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Kudos0

Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Over the past two weeks, Norton Security has been performing "scans" in my laptop during and after the System Backup using Seagate Dashboard Agent. The "scans" will only start during the system backstop and stop after I force a restart of the laptop.

For these "unknown" behaviors, I have been uninstalling and reinstalling the Norton Security software using NRR tool more than four times in a row. I had even added the NBCore.exe file under Silent mode however the problem remained and burned my laptop to 80 deg C.  

Finally I found the problem, that is, Norton Security sees the laptop as "Idle" at the start of the system backup and even after the end of the system operation, see attached images. It should be noted that I was using the browser or typing word documents all these times. 

This issue only appeared after the 22.15 updates. This is very disruptive and I hope the admin will resolve the bug really soon. 

Replies

Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Here are the screenshots: 

Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Good morning. Do you also have backup enabled in your Norton product as well as the Seagate Dashboard Agent? If so disable the Norton backup feature and reboot. Retry your backup as you currently have it set. Also ensure full screen detection is disabled as it is set to ON under the initial install settings. This older thread, although discussing gaming may give some insight as well. Using silent mode, or quiet mode and the scans do not stop usually means something is conflicting. If you are also on Windows 10 disable "fast boot" and restart. Here is how.

Cheers

Retired military (Navy 1980-2002) AO1 (AW) Aviation Warfare Specialist "From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Professional x 64 version 1809 / build 17763.437 / NCSP 22.17.0.183 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 1.93
Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Good day to you too and thanks for your kind reply. To your questions: 
- My Norton Security Deluxe does not come with Norton backup service.
- My full screen detection mode is on. However, I note that this mode has always been on in the previous editions of Norton Security and I have not seen the Idle Time Error before. 
- For completeness, I restarted the Seagate backup and now attached the NS Performance graphs more than 10 min after the Seagate backup. I have physically removed the backup disc but the Norton "unknown" scan is still continuing.     
- With reference to the gaming thread, I have disabled Full Scan schedule previously. In fact I ran a full scan yesterday in case Norton Security would like to index the files after my reinstallation yesterday. But the problem still remains as per above.  
- I am on Win 8.1 with "fast boot" disabled and so the removal and reinstallation of NS 22.15.1.8 should be complete.  

Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Hi ithacacina:

If you click your mouse inside the Performance Graph during one of these idle times with yellow peaks of Norton activity, does the pop-up show that the Seagate Dashboard NBCore.exe file is the only non-Norton executable that is running at the same time?  For example, here's a sample image showing the pop-up displayed when Firefox (firefox.exe) and Process Explorer (procexp.exe) (both shown as blue peaks of activity) were running on my computer at the same time as a manual Quick Scan.

My comments below assume that NBCore.exe is the only non-Norton "problem" executable running in the background.

I've seen instances where the Norton's Auto-Protect will "wake up" and start monitoring a running executable if the program isn't fully trusted by Norton - for example, if the program is rarely downloaded and run by other users in the wider Norton community so that Norton Insight gives the executable a poor/unknown trust rating, or if Norton's heuristic (behaviour-based) real-time protection doesn't like the way the executable behaves because it is making rapid disk read/writes or multiple changes to the Windows registry.  If your Performance Graph shows that NBCore.exe is the "problem" executable running in the background go to Settings | Antivirus | Scans and Risks | Exclusions / Low Risks and add scan exclusions for this file at both Items to Exclude from Scans (to prevent detection during a "traditional" file scan like a Quick Scan) and Items to Exclude from Auto-Protect, SONOR, and Download Intelligence Detection (to prevent detection by Norton's real-time protection).  The support article Exclude Files and Folders from Norton Auto-Protect, SONAR, and Download Intelligence Scans has detailed instructions on how to create these scan exclusions so that Norton ignores this executable file when it's running.

Putting Norton into Quiet Mode when NBCore.exe is running (Settings | Administrative Settings | Silent Mode Settings | Quiet Mode on Dection Of: | User-Specified Programs | Configure) will prevent scheduled Norton background tasks like Automatic LiveUpdates, Quick Scans, etc. from running if NBCore.exe continues to run after your system enters idle mode, but Quiet Mode doesn't suppress Norton's real-time protection.  If Norton's Auto-Protect is "waking up" and monitoring NBCore.exe in real-time because it doesn't like the way the executable is behaving then creating scan exclusions for NBCore.exe (or whatever Dashboard executable is responsible) might solve your your problem.  It might even be necessary to create scan exclusions for the entire Dashboard installation folder (e.g., C:\Program Files (x86)\Seagate\Seagate Dashboard) if there is no one specific executable file causing the problem.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security Premium v22.15.1.8

Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Hi Imacri, thanks for your suggestions.
- I did come across some of the earlier forum posts and have already added the NBCore.exe and Dashboard.exe under QuietMode and Items to Exclude for Scans, Auto-Protect and Sonar. Unfortunately the issue did not go away.
- I followed your advice to place the entire Seagate folder under Items to Exclude. However, Norton Security continues to execute the "unknown" scans ten minutes after the backup operation was completed.
- Here are a couple of screenshots I took before restarting my laptop. As you can see, Dashboard.exe only used for less than 5% of the CPU and completed the operation. Norton took up the bulk of the CPU and continued onwards.   
- Greatly appreciate to learn more insights from you. 

Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Hi ithacacian:

Go to Settings | Administrative Settings | Background Tasks | Configure and see if you can match the Last Run time of one or more "normal" Norton background tasks to one of these periods of high CPU consumption by nortonsecurity.exe.  I ran a manual Quick Scan today (see my comments below about CPU temperatures) so Ran During Idle is "No" for this particular scan.

Some of these background tasks can't be disabled [e.g., a Quick Scan will always be scheduled to run during a system idle after any Automatic LiveUpdate delivers a updated SDS (virus) definition set]  but there are several Norton tasks like the Idle Time Optimizer (disk defragmenter) that can be safely disabled without compromising your Norton protection.  See my post in C_Swords' thread My CPU is Being Abused by Norton for a list of settings that can be disabled to reduce your CPU consumption by nortonsecurity.exe.

When you say that this high period of activity by nortonsecurity.exe "burned my laptop to 80 deg C" is this your CPU or hard drive temperature?  I monitored my CPU temperature with Piriform's free Speccy utility today after starting a manual Quick Scan (no other tasks running) and it's normal for the temperature of my old Intel Core2Duo T5550 CPU to peak around 70 - 75 degs C under these conditions.  If your CPU temperature is a concern (and your cooling fan and thermal paste for your heat sink are both in good working order) try adjusting your default Idle Time Out settings (e.g., increase Settings | Administrative Settings | Idle Time Out from 10 to 15 min) and see if this gives your CPU a bit longer to cool down after a Seagate Dashboard backup and before your background Norton tasks start running.

You might also want to read through Snowman1's recent thread Puzzled by Recent Norton Security Quick Scan Times.  This user has a Win 7 SP1 PC with a SSD and Intel Core i7-3770K CPU (4 cores / 8 threads).  Since upgrading to Norton 22.15.x Snowman1 has noticed that their Quick Scans will often run for a long period of time (10 min vs the usual 2.5 min) and saturate one thread of their quad core CPU (100/8 = 12.5% activity).  Snowman1 hasn't reported any negative impact on their system like CPU overheating, and a second-opinion on-demand scan with the free Malwarebytes scanner didn't find any malware that might have been missed by Norton, but they are still curious why these long Quick Scans recently started on their computer. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reproduce the problem on my own computer and haven't been much help with their troubleshooting.  I suggested a clean re-install of Norton (which is much more thorough than a regular uninstall/reinstall) but Snowman1 didn't want to try this since it would have removed other Norton products installed on their computer.

EDIT:

...and just FYI, the dwm.exe process shown in your Performance Graph pop-up is likely your Win 8.1 Desktop Windows Manager - see the How-To Geek article What Is Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe) and Why Is It Running?.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * NS v22.15.1.8 * Speccy Portable v1.32.740
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

Hi Imacri: Thanks again for your reply. 

- Prior to starting this thread, I read your earlier posts in those threads and implemented disabling the tasks and increasing idle times but my issue still persist.
- Attached here are a couple more screenshots I took after during my latest Seagate Dashboard system backup, end of the backup and 10 min after the backup operation. Specifically Norton Security is working on something that I cannot identify as no background tasks were running during that period (the 10 min window was from 9.48 to 9.59 am).
- The temperature readings were captured by CPUID HWMonitor. Earlier I already completed a full Norton system scan and MalwareByte scan and nothing was found.

During Backup: 

End of the Backup: 

10 min after Backup: 

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

All: Just a thought on the subject. When I first bought my external Seagate backup drive I formatted that drive to remove the preinstalled software package that came with the drive. Why? To avoid conflicts with Norton itself. I have used NSBU backup since (5 plus years) without any issues using the Seagate as the target local backup device for Norton backup. No abnormal CPU over temps or excessive disk writes.

Another note (from the screenshots) is what appears to be Samsung SSD as the master boot drive. Windows 8 and above will send "retrim" commands to an SSD. Although Windows will not on its own attempt to defrag the SSD, although Norton always will with the boot drive, it will schedule optimization. Disable trim per the article attached on a temp basis, see if there are different results.

Cheers

Retired military (Navy 1980-2002) AO1 (AW) Aviation Warfare Specialist "From DOS to Windows10 what a journey it has been" / MS Certified Professional / Windows 10 Professional x 64 version 1809 / build 17763.437 / NCSP 22.17.0.183 / Norton Core v.282 on Android 1.93
Kudos0

Re: Idle Time Error in Norton Security 22.15.1.8

ithacacian:

- Prior to starting this thread, I read your earlier posts in those threads and implemented disabling the tasks and increasing idle times but my issue still persist.
- Attached here are a couple more screenshots I took after during my latest Seagate Dashboard system backup, end of the backup and 10 min after the backup operation. Specifically Norton Security is working on something that I cannot identify as no background tasks were running during that period (the 10 min window was from 9.48 to 9.59 am).

Hi ithacacian:

I can't tell the exact time when your Seagate Dashboard backup started and finished from those images, but one of your images shows that three Norton Tasks (Norton Community Watch, Automatic LiveUpdate and Disk Optimizer) ran outside of a system idle (Ran During Idle = NO).  How often do you run your Seagate backups, and are they run manually or on a fixed schedule?

It's unusual for an Automatic LiveUpdate (ALU) and Norton Community Watch (NCW) to be running outside of a system idles, so do you recall running either of these tasks manually before or after your Seagate backup ended?  If your automatic Norton idletime tasks like ALUs and NCWs are frequently running outside of system idles that could be pointing to a corrupted Norton installation, and a clean reinstall of NS Deluxe v22.15.1.8 as instructed in freespace77's thread Windows Defender Still Active might be advisable.  Just note that running the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool in advanced "Remove Only" mode (STEP # 3 of those clean reinstall instructions) will also remove other Norton products like Norton Utilities, Norton Family, etc. so post back for modified instructions if you have other Norton software installed.

Also, the status of your Disk Optimizer task is Canceled (not Complete), which means that you still have a Norton disk defrag / SSD trim trying to run to completion that pauses when your system is taken out of idle and and resumes when your system goes back into idle.  Be sure you disabled all the unnecessary Norton background tasks listed in C_Swords thread My CPU is Being Abused by Norton and please note that there are two different settings that have to be disabled to stop disk defrags by Norton (Task Scheduling | Automatic Tasks | Disk Optimization and Administrative Settings | Idle Time Optimizer). Once Norton schedules a disk optimization it must run to completion, so after you disable these settings you might have to leave your system in idle for a significant period of time and allow these tasks to run to completion before the status of both the Disk Optimizer and Insight Optimizer change to Complete at Settings | Administrative Settings | Background Tasks | Configure and these tasks finally stop running.

My best guess at this point is that you have a Norton disk defrag / SSD trim trying to run to completion during system idles that is pushing up your CPU temperature. If this occurs immediately after a CPU-intensive Seagate Dashboard backup that could be pushing your CPU temp into the red.

If that doesn't help please confirm that you added scan exclusion at Settings | Antivirus | Scans and Risks | Exclusions / Low Risks for your entire Seagate Dashboard installation folder for both Items to Exclude from Scans (to prevent detection during a "traditional" file scan like a Quick Scan) and Items to Exclude from Auto-Protect, SONOR, and Download Intelligence Detection (to prevent detection by Norton's real-time protection).

One other thing to note is that you should see two instances of nortonsecurity.exe (with two different process identifiers or PIDs) that run on your computer if you select "Show processes from all users" in your Windows Task Manager.  The process that runs under user SYSTEM manages your real-time malware protection, while the second runs under your Windows user account and manages non-critical tasks like background tasks and graphical rendering of your Norton interface.  That way if the GUI or a non-critical task crashes it will not affect your real-time protection.  As long as your Norton interface is open you will always see some CPU consumed by the nortonsecurity process running under your Windows user account.  Here' what I see with Microsoft Systinternal's free Process Explorer utility (note that my NS Premium is also called NS with Backup so my installation folder is C:\Program Files\Norton Security with Backup). 

I don't know how you monitor your system to see which processes are consuming CPU and/or RAM during your system idles, but I prefer using Process Explorer over Windows Task Manager diagnosing these types of problems.  Just unzip the ProcessExplorer.zip file and then double-click the appropriate executable (procexp.exe for a 32-bit OS; procexp64.exe for a 64-bit OS) - no software installation required.  If you sort the CPU column (with processes consuming the highest CPU consumption at the top) you might be able to catch a spike in CPU consumption by svchost.exe (the Windows Service host process) or some other executable running during a system idle.  Process Explorer also has a graph that will trace processes consuming CPU and RAM in real time, but it only has a short 5 minute window.

I posted details in the VistaForums thread Processes in Task Manager During Updates about how I was able to diagnose a Windows Update problem on my computer using Process Explorer that might be helpful, but your problem might be a bit more difficult to diagnose because your background idletime tasks should be cancelled (paused) every time you bring your system out of idle.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * NS v22.15.1.8 * Process Explorer v16.21

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