

Re: FORCED NORTON PRODUCT (N360) UPGRADE CAUSING APPLICATION ERRORS IN XP!

Posted: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:23PM · Edited: 10-Mar-2020 | 2:30PM · Permalink

@ WTWASP

You really need to put in some effort on the SymHelp diagnosis.  If you turn away or procrastinate then you're not helping yourself and others (like me), as well as the Symantec team, to help diagnose the problem before they can provide a REAL fix.

I'm slowing losing patience too.  Right now I'll let v22.x run because I've been asked by certain admin to provide log data and other info.  But once I finally snap, I'll reimage my system again to where v21.x has left off, turn off Live Update, turn to Intelligent Update, and move on.  When that happens there will be one LESS affected XP customer who can provide the logs, and the unsolved problem will remain forever.

BTW, refer to my thread again
https://community.norton.com/en/forums/recent-forced-nis-update-xp-sp3-v...

From now on I'll update the thread whenever I find a new program being affected by the same Reference Memory error issue.
The additional programs that are now affected include
- Exact Audio Copy
- WinRAR

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