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Kudos0

Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

My son is able to change the device time on his Windows computer to subvert the curfews monitored by Norton Family.

Norton Family detects the device time change (good), but does not report it to me immediately (not so good), and does not prevent it (not so good either).

Is there a way to prevent user time-changes on the monitored machine?  Alternatively, can I be immediately notified?

By way of explanation. curfew cuts in at 8pm.  At 7:40pm with impending curfew, the time was changed to 5:40pm to allow continued use!  I discovered this 2 days later, by luck, when checking alert logs.

Replies

Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

As an addendum to the above problem:

There is no apparent log when the time is extended by entering Parents credentials into my Son's computer.

This would seem to be an oversight, or am I missing something?

We have had problems with Norton Family client not forcing logouts, and I am at a loss as to why.  The Norton program seems to be 'locking up'.  I have just reinstalled it, so we'll see if that fixes things.

In fairness, I am really describing three separate issues:

1.  No email alert or restrictions changing system time on client

2. No alert if credentials are used to overcome time restriction

3. Client locks up and doesn't do its job on occasions.

Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

Hi hcornea,

Below are my answers to the three issues:

1. Norton Family doesn't restrict users from changing the time or Time zones, as it is a Windows feature. We will be sending an alert to parents when the child changes time or time zone in their machine.

Besides monitoring kids' online activities and keeping them safe, the Norton Family program was also designed to encourage communications and provide opportunities to exchange ideas between parents and children.

2. Credentials are supposed to be kept by the parent only, so child shouldn't be able to extend time on his/her own.  Can you please explain why you think we need to send an alert for this action?

3.  We show 60 seconds alert window thrice a day irrespective of completion of daily allowance or during curfew hours.  For rest of the day, it directly displays Extend time dialog.  If a user made soft restriction, then Restriction alert box alone get displayed.   It won’t display any 60 seconds or extend time window.
 

Thanks

Katie

Thanks Katie
Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

Thankyou for your reply, Katie.

I appreciate Norton Family's commendable aim of improving communication as well as monitoring.

With regard to email notifications of system time changes, is this currently available?  The alert is appears in the alert log, but clearly this requires logging in to the site and checking it.  Is there a setting I am not seeing to enable emailing of this?  In contrast I am notified by email of reaching time limits, reaching curfew, logins after curfew etc, etc.  I would be more interested in immediate notification of a system time change, than of reaching allotted time or curfew.  By the way, changing the system time DOES successfully circumvent Norton Family curfews !!  It really should not be able to.

Clearly my credentials are 'supposed' to be mine alone.  Logging their use is pretty basic security functionality to correlate with when I have used them to override Norton Family settings.  Put another way, if they appear on the log, and I have not authorised a time extension then I can be alerted to the fact that the credentials have been compromised.  I don't need an alert per se, but I am surprised not to find this logged anywhere at all on the Norton Family site.  As it stands, there is no way to see if time has been extended by unauthorised use of my credentials.

As you will appreciate, children like to push boundaries  Obtaining parent credentials is a reasonable ploy and concern (especially since I can potentially be watched entering them on the occasions I extend usage times for him)  Basic logging would seem in order, as it is on most devices and sites where credentials are required.  The absence of it does seem to be an oversight.

I am fairly certain that the Norton client was locking up/crashing.  I say this because the computer was used on a number of times outside House Rules, and on investigation the Norton tray icon was non-responsive.  I have since removed and reinstalled it.  It would appear to be functioning now - but time will tell.  It is probably more likely a failure of the program than incorrect use of my credentials that has allowed the extra use ... but I have no way of being able to tell without a proper log!


 

Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

One other thing to note is that only administrators of the PC should be able to change the time/time zone. Children should not have administrative permissions on your machine.

Accepted Solution
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

Hi hcornea,

You said "With regard to email notifications of system time changes, is this currently available?"

The program currently creates alerts online for the action.  The team will add feature sending email notification right away in a future update.

You said "here is no way to see if time has been extended by unauthorised use of my credentials."

I'll report your request for creating alert when extending time to the team.

You said "on investigation the Norton tray icon was non-responsive." To avoid and limit the possibility to tamper/disable the system, please give non-administrative rights (limited or restricted) to your child’s  user account and keep the password for your Norton Online Family account away from the child.

Thanks

Katie
 

Thanks Katie
Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

Thanks Katie and Matt,

That should address things.

With regard to the administrator issue, this has become a problem since Microsoft replaced multiple levels of user accounts with just the two: User and Administrator.  In short User is too restricted, and Admin is too powerful!

I am keen for my son to have more than just a 'consumer' knowledge of how his computer and operating system works.  We built it together, troubleshoot it together, and he learns the consequences of what he puts on it.  Further, many games on steam require elevated privileges to be able to update.  For these reasons I specifically changed his account to an Administrator level account.

In terms of knowing the market, prior to this, Windows inbuilt time restrictions sufficed for monitoring total use.  These parental controls can not be used with an Admin account - which is where Norton Family came in.  You could say that the entire reason we use the product is because of the need for the Admin account!  The other monitoring features (content, websites) are interesting, but a non-issue in terms of our use of your product.

Once again, many thanks.

Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

hcornea,

Great!  Thanks for the update and sharing your valuable thought with us.

Thanks

Katie

Thanks Katie
Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

Hi Katie,

I am completely agree with hcornea's point of view and concern about changing system time on devices controlled by Norton Family.

Gee - it appears that Norton Family DOES NOT hold this control at all! Subject of control can easily override it in two clicks!

Yes, parents have to provide admin rights to child. That is because virtually no game, no software will go and run without admin priviligies.

Norton says: limit child's priviligies. That's no answer to parents' concerns, I believe. I do allow my child to configure their devices as they like. There's no real threat about that - I can easily roll devices back to inital state and no harm would be done. What is my actual concern is their mind! That's what I want Norton Family help me to preserve. And limitation time of using devices is one of valuable options of child  security that Norton Family offer to customers.

But Norton Family does not secure it!

Don't tell us that there is no way to give a user administrative rights while limit his/her abilities to overrun control of parents. See how it is done by another software.
http://nicekit.com/screenshots/tb_options.png
http://nicekit.com/screenshots/tb_main.png

http://nicekit.com/parental-control-software.htm
 

Kudos0

Re: Device Time Change to get around curfews - Win7 x64

Hi lkicww,

Thanks for sharing the valuable thought with us.  I'll share your feedback with the team.  I agree that children sometimes need the admin rights to use the PC.  But there is a price that comes along with admin rights... Users with admin rights can do almost anything with any programs on the PC.  I checked the screen shots you sent.  There is feature that seems to not allow child to access Control Panel, which is good, but if  a child with admin wants to tamper the system, there are so many other ways to do so.

Norton Family blocks, sends notification alerts and/or emails to the parent when certain restricted behaviors attempted or happened.

Thanks

Katie

Thanks Katie

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