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Kudos0

Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 07-Oct-2022 | 2:18PM · 12 Respuestas · · Translation:

For years now I’ve been fighting an ongoing battle on multiple computers with Norton Security and the Windows Disk Optimization schedule. I prefer to let Windows do my disk optimization, and I prefer it be on a schedule I dictate. However, whenever Norton gets a software revision update, I have reason to believe it's hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule and turning it off completely. It does not (nor should it) replace it with its own schedule, as I have all Norton Automatic Tasks and the Idle Time Optimizer disabled. It simply shuts it off, and leaves my disks unoptimized until I manually go in and optimize them myself. As a result, my drives may go weeks or even months sometimes without any optimization. Additionally, looking at Norton’s Background Tasks, it shows that the Disk Optimizer has “Never” been ran, so why does it continue to hijack and disable my Windows Disk Optimization schedule? It concerns me that any Norton product would do this, whether deliberately, or by some type of program glitch.

And of course, I’ve uninstalled and reinstalled Norton (with and without the NRnR tool) countless times trying to resolve this. Is there any way to permanently prevent this from happening?

Thanks!

Respuestas

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 08-Oct-2022 | 8:28AM · Edited: 08-Oct-2022 | 8:29AM · Enlace permanente

Shott:

... I prefer to let Windows do my disk optimization, and I prefer it be on a schedule I dictate. However, whenever Norton gets a software revision update, I have reason to believe it's hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule and turning it off completely. ..I have all Norton Automatic Tasks and the Idle Time Optimizer disabled. It simply shuts it off, and leaves my disks unoptimized until I manually go in and optimize them myself. As a result, my drives may go weeks or even months sometimes without any optimization. ...

Hi Schott:

What is your Windows operating system [if Win 10 or Win 11 please include the edition (Home, Pro, etc.), version and OS build number shown at Settings | System | About | Windows Specifications], and do you have a SATA HDD or SSD?  What is the total size of your drive(s) and how much free disk space does it have? Is System Restore (normally disabled by default on Win 10 and Win 11 computers) enabled on your system?

Disk optimization (Start | Widows Administrative Tools | Defragment and Optimize Drives) is handled differently by Windows depending on your Windows OS, the type of hard drive in your system, and whether System Restore is enabled or disabled.  For example, the Scheduled Task section of the MS support article defrag notes that "Changing the frequency of the scheduled task does not affect the once per month cadence for the SSDs" and that "If you skip analysis, you won't see an updated Last run time in the Optimize Drives app. Because of that, the Last run time can be up to a month old".

Depending on your OS, you might also have an Automatic Maintenance task (Control Panel | System and Security | Security and Maintenance | Maintenance | Automatic Maintenance) that runs a variety of daily tasks in the background, including disk optimization.

I don't know all the specifics of how the defragmentation and the TRIM/retrim of my SSD drive is handled by the Disk Optimizer app versus the daily Automatic Maintenance tasks, but the April 2017 PC World article When to Defrag a Hard Drive, TRIM an SSD and Perform Other Storage Tasks, Or Not explains the difference between a defrag and TRIM.  You might also find some useful information in the July 2017 How-To Geek article Don’t Waste Time Optimizing Your SSD, Windows Knows What Its Doing and the Sept 2020 Windows Latest article Windows 10 Update Finally Fixes Annoying SSD Drive Issue.  That Windows Latest article states in part that:

"... Typically, SSD is defragged once a month by default if you’ve Volume Shadow Copy feature enabled. Volume Shadow Copy is enabled when you manually turn on Windows System Restore, which is a feature that allows you to roll back to a previous version of the OS....Windows also use the Automatic Maintenance feature to automate the defragmentation or optimization process...."

I don't use Norton 360 as my antivirus on my Win 10 Pro v21H2 laptop, and here's what Disk Optimizer (with default settings) and Automatic Maintenance report today (08-Oct-2022) for my SSD.  Note that I have manually enabled System Restore as instructed in the Windows Central article How to Use System Restore on Windows 10, so I would expect a monthly defrag (a modified version of the "traditional" defragmentation task that runs on SATA HDDs) to run on my SSD if required, along with the occasional TRIM/retrim optimization.


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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 256 GB Toshiba KBG40ZNS256G NVMe SSD * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v21H2 build 19044.2006 * Firefox v105.0.3 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.2207.7-1.1.19600.3 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.5.14.210-1.0.1772 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.6979

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 08-Oct-2022 | 10:29AM · Enlace permanente

Thanks lmacri.

This is good information if I needed a technical explanation and common caveats of how Defragment and Optimize works. I appreciate your help, but it does not address my question very well. I don’t need to know how it works, how to set it up, or whether or not there are other Windows tasks that utilize it. I’m simply looking for an explanation of why Norton is physically turning off my Disk Optimization schedule after software revision updates.

BTW, my OS is Windows 10 (19044.1889), but since this has been happening for several years now, across multiple hardware platforms and OS revisions, I don’t believe it’s an OS dependent issue. As you can see in the pics, my OS and Storage drives are solid state, and my Backup drive (USB external) is a standard hard disk drive.

Before a Norton software update, this is what my Windows Disk Optimization applet normally looks like:

After a Norton software update, this is what my Windows Disk Optimization applet looks like:

Does anyone know of a fix for this? Why are Norton updates having this affect on my Windows Disk Optimization schedule?

Thanks again!

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 09-Oct-2022 | 5:55AM · Enlace permanente

Hi Schott:

Sorry, then you'll have to wait for one of the Norton 360 users to report back and see if they've observed similar behaviour.  I've heard of issues where disabling the Norton settings at Administrative Settings Idle | Time Optimizer and/or Task Scheduling | Automatic Tasks | Disk Optimization didn't actually stop Norton from optimizing the drives, so perhaps the settings in your GUI are out-of-sync with your Norton configuration file and/or a registry entry.  If that were the case, however, I would expect your Windows scheduled optimizations to be turned OFF at every re-boot, not just when Norton product updates are delivered.

While you're waiting for one of the Norton 360 users to jump in and report if they've ever noticed this glitch it would be helpful if you answered the following:

What is the name of your Norton product (e.g., Norton 360 Standard/Deluxe/Premium) and have you received the current v22.22.9.11 update released 05-Oct-2022?

Do you know why your Windows OS hasn't been updated since the August 2022 Patch Tuesday updates (i.e., why your OS build is still on 19044.1889)?

Is the Fast Startup power option (also known as hybrid boot-up / hybrid shutdown) disabled in your Windows settings?  Fast Startup is enabled by default in Windows 10 but it can interfere with the loading of services and drivers of third-party software at boot-up (especially antivirus and anti-malware programs that load components deep in the Windows kernel) and cause unexpected problems. Many users in this forum have found that disabling Fast Startup can fix a variety of odd glitches in Norton.  Microsoft has also acknowledged that Fast Startup can even interfere with Windows Update – see the MS support article Updates May Not Be Installed With Fast Startup in Windows 10. If you need to disable Fast Startup see Option # 1 of Brink's TenForums tutorial How to Turn On or Off Fast Startup in Windows 10.

Have you ever tried a clean reinstall of Norton by running the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool in advanced "Remove Only" mode as instructed in the support article Download and Run the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool for Windows to clean up remnants of older Norton installations before reinstalling?  Note the warning in that support article if you have other Norton products like Norton Family installed.

If you run System File Checker (sfc /scannow) and DISM commands like Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth as instructed in the ghacks.net article Use DISM to Fix Issues SFC Can't do any of those scans find an issue with your current Windows system files?

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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 256 GB Toshiba KBG40ZNS256G NVMe SSD * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v21H2 build 19044.2006 * Firefox v105.0.3 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.2207.7-1.1.19600.3 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.5.14.210-1.0.1772 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.6979

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 09-Oct-2022 | 8:35AM · Enlace permanente

All I can say is that the scheduled optimisation is also turned off on my system, which I did not manually change. Your images show the Current Status column shows zero days since retrim. Yesterday mine showed 4 days since retrim, also with scheduled optimisation turned off. Checking again this morning it now shows zero days since retrim.

I'm only suggesting this as my searches cannot find a definitive answer. It sounds like the Scheduled Optimisation just overrides Windows default schedule in case you want more control over the schedule. So unless you turn off Windows optimisation, it will still run in the background on its schedule.

Kudos1 Estadisticas

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 13-Oct-2022 | 1:34PM · Enlace permanente

Hi Shott,

Thank you for this post.  Norton regularly disables the Windows Disk Optimization switching it from On to Off when there is a product update.  I have the exact same symptom albeit with a few different variables.  In my case, I am using an HDD.  That eliminates a host of SSD and flash-based re-trim/optimization concerns.  Fast Boot is not on.  Automatic Maintenance (from Windows) is on/running.  Hopefully posting additional details from another user elicits a response/resolution from support.  If not, I will create my own ticket and come back here posting updates and or whatever resolution support provides.

My System:
Win 10 - 21H2 OS Build 19044.1889
N360 - 22.22.9.11
Storage - HDD

Your post is spot on for the problem described.  For years on Windows 10 just about every update from the Norton product disables my preferred disk optimization schedule managed by Windows: automatic, all drives and weekly.  I must manually turn it on just about every 2-3 weeks or... if/when there is another product update pushed out; not just a Virus Definition update.  The presumption is that the Norton update is somehow breaking this functionality based on the presentation of symptoms and timing with the update.  I am eager to see this resolved as it is rather annoying.

Here is a typical scenario demonstrating how this is broken regularly for my rig.  The Windows Task Schedule as per Microsoft > Windows > Defrag > ScheduleDefrag > History shows the last successful Windows-managed automatic weekly optimization schedule ran at 10/5/2022 8:15:43 PM as per, “Task Scheduler successfully finished "{omitted}" instance of the "\Microsoft\Windows\Defrag\ScheduledDefrag" task for user "NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM".”


The Disk Optimization settings were enabled to run automatically.


The system was used off/on as normal in the interim.  The system power settings were (and still are) set to automatically suspend at a given interval.  The system suspended and then resumed from sleep at 10/10/2022 10:34:16 AM as per the Windows Event Log entry for, “Wake from sleep detected”.


The system was used for about 10-15 minutes when a Norton LiveUpdate event was triggered.  This was related to Norton Security 22.22.9.11 for Windows is now available!  The Norton 360 product > Device Security > History > Live Update showed there was a correlating event as per 10/10/2022 10:45:51 AM where several updates were applied as per: “10/10/2022 10:45:51 AM,Info,LiveUpdate Session,Completed,No Action Required,Interactive,Norton LiveUpdate has successfully completed. Your Norton product now has the latest updates.,10/10/2022 10:45:51 AM,5,Success (9.39KB),,Success (713.35KB),Yes,Info,Success (23.17KB),Success (6.40KB),,,,,Success (184.62MB),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,”.  This brought the product version up to 22.22.9.11 on my system.

The Windows Application Event logs correspond showing multiple events around this time that is typical after you hit the “Apply” button when prompted by a program update (not just a Virus Definition update).  This started around 10/10/2022 10:53:55 AM as per the corresponding Windows Event entry for, “The shell stopped unexpectedly and explorer.exe was restarted.”

Norton began shutting itself down to update two seconds later at 10/10/2022 10:53:57 AM as per, “The 'NortonSecurity' service is stopping” noted in the Windows Application Event logs.  The next entry was at 10/10/2022 10:54:03 AM as per, “The 'NortonSecurity' service has stopped”.  Another entry occurs at 10/10/2022 10:54:13 AM as per, “The 'NortonSecurity' service has started”.  The 10:54:13 AM entry is about to become very important as per the Task Schedule History logs.

Several more Norton events are logged here until finally it finishes at 10/10/2022 10:54:57 AM as per, “Updated Norton 360 status successfully to SECURITY_PRODUCT_STATE_ON”.

Inspecting the Task Scheduler history for ScheduleDefrag shows this little gem: “10/10/2022 10:54:13 AM as per, “User "System"  disabled Task Scheduler task "\Microsoft\Windows\Defrag\ScheduledDefrag"”.
Reinspecting Disk Optimization today 10/13/2022 shows that it is turned off again.
There you have it.  Norton regularly disables the Windows Disk Optimization switching it from On to Off when there is a product update.
The workaround is to manually enable it after a Norton product update.
Regards,
Spun

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 13-Oct-2022 | 3:09PM · Enlace permanente

Spun C:
... Norton regularly disables the Windows Disk Optimization switching it from On to Off when there is a product update.  I have the exact same symptom albeit with a few different variables.  In my case, I am using an HDD.  That eliminates a host of SSD and flash-based re-trim/optimization concerns.  Fast Boot is not on.  Automatic Maintenance (from Windows) is on/running...

Hi Spun C:

Thanks for that additional information.

Could you let us know if the following two settings that control disk optimization are enable or disabled in your Norton settings ...

  • Administrative Settings | Idle Time Optimizer
  • Task Scheduling | Automatic Tasks | Disk Optimization

... and when you view the status of your Norton background tasks (Administrative Settings | Background Tasks | Configure) what are the Last Run Dates for both these Optimizer tasks? It's been a few years since I used Norton (and for some reason I can no longer see the images Shott inserted in their original post) so someone using Norton 360 will have to tell you if the Idle Time Optimizer now goes under a different name (e.g., Insight Optimizer) in the Background Tasks window.
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Dell Inspiron 5584 * 256 GB Toshiba KBG40ZNS256G NVMe SSD * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v21H2 build 19044.2006 * Firefox v105.0.3 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.2207.7-1.1.19700.3 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.5.15.215-1.0.1784 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.6979

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 13-Oct-2022 | 7:30PM · Enlace permanente

Excellent research Spun!

That sounds exactly like what’s happening over here. I haven’t dug into it as deep as you did, but I’m glad to know there are others experiencing the same issue. I probably could have been more thorough as well, but was hoping a quick fix may be available. This forum has been pretty good at finding answers for all of us.

As for me, I’ve followed most of the suggestions posted so far, plus a few more, most of them before my original post. Everything (with the exception of a few Windows updates, which I do manually as I see fit) is up to date and otherwise functioning well. Fast Startup has never been enabled, and I’ve never believed this was an issue with any particular revision of Norton Security or Windows 10. Also (to answer lmacri’s question), the Norton Idle Time Optimizer and Automatic Tasks have been disabled throughout all of this. This has been an ongoing problem for several years now, spanning countless Norton Security and Windows 10 revisions, as well as hardware platforms.

Thanks again for doing the “homework” Spun. As long as this problem has been going on, I’m not sure if I should expect a solution or not. In the meantime, I’ll continue with what you advised, and just manually turn my Windows Disk Optimization back on after Norton software updates. It would sure be nice if Norton would simply leave our preferred settings alone, or at least offer us a work-around for this deviant behavior. I’m curious what we’ll hear from support.

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 14-Oct-2022 | 11:42AM · Edited: 14-Oct-2022 | 12:04PM · Enlace permanente

(redacted)

Kudos1 Estadisticas

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 14-Oct-2022 | 11:56AM · Enlace permanente

Hi Imacri,

Thank you for helping us out.  Here are the requested settings.  All Norton 360-managed tasks related to Idle Time and Disk (Optimization) are (and were) disabled.  Good catch on the the "Insight Optimizer" nomenclature.

I had previously tried troubleshooting this issue (again) about one month ago in early September by removing the product via Apps and Features, rebooting, re-establishing the desired Windows-side settings and then reinstalling the Norton product.  Norton kicked off an automatic disk optimization before I could catch it and disable the settings again.  I cancelled the Norton Disk Optimizer on Sept. 06, 2022.  This is supported in the images shared.  After that, I made sure to disable the features noted in the Norton product post installation again.

Norton does not seem to bastardize its’ own optimization settings when there is a product update.  It left them in their disabled state after the 22.22.9.11 update was pushed out.  I am curious why the settings Norton 360 itself uses to manage and enforce Disk Optimization seem to be left in whatever state they are in (off in my case) only to have the Windows-side settings turned off repeatedly.

We know that Norton is somehow evoking control over the setting albeit in a unique way.  You would think that if a user chose to have Norton manage the settings, then in that unique case, it should over-ride the Windows-side settings managing the Disk Optimizer to avoid doubling-up on this task.  For example, if a user accidentally enables (or disables) one of the optimization settings, then the other setting should align either way.  Yet, it seems to care not and instead simply turn it off externally on each core product update ignoring what the user has set in the Norton client itself and on the Windows side.

My gut feeling is that is where we have an issue.  The product is not honoring its' own internal settings for whether the user has decided to go with regarding Norton's optimization or not, and instead, it arbitrarily turns off the user's "on" setting externally every time.  This makes no sense from a design perspective.  It is not following its own internal settings pre, during or post a product updates.

If you happen to be a user that does not want Norton managing your Disk Optimizer, then you would proceed as we have, disabling the related settings within the product and then adjusting them from the Windows side temporarily.  Doing so effectively renders all Disk Optimization disabled system wide when the next product update occurs.  This is of course, unless you check and turn it on again after a product update.  This effectively means the very product Norton pushes out for optimization is broken in a way that leaves the customer base with an unreliable client.  There are three scenarios.  Some customers will unknowingly have Norton 360 and Windows both managing Disk Optimization doubling-up on the task.  Another subset will have only Norton 360 doing it as long as they leave the Windows settings alone.  A third set of customers will have no reliable optimization (our current case within this forum).

Cheers,
Spun

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 14-Oct-2022 | 12:02PM · Edited: 14-Oct-2022 | 12:05PM · Enlace permanente

Hi Shott,

Agreed on all points.  I can confirm the settings noted are the same for me (along with the sentiment).

To all:

I apologize for the duplicate post on my initial reply to Imacri.  I have requested a moderator delete my duplicate post.  The longer reply to Imacri with several screen shots and text is posted and correct.

Sorry for the trouble.

-Spun

Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 14-Oct-2022 | 9:08PM · Enlace permanente

Spun C:
...I am curious why the settings Norton 360 itself uses to manage and enforce Disk Optimization seem to be left in whatever state they are in (off in my case) only to have the Windows-side settings turned off repeatedly...My gut feeling is that is where we have an issue.  The product is not honoring its' own internal settings for whether the user has decided to go with regarding Norton's optimization or not, and instead, it arbitrarily turns off the user's "on" setting externally every time.  This makes no sense from a design perspective.  It is not following its own internal settings pre, during or post a product updates...

Hi Spun C:

I'm afraid I won't be of much help to you.  Until a few years ago I used Norton Security v22.15.x (the legacy version for Win XP and Vista) on a Vista SP2 machine that had a HDD SATA hard drive so the behaviour I saw might be quite different that what you're seeing now with Norton 360 on a Win 10 or Win 11 machine.  I did not want Norton defragging my hard drive so I always had both Administrative Settings | Idle Time Optimizer and Task Scheduling | Automatic Tasks | Disk Optimization turned OFF in Norton and just let Windows handle my disk defrags. I don't recall an update to one of these Norton Security v22.15.x legacy products ever changing the settings of my scheduled Windows defrags, but I might be wrong about that.

Has anyone tried contacting NortonLifeLock Customer Support via a Live Chat at https://www.norton.com/chat to see if they're aware of this glitch?  I suspect they'll simply tell you to perform a clean reinstall of Norton by running the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) tool in advanced "Remove Only" mode as described in the support article Download and Run the Norton Remove and Reinstall Tool for Windows but I'm guessing that won't change the behaviour you're seeing.  If you're lucky, though, they might escalate your chat to second tier Tech Support.
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Kudos0

Re: Norton Security hijacking my Windows Disk Optimization schedule

al corriente: 15-Oct-2022 | 6:08AM · Enlace permanente

Spun C:
...I am curious why the settings Norton 360 itself uses to manage and enforce Disk Optimization seem to be left in whatever state they are in (off in my case) only to have the Windows-side settings turned off repeatedly...My gut feeling is that is where we have an issue.  The product is not honoring its' own internal settings for whether the user has decided to go with regarding Norton's optimization or not, and instead, it arbitrarily turns off the user's "on" setting externally every time.  This makes no sense from a design perspective.  It is not following its own internal settings pre, during or post a product updates...

Below is just a diagnostic suggestion to nail down how Norton is affecting the Windows Scheduled Optimisation setting. I know Norton should not be affecting the Windows setting, but just trying to help diagnose exactly what is happening. The more information the developers have the quicker a fix can be made.

Another thought here is that because you are turning off the optimisation in the Norton product, it also turns off the Windows Setting. Make sure Windows and Norton settings are both on. Then do a reinstall of Norton to see if the installation turns off the Windows setting again. Or if the reinstall leaves both settings ON, turn off the Norton setting again to see if the Windows setting gets turned off.

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