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Kudos0

Email Error 421.4.7.0

We get this error 421.4.7.0 rainier.ispn.net error too many errors.  I found a solution in the Norton Community to disable outgoing email scanning in Norton.  I did this and everything was fine for a couple of weeks and then we received the same error yesterday.  It only happens on one email that gets sent to a distribution list.  We have Norton Internet Security and Outlook 2010.  Is there anything else I can do to resolve this issue.

Replies

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

That SMTP error can arise from your email message having too many recipients, resulting in more simultaneous server connections than your email service provider allows.  The size of your distribution list may exceed what your email service provider is able to handle.

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

I have the same distribution list as my boss and I don't receive that error.

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

I talked with my ISP and explained what was going one and they said to disable the outgoing email scanner.  I told them that I did that already and they said that Norton should not be giving that error if the outgoing email scan was disabled.  These are the steps that I took to disable it.  Please let me know if there is something else I should be doing in the Norton settings.

Open Norton

Go to setting, then click on Antivirus, then click on scans and risks, then click on configure email antivirus scan, then uncheck the box for scan outgoing messages.

I will take a look at the error message again when it happens.

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Hi.

I work for Symantec in development. I recently had an issue come in from our tech support with the same 421 4.7.0 message. The suggested solution did not work for their case either.

SMTP message 421 4.7.0 is returned by a mail server. rainer.ispn.net the name of the rejecting server. Is this your outbound SMTP mail server you set up in outlook?

The exact wording in the message will vary, but essentially what the message says is a threshold on the server has been exceeded. It could be any number of causes. It can be the number of people your mail is addressed to. It may occur if the sender's address fails a reverse lookup or cannot be verified. It might occur if the server scans messages for SPAM and your message has enough matches. Assuming you are not mass mailing SPAM, a common reason to see this is the mail server is in a transitional state that prevents it from processing mail at the moment. 

We encounter two different versions of this error. You have the temporary sporadic version since it sounds like most of the time it works.  The mail server issues two messages in your case. The first is 421, which is "too many errors". We also have 4.7.0. It is the extended message. It says "Please Try Again Later". SMTP messages starting with 4xx or 4.x.x are categorized as "Temporary Errors".

When the email proxy scans outbound messages, it can't hold the connection open indefinitely. The client may report 250 or 221 success, before reporting 421 failure. I promise you that the 421 4.7.0 message does not come internally from our software. It is an external error and the email proxy is just the messenger.

Have you tried resending the same message a few more times when it returns this error? Mail servers are usually clustered and your mail may not be processed by the same server the next time you send it. You may want to add your own email address to the CC line. The mail server may encounter errors if the receiver's mail server rejects it. In this case, some of the messages are processed and others are not. By sending a copy to your inbox you can see if your mail server is relaying your message at all.

The second type of 421 4.7.0 error is "it never works not matter what". There are so many different mail server programs, and numerous ways to configure these servers. Configuration issues can cause these persistent errors. I am not trying to say your problem is not important because it don't happen all the time. Trying to find the cause of this error is always difficult. When the problem comes and goes and cannot be reproduced at will, the underlying reason may never be found. I spent two weeks last month looking at logs and packet captures trying to find the cause of this error. I am sorry but the only suggestion I can give is next time you get this error please remember to "try again later". If that doesn't solve this problem, or you can reproduce this problem every time at will let us know. 

Tim McCormick
Symantec

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Thank you for responding.  In your message you state " It is an external error and the email proxy is just the messenger."  Are you saying the problem is my ISP for my email?

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Hi.

It can be any mail server in the delivery chain. for this time it is rainier.ispn.net sending the message. It may be your ISP or it could be one of the mail servers on the delivery end. if ISPN.net is the domain name of your isp provider than it would be coming from your ISP. The error should only be a temporary condition.  If you always get this error no matter what, that is a different type of problem. But for what the RFC 3463 calls "Persistent Transient Failure", the suggestion is to resend.

Thanks
Tim McCormick
Symantec

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Thank you for responding.  I worked with my ISP and forwarded what you had told me to them.  They said that because I am able to send to the same distribution list without any problem that the issue is with that particular computer/Outlook.  What do you make of this?

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Hi.

This is the problem with this error. Without having a 100% reproducible case were using the mailing list fails on use every time it goes out, the nature of the error makes it very difficult to track down who is responsible for the error.

With a reproducible case, we can enable debug logging in our product. For this issue, that will not be enough. In addition, there has to be a network packet capture program on the network between the client and the mail server because we need to make sure that this error is coming from the mail server. Having both our product's logs and the packet capture log we can coordinate the traffic on the network with the behavior of the product. But both have to be running together and this error must also happen.

As for the ISP, they probably feel the same way. The mail goes through most of time and unless it is happening at the time you contact them, they will probably not be able to do much. From either side, the only way we can really get to the bottom of who is to blame is when there is a case that can be reproduced at will.

There are some cases where the client is not configured correctly for the server, but from the client side it never works.

How frequently does this happen? Many times each day? A few times a week? Maybe once a month? When did it last happen?

Are you sure that the mail is not getting sent anyway? This is not a fatal error and it doesn't always mean the message was not processed.

I have never seen this error occur in the email proxy. I have direct access to the people who developed and tested the component. They assure me this error is not coming from the mail proxy.

Next time it happens try to resend it. if resending it also comes back with the same error, that may be reproducible enough to get a packet capture and debug logs. But we need to have this kind of predictability to say anything for certain.

The product has a utility that captures wpp logs. "Wireshark" is a network sniffer that has packet capture. I can get detailed instructions on what to do if you are interested. But you have to know that the error is going to happen otherwise it is a waste of time. And network capture is not discreet, so other traffic and private data may be included in the logs.

I want to find a reproducible case. Last time I worked on this the customer was in Europe and it added some additional complexity because all the error messages were in Hungarian. The logs with the error did not happen when the network capture software was enabled. They tried 22 more times with the packet capture on and nothing went wrong. 

I also want to let customers know that this error usually fixes itself when it doesn't reproduce at will.

Thanks

Tim McCormick
Symantec

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

HI,

This is now happening every time he sends an email to this list.  Even upon resending it still happens.  He knows it's not going through because he has talked to the recipients and they have not received it. 

What is mail proxy?

You said: " In addition, there has to be a network packet capture program on the network between the client and the mail server because we need to make sure that this error is coming from the mail server. Having both our product's logs and the packet capture log we can coordinate the traffic on the network with the behavior of the product. But both have to be running together and this error must also happen."

What is your log?  When you say your log and the packet capture log, for the packet capture log are you talking about Wireshark?

Will the packet capture tell us definitely where the error is coming from and if it is an Outlook problem? 

Candace

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

How many recipients are there on the distribution list?

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

There are 37.  I have the same list on my PC and when I send to it I don't get the error.

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Hi.

Thanks. I am sorry that resending is not solving the issue. This should be a good one to investigate.

The reason why we need to use wireshark is because in order to convince anyone that the error is coming from the mail server we need to see the message leaving the client, crossing the network, and SMTP 421 error message being returned back to the client.

The other reason why we need to see the network activity is to verify that we aren't sending out poorly formed junk that would cause the server to reject it. These are the primary reasons for asking for a network capture. It may not be acceptable to your ISP, but you can show them evidence of the error's source and the metadata is traceable back to a single mail server somewhere.

This is very close to a long weekend. I need to make contact with other teams first. I will have to search for the directions or ask support for what we did for the last customer. It sounds like you are familiar with wireshark. if you can set it up yourself without detailed instructions, let me know. That would be very helpful.

Contact me by private message and let me know if starting next week is acceptable.

Thanks
Tim McCormick

Symantec

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

Hi,

I don't know how to contact you by private message.  I am not familiar with Wireshark, but I know what a protocol analyzer does.  I can install it on my bosses PC and try to get it set up.  I need to clear it with him first.  I can only work on his computer from 3 pm to 4:30 pm Monday through Thursday and from 12 pm to 2:30 pm on Fridays pacific time. 

We'll do the capture from my bosses PC, correct?  My ISP will not be doing a capture, correct?

I need to clear this with my boss as well.  I don't think it will be a problem.

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

I will definitely need help setting this up.

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

OK. I will prepare the directions and figure out how the private messaging works up here. I will contact you on the july 5.

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

I just sent you a private message. 

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

I receive error message 452 4.5.3 (D2)

"Too many recipients"

This occurs every time I send mail to a contact group of about 300 recipients.   The mail is send as a bcc copy to the group.

My ISP says that 300 should be no problem

Kudos0

Re: Email Error 421.4.7.0

RL Block:

My ISP says that 300 should be no problem

Your ISP's server is saying otherwise.  Who is your ISP?

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