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Kudos0

Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

just received the new patch - atm everything seems to be working fine, but NIS took much longer to load up - maybe it's because it's the 1st reboot after applying the patch - no other issues atm

[edit: changed subject to better reflect thread topic] 

Message Edited by Tim on 11-10-2009 03:49 PM
----------------------------------NIS 20.2.1.22Windows 7 64bit

Replies

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Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


allsorts wrote:

Got the update at last !   Dont know if itll fix the reboot errror but anyway..  will NIS 2010 be updated to the new version if alls well ,  so i can download the full program as  NIS 2010 17.1.0.19  ?

Thank you.



The reboot error is still there, sorry to say.
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


Boofo wrote:

allsorts wrote:

Got the update at last !   Dont know if itll fix the reboot errror but anyway..  will NIS 2010 be updated to the new version if alls well ,  so i can download the full program as  NIS 2010 17.1.0.19  ?

Thank you.



The reboot error is still there, sorry to say.

Boofo, it sounds like you need a separate thread for this issue.

Even if it means repeating yourself, would you get real specific on what you mean by a reboot error?

You've mentioned "crash".  Do you mean the computer had a BSOD, that it shut down when you didn't want it?  Do you mean you get an error message in the process of shutting down, but nothing else happened?  Did it kill other applications?  Did you lose data?  Was there a lockup?

Does the error (and/or crash) happen on the shut-down side of a reboot; or on the boot-up side of a reboot?  Does it happen before or after it passes by the log in/log out screen?

Are you using Norton System Works?

Have you used a registry cleaner to analyze your registry and to check your system for consistency?

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Some people have mentioned that this last patch has caused NIS2010 to render our systems noticeably slower. I agree. And it seems to me that this not only happens on booting, but also whenever you open a new application.

However, I have not seen any comment about this particular aspect from any of the several experts who give us all here the great benefit and the privilege of being around almost on a 24/7 basis, ready to provide help. Actually, I couldn't agree more with the many comments many people have made about the prompt, excellent, help they constantly provide here, making this forum a singularly outstanding one.

I, for one, would very much appreciate to read their opinion about that reported issue of real or perceived slugishness..  

As a collateral benefit... Coul anyone - please! - please, show me how to get rid of those old add-ons in Firefox 3.5.5? In my case, they are three: Norton IPS 1.0;  Norton Toolbar 3.7; and ThinkVantage Password Manager 3.01.

It's a little annoying, they are all disabled, but having been replaced by newer versions (except for the last one, which is stated to be incompatible) there must be a way of getting them removed. I just can't find how.     

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mijcar wrote:

Boofo wrote:

allsorts wrote:

Got the update at last !   Dont know if itll fix the reboot errror but anyway..  will NIS 2010 be updated to the new version if alls well ,  so i can download the full program as  NIS 2010 17.1.0.19  ?

Thank you.



The reboot error is still there, sorry to say.

Boofo, it sounds like you need a separate thread for this issue.

Even if it means repeating yourself, would you get real specific on what you mean by a reboot error?

You've mentioned "crash".  Do you mean the computer had a BSOD, that it shut down when you didn't want it?  Do you mean you get an error message in the process of shutting down, but nothing else happened?  Did it kill other applications?  Did you lose data?  Was there a lockup?

Does the error (and/or crash) happen on the shut-down side of a reboot; or on the boot-up side of a reboot?  Does it happen before or after it passes by the log in/log out screen?

Are you using Norton System Works?

Have you used a registry cleaner to analyze your registry and to check your system for consistency?


Boofo is referring to the same error as myself, It is nothing to do with our operating systems its an error in NIS 2010. !!!   The issue does NOT occur in 2009 version. there is no BSOD. It is an application error popup window on the shutting down/logging off screen.  Again it says " ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read "

Registry cleaning, reinstalling cannot fix  it. Something changed between the 2009 and 2010 versions and not for the better.

Even on a clean installed XP Pro system with no other software, this issue occurs.

Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Early last evening (11-12-2009) the new patch was all in during a manual live update I rebooted. As with any update that boot took longer, booting after install is not noticeably longer for my system (no stop watch used but it seems fine). Logs indicted no issues at this time.

I will update if any issues arise

I would like to add my thanks to the crew for their hard work

WIN XP home SP3 fully up to date, 2g RAM, older PC build, NIS 2010, NSW12

Windows 10 pro SP1 64bit
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


allsorts wrote:
there is no BSOD. It is an application error popup window on the shutting down/logging off screen.  Again it says " ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read "

Registry cleaning, reinstalling cannot fix  it. Something changed between the 2009 and 2010 versions and not for the better.

Even on a clean installed XP Pro system with no other software, this issue occurs.


If the only error you are talking about is a message you get at shutdown, this is a non-issue.  There is no crash.  There is no lost data.  There is no damage.  I am willing to pursue this further as I might have some insight into this.

But the way you and Boofo are giving us information is no use to me; and I doubt to anyone else.   The questions I ask must be asked.  And each of you can only answer for yourself.

I would much rather that you don't answer a series of questions in one long sentence.  You missed some of the questions I asked, questions which are highly relevant.  And, again, please only answer for yourself; Boofo can answer the same questions for himself.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


Boofo wrote:

allsorts wrote:

Got the update at last !   Dont know if itll fix the reboot errror but anyway..  will NIS 2010 be updated to the new version if alls well ,  so i can download the full program as  NIS 2010 17.1.0.19  ?

 

Thank you.



The reboot error is still there, sorry to say.

Boofo wrote:
I was referring to the ccSvcHst crashes on reboot. I am using Win XP Pro SP3 on an old P4 2.8 GHZ that I built myself over 10 years ago. I didn't have the crashes on NIS 2009. I did the Norton Removal tool route and a fresh install and the error still happens, as it did in the betas.

Boofo, do you mean "crash" or not?  According to Allsorts, you and he have identical problems.  He says there is no crash.  An error or informational message is not a crash.  If you do mean "crash", please explain in detail.

I want to help; but with all this speaking for each other, I am not sure any more what either of you are really experiencing.

What is a "reboot error"?  From previous posts, I got the idea that the message you got about inability to reference a memory location was a symptom of some larger "error"; now it appears that the error is the message itself, that other than the message there is no other problem.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

HI mij

It seems as though both allsorts and boofo are experiencing

" ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read ".

which one seems to think is the result of a crash and/or a memory error and one is describing as a reboot error - presumably because it happens when doing a reboot.

We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace. ~William Ewart Gladstone
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mdturner wrote:

HI mij

It seems as though both allsorts and boofo are experiencing

" ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read ".

which one seems to think is the result of a crash and/or a memory error and one is describing as a reboot error - presumably because it happens when doing a reboot.


You may be right.  Probably are. 

I need to check further, but if it's the kind of "error" I am starting to think it is, it really isn't an error at all.  I think it is the result of a machine shutdown happening faster than Norton's logging mechanism allows.  So the program is trying to make some last minute log entries but can no longer get to the logging file.  But all of this needs verification, of course.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mijcar wrote:

I need to check further, but if it's the kind of "error" I am starting to think it is, it really isn't an error at all.  I think it is the result of a machine shutdown happening faster than Norton's logging mechanism allows.  So the program is trying to make some last minute log entries but can no longer get to the logging file.  But all of this needs verification, of course.


Hi mijcar

I think you are probably not far off the mark. I've always considerd that it was a "timing" issue. The "error" happens to me on almost every shutdown/reboot of my XP system (slowish Laptop) but does not happens on my other 2 systems (fast HP Laptop and very fast Dell Desktop both running Win 7 but didn't happen when they both ran Vista).

md

We look forward to the time when the Power of Love will replace the Love of Power. Then will our world know the blessings of peace. ~William Ewart Gladstone
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

For what it's worth:

Today I received the update to 17.1.0.19 for two computers. One is running Win7 while the other is running XP. For both, the process went smoothly, including no unusual delay during reboot. Both systems appear to be functioning normally with no apparent slowdown in any functions. Happy days!

Kudos2 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mdturner wrote:

HI mij

It seems as though both allsorts and boofo are experiencing

" ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read ".

which one seems to think is the result of a crash and/or a memory error and one is describing as a reboot error - presumably because it happens when doing a reboot.



Exactly! You hit the nail right on the head.

I have been conversing with allsorts in PM about this issue as we are both having the exact same issue. This issue was reported in the 2010 beta and supposedly fixed in the final release, but not so it seems. We are both running Windows XP Pro SP3, if that helps at all.
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Just chiming in to report that the update - which was already downloaded and awaiting a reboot last evening - installed flawlessly, and all is well at this point. I've noticed no appreciable slowdown on shutdown or restart, or any other issues, here on Vista. Nice work from the team!
Windows 7 SP1 32bit - NSBU - 22.1.0.9
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mdturner wrote:

mijcar wrote:

I need to check further, but if it's the kind of "error" I am starting to think it is, it really isn't an error at all.  I think it is the result of a machine shutdown happening faster than Norton's logging mechanism allows.  So the program is trying to make some last minute log entries but can no longer get to the logging file.  But all of this needs verification, of course.


Hi mijcar

I think you are probably not far off the mark. I've always considerd that it was a "timing" issue. The "error" happens to me on almost every shutdown/reboot of my XP system (slowish Laptop) but does not happens on my other 2 systems (fast HP Laptop and very fast Dell Desktop both running Win 7 but didn't happen when they both ran Vista).

md


It could be a timing issue,  but my system is fast.  I also dont have much running on start up or shutdown.  Wonder if the error occurs in windows 7 or Vista or just XP ?

Windows XP Pro  SP3

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 1333FSB 6MB Cache Quad Core Core 64 Bit Processor
8GB DDR2 800MHz Dual Channel Ram
640GB (2 x 320GB) Serial ATA II Hard drive with 16MB Buffer
Nvidia GTX 275

Be nice to get it fixed though. I have Windows 7 Pro but havent had time to install it.

Kudos2 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

allsorts and Boofo -

If you have file / disk caching enabled, can you turn this off and see if the issue is fixed?  Some systems have this done through the Bios. 

Also, there is Caching enabled in NIS2010 as a default; can you see if turning this off helps or not?  (Settings > Computer Settings > Real Time Protection > Caching)

(Two diferent types of caching; The NIS2010 Caching is keeping a record of files that have been scanned in Real Time and could be causing the error you are reporting.)

Win10 x64; Proud graduate of GeeksToGo
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


LinYu2 wrote:

Some people have mentioned that this last patch has caused NIS2010 to render our systems noticeably slower. I agree. And it seems to me that this not only happens on booting, but also whenever you open a new application.

However, I have not seen any comment about this particular aspect from any of the several experts who give us all here the great benefit and the privilege of being around almost on a 24/7 basis, ready to provide help. Actually, I couldn't agree more with the many comments many people have made about the prompt, excellent, help they constantly provide here, making this forum a singularly outstanding one.

I, for one, would very much appreciate to read their opinion about that reported issue of real or perceived slugishness..  

As a collateral benefit... Coul anyone - please! - please, show me how to get rid of those old add-ons in Firefox 3.5.5? In my case, they are three: Norton IPS 1.0;  Norton Toolbar 3.7; and ThinkVantage Password Manager 3.01.

It's a little annoying, they are all disabled, but having been replaced by newer versions (except for the last one, which is stated to be incompatible) there must be a way of getting them removed. I just can't find how.     

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.


Sorry for taking so long.  You can force Firefox to re-recognize add-ons this way.

1.  Close Firefox

2.  Do a search in My Computer for extensions.cache, extensions.ini, extensions.rdf.  In XP, you should find these in something like this:

C:\Documents and Settings\<Your User Name>\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\qhhqmge5.default .

3.  Delete those three files.

4.  Restart Firefox.  That should clean up everything for you.

Please come back and let me know how it worked out.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Linyu,

<< As a collateral benefit... Coul anyone - please! - please, show me how to get rid of those old add-ons in Firefox 3.5.5? In my case, they are three: Norton IPS 1.0;  Norton Toolbar 3.7; and ThinkVantage Password Manager 3.01.

It's a little annoying, they are all disabled, but having been replaced by newer versions (except for the last one, which is stated to be incompatible) there must be a way of getting them removed. I just can't find how.  >>

I've no experience of Firefox but the addons I use in IE7, like SelectView for ad-blocking, all appear in remove programs and can be removed there -- with different versions of the same function I would expect to see one entry for each in Remove Programs -- this certainly happens with thinks from Microsoft like the Net Framework.

I also wonder if the actual files are still there or whether you are perhaps seeing reflections of entries in the msconfig Startup list?

That last item is a Lenovo/IBM utility -- does it show up in the START menu All programs under Lenovo or ThinkVantage? If so it may have an uninstall submenu entry?

If all else fails you might run my favorite free RevoUninstaller which I like for removing stuff since the first thing it does is scan and find the applications own uninstall module (which is what Windows Remove Programs uses) and runs that and then scans some more and lists what it finds and lets you accept or reject individual or all items.

Hugh
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


huwyngr wrote:

Linyu,

<< As a collateral benefit... Coul anyone - please! - please, show me how to get rid of those old add-ons in Firefox 3.5.5? In my case, they are three: Norton IPS 1.0;  Norton Toolbar 3.7; and ThinkVantage Password Manager 3.01.

It's a little annoying, they are all disabled, but having been replaced by newer versions (except for the last one, which is stated to be incompatible) there must be a way of getting them removed. I just can't find how.  >>

I've no experience of Firefox but the addons I use in IE7, like SelectView for ad-blocking, all appear in remove programs and can be removed there -- with different versions of the same function I would expect to see one entry for each in Remove Programs -- this certainly happens with thinks from Microsoft like the Net Framework.

I also wonder if the actual files are still there or whether you are perhaps seeing reflections of entries in the msconfig Startup list?

That last item is a Lenovo/IBM utility -- does it show up in the START menu All programs under Lenovo or ThinkVantage? If so it may have an uninstall submenu entry?

If all else fails you might run my favorite free RevoUninstaller which I like for removing stuff since the first thing it does is scan and find the applications own uninstall module (which is what Windows Remove Programs uses) and runs that and then scans some more and lists what it finds and lets you accept or reject individual or all items.


FYI, Firefox add-ons a different thing.  They aren't install in the usual sense.  When FF is off, so are the add-ons.  They are actually launched by FF each time it is launched.

The list of which, how, and what add-ons is maintained for each user and kept in a directory.  When the list is deleted, Firefox still finds the add-ons, but re-analyzes them for compatibility and then develops a new database.

Here is where Norton comes in.  Probably for security reasons, Symantec made it impossible to remove NIS's add-on's from within the Firefox user framework; so old incompatible ones such as Linyu has asked about just persist.  So we follow the alternative clean-up procedure in the paragraph above, and the problem gets fixed.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Thanks -- would that apply to ThinkVantage too? That's not a Norton applet.
Hugh
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


huwyngr wrote:
Thanks -- would that apply to ThinkVantage too? That's not a Norton applet.

It will apply to all incompatible add-on's in the add-on list.  But the only ones I have found that are totally grayed out and unremoveable from the Firefox add-on manager are the two Norton ones.  I haven't encountered ThinkVantage, though.  The main thing is (I believe), Firefox has a Whitelist of what is compatible.  If the item isn't compatible, it doesn't get re-loaded unless the user tries to force it.  Once an item becomes incompatible (usually due to an upgrade of Firefox for which the add-on was not designed), it is supposed to be user-removeable from the add-on manager.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

"Good luck to all who sail on her .... "
Hugh
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


dbrisendine wrote:

allsorts and Boofo -

If you have file / disk caching enabled, can you turn this off and see if the issue is fixed?  Some systems have this done through the Bios. 

Also, there is Caching enabled in NIS2010 as a default; can you see if turning this off helps or not?  (Settings > Computer Settings > Real Time Protection > Caching)

(Two diferent types of caching; The NIS2010 Caching is keeping a record of files that have been scanned in Real Time and could be causing the error you are reporting.)


Thank you.

i'll give it a go.

Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

mijcar and huwyngr,

Thank you for your efforts. I tried to follow mijcar's instructions and attempted to follow a similar approach in Vista as he indicated for XP. Of course, I knew I could not replicate the exact same steps, so I tried to play with the concept of the path he showed for XP and then tried to search for the file names and even the names of some of those folders. No success, whatsoever. A search for "qhhqmge5" did not produce any result either.

Then I tried the approach suggested by Huwyngr. However, those filenames are not included in the list of programs that Windows can uninstall. Neither do they show in the list produced by Revo Uninstaller.

One question for Mijcar, please: Are those names you provided "extensions.cache", "extensions.ini", "extensions.rdf" just representative of whatever files are there with those suffixes? Because I did find a folder named "Extensions" but its files were nothing of the kind. On the other hand, I encountered a few files in the "Mozilla Firefox" folder containing those suffixes... 

I guess I still need a little more coaching before I can get rid of those pests... 

Your help (as well as your great patience) is much appreciated.

Thank you both.   

Kudos3 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

The files in question on Vista would be located in

C:\Users\{your user name}\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\##########.default  (######## is a random generated name) 

Inside the #########.defalt folder is the files extensions.cache, extensions.ini and extensions.rdf .  Close FF and delete these files.  Open FF and your old addons will be gone.

Win10 x64; Proud graduate of GeeksToGo
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


LinYu2 wrote:

mijcar and huwyngr,

Thank you for your efforts. I tried to follow mijcar's instructions and attempted to follow a similar approach in Vista as he indicated for XP. Of course, I knew I could not replicate the exact same steps, so I tried to play with the concept of the path he showed for XP and then tried to search for the file names and even the names of some of those folders. No success, whatsoever. A search for "qhhqmge5" did not produce any result either.

Then I tried the approach suggested by Huwyngr. However, those filenames are not included in the list of programs that Windows can uninstall. Neither do they show in the list produced by Revo Uninstaller.

One question for Mijcar, please: Are those names you provided "extensions.cache", "extensions.ini", "extensions.rdf" just representative of whatever files are there with those suffixes? Because I did find a folder named "Extensions" but its files were nothing of the kind. On the other hand, I encountered a few files in the "Mozilla Firefox" folder containing those suffixes... 

I guess I still need a little more coaching before I can get rid of those pests... 

Your help (as well as your great patience) is much appreciated.

Thank you both.   


You must have opted to search

a) subfolders (I'm sure you did this)

b) system folders

c) hidden files and folders

In Vista, you will need admin rights.  And you can facilitate things by setting your folder options>view to include showing b) and c).  That way you can directly follow Dbris' path in the post above.

Hang in there; you've almost made it.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

A big hurrah! for you guys. You do make justice to the great reputation of this forum.

You were right. After this last good push from you guys, it was all downhill...

Good thing also that mijcar mentioned about the hidden files... In fact, I had that option selected a few days ago, when I started out with this process, and was under the assumption it was still on. For whatever reason, I decided to recheck and was surprised to find the option was set back to "Do not show..."

Meanwhile, it seems that a new add-on has been automatically installed by FF (Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant 1.1) and I'm not sure whether it is worth to keep it or to uninstall it...

The last of the three culprits, the ThinkVantage Password Manager 3.01, of course, is a different breed, and I intend to pursuit through the IBM/Lenovo forum. 

My sincere thanks and, please, keep up the great job you guys have been doing here, helping dozens of people like me. 

Best regards.

Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


LinYu2 wrote:
Meanwhile, it seems that a new add-on has been automatically installed by FF (Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant 1.1) and I'm not sure whether it is worth to keep it or to uninstall it...

This is a controversial add-on.  It was done by stealth by Microsoft.  No one was asked if they wanted it.  The first version had a huge take-over-your-computer security hole.  The current one should be okay -- at least that's the news so far.  Most of the criticism say it's an unnecessary patch that has other kinds of security issues.

If you decide to use it, you need to open its settings and make sure it doesn't make decisions without querying you first.  It gets a 2 out of 5 rating on Mozilla, with the general recommendation being to uninstall it.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos2 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mijcar wrote:

LinYu2 wrote:
Meanwhile, it seems that a new add-on has been automatically installed by FF (Microsoft .NET Framework Assistant 1.1) and I'm not sure whether it is worth to keep it or to uninstall it...

This is a controversial add-on.  It was done by stealth by Microsoft.  No one was asked if they wanted it.  The first version had a huge take-over-your-computer security hole.  The current one should be okay -- at least that's the news so far.  Most of the criticism say it's an unnecessary patch that has other kinds of security issues.

If you decide to use it, you need to open its settings and make sure it doesn't make decisions without querying you first.  It gets a 2 out of 5 rating on Mozilla, with the general recommendation being to uninstall it.


This just in.

After disabling Framework Assistant, my process viewer showed that FF's memory usage dropped from 450MB to 102MB!

And I can say that I sense the difference in speed and responsiveness.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Done it!

As I had said, I was more inclined to uninstall the .Net Framework Assistant than to keep it. Now, it's gone.

Thank you for all your help.

Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


dbrisendine wrote:

allsorts and Boofo -

If you have file / disk caching enabled, can you turn this off and see if the issue is fixed?  Some systems have this done through the Bios. 

Also, there is Caching enabled in NIS2010 as a default; can you see if turning this off helps or not?  (Settings > Computer Settings > Real Time Protection > Caching)

(Two diferent types of caching; The NIS2010 Caching is keeping a record of files that have been scanned in Real Time and could be causing the error you are reporting.)


You are a STAR !! 

I think it has actually done the trick, about 11 reboots after high intensity tests and no error ........ Yet ( crosses fingers)   i am not 100% sure if its the disabling of NIS caching or the patch for me as i did both on the same day. But so far so good.

Message Edited by allsorts on 11-16-2009 02:19 AM
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


allsorts wrote:

dbrisendine wrote:

allsorts and Boofo -

If you have file / disk caching enabled, can you turn this off and see if the issue is fixed?  Some systems have this done through the Bios. 

Also, there is Caching enabled in NIS2010 as a default; can you see if turning this off helps or not?  (Settings > Computer Settings > Real Time Protection > Caching)

(Two diferent types of caching; The NIS2010 Caching is keeping a record of files that have been scanned in Real Time and could be causing the error you are reporting.)


You are a STAR !! 

I think it has actually done the trick, about 11 reboots after high intensity tests and no error ........ Yet ( crosses fingers)   i am not 100% sure if its the disabling of NIS caching or the patch for me as i did both on the same day. But so far so good.

Message Edited by allsorts on 11-16-2009 02:19 AM

BUT...... even though the above has worked, it isnt really the solution, so i hope someone from Symantec reads this and can come up with a proper fix now the cause is known.  Im pretty certain caching causes it in NIS 2010, because disabled  there are no more..... 

"ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read"    errors at shutdown/reboot.

Thank you.

Message Edited by allsorts on 11-17-2009 05:11 PM
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


allsorts wrote:

BUT...... even though the above has worked, it isnt really the solution, so i hope someone from Symantec reads this and can come up with a proper fix now the cause is known.  Im pretty certain caching causes it in NIS 2010, because disabled  there are no more..... 

"ccSvcHst.exe - Application error The instruction at <memory location> referenced memory at <memory location>. The memory could not be read"    errors at shutdown/reboot.

Thank you.



However, the problem might be with MS and not Symantec.  NIS2010 is one of the first things to open when you boot-up -- it needs to  be in order to keep your computer safe.  And it is one of the first things to close down -- same reason.  If Windows closes too fast, then NIS won't have the opportunity to write its logs.

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

So, you're saying that NIS 2009 writes to the log different than NIS 2010 does? We didn't get this error in NIS 2009. And it showed up in the 2010 beta. Maybe they need to go back to the old way of writing to the log, huh?
~ How do I un-overwrite all my data? ~
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Different logs and different log structures between 2009 and 2010 products.
Win10 x64; Proud graduate of GeeksToGo
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


dbrisendine wrote:
Different logs and different log structures between 2009 and 2010 products.
Aha !!   So they need to revert to the better 2009 structure then. As the old adage goes.. " If it aint broke...."   Becuse it is definitely broke in 2010.  Easily fixed i should imagine though.
Kudos2 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


allsorts wrote:

dbrisendine wrote:
Different logs and different log structures between 2009 and 2010 products.
Aha !!   So they need to revert to the better 2009 structure then. As the old adage goes.. " If it aint broke...."   Becuse it is definitely broke in 2010.  Easily fixed i should imagine though.

I wouldn't think so.  How long it takes for a security program to disengage from all supervisory roles, then log its actions, then shut down can be fairly long.

I'm curious.  Usually when I try to shut down too fast (I'll explain that in a moment), I get one of those Windows messages about a program not closing and asking me whether I want to force it shut or not.  Sometimes, the program is the Norton program.  Do you get one of those, and if so, what do you do about it?

By "too fast", I mean that I had a number of apps open at one time, then suddenly I close all of them, then try to shut down.  Now, shutting down is very similar to opening up.  When we arrive at the desktop, a number of apps get themselves all prepared in the background.  We don't see it happening, but it does.  And when we try to force the issue by launching a program, either we are forced to wait or sometimes something breaks.  Shutting down is much the same.  Each app has its own shut down procedure, and as with turning on, a number of these apps have to queue up to do it.  We don't see, because its behind the scenes, but it's happening.  If you have AOL, which is a monster, that can take a long time to shutdown because it almost always makes a backup of its filing cabinet and user settings and these can be huge - a careless user can have a filing cabinet almost a gig in size.

And last in line is NIS, because it has to supervise everything that's happening.  What an opportunity for an opportunistic virus, to do its thing right after NIS has shut down all services.  So NIS must wait, and wait.  Windows on the other hand appears to have a kind of brusque "come on, guys, let's get it done" attitude.  And if a program doesn't respond quick enough, Windows tells you and suggests that you force it to shut down.

Now MS has been caught on this before, by irate users.  And twice they had to extend the wait time AFTER preliminary shutdown to allow the paging file to unload itself.  I'm guessing here, but I would not be surprised if the Norton DBs were last in the line in the paging file, therefore last to be written to during shutdown.  If that's the problem here (and I don't really know), then there might be a setting that allows the user (or Norton) to extend the time to allow for last minute business.  Or there might not be; and MS might have to come along with another update (like it has done before) to allow some extra microseconds.

And that's my suppositions for now.  

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


mijcar wrote: 

And that's my suppositions for now.  


What you call suppositions, mijcar, they may well (or may not ) be it. I do not know. However, starting with myself (and I'm sure I'm not alone) they are actually great lessons. You do have an excellent way of teaching us the less obvious of what's going on behind the scenes, during the otherwise boring operations of "Shutting down..."

Kudos!

Message Edited by LinYu2 on 11-18-2009 04:23 PM
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

This morning I installed RAM on a client's computer, raising her memory from 1 G to 3 G.  It occurred to me that here is another timing issue.  Most of what a computer puts into memory is the various programs that are in operation.  Shutting down is not an issue here as those programs can be directly terminated if they are finished with their work.  In fact, they are supposedly unloaded as they finish.

However, a lot of what happens in RAM happens to data.  For example, say you are editing a 10 MB photograph in Adobe and trying to rotate it 5 degrees.  That involves high level (for most people) trig calculations on every single pixel in the original photograph.  Every one of those 10,000,000 pixels ends up in a new place, which changes all the data for the photo.  Those operations are all being done in either RAM or the Swap File.  Movie editing is at least as bad.  Copying a movie on my machine involves a temp file that is a couple of Gigs in size; and that doesn't even mention what's happening in memory.

Now, suppose you are in the middle of something like copying a movie or editing an image and you think you are done and what to hurry out the house and shut down your computer first.  So you start the shutdown or suspend action and your computer is meanwhile trying to shift 3 gigs of data from one place to another!  If that shift is to a memory stick or external harddrive you can have a real issue.  Even to a built-in harddrive you can have a problem ... if the computer reports that so-and-so is not responding and do you want to force it closed.

[These are examples that are obvious, but who knows what other logging and re-arranging is happening behind the scenes.  I think this is an area that Microsoft, Symantec, and even the customer must raise questions about ... especially as we move into 8 G and 16 G and 100 G (?) RAM.  There must be adequate unloading time; and there must be good checks to verify if something has actually been unloaded yet.  These are just the weird thoughts that cross my mind; I don't know if they're of interest to anyone else.]

mijN360 2013, v.20.1.0.24; Win7 Pro, SP1 (32 bit), IE 9, Firefox 14, No other active securityware
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

mijcar

Excellent Statement concerning Shutdown issues  (etc  .... ) !!

 

Cheers

Computer #1 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1 IE11 NIS Version: 22.5.5.15 Malwarebytes`Anti-Malware - free (on demand) SAS - free (on demand) #2 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1 IE11 NIS Version: 22.5.5.15 Malwarebytes`Anti-Malware - free (on demand) SAS - free (on demand)
Kudos1 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Sorry for interrupting, guys ;-))

Just wanted to say that the NAV 2010 and NIS 2010 installers have been updated and now include the 17.1.0.19 patch:

www.norton.com/nav10 (NAV 2010)

www.norton.com/nis10 (NIS 2010)

Message Edited by Yaso_Kuuhl on 11-22-2009 03:04 PM
Your Norton Ladybug.
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Hi Yaso_Kuuhl

Appreciate the interruption ;-)

Q:  Will the current NRT and NBRT still be applicable.... does a product version update create the need for user to update the NRT or the NBRT.  Have been curious about this ...the interrruption ;-) is an opportunity to ask.

Thanks

bjm_

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Hi bjm_,

As far as I know, the Norton Removal Tool and the Norton Recovery Tool are applicable to the latest patched version. In fact, when the flawed patch 17.1.0.14 was freshly released, some posters, on realising that the patch disabled the Norton add-ons in Firefox, promptly ran the removal tool in order to remove their flawed NIS and revert to the previous version.

The Norton Removal Tool is available over here (bear in mind that it will remove ALL Norton products on the user's machine):

http://www.symantec.com/norton/support/kb/web_view.jsp?wv_type=public_web&ssfromlink=true&sprt_cid=1a13409b-29db-4397-a286-9dec49f8e252&seg=hho&ct=us&lg=en&docurl=20080828154508EN

The Norton Recovery Tool is available over here:

http://www.symantec.com/norton/support/globalmaps/recoverytool.jsp

Message Edited by Yaso_Kuuhl on 11-22-2009 05:05 PM
Your Norton Ladybug.
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Yaso,

Just a note of caution -- the actual timing of posting of the latest version on those sites might vary in different regions so users should check their Help / About after downloading and installing to confirm that they did get 17.1.0.19

FWIW

Hugh
Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.

Hi huwyngr

The link populates product version info....would that not be reliable info.

ie:   NIS-UPGRADE-ESD-17-1-0-19UPEN   (not shouting)

bjm_

Kudos0

Re: Just received the 17.1.0.19 patch - thoughts.


bjm_ wrote:

Hi huwyngr

The link populates product version info....would that not be reliable info.

ie:   NIS-UPGRADE-ESD-17-1-0-19UPEN   (not shouting)

bjm_


I would have said so -- but you may still find that not all localities have the same files yet. Norton has servers all around the world and different localizations too.

Since we don't know where our "readers" are located I thought it advisable to make the comment.

It's a wise thing to do anyway since we have recently had one report that someone had downloaded from a NIS link and actually got NAV!

Hugh
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