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Kudos0

Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 20-Aug-2020 | 8:59AM · 31 Replies ·

Earlier this year Norton forced an update via Live Update for Windows XP SP3 to NIS 22.15.3.20 from the previous version. Strangely, it installs as a trial version on an active account.

My 91 year old mother received the update, but wasn't aware that it needed to be activated. The 30 day trial version expired and is now preventing activation of an active subscription. When opening, I get an activation screen with two activation links. It tries to connect to the Symantec server, but fails or I get a blank subscription window other than the title or I get a message "Unexpected browser error".

So I uninstalled NIS through the control panel, complete including user data. I downloaded and reinstalled NIS version 21.6.0.32 and when opening, it activated successfully and shows an active subscription. In settings I have "look for new version and auto live update" set to off, but with the first manual live update, a new version is forced and installed with a 300+MB download. After two restarts it gets installed, but I continually end up with an expired trial version that is impossible to activate a subscription.

Activating links to Symantec servers fail and I ran the "get support" feature and it reports that my internet connect failed, even though I just download and installed two versions of NIS and ran live update to get the new version. Secondly, in the expired trial version, under Help, the links "Enter product key and Subscription status" under Account Information are missing.

Long story short, how do I get rid of the expired trial version that continually comes back to haunt me after many attempts at a reinstall and activate? Will the Norton removal/reinstall tool fix this?

Thanks for a resolution

Labels: LiveUpdate, Activation, Installation, Windows XP
Accepted Solution
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 11:43AM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 11:44AM · Permalink

I found some time to work on this today.

I had a new product key that I had tried before but reported invalid and that live chat stated was used already.

Went to Norton.com enroll and signed in. Hadn't tried this method before.

Entered the same new product key and downloaded the download manager.

Installed and it started and I got the expired trial version activate screen again. Crapped my pants.

Clicked on activate and got the communicating with the Norton server message and a blank subscription window.

After a few seconds the blank subscription window showed "activating".

After a restart I got an active 22.15.3.20 without running live update.

All good.

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Replies

Kudos2 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 21-Aug-2020 | 5:52AM · Edited: 21-Aug-2020 | 5:55AM · Permalink

Hi BPaul:

I recently stopped using Norton on my Vista SP2 machine but I might be able to help. Norton recently discontinued all Norton v21.x and earlier products and started automatically upgrading Win XP / Vista users to Norton v22.15.x (the legacy version for older, unsupported OSs) - see the 08-Mar-2020 product update announcement Active Customers in Legacy Versions are Being Upgraded as well as the 13- May 2020 product update announcement Announcing End of Life for Old Product Versions on Windows.  That means if you reinstall with any Norton v21.x installer that you'll just get stuck with another forced upgrade to a Norton v22.15.x product.

Also note that the initial round of forced upgrades to Norton v22.15.2 back in March 2020 caused serious problems for Win XP SP3 users - see anon743's 05-Mar-2020 thread Recent Forced NIS Update on XP (SP3) From v21.7.xx to v22.xx for one example. According to the 15-Apr-2020 product update announcement Norton 22.15.3 for Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 SP0 is Now Available! the latest legacy Norton v22.15.3.20 has solved the "Application error when closing app in Window XP" problem described in anon743's thread, but anon743 reported <here> some Win XP SP3 users were still having issues syncing to their Norton Account to check their subscription status (e.g., Help | Subscription Status) with the latest v22.15.3.

See my recent 12-Aug-2020 post in MDG's Norton Removal Tool Corrupted Cannot Uninstall or Renew.  There are some hints in that thread about using an older version of the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool to remove the last remnants of older Norton v21.x products before reinstalling Norton v22.15.3 (although MDG hasn't replied yet to let me know if that suggestion helped) as well as links to Norton Security v22.15 full (offline) installers that can be used for the reinstall instead of your old NIS v21.x installer.  The next time you try a reinstall, uninstall Norton from Control Panel | Programs | Programs and Features and choose the option to "Please remove all user data" as you did before.  Then run the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tools [both the current NRnR tool v4.5.0.104 from the support article Download and Run the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool as well as the older NRnR tool v4.4.0.71 (Win XP/Vista/Win 7 only, available at https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/norton-removal-tool/] in advanced "Remove Only" mode (Advanced Options | Remove Only | Remove - ignore the prompt to reinstall Norton after the system restarts) before reinstalling with the full offline v22.15 installer as instructed in MDG's thread.  As noted in MDG's thread, it will take a few rounds of LiveUpdates and re-boots to get fully patched back to the latest v22.15.3.20 again once the reinstall is finished.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 21-Aug-2020 | 7:11AM · Edited: 21-Aug-2020 | 7:14AM · Permalink

Thanks for the reply. I had seen your posts yesterday and my next step was to download and run the removal tool.

Just to clarify, this issue only occurs if the forced upgrade was not activated before the 30 day trial expiration. On other XP PCs I had experience with, if the trial is activated within 30 days with an active subscription, I get the message "NIS is already installed on this device" and it is activated without any issue.

If a device has an active subscription Norton should automatically activate the upgrade instead of sticking a customer with an expiring trial version, or make it very clear to 91 year olds that it needs to be activated within 30 days or you're stuck without active security software that will be a chore to reinstall.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 1:02PM · Edited: 22-Aug-2020 | 1:03PM · Permalink

The Norton removal/reinstall tool had no effect on removing or resetting the expired trial version.

I'm not able to activate my subscription as long as I keep ending up with an expired trial.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 2:45PM · Edited: 22-Aug-2020 | 2:46PM · Permalink

FYI the older removal tool 4.4.0.71 gives the message that it has expired when trying to run it.

I had a chat session today and Norton wasn't able to resolve the issue. I asked how I could remove or reset the expired trial version or have them do it, and they would never reply to my repeated questions if that could be done.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 2:50PM · Edited: 22-Aug-2020 | 2:58PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul,

The next time you try a reinstall, uninstall Norton from Control Panel | Programs | Programs and Features and choose the option to "Please remove all user data" as you did before.  Then run the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tools [both the current NRnR tool v4.5.0.104 from the support article Download and Run the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool as well as the older NRnR tool v4.4.0.71 (Win XP/Vista/Win 7 only, available at https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/norton-removal-tool/(link is external)]

Did you run both, the current NRnR and the older NRT removal tools back to back prior to reinstalling? 

EDIT - never mind, just saw your update. 
 

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 4:04PM · Edited: 22-Aug-2020 | 4:27PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul:

I've contacted a Norton LifeLock employee who's recently had success removing older versions of NIS and asked them to review your thread, so hopefully they'll either reply here soon or send you a private message with a link to the correct removal tool.

If the older version of the Norton Remove and Reinstall tool [NRnR.exe v v4.4.0.71 for Win XP/Vista/Win 7 only, available at https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/norton-removal-tool/] won't run correctly then it's possible you actually need another removal tool - the old Norton Removal Tool (NRT.exe) that was retired back in 2017 per my thread Has the Norton Removal Tool (NRT) Been Discontinued?.  Hopefully, someone from Norton LifeLock will be able to clarify what removal tool you need to use and help you get Norton v22.15.3 working on your Mom's Win XP SP3 machine.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 7:43PM · Permalink

BPaul,

I have been experiencing something similar with a Windows XP sp3 machine.  In my case I had just installed a new disc.   Everything went fine until I tried to re-install Norton Internet Security.  Initially I could only install an old version, which would crashed during the third live update.   The reason the newer versions of Norton wouldn’t install was because the certificates were out of date so I copied the newer certificates from another XP machine and then ran the current version of NRnR which installed version 22.15.3.20 automatically.  This was installed as a trial version and if I try to activate it I got the same blank Subscription screen you get.  I have version 22.20.5.39 installed on a Windows 10 machine and the subscription screen has a username and a password window and I expect the XP Subscription page is meant to be the same.  I have also noticed that the subscription page on the XP machine can freeze which makes me suspect there is an incompatibility problem with the graphics.

To investigate this further I got out an old Netbook, which has Windows XP installed and tried to reactivate Norton IS.  This old version of Norton IS could not contact the Norton server so I ran NRnR, which removed the old version of Norton IS and tried to install a new version.  The re-installation failed but I was able to login to my Norton account from the Netbook and download Norton IS.  Norton IS version 22.15.3.20 downloaded as a trial version.  However, this time when I clicked activation it went straight into the activation process.  It would appear that by downloading Norton from my account it didn’t need to go through the login stage during activation. Hence, I think the work around may be to uninstall Norton IS, login to your Norton account and download Norton IS from your account. 

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 8:56PM · Edited: 22-Aug-2020 | 8:58PM · Permalink

Reply to Imacri

The oldest version of NIS that was ever installed in this device was about one year ago version 21.6.0.32. That still installs online from last years download manager file and activates.

I do have a really old removal tool from 2011.

I did also try the offline install of NIS 22.15.0.88 an when it starts and tries to automatically activate it fails. I run the get support feature and it runs auto fix and reports fails across the board, including internet connection failed. My internet connection is working.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 9:04PM · Permalink

Reply to Ian Davis 4

The next thing I am going to try is downloading from my account. Not sure exactly how to do that since from what I've seen, you need to go through a purchase process. I have a product key from a retail package.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 9:33PM · Edited: 22-Aug-2020 | 9:51PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul,

Just to clarify, when you log into your My Norton Account and then in the upper right corner mouse over the icon next to your name and then select subscriptions, what does it show?  

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 22-Aug-2020 | 9:59PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul,

The activation process should have recordered you key in your account.  I used to buy a new retail version each year because it was cheaper and the keys to all the old versions are shown in my account.   

As JJ_ says you should login to your Norton account.  There should be a download link there.  The same page should show you how many seats you have.  I think the norm is 3 seats but I have some old defunct keys that only have one seat.  If you only have one seat you may need to release it.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 12:01AM · Permalink

The oldest version of NIS that was ever installed in this device was about one year ago version 21.6.0.32. That still installs online from last years download manager file and activates.

Was this the first time Norton was installed on this machine?  Did you use a Retail Key Card to activate it?  When does your current subscription expire?

Not sure exactly how to do that since from what I've seen, you need to go through a purchase process

Was it by chance asking for a credit card when you were trying to activate the pushed upgrade?  Did it by chance reference something about Auto Renewal?

I believe all renewing subscriptions now require you to provide a payment method for auto renewal. Even those that purchased a retail product (w/Key Card) will now have to provide a payment method in order to activate the product. 

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 5:36AM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 6:06AM · Permalink

Ian Davis 4:

....I have been experiencing something similar with a Windows XP sp3 machine....This was installed as a trial version and if I try to activate it I got the same blank Subscription screen you get....

...To investigate this further I got out an old Netbook, which has Windows XP installed and tried to reactivate Norton IS.  This old version of Norton IS could not contact the Norton server so I ran NRnR, which removed the old version of Norton IS and tried to install a new version.  The re-installation failed but I was able to login to my Norton account from the Netbook and download Norton IS.  Norton IS version 22.15.3.20 downloaded as a trial version.  However, this time when I clicked activation it went straight into the activation process.  It would appear that by downloading Norton from my account it didn’t need to go through the login stage during activation. Hence, I think the work around may be to uninstall Norton IS, login to your Norton account and download Norton IS from your account. 

Hi Ian Davis 4:

Thanks for that valuable feedback.

From the change log for Norton v22.15.3.20 (released 15-Apr-2020) at Norton 22.15.3 for Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 SP0 is Now Available!:

4. What's new in Norton 22.15.3.20?

  • Pre-seeding of certificates compatible with NLOK signatures
  • New logo changes
  • Domain name changes for critical URLs
  • Fixed the below issues:
    • Application error when closing app in Window XP - Thread
    • Despite being connected, Diagnostic Report reports 'No Internet Connectivity" - Thread
  • Other minor fixes and performance enhancements

As far as I know, the above problems mentioned about about NLOK signatures and "No Internet Connectivity" were exclusive to Win XP SP3 users who were forced to upgrade from v21.x to v22.15.2.22 (rel. 29-Mar-2109) and did not cause problems for Vista SP2 users who received the same forced upgrade.  Based on your feedback it appears that these connectivity issues aren't entirely fixed for Win XP SP3 users yet if they receive a 30-day "trial" version of Norton v22.15.3 (or try to reinstall with an older full offline installer for Norton v22.15.0 to v22.15.2 as I previously suggested to BPaul) and must then connect to the backend servers to activate the installation.

This is pure speculation on my part, but it's possible the small stub installer (download manager) you downloaded directly from your Norton Account at https://my.norton.com/account/subscriptions that handles the entire download and installation process worked because it automatically pre-activated the installation with the 25-digit product key associated with the subscription.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 6:00AM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 6:11AM · Permalink

Ian Davis 4:

...As JJ_ says you should login to your Norton account.  There should be a download link there.  The same page should show you how many seats you have.  I think the norm is 3 seats but I have some old defunct keys that only have one seat.  If you only have one seat you may need to release it.

 Hi BPaul:

... and further to Ian Davis 4's comment, if you have a 1-year 3-device subscription (the norm for NIS) and have used up your installation seats then see the support article Remove a Device From Your Norton Account.  You should be able to match the device names listed in your Norton Account with the device names shown at Help | General Information | About on any machines sharing the same subscription.

In theory, you can reinstall Norton on the same machine multiple times and this should only consume one installation seat as long you don't change the motherboard / MAC address but Norton is notorious for losing track of the correct device names and number of registered devices sharing the same subscription.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 7:49AM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 7:54AM · Permalink

Reply to Imacri

Regarding the internet connectivity issue, my observations are the following.

It seems to be with the expired trial that there is an issue. When the update to the trial version isn't expired and is an active subscription, the activation works as intended just by clicking activate on the UI. Also it didn't work when I tried the offline 22.15.0.88 install. The auto activation at start up just showed a blank subscription window. I waited and closed it. Tried to activate again and I receive a message, "activation already in progress".

The roll out of the 22.15.3.20 update didn't hit everyone at the same time. My mom got it fairly early in April or May. After it expired I warned people I know still using XP and NIS and as long as it is activated before it expires no problems. Even as recently as about a week ago an XP device that isn't used regularly successfully got the update and activation. 

Thanks for all of the help replies. I won't get to work on this for a couple days, but will follow up if and when I have any success.

Accepted Solution
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Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 11:43AM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 11:44AM · Permalink

I found some time to work on this today.

I had a new product key that I had tried before but reported invalid and that live chat stated was used already.

Went to Norton.com enroll and signed in. Hadn't tried this method before.

Entered the same new product key and downloaded the download manager.

Installed and it started and I got the expired trial version activate screen again. Crapped my pants.

Clicked on activate and got the communicating with the Norton server message and a blank subscription window.

After a few seconds the blank subscription window showed "activating".

After a restart I got an active 22.15.3.20 without running live update.

All good.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 4:35PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul,

Pleased to hear things are working ok.  I suggest you check that NIS is still working from time to time.  I have found occasionally after a reboot NIS went back to the expired trial setting and I needed to reactivate it.   I think this was after I tried to access My Norton via the help button on the main UI.  Doing this brings up the blank Subscription screen which on some occasions freezes and the only way to clear it is to reboot.

Hi Imacri,

Thanks for your interesting comments.  I was particularly interested to see that Norton 15.23.3.4 was intended for Windows XP.    I suspect that Norton failed to take into account the old graphic drivers XP machines have.   I get the blank Subscription screen and freezing issue with both XP machines.  One machine (a Dell Dimension 8400) has a Radeon X300 SE graphic cards and the other (Toshiba NB100 Netbook) a Mobile Intel 945 Express Chip Family.  In both cases the drivers appear to be the latest versions.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 4:49PM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 4:52PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul:

That's great news! Thanks for letting us know you figured out how to get the legacy Norton v22.15.3.20 activated on your Mom's Win XP SP3 machine, and kudos again to Ian Davis 4 for pointing you in the right direction.

BPaul:

Earlier this year Norton forced an update via Live Update for Windows XP SP3 to NIS 22.15.3.20 from the previous version. Strangely, it installs as a trial version on an active account.

My 91 year old mother received the update, but wasn't aware that it needed to be activated. The 30 day trial version expired and is now preventing activation of an active subscription ...Secondly, in the expired trial version, under Help, the links "Enter product key and Subscription status" under Account Information are missing...

Just out of curiosity, do you recall if the Subscription Status and Enter Product Key links re-appeared at Help | Account Information once you figured out a way to activate the expired 30-day trial version? I always had a spare product key that I would purchase on sale at a retail outlet like Staples or Best Buy, and a day or two before my subscription expired I would simply go to Help | Enter Product Key and enter the product key to renew my subscription for another year - easy peasy.  That was before Norton started trying to force users to enter their credit card information and opt for automatic renewal (even when renewing with a product key purchased from an authorized reseller), and I wonder now if Norton is deliberately removing those Subscription Status and Enter Product Key links in expired products to "encourage" users to purchase their subscriptions from the Norton online store at the full price.  I originally assumed those links had disappeared in your Mom's expired trial version because NIS was accidentally corrupted during the forced upgrade from v21.x to the legacy v22.15.x, but now I'm not so sure.

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Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 7:08PM · Permalink

Update

I have found the solution to the blank Subscription screen problem.  It is not a graphics issue as I suspected but a missing certificate issue.  After reading this website http://woshub.com/updating-trusted-root-certificates-in-windows-10/.  I went to a Windows 10 machine and executed the command line from Run:
   certutil.exe –generateSSTFromWU  E:/roots.sst
      where E:/ is an external usb drive and roots.sst is a file name I chose

The WosHub website suggests a power shell command to import the certificates but I couldn’t get it to work so with my usb drive plugged into the XP machine I selected
Control Panel
     Networks and Internet Connection
            Internet Options
               Contents
I then clicked import (show all files) and selected my usb drive and the roots.sst file.  I then had to accept about 100 certificates. 

I did this on both machines and the Subscription screen now shows a login Window.  If you haven’t got access to a Windows 10 machine the WosHub website suggest another method to get the current certificates but I haven’t tried it.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 7:41PM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 7:59PM · Permalink

Reply to Imacri

Just out of curiosity, do you recall if the Subscription Status and Enter Product Key links re-appeared at Help | Account Information once you figured out a way to activate the expired 30-day trial version?

The subscription status and enter product key links are missing on any expired NIS, whether it was a trial or previously subscribed. The links are present on any active subscription.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 7:52PM · Edited: 23-Aug-2020 | 8:00PM · Permalink

In reply to Ian Davis 4

Doing this brings up the blank Subscription screen which on some occasions freezes and the only way to clear it is to reboot.

I found that closing the original UI window first (behind the subscription window), closes OK then close the blank subscription window that remains open.

If I close the blank subscription window first, neither will close every time unless the program is ended. Shutdown or restart will trigger the "program not responding" end program routine before shutdown.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 8:01PM · Permalink

Ian Davis 4:

... I have found the solution to the blank Subscription screen problem.  It is not a graphics issue as I suspected but a missing certificate issue.  After reading this website http://woshub.com/updating-trusted-root-certificates-in-windows-10/. ...

Hi Ian Davis 4:

"Missing certificate issue" certainly sounds familiar.  Many Vista SP2 users recently reported problems with missing trust certificates, and I posted the following revision to my instructions on page 1 of m#l's thread Updates not working, it has been searching for updates for hours in the MS Answers Vista board where I post as user Great White North:

**** EDIT as of April 2020:  Since March 2020 multiple users performing a clean reinstall of their Vista SP2 OS have reported that Windows Update can throw an error 800B0109 ("A certificate chain processed, but terminated in a root certificate which is not trusted by the trust provider") while trying to install KB4014984 (Security and Quality Rollup for NET. Framework 2.0, 3.0, 4.5.2, 4.6 on Windows Vista SP2 and Server 2008 SP2: April 11, 2017).  To fix this error, download the MicrosoftRootCertificateAuthority2011.cer file from http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=747875&clcid=0x409 and save it to the root C:\ directory of your computer (i.e.., so the location is C:\MicrosoftRootCertificateAuthority2011.cer), open an elevated command prompt with Administrator rights, and enter the command certutil -addstore "Root" "C:\MicrosoftRootCertificateAuthority2011.cer" to apply the required trust certificate. See the MS support article Known Issue for Security Update 3136000 for the .NET Framework 4.6.1/4.6 and Security Update 3135996 for the .NET Framework 4.5.2 in Windows Vista SP2... for more information.  Kudos to greenhillmaniac for posting about this fix in his 06-Apr-2020 post in the MSFN thread Certificate Trust Provider Error Installing Updates. ****

I don't know if these instructions would also work on a Win XP SP3 (I have a Vista SP2 test machine but no longer use Norton v22.15.x) or if addition of those specific certificates in the MicrosoftRootCertificateAuthority2011.cer file would fix the problems with the blank Subscription window on a Win XP SP3 machine.

I think someone from Norton needs to look into this.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 23-Aug-2020 | 11:30PM · Permalink

I wish I knew which certificate fixed the problem.   Initially, I couldn’t run the Norton installer on the machine with the clean install of XP because the Digicert certificates weren’t installed.   In that case it was simply a matter of looking at the Norton installer’s exe file properties to determine the missing certificate.

Finding the fix for the blank Subscription screen was a bit of serendipity.  I had noticed a lot of https sites wouldn’t load in Chrome.  Unlike Firefox, which stores its own certificates, Chrome uses the standard Windows certificates store.   Initially, I just installed the certificate for the website I wanted to look at and when that worked I decided to install all the certificates from my Windows 10 machine.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 24-Aug-2020 | 4:58AM · Permalink

Hi BPaul:

Did you recently reinstall the Win XP SP3 OS on your Mom's computer? 

From Ian Davis 4's post <here> about Win XP SP3 ...

I wish I knew which certificate fixed the problem.   Initially, I couldn’t run the Norton installer on the machine with the clean install of XP because the Digicert certificates weren’t installed.   In that case it was simply a matter of looking at the Norton installer’s exe file properties to determine the missing certificate.

... and from my comment <here> :

...Since March 2020 multiple users performing a clean reinstall of their Vista SP2 OS have reported that Windows Update can throw an error 800B0109 ("A certificate chain processed, but terminated in a root certificate which is not trusted by the trust provider") ...To fix this error, download the MicrosoftRootCertificateAuthority2011.cer file from http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=747875&clcid=0x409 and save it to ...

As far as I know, the missing certificate problem Ian Davis 4 and I are describing only started around March 2020 for Win XP and Vista users after a clean reinstall of their OS, and this problem would occur even if those users used Windows Update to patch their system back to end of support (i.e., even if Windows Update reported there were no available updates).  Microsoft apparently pulled required certificates for Win XP and Vista from their certificate store in March 2020 or did something on their back end servers around that time that is now causing these certificate problems on clean installs of these older OSs.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 24-Aug-2020 | 7:07AM · Edited: 24-Aug-2020 | 7:09AM · Permalink

Reply to Imacri

Did you recently reinstall the Win XP SP3 OS on your Mom's computer? 

No. XP SP3 was installed about a year and half ago. No problem installing NIS then, and it worked as intended until the expired trial update.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 24-Aug-2020 | 9:20AM · Permalink

Reply to Ian Davis 4

I suspect that Norton failed to take into account the old graphic drivers XP machines have.

 My mom's PC has an Nvidia GTX 550TI card and latest driver. It's not cutting edge, but new enough that it has HDMI.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 25-Aug-2020 | 9:27AM · Edited: 25-Aug-2020 | 9:51AM · Permalink

Correction to one of my comments earlier in this thread regarding links under help in expired subscriptions.

I swapped the now activated PC for the temporary PC that my mom was using (also XP). It has an expired subscription (NIS 22. x) rather than an expired trial. When you open the UI, it shows expired, but unlike the expired trial version that had "activate" links, it has "renew" links and under help the subscription status and enter product key links are present. This was probably because the subscription for the device with the issue was active before the forced update, so it was attempting to activate the update rather than renew but couldn't find an internet connection.

Furthermore, the expired subscription on the temporary PC does find an internet connection, unlike the expired trial.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 25-Aug-2020 | 8:41PM · Permalink

Hi BPaul,

Thank you for the information on your videocard.  If it wasn’t for the lack of drivers I suspect the old Dell machine would handle Windows 10 without too much trouble.   Certainly with the new disk it’s running much faster.  Next time my wife complains about her new windows 10 machine I will offer her the old XP machine.

Thanks for also for opening this thread it has proved to be most interesting and helpful.  I guess there are not that many people using XP now.  I was the last person in my company to stop using XP.  The IT team tried several times to get me to upgrade to Windows 7.  They finally won when they presented me with a new laptop.

Hi Imacri

Thank you the discussion about certificates.  That saga continued for me for a couple more days.  I had runout of Norton seats for the rebuilt XP machines so I hadn’t tried activating it until yesterday when I got a new key.   The activation went as far as checking out a licence but gave a server error right at the end of the activation.  This looked very much like another certificate problem.   I then installed the MS executable “rootsupd.exe” from the location Windows Hub website mentioned and this installed several more certificates.  After which the activation completed successfully.

Three interesting discoveries:

  1. I decide to open a new acooount for the new key and found that the new account defaulted to auto renewal OFF and it didn’t ask for a credit card.
  2. I don’t think Norton is counting the XP machines in its count of licences assigned.  I had three licences in use and all three were listed in My Norton  Subscription but the Dashboard was suggesting a seat was available and the XP-machine wasn’t listed.   At one stage Subscription was showing 4 out 3 licenses used (two XP machines and two Windows 10 machines).
  3. The new key I bought was meant to be for NIS but it turned out to be for the later NS.   I have two Mac laptops both with Windows 10 installed on a BootCamp partition and when I connected them to the new licence they activated NIS and immediately upgraded to NS.   I suspect the system would be smart enough not to do this with XP machines but for the moment I have left them on the old account.
Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 26-Aug-2020 | 6:51AM · Edited: 26-Aug-2020 | 7:13AM · Permalink

Ian Davis 4:

....Thank you the discussion about certificates.  That saga continued for me for a couple more days.  I had runout of Norton seats for the rebuilt XP machines so I hadn’t tried activating it until yesterday when I got a new key.   The activation went as far as checking out a licence but gave a server error right at the end of the activation.  This looked very much like another certificate problem.   I then installed the MS executable “rootsupd.exe” from the location Windows Hub website mentioned and this installed several more certificates.  After which the activation completed successfully.

Hi Ian Davis 4:

There is a good article on the Windows OS Hub at Updating List of Trusted Root Certificates in Windows 10/8.1/7 that has a section titled Rootsupd.exe Utility that specifically addresses updating of trust certificates on Win XP machines.  Is this the article you're referring to?  (EDIT: Sorry, I see you already provided a link to that article in your 23-Aug-2020 post <here>).

I can't speak to the best way to update the root certificates after a clean reinstall of Win XP SP3, but when this issue of missing trust certificates first appeared in April 2020 in the MS Answers Vista board thread KB4014984 Doesn't Install on Vista (Standalone Either), user Peter Starling reported that after they performed a clean reinstall of Vista SP2 they were also able to install KB4014984 (an April 2017 update for their MS .NET Framework v4.6) by applying missing trust certificates using the rootsupd.exe utility.  Going back through that thread today, I noticed that the OP Frederick Risener mentioned that they were also a Norton user and could not activate their Norton v22.15.3.20 product after a clean reinstall of Vista SP2 until their trust certificates were updated.  From Frederick's 18-Apr-2020 posts <here> on page 5 of that thread (where I was posting as user Great White North):

"Sometimes software DOES NOT give you a clue as to what is going on, and simply fails to install or run properly.  In early March, my Norton security software simply lost the ability to communicate with the Norton Activation server.  I was convinced that this problem was due to Norton upgrading my subscriptions to Norton 360 (partially correct) and that my old version was not able to communicate with these subscriptions (wrong.)  I thought that a newer version of Norton Security would fix the problem (wrong again.)  I spent the better part of the last two days trying every trick I could think of to install a newer version of the software.  I even managed to obtain a stand alone installer for the latest version; however, this installer failed to run on my computer without any explanation as to why.  Prior to this work with Norton, I tried Bullguard which worked, but kept flagging me about root certificate problems (one of the reasons I did not like it.)  What kind of problems will I encounter in the future if I continue to use this Vista computer?  All of these problems went away when I ran the Rootsupd.exe.  Now the old version of Norton communicates perfectly with the server and the new version installer works perfectly....

....As far as your final thoughts about Norton's recent Norton Security 22.15.3.20 release, you may well be on to something.  ALL of the problems that I was having with Norton Security went away after I ran the rootsupd.exe utility.  This is a microsoft utility for XP that "works" on Windows Vista as well.  I was able to install version 22.15.0.88 and update it to 22.15.3.20 and I was able to run a stand alone version of 22.15.3.20 which did not work on my computer prior to running the rootsupd.exe utility.  This utility also installed both of the missing Microsoft certificates (2010 and 2011) and allowed both Windows update and the stand alone installers above to work perfectly."...

After monitoring several other threads on this subject, I eventually decided to revise to my instructions on page 1 of m#l's thread Updates not working, it has been searching for updates for hours in the MS Answers Vista board and recommend that users performing a clean reinstall of Vista SP2 update their trust certificates using greenhillmacniac's alternate method I mentioned <above> (i.e., downloading the MicrosoftRootCertificateAuthority2011.cer file and applying the missing trust certificates from an elevated command prompt), since feedback from other Vista SP2 users indicated that greenhillmaniac's method is simpler than using the rootsupd.exe utility and seems to achieve the same result (at least on Vista SP2 machines).

Ian Davis 4:

Three interesting discoveries:

  1. I decide to open a new acooount for the new key and found that the new account defaulted to auto renewal OFF and it didn’t ask for a credit card.
  2. I don’t think Norton is counting the XP machines in its count of licences assigned.  I had three licences in use and all three were listed in My Norton  Subscription but the Dashboard was suggesting a seat was available and the XP-machine wasn’t listed.   At one stage Subscription was showing 4 out 3 licenses used (two XP machines and two Windows 10 machines).
  3. The new key I bought was meant to be for NIS but it turned out to be for the later NS.   I have two Mac laptops both with Windows 10 installed on a BootCamp partition and when I connected them to the new licence they activated NIS and immediately upgraded to NS.   I suspect the system would be smart enough not to do this with XP machines but for the moment I have left them on the old account.

Just note that the number of installation (activation) seats used on the Subscriptions tab at https://my.norton.com/account/subscriptions is usually accurate, but I wouldn't trust the name or number of Devices listed in your Norton Account at https://my.norton.com/extspa/devices/.  Norton has always had a problem tracking the correct name and number of activated devices and doesn't seem to know how to fix this.  DavidCoffied's 2017 My Services (Correct) My Devices (Wrong) is a bit old but has lots of good information about Remote Management (Settings | Administrative Settings | Remote Management) and other hints about reconciling the number of used activation seats with the number of active devices.

If you have at least one subscription / product key for 5 or 10 devices (e.g., one of your Norton Accounts shows you were upgraded to Norton 360 Deluxe for 5 devices or Norton 360 Premium for 10 devices at https://my.norton.com/account/subscriptions) that one subscription should cover all the devices in your household, even if you have a mix of Win XP / Vista machines with the legacy Norton v22.15.3.20 as well as Win 7 SP1 and higher machines with the latest Norton v22.20.5.39 - assuming the max. number of devices that subscription allows doesn't exceed the number of devices in your household. If Norton was doing their job properly there shouldn't be any need to pay for and use a separate product key for older Win XP and Vista machines as long as at least one of your subscriptions still has an available installation (activation) seat.

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 26-Aug-2020 | 7:54AM · Edited: 26-Aug-2020 | 7:55AM · Permalink

Reply to Ian Davis 4

Three interesting discoveries:

  1. I decide to open a new acooount for the new key and found that the new account defaulted to auto renewal OFF and it didn’t ask for a credit card.

I used my existing account with a new key and I didn't get any auto renewal selection or supply credit card info. I checked my account later and auto renewal is off.

My key wasn't purchased from Norton and they probably know that.  Was your key purchased from Norton?

Kudos0

Re: Forced update expired trial version of NIS prevents reinstall activation

Posted: 27-Aug-2020 | 7:52PM · Permalink

Hi Imacri,

I had a look at your instructions using certutil but as far as I can tell certutil isn’t available in Windows XP.   It may be possible to install it but rootsupd.exe appears to have done all I want.  The only problem was that it duplicated some of the certificates I had already imported from Windows 10.  

It looks like Norton are now using DigiCert certificates for their new software but all their old software appears to use VeriSign.  Apparently, VeriSign is now considered unsafe and FireFox and Chrome don’t accept VeriSign certificates anymore.  One thing I noticed is Windows 10 and XP have a lot of the same VeriSign certificates but Windows XP has more than Windows 10 so just installing the Windows 10 certificates is not enough.

My advice to anyone wanting to update their Windows XP certificates is to run rootsupd.exe.  This should install the last root certificates Microsoft sent to XP users.   If the XP user can get access to a Windows 10 machine it is also worthwhile using certutil.exe (see http://woshub.com/updating-trusted-root-certificates-in-windows-10/ ) to get a copy of the latest certificates.  I found a lot of HTTPS websites wouldn’t work in Google Chrome until I added the Windows 10 certificates.

Thanks for the information on the Norton licences.  I moved the rebuilt XP machine to the new licence.  NIS still seems a bit flaky on both XP machines.  As long as you leave it alone it runs ok but it crashed on the first attempt to activate the new licence.    I see that Norton have started using “I am not a robot” security now.  It only appears sometimes.  On my Mac it just a case of just clicking a box but it came up with the full photo box selection test on the XP machines.  It’s also inclined to crash during this process.

Hi BPaul,​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

My new key is also a retail key when I login to my account https://my.norton.com/extspa/account/subscriptions I get the automatic renewal switch on the right hand side as shown below.

I just turned off the auto renewal on my old account and it’s clear Norton don’t want you to do it.  It initially offered an extra month free and then gave several warnings.

​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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