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Kudos0

@1% "Reconciling volume"

Base backups complete normally, but daily incrementals report "Initializing Reconciling volume".  This only takes a few minutes on smaller drives, but on my drives with half a TB of data, both are still Reconciling right now @1% after ten hours (on jobs whose base backups take 4 hours).

Both computers are XP Pro sp3.  One has Ghost 14, the other Ghost 15; both were reinstalled a couple weeks ago and are fully updated.  The "Norton Ghost" service is set to Automatic startup on both.  But the SymSnapService, while Started, is I see set to Manual startup on both.  (I now, as always, have disabled "C:\Program Files\Norton Ghost\Agent\VProTray.exe" because I don't like the nagging.)

On both computers, the Event Viewer reports "Norton Ghost service started successfully" and "The description for Event ID ( 0 ) in Source ( SymSnapService ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE= flag to retrieve this description; see Help and Support for details. The following information is part of the event: Service started.".

On the Ghost 15 computer, the Event Viewer also contains the following Errors:

Symantec SynSnap "Error E7B70196: PreCommitSnapshots failed for SnapShot Set Id 97ccc0e0-3329-4996-87f6-76d13e289722 Error: Error E7B70001: Win32/Win64 API DeviceIoControl(IOCTL_VSNAP_SET_PRE_COMMIT) failed.  Error EBAB03F1: Insufficient system resources exist to complete the requested service."


VSS:  "Volume Shadow Copy Service error: Error calling a routine on the Shadow Copy Provider {262b716e-bb23-41b5-aaef-e2c15e767167}. Routine details PreCommitSnapshots({97ccc0e0-3329-4996-87f6-76d13e289722}) [hr = 0x8000ffff]."

On both computers I also installed Spyware Doctor a few weeks ago.  One the Ghost 15 computer backups failed with "EBAB03F1: Insufficient system resources exist to complete the requested service" until I did an IRPStackSize reg hack (to 18) as reported in this thread and this thread.

On the Ghost 14 computer I have not yet tried adding a registry value for IRPStackSize (so I believe it's now at default of 15).

Any advice, please?

Replies

Accepted Solution
Kudos1 Stats

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

I don't know if this helps..

On my PC with Ghost 15, services.msc settings...


Norton Ghost - Automatic

Symantec SymSnap VSS Provider - Automatic

SymSnapService - Manual

Are you running some kind of defragging software (Disk Keeper) in between backups? This causes problems like you are experiencing. In my opinion continuous defragging is unnecessary and just increases the chances for an error on the disk. Defrag once before you create the base Recovery Point and do not defrag again until you are done creating incrementals for the Recovery Point Set. For me this means I defrag at the beginning of the month before I start a new Recovery Point Set. I do not defrag until after the last Recovery Point was made for that set.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


redk9258 wrote:

I don't know if this helps..

On my PC with Ghost 15, services.msc settings...


Norton Ghost - Automatic

Symantec SymSnap VSS Provider - Automatic

SymSnapService - Manual

Are you running some kind of defragging software (Disk Keeper) in between backups? This causes problems like you are experiencing. In my opinion continuous defragging is unnecessary and just increases the chances for an error on the disk. Defrag once before you create the base Recovery Point and do not defrag again until you are done creating incrementals for the Recovery Point Set. For me this means I defrag at the beginning of the month before I start a new Recovery Point Set. I do not defrag until after the last Recovery Point was made for that set.


1.

oops, I see there are two SymSnap services, and that my settings for them match yours.

2.

since my post I tried cancelling the jobs, and both hung at "...being cancelled" for an hour.

3.

Good call!  I do have Diskeeper set for automatic (background) defrag of the backup source drives.  I'll turn it off and report whether that resolves the issue.  Thank you redk9258!

Kudos1 Stats

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

Remember, Ghost is a sector based backup software. It tracks changed sectors in-between the base and the first incremental, then in-between the following incrementals. Each incremental (iv2i file) depends on every incremental before it and the base v2i file. If you run a disk defragmenter, it changes the layout of sectors. Ghost has to figure all of this out and it takes time. Ghost 15 seems much better at this than version 10 was. When I used Ghost 10, usually if it had to reconcile, it meant a new Recovery Point would be created. Ghost 15 seems to be able to still create an incremental. In your case the incremental files will be as large as the original because all of the sectors are changing.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


redk9258 wrote:

Remember, Ghost is a sector based backup software. It tracks changed sectors in-between the base and the first incremental, then in-between the following incrementals. Each incremental (iv2i file) depends on every incremental before it and the base v2i file. If you run a disk defragmenter, it changes the layout of sectors. Ghost has to figure all of this out and it takes time. Ghost 15 seems much better at this than version 10 was. When I used Ghost 10, usually if it had to reconcile, it meant a new Recovery Point would be created. Ghost 15 seems to be able to still create an incremental. In your case the incremental files will be as large as the original because all of the sectors are changing.


Thank you for helping me understand this better.  I thought "reconciling" only happened when the service's tracking of changes was interrupted! 

And I guess more sectors were being changed by Diskeeper's automatic defrag that I realized (I thought not enough to exceed what I thought was a threshold below which I thought changes wouldn't require all this).

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

You need to get rid of spyware doctor, it's causing you too many problems and it's junk.  No program should interfere with windows functions and timmings like that.

What are you using for an anti-virus?

You also should read this topic here, the person posting said they got a patch from diskeeper to correct most of the problems it was causing with Ghost.

http://community.norton.com/t5/Other-Norton-Products/Huge-incrementals-with-Ghost-15/td-p/388214/highlight/true

Dave

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


DaveH wrote:

You need to get rid of spyware doctor, it's causing you too many problems and it's junk.  No program should interfere with windows functions and timmings like that.

What are you using for an anti-virus?

You also should read this topic here, the person posting said they got a patch from diskeeper to correct most of the problems it was causing with Ghost.

http://community.norton.com/t5/Other-Norton-Products/Huge-incrementals-with-Ghost-15/td-p/388214/highlight/true



Thank you DaveH, I probably should abandon Spyware Doctor (though it's scans get more spyware than anything else I've used, and it is the top-rated antispyware software), particularly since with the latest version I need to disable it's real-time scanning functionality (in order for it to be compatible with my NOD32 antivirus).

Incidentally, speaking of NOD32, I've been thinking of switching back to Norton Antivirus which I used for many years, because I see it now is back on top of the ratings thanks to results like this

Oh, I also use the top-rated firewall by Comodo.  Choosing antispyware, antivirus, and firewall is usually complicated by that the top-rated of each aren't always mutually compatible.  And I don't recall a time when any company's 'security suite' had the best product in all three categories.  My older computers really like NOD32's light footprint, but I think it's time to abandon it too.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

I personally run Microsoft Security Essentials on 3 PCs here. It does a bang up job as far as I'm concerned. I use the free version of Malwarebytes and just scan once a month of so. It has never found anything on any of the 3 PCs yet. I used to like Norton AV but always hated that the subscription only lasted a certain amount of time and it nagged the crap out of you to renew. I then switched to Symantec AV which seemed to work pretty well and do not nag. When I upgraded to Windows 7, I switched to MSE. I really like it. I works quietly and does not try to get money from me each year 

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


redk9258 wrote:

I personally run Microsoft Security Essentials on 3 PCs here. It does a bang up job as far as I'm concerned. I use the free version of Malwarebytes and just scan once a month of so. It has never found anything on any of the 3 PCs yet. I used to like Norton AV but always hated that the subscription only lasted a certain amount of time and it nagged the crap out of you to renew. I then switched to Symantec AV which seemed to work pretty well and do not nag. When I upgraded to Windows 7, I switched to MSE. I really like it. I works quietly and does not try to get money from me each year 


thank you redk9258!  I see in this review that MSE is quite a bit more effective with Win7 than with WinXP (which I still use), so I think I won't consider MSE until I can upgrade to Win7.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

I ran MSE on an XP computer and it was fine. By the way they also offer a Standalone System Sweeper. It says it is in Beta but is the same version that has been available to enterprise customers for some time now. The only difference is it downloads Windows PE and doesn't have any other functions. The enterprise version used the Windows install disc and copied the Recovery Environment. It added several useful tools that are not available to the public.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


coyote2 wrote:
Good call!  I do have Diskeeper set for automatic (background) defrag of the backup source drives.  I'll turn it off and report whether that resolves the issue.  Thank you redk9258!

Issue resolved by turning off Diskeeper's automatic (background) defrag of the backup source drives.  Thank you for that, redk9258!

Thanks too for mentioning that Standalone System Sweeper which I'd never heard of, I'll give it a try.

I can't get over how thrilled I am that this forum is here.  Ghost tech support has always been friendly over the years, but I very rarely got off the phone/chat knowing more than when I started; they unfortunately led me to be confused about this matter of defragging and full-size incrementals.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

Glad it worked out for you. I've read several threads here about problems with Disk Keeper and Ghost. I learned a long time ago that defragging between incrementals is not the way to keep them small.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

The issue recurred on the Ghost 15 computer.

No defragging was done to to the backup source or destination drives.

Here's what else was also occurring overnight:

Scans by NOD32, Spyware Doctor, and Spybot.

Bittorrent uploading ("Seeding")(no downloading) using Vuze.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

You shouldn't have so many scanners running at once. One 'live' AV product and manual scans with the others.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


redk9258 wrote:

You shouldn't have so many scanners running at once. One 'live' AV product and manual scans with the others.


The scans weren't running at the same time, they are scheduled so that they don't overlap.

And only NOD32 is an antivirus product. 

And (antispyware product) Spyware Doctor's real-time scanning functionality is disabled.

I have enabled (antispyware product) Spybot's (resident) Teatimer, and I do also have a Comodo firewall.

Does this change your diagnosis, please?

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

It's hard to say. Why not disable some of that stuff altogether and see if ghost can produce an incremental backup. If it does, then start one item between incrementals to see if which one is causing problems. Another thing that causes reconciliation is 'dirty' shutdowns. Is this happening at all? Computer resetting, power flashing off, etc.?

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


redk9258 wrote:

It's hard to say. Why not disable some of that stuff altogether and see if ghost can produce an incremental backup. If it does, then start one item between incremental to see if which one is causing problems.  Another thing that causes reconciliation is 'dirty' shutdowns. Is this happening at all? Computer resetting, power flashing off, etc.?


1.  An excellent approach, but I'm afraid it's not going to be that simple, since (when I reported the issue resolved yesterday) Ghost had -already- produced an incremental backup with all those security applications running. 

(But I ran the incremental manually, without the overnight scheduled scans or bittorrent uploads occurring.  So I guess a smart approach would be to try an overnight with either only the bittorent, or only one scheduled scan, and only if that produces an incremental should I try adding another overnight activity.  Incidentally, Ghost did produce a system drive [on which only 35GB is used] incremental last night, it's just incrementals of my drive with 450GB of data that are hanging.)

I'll also be seriously considering moving to a (Norton Internet) security suite to eliminate such concerns with multiple products.

2.  No 'dirty' shutdowns (I did know that they cause reconciliation).  In fact as far as my operating systems know, none has ever had a dirty shutdown, because if one were to occur I'd restore the most recent backup of the system drive (since dirty shutdowns can potentially corrupt system files)(and create new base backups, since I know that restoring a system drive image also causes reconciliation).

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

while I work on the problem, I'm curious...

if it is the security aps and/or their scans that is causing the issue, how?  could they or their potential conflicts somehow be interfering with the Ghost Service's ability to keep track of changes, or with the Ghost backup jobs?

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

That I do not know. I just know that it is not good to have two real time AV products running at the same time.

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"


redk9258 wrote:

I just know that it is not good to have two real time AV products running at the same time.


I didn't think I did, but I following your URL's I was reminded I had Comodo firewall's "Defense+" enabled.  Perhaps I'll find that was the problem; I'll report when I do isolate the problem(s).

Kudos0

Re: @1% "Reconciling volume"

It turned out I needed to completley uninstal Spyware Doctor to resolve the issue.  I'll let the good people at PC Tools know that it seems the new version 8.0.0.654 of Spyware Doctor appears to be in serious conflict with the Norton Ghost service which tracks changes.

Since I value Ghost far more than Spyware Doctor, and since it's creator PC Tools hasn't yet responded to a support ticket I opened 3 weeks ago on initial problems I noticed Spyware Doctor 8.0.0.654 causing Ghost, I'll ask them for a pro-rated refund of my subscription fee.

Today I've turned back on my Comodo firewall's "Defense+", and re-enabled scheduled scans by Spybot; hopefully Ghost incremental backups will continue to complete normally.  Assuming they do, I'll then try gradually resuming use of Diskeeper (which may not work according to this thread): first manual defrags of drives not involved in backup jobs, then automatic defrags of drives not involved in backup jobs, then manual and automatic defrag of drives being backed up (I never defrag backup destination drives, which are dedicated completely to  backup image storage).  Next week I'll report how this turns out.

Thanks to everyone for their help!

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