Kudos0

4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 18-Nov-2009 | 3:17PM · 28 Replies ·

hi all--

So, some users are noticing that we have changed the way the locks work in Norton Internet Security 4.1 for Mac.  Basically, the antivirus portion now behaves the same way as the firewal, that is, if you are the admin user, the app opens already unlocked. This makes it easier to make fundamental changes to the application settings when you are the administrator. Non admin users will need to enter in the proper login to make changes.

The Confidential portion of Norton Internet Security comes locked because we want to make sure that the confidential data is not displayed be default.

Thanks!

-mike

mike_romo@symantec.com

Replies

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 18-Nov-2009 | 3:17PM · Permalink

hi all--

So, some users are noticing that we have changed the way the locks work in Norton Internet Security 4.1 for Mac.  Basically, the antivirus portion now behaves the same way as the firewal, that is, if you are the admin user, the app opens already unlocked. This makes it easier to make fundamental changes to the application settings when you are the administrator. Non admin users will need to enter in the proper login to make changes.

The Confidential portion of Norton Internet Security comes locked because we want to make sure that the confidential data is not displayed be default.

Thanks!

-mike

mike_romo@symantec.com

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 4:04AM · Permalink

Hi Mike,

From my perspective, I was used to knowing that the NAV admin panel came up unlocked when I logged into an admin account, and all it took was one click to lock the panel and go on with my day.

Now, while the panel still opens unlocked, I am unable to lock the panel at all, and so don't have the password protection on the panel available to me.  So theoretically, anyone could walk up and turn off my automatic settings without encountering the request for a password.  Non-admin users are now better protected than admin users, which to me is a curious decision.

I would prefer to be able to lock the panel when running in an admin account.

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 5:52AM · Permalink

I think the panel should be locked by default and prompt for a password to match default behavior with system preferences.

I'm prompted everywhere else for a password, when I want to change a setting, and NIS shouldn't be an exception.  I think it's better for an app to follow conventions and guidelines, than to behave in an unconventional manner.

Furthermore, for the app to unlock the panel after a user locks it is just broken behavior.  The app shouldn't force the panel to remain unlocked as a "convenience."

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 8:51AM · Permalink

Admin user is supposed to be the most secure user, now with 11/17 Update NIS admin user is the least secure user !!!
In fact, my major complaint about NIS from the start along with other NIS users was the inability to lock Norton Firewall Settings causing the Firewall not to function properly. Symantec techs said earlier they are working on a fix for this problem. In fact, few days prior to the 11/17 Update, your reply to my email about this specific problem to you Mike,  assured me that the upcoming 11/17 Update will address this issue.
It appears that symantec techs were unable to fix the problem of inability of the locks to lock in the Norton Firewall after almost 1 year from its release in such a problematic and major security issue, as such, they decided to unlock now the  NAV AntiVirus locks too !!! and refer to the unresolved problem as if they done it as in Firewall from the start for the benefit of the admin user !!! 
As with so many much frustrated mac users from Symantec not coming up with prompt and proper updates and/or fixes to their products for mac (except NAV) since the release of OS X 10.4, I have given up on NIS, it lost my trust in it to secure and guard my Mac. As such, I switched to Intego Internet Security bundle which include VirusBarrier, NetBarrier, and PersonalBackup with Intego issuing compatibility updates immediately along with Apple updates, and the cost is the same as NIS.
Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 9:27AM · Permalink

While I would argue that it makes no sense at all to claim that the Admin user is "most secure" - it doesn't matter.  Thanks for the feedback. It's hard to balance out the demands of people who like the locks the old way and those who hated it the old way. Suffice to say, I think we're going to scrap locks altogether in the next verson and use a different methodology. 

I will talk about this with the team and see if what we can do in the short term.

thanks

mike

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 9:31AM · Permalink

Joni--

Did you ever send us screenshots about the firewall issue like I have asked you to?  You problem, as you stated it, was this:


3- This issue remain after after installing 11/17 NF Update. Norton Firewall Application Blocking is still doing the same error by asking whether to Block an application which already have been added to Application Blocking and was set to Block. When I reply Yes, thereby the identical application end up appearing twice in the Application path settings list, and so on.

 And I offered explanations of what could be happening but you never told me what the apps were, and never sent a screenshot. While I understand your comments about the lock, it's hard for me help you if you can't give us more information about this issue.

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 5:51PM · Permalink

Mike,

I don't know if I'm alone or not ... but the "locks" that are supposed to provide me with a sense of security ... that the settings can't be changed by anyone but me ... will not stay locked (since the new update)!!!  They unlock within a second of my locking them.

If this is prevalent (and not just on my computer) ... how could something this blantant get by Norton before this highly touted release?

 Suggestions?

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 6:25PM · Permalink

jprzy,

It's apparently an intentional "feature" done for the convenience of never having to unlock the panel (as an Admin).

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 6:54PM · Permalink

karigane.

Gee ... is it my mistake?

I thought that I bought this software for security's sake.

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 8:50PM · Permalink

"I thought that I bought this software for security's sake."

I understand your comment, and although I am frustrated by the quip,I understand what you are saying--I really do--am I am taking it to heart. I guess your worry is that someone could turn off your security settings when you weren't around? Maybe you have users that use your machine when you are not around using your account--which seems like a crazy security hole to me--but if you do, if this really is the thing you are worried about, then, okay--we'll take that situation into consideration.

I am going to sleep on this and talk about it with the team. We're all a little burned out from updating three products to make sure they work with the three operating systems (we also updated onlinefamily.norton), but you have all raised some good points and, well, I just gotta talk it over with the team.

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 19-Nov-2009 | 10:34PM · Permalink

ugh, I know I said I would sleep on this, but suffice to say I am still thinking about it and we're basically just dealing with:

1 - balancing out the demands of the many, many people who wanted the locks to change with the frustrations of the people who liked it the way it was

2 - looking at updates we are doing to update one of protection engines, which is, right now, a higher priority

3 - designing the next version of the software, which has a pretty aggressive release schedule, which could be impacted by any major patches we would make to the software

Right now, the application acts a lot like System Preferences, which opens unlocked when you are an adminstrator. I hear ya on the issue that when you lock it, it unlocks, and I recognize that this is not consistent with System Preferences. However, we have to prioritize some pretty big efforts and while I will bring this up and see what is possible, I cannot promise anything at this point. 

Honestly, what I really want to do is get to work on the next version of the product, which I think will be pretty awesome. Norton AntiVirus 11 has been out for awhile and we all are looking forward to overhauling it.

This forum has been really useful as we work with you to make our software better and I appreciate the chance to talk with all of you. I do hope you realize how seriously we take this and, personally, I hope you realize that you are not just talking to random people--we are the team that is making these products, day and and day out, and I know I take all of this stuff rather personally...probably a bit too personally, truth be told.  As those of you who have emailed me (and the rest of my team), I think you know much we really do care about all this stuff. 

I apologize to those of you who are frustrated with the changes in the locks. I was talking to Ryan and there is a way to change this behavior, you just need to set a preference. I have asked him to provide those instructions on this thread.

thanks. I really gotta sleep.

-mike 

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 20-Nov-2009 | 9:36AM · Permalink

Mike,

Thanks for the response ...

I would expect the inability to lock the settings is a concern for all of the users of Norton Antivirus.

I guess I'm also puzzled as to why the lock function would be retained in Confidential (particularly since it is a part of the total application) and dropped from Antivirus. Somehow that doesn't make sense to me.

If it was done in response to user requests ... I'd be amazed.  The previous versions all (as far back as I can remember ... and I've used it for years) provided the lock as a security measure.  Somehow it doesn't make sense to remove any security function.

By the way, I get the impression from your post that the Preferences do lock.  Not so with my copy!  It also unlocks within a second of my attempting to lock it.

That means that NO setting in Norton Antivirus is protected ... in that it can be inadvertently changed by the user (accidentally changing protection criteria) or purposely by someone with intent.

While I realize that your plate is full ... I (and I expect others) feel that the ability to protect the settings of an application that was purchased to provide computer security is in fact a priority item.

Get some rest!

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 20-Nov-2009 | 11:49AM · Permalink

Thanks for your response-

Oh, I was talking about System Preferences.  I talked it over with Ryan and Elliott just now and we're looking into ways of addressing this in our next engine update.  It's kind of voodoo, this whole Lock thing (seriously, I have said the word "lock" more in the past two days than at any other point in my life) and apparently even the Apple documentation on it is kind of hazy.  We actually may file an incident with Apple to see exactly how to get it working correctly.

Suffice to say, your feedback on this--all of you feedback on this--is being listened to and was literally the last thing on my mind as I went to sleep and the first thing on my mind when I woke up.  (Yes, I need a life, badly.) We are researching this (we need to make sure we have a proper way to address this kind of thing in the new versions) and when we get more information, you will know. 

thanks,

mike

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 20-Nov-2009 | 1:25PM · Permalink

Thanks Mike ...

We wait your resolution of this issue.

I'm not a software engineer, so I won't pretend to understand the problems you face in making the Lock in Antivirus an execuatable function ... the way it used to be.

However, I am curious ... Lock functions correctly in Confidential ... but it does not in Antivirus (yet it has for years).

What changed?  Do I hear you saying that Apple is the cause?  How?  Why does one application's Lock work correctly while the other's doesn't?

Thanks.

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 20-Nov-2009 | 1:29PM · Permalink

Let's see--the locks in Norton Confidential have remain unchanged from the original release of the product...we made an actual change in Norton AntiVirus 11.1 to mirror what was happening in the firewall portion.  We didn't make the change in Norton Confidential because of Confidential Data--if we made the unlocked, then you could see the confidential data -- the individual strings--when you opened the app.

I didn't mean to say that Apple was the cause of anything in this case--we just made a change to the antivirus product based on user feedback and now we are considering other options based on the feedback we are getting now.

thanks,

mike

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 20-Nov-2009 | 2:05PM · Permalink

I too would like the locks to remain locked when i click on them. I i want them to remain open i'll just leave them alone. i bought the product for security.
Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 20-Nov-2009 | 6:36PM · Permalink

I just updated my copy of Norton Antivirus on my home Mac and noticed that none of the locks on any screen stay locked.  I came to this forum and found this thread.

Watching the preferences on my AV program automatically unsecure themselves and being unable to lock them made my skin crawl.  If not for this thread, I'd be contacting Symantec tech support right now to report what I had suspected to be a malfunction or bug.  I suppose I can get into the habit of logging off or locking my home computer whenever I have to leave it unattended, as I already do my office computer, but I have to say that I'd personally prefer the lock icon to stay locked in admin accounts.

I think Symantec completely overlooked the psychological effect this would have. 

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 21-Nov-2009 | 8:13AM · Permalink

The issue I have with this change is I have LoJack installed on my computer and it contacts the Monitoring Center daily when the computer is connected to the internet. If my computer is stolen the settings can be changed to block the connection by a thief without entering a password.  It seems like I just wasted my money on LoJack.
Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 21-Nov-2009 | 10:53AM · Permalink

Hi MIke, 
In reply to your post 132: issue #3 for now appears it may have been resolved but won't now for sure until say  a week or two from now, so if you don't hear about it by then consider it resolved by the 11/17 update.
As for NF and NAV locks, it's much awkward to say that Admin Users of firewall and antivirus applications prefer such applications not to be locked when they are using them or even that the number of users who are for or against the locks are equal in number. So far all the users comments I read so far prefer them to be locked. If NIS tech team believed as such from the start then why such promises and expectation were made for the last year over and over that a fix will address the locks.
Any way, i am much surprised you're not waking up saying "locks .. locks .... locks" similar as in Peter Yates film Breaking Away "refund .. refund .... refund"
Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 21-Nov-2009 | 12:35PM · Permalink

Mike,

The following is a statement you made earlier in the post ...

"1 - balancing out the demands of the many, many people who wanted the locks to change with the frustrations of the people who liked it the way it was".

I don't know, it just seems to me that changing the software so that the functions can't be locked (to protect the secuity settings) is counter intuative to any software written to provide computer security.

Simply put ... it takes away the ability of the software user (purchaser) the ability to provide the security he/she felt that they were buying.

My point being is that I really question the statement "many, many people who wanted the locks to change".  I would have thought that the overwhelming majority would have opted for the secuity of allowing them to secure their settings by virtue of the Lock function.

When you think about it ... why did Norton even bother to leave the Lock there ... when it was not meant to be functional?  Why bother, when it "wasn't meant to work".  Why not remove it altogether?

I'm sorry Mike, but I'm more of the opinion that the current state of the Lock function was an error in the way the updated program was written.

That said, I sincerely hope that there is a concerted effort to make the Lock functional again. Sooner rather than later (not as in the next release).

Thanks Mike for standing in there on this issue!  Your help is really appreciated.

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 22-Nov-2009 | 8:41PM · Permalink

I was tearing my hair out after repeatedly unistalling and reinstalling the anti virus program for Mac. When I heard about why the change not to lock the lock I was very concerned about the poor decision on Norton developers part. Why permanently unlock the program for admin. All my programs are locked for security sake. Why didn't you bother to tell program owners of this poorly thought out change. I've had recent port scans and thought a virus had been downloaded. Please fix the concern asap. If not Virus Barrier seems to rate better. I really do not want to change since I have used Norton when it first came on the market.
Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 23-Nov-2009 | 10:25AM · Permalink

thanks for the feedback guys!

Yeah, it certainly looks like, at least according to this thread that people want those locks back the way they were!  Come on, doesn't anyone like the new behavior? 

okay, well, suffice to say, I am working with Ryan to make it easy for you change this until we can fix it with a patch (if we can with our schedule).  I will be back in touch.

-mike

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 23-Nov-2009 | 4:44PM · Permalink

Thanks Mike ...

I appreciate your response!!!

I'm sure that a lot more than have posted have a preference to have the ability to secure their settings with the Lock function.

How will we know when a fix has been completed?

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 24-Nov-2009 | 4:49PM · Permalink

mikeromo: I like the new behaviour. I just don't see the point of having to reenter your password when you're an admin. Yes it's true someone could go up to your machine and mess with it... but it should be locked anyway.

Also, if someone wanted to mess with a machine that is unlocked why would they spend their time re-configuring Norton Antivirus when they could just go to Finder and delete everything? Everything is out in the open anyway, not just Norton, if you're that worried about someone messing with you. 

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 25-Nov-2009 | 4:27AM · Permalink

Thank you for the thread; it was very informative.

I'm still not clear on the difference in usefulness of the lock features in Mac system (security) preferences versus NAV preferences. Why does Mac offer it as an option to begin with? I was under the impression that it was there not only to prevent malicious users from changing your preferences by physically accessing your computer, but also for an added layer of security against possible multiple layers of attacks from remote sites or any combination therein. If this is the case, wouldn't this also apply to NAV?

I would appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks!

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 01-Dec-2009 | 3:58PM · Permalink

The panel should be locked by default.

Anything else nonsensical.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 01-Dec-2009 | 4:27PM · Permalink

hi guys--

I just wanted to let you know that we are, right now, planning to revert the behavior to the way it used to be.  We have an update to address some issues and update the Vulnerability protection engine and we'll roll the fix into this. 

It's not going to be this month--the holidays--but we're working on the update and I will give you more details as they come.

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it, and just know we're taking action.

best,

mike

Kudos0

Re: 4.1 changes - lock behavior changed for antivirus

Posted: 01-Dec-2009 | 6:56PM · Permalink

Thanks, Mike!

It's good to hear that the panel will be secured again. 

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