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Kudos0

Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Hi,

Weekend before last I updated my mum's Win 10 laptop from NIS to NS via NRT etc.

All looked well, Norton says it's running OK, is updating OK, and scanning OK. However, in Windows Update she keeps getting an error for updating Windows Defender Definitions and it won't go away. I was going to upload a screenshot but your forum won't let me but the error message in Windows Update is "Definition Update for Windows Defender - KB2267602 (Definition 1.213.1120.0) - Error 0x80070643".

The conclusion has to be Norton didn't quite switch off Defender during install (?).

So I'm thinking I'll run NRT again, check Defender is then running (I presume NRT switches it back on?), run Windows Update Troubleshooter, run Windows Update, and then re-download and install NS. Does that make sense or is there something better (and simpler) to try first?

I'll next get to try this at the end of the week when back over at my mum's so I'm trying to gather a list of todo's to fix this. The Windows 10 forums insist this is a Norton issue but if Norton says it's running OK, is it? i.e. is she safe to use her PC in the meantime?

Thanks,

David

Replies

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Having the same issue, after reinstalling windows 10 64bit, then norton security, it just kept updating windows defender definitions.

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Hello.I have found the following to be the best option for disabling windows defender:

1. Click start->type gpedit.msc and hit enter.
2. Navigate to the following location Local Computer Policy -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Defender
3. Once you Click Windows Defender on the Tree on the LEFT, on the right you should get all the Group Policies. Look for "Turn off Windows Defender" Double click on it and select enable.
 

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

superssjdan has posted a good procedure provided you are running Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise.

However the Group Policy Editor is not available in Windows 10 Home, so this method will not work.

I have experienced the same issue running Windows 10 Home.  When installing NSBU I allowed the installation itself to disable Windows Defender, but apparently it was not fully turned off.  I still see failed updates for Defender.

Although I have not yet tried it, I intend to uninstall NSBU and then manually turn off Windows Defender and all the features.  After that is complete I will re-install NSBU.  From the research I have done, this should take care of the problem.

Unfortunately, it may be a number of days before I accomplish this, so I won't be able to report the results anytime soon.

"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."   Edward R. Murrow
Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Interesting, all.

Phil D - do you believe NS to be "safe" in the meantime, even though there's a slightly leaky Defender lurking? And do you think my "plan" above is sensible? I'll probably try it on Friday. NRT -> reboot -> check Defender running -> WU Troubleshooter -> Check for Updates -> reboot -> Download and reinstall Norton and hope it switches Defender off properly this time OR would you switch it off yourself first before download and re-install? (sounds like you would).

I'd updated NIS to NS on 3 Windows 10 laptops using the same NRT and then download and install pattern, the only dodgy one appears to be my mum's (which is sod's law and 40 miles away). Aside from the Windows Update Defender error the only other giveaway difference seems to be if you go into Settings and Update and Security (I think it is) and scroll down to the bottom to Open Windows Defender on my two laptops it tells me it's disabled etc whereas on my mum's it opened Defender which kind of looks switched off but the point is it opened it... NS however proclaims to be fine.

The other concern is does this error'd Update stop other Windows Updates getting through or is it just untidy noise...?

Thanks,

David

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Hello David,

Yes, I believe your Norton installation to be perfectly secure. Defender has been disabled as far as realtime protection; the only issue appears to be the request for updates continues.

Based upon my Windows Update History, the failed Defender update does not seem to prevent other updates from installing.

I would not rely on Norton or any other security program to fully turn off Defender; this is a Windows issue.  Once NS is uninstalled, I would manually turn of Defender and all of the features within before attempting the NS re-install.

BTW, if you want a clean uninstall/reinstall of your Norton program, I suggest the procedure below as opposed to only using the NRT. 

  • Back up your Identity Safe if you use it.
  • Download and Save the Norton Removal Tool to your desktop.
  • Uninstall your current Norton product via Programs and Features.
  • During the uninstall, you will have the option to 'Save your Settings'.  If you have custom settings, use ID Safe or have a Norton Backup Set, I would recommend this option.
  • You may be offered the standalone Norton Toolbar as your product is being removed. Please decline this as it will be included with the full product installation.
  • Please restart when prompted.  Disregard and close any prompts to reinstall your product when the restart is complete.
  • Run the Norton Removal Tool*. (*there is a possibility that the current version of  NRT may affect Roxio products if you have them installed - please be sure you have the installation media on hand)
  • Restart after the Tool has finished and disregard any prompts to re-install now.
  • At this point, you should manually turn off Windows Defender.
  • Go to Manage Your Norton Account and follow the instructions to download and install your Norton Product. This method will use the Norton Download Manager.

  • This should provide you with the most recent version. 
  • Once the machine has settled in for a few minutes, Run Live Update a few times until no more are available.
  • Restart your computer after Live Update has completed.

Let us know how you do.

"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."   Edward R. Murrow
Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

There is also another option in option 2 on this link.http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5918-windows-defender-turn-off-windows-10-a.html

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Thank you Phil, that was very helpful.

Can I just ask why the normal uninstall first followed by NRT. Surely if you save settings via the normal uninstall NRT would blooter them anyway (otherwise it isn't removing?!). I've actually asked this one before but everyone seems to have a different take on it!

Also on the switching off of Defender is that obvious when I get there? I've read today it switches itself back on so from NRT, switching it off, I don't know how long we've got to install NS before Defender re-awakens...

It's a shame there's not another way of doing this. To me it feels like when I went from NIS to NS on my mum's laptop, Windows Update ran somewhere in between, and then NS tried to shutdown Defender but Defender kept it's foot in the door. That's what feels like has happened anyway...!

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Thanks superssjdan, I actually read that earlier too. I think that bit is already switched off though, it's just the annoying updates bit I'm trying to kill off now.

I'll try what I was thinking along with Phil_D's comments too.

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Phil_D:

superssjdan has posted a good procedure provided you are running Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise.

However the Group Policy Editor is not available in Windows 10 Home, so this method will not work.

I have experienced the same issue running Windows 10 Home.  When installing NSBU I allowed the installation itself to disable Windows Defender, but apparently it was not fully turned off.  I still see failed updates for Defender.

Although I have not yet tried it, I intend to uninstall NSBU and then manually turn off Windows Defender and all the features.  After that is complete I will re-install NSBU.  From the research I have done, this should take care of the problem.

Unfortunately, it may be a number of days before I accomplish this, so I won't be able to report the results anytime soon.

Adding this to regedit disables Defender

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows Defender\DisableAntiSpyware

Dword = 1

I never received any Defender defs updates via WU. I applied this 2-3 days after the 29th of July and everything runs ok.

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

I've had Windows Defender updates appear on Windows 10 computers with NS installed where NS has been temporarily disabled for whatever reason, such as being offline for a few weeks or having an expired license. I've also seen it happen when NS is being updated on a slow system and has not yet restarted while Windows Update is running in the background, scanning for updates.

The solution that has worked for me is to disable NS Auto-Protect, go to Windows 10 Settings to Windows Defender and click on the button to manually start the Windows Defender Service. (If the button is grayed out, try rebooting the computer and try again.) Once the Windows Defender icon appears in the system tray, you can go to Windows Update and install the previously failing Windows Defender update. (Basically, the update won't install unless Windows Defender is active.)

Once the update is installed, re-enable NS Auto-Protect. Windows Defender will be turned off and the icon will disappear after the next reboot.

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Interesting... I've got three different ways to try and solve this now... that's sounds the easiest so I'll probably give that a birl first.

Thanks all.

Cheers,

David

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Hi Bob Bailin,

Thanks for your input!

That is an interesting approach, but since you are allowing Norton to disable Windows Defender once the current update is delivered, what happens the next time Defender updates are made available?  Do you have to repeat this procedure?

I think I am leaning toward the registry edit as a more permanent solution.

"Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation."   Edward R. Murrow
Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

I think the real question is why do I have 3 computers that behave fine and NS installed properly and DID switch off Defender and 1 that it didn't. So I'm sticking with my foot in the door scenario and will probably do the NS uninstall, WU Troubleshoot, WU, NS re-install route initially and keep the registry edit and Bob's as Plan's B or C. The reason I think I should stick with this is on the ones that are OK Settings -> Updates -> Defender -> Open Defender tells me it's switched off not being used etc etc but on the slightly unwell one it actually opens Defender properly, though it kind of looks switched off but the fact it's trying to do updates for itself suggests otherwise. Am not entirely sure either Bob's or the registry edit on their own is enough to totally sort that behaviour and if the above works that's one thing I'll be checking to see if it's made any difference...

Thanks,

David

Accepted Solution
Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Folks,

1. Happy New Year.

2. This worked this morning (so far): NRT, Reboot, Start Defender, Windows Update, Stop Defender manually, re-install Norton Security, reboot, a few Live Updates, and you should notice if you go back to Defender it doesn't actually open now but pops up a wee Windows telling you something else is doing the AV etc.

Didn't take long.

Thanks,

David

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

hi David

What you have done is more or less the same as I have been doing without any problem, also suggest this as a way of installing Norton ensuring Windows Defender is turned off.

I'm pleased it went well for you.

Michael

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Thank you Michael.

My feeling is a bit of Norton's installation automation isn't working, so either it isn't picking up a return code properly when it goes to switch Defender off, or the Windows return code is wonky. Interestingly, even if you put Defender off manually first, you still get the same reporting at the same point in time from Norton where it "appears" to be switching Defender off.

Switching Defender off manually by moving all the sliders first works fine but I'm still curious how Norton switches it off because on the machines that that's worked OK on all the sliders are still ON but very greyed out.

Anyway, got there in the end and all three laptops are now very disk imaged up...!

I don't think this Windows 10 malarkey is very stable as yet. I've just had to sort a battery icon that mysteriously vanished, another apparently common "feature"...

Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

hi David

I'm not so sure that Norton actually turns off Windows Defender, I believe Windows "sees" a 3rd Party AV Program and turns off WD.

Whilst in general Windows 10 has behaved on all the computers I've upgraded including family and friends there are little nuisances with it. My main laptop has Nvidia graphics which doesn't seem to behave well together there are quite a few comments about this in various Forums and advice sites. As you say small things seem to happen without explanation from time to time.

Michael

Kudos1 Stats

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

Hello

I still think that since Microsoft is giving Windows 10 away for free, that it is sort of like a beta program and every one using it are the testers. If it was a finished product, then Edge would be more developed. Just my opinion. I'm sticking with my Win 7 pro yet.

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.3.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: Looks like Norton install hasn't quite switched off Defender?

hi Flo

I think the fact you have Window 7 rather than 8 it is wise to wait for a while. My sister had Windows 8/8.1 and is more than happy with the upgrade as mostly it works more like a proper Laptop rather than a Tablet as in appearance and in the start-up Windows 10 is more like Windows 7 than 8/8.1.

Michael

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