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Kudos3 Estatísticas

LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 13-dez-2014 | 6:41PM · 440 Respostas · · Translation:

I've had Norton and Truecrypt together for about a week now and they worked together fine, they both stayed out of each others way.. Yesterday, that changed. No, it might of even started the day before yesterday. Allow me to start there since it might help find out the issue. So, on that day, I downloaded a file, Norton flagged it(WS.Reputation.1) and removed it, I disabled Norton and downloaded it again thinking Norton made a mistake, ran it on VirusTotal.com, and 7 anti-virus programs detected danger(most of them called it a Trojan).and the file stopped being read after  the 7th positive detection. So I deleted it, ran Norton immediately, downloaded and ran Malwarebytes and they both showed no Trogan on the computer. My computer started showing symptoms of a Trojan(slowing down, not being slow to load websites, etc) this was while Norton was doing a full system scan. After the scan came up clean, file thumbnails soon started going blank(they had a blank page icon) and some even vanished all together, like Recycle Bins. Even my Chrome browser stopped loading, it wouldn't even load the settings page. So, I panicked, restarted the system, logged back on and guess what? Norton was gone. It failed to start and wouldn't respond to my request to run. It was showing up on Task manager's list of programs running but not on the list of active programs. 8 or so minutes later, just as I am about to restart, Norton suddenly ran an autofix. Then I restarted.again and everything was back to normal.

Forward to a day later, I try and mount a PNP Truecrypt folder to view a few documents before I leave overseas, and just as I opened the mounted folder and started to scroll, I got a BSOD. The error said "PNP_DETECTED_FATAL_ERROR." I thought it was just a weird mistake, so I logged on, and tried again...same error. I then fitted with the settings and tried to get my files out of that Mount but everytime I even tried to move a file an inch, I got the BSOD. I couldn't open the folder after mounting because I'd get a BSOD. I got 8 of them before I gave up and ran a BSOD viewer. They all showed that the driver that caused it was either SRTSP64.SYS or BHDrvx64.sys and it originates in ntoskrnl.exe. The BSOD's also shared the same bug check code of 0x000000ca and parameter 1 of 00000000`00000002. 

I elected to then uninstall Norton, and remove the files. It worked, I got no BSOD. So I assumed the issue was over and mounted them again then installed Norton back.

Forward to today, I move the Mount to an old external(formally internal) HDD I found. I encrypted some space on that HDD and attempted to add my files over there to the external drive so I could bring them with me overseas. The moment the files touched that HDD, BSOD! She came back. Same error, same driver, same location. What do I have to do to get Norton to get along with Truecrypt short of uninstalling Norton for a refund? I don't want to do that since I really like Norton but this is getting annoying and I don't want my brand new computer to be damaged by repeated BSOD's. 

This desktop computer is only 1.5  weeks out the box, so it can't be the computer.

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Kudos7 Estatísticas

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 08-abr-2015 | 4:58AM · Link permanente

Hello,

I can see some of you have already received the patch and so far the feedback is positive. For more details, you can read the official announcement here.

I'm wanted to thank you all on behalf of the Norton team for your patience while we were working on this patch. All your feedback was welcomed and will certainly be taken into consideration while we continue to focus on the constant improvement of our services and products.

Finally, I wanted to extend a special thank you to those users who were supportive and understanding of my own interventions here. It certainly is very rewarding to interact with customers who are able to keep up a good and professional relationship with their points of contact regardless of the issues that they are facing.

Have a great day!

View Accepted Solution in Context

Respostas

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 09-mar-2015 | 3:35AM · Link permanente

AriGLD is correct (and thanks for providing the informative web links), the FREAK vulnerability affects SSL/TLS traffic only. SSL using both symmetric and asymmetric cryptography to secure a link between entities.

An SSL/TLS session is setup when the client’s web browser generates the session key and encrypts it with the server’s public key(the entity the client’s web browser wishes to communicate securely with). Since a public key is used, this is asymmetric encryption. This is to prevent the key being sent in clear text. The encrypted key is sent to the server and the client and server communicate securely back and forth using this symmetric key (which the server decrypts by using its private key). The blog post that AriGLD linked to contains a diagram which illustrates this really well.

While some of the concepts are shared between SSL/TLS and the hard disk/file encryption programs under discussion in this thread, this vulnerability is not related to this incompatibility with Norton.

I hope this helps. Thanks.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 09-mar-2015 | 4:40AM · Link permanente

Yup, as two posters above already have said, the FREAK bug should not have anything to do with what Norton does. FREAK relates to MIM attacks (i.e. security of information while in transit "outside" the system), as opposed to within-system security.

And just to put it out there, if FREAK did relate to something Norton should take care of (which it doesn't), wouldn't it be kind of umm.. "poor" if the security guard trying to catch the thief kind of blows up the compound as a "safety measure"?

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 10-mar-2015 | 9:06PM · Link permanente

Freak had NOTHING to do with this Norton Fault.

Apparently ANY program that installs a ram disk, cloud disk, encrypted disk will call up a code failure in Norton Security, and cause a BSOD and computer reboot.  This problem has NOT BEEN REPAIRED.  Status of a repair is unknown.   We and Norton know the exact cause of the failure, the NS code Patch of 12/11/2014. Previous to this patch apparently all programs worked well, according to other members on this thread. 

In three days it will be 90 days since Norton was notified of this code bug, any yet we are without a fix to it.  I no longer believe anyone at Norton is really working on this... more likely they are all working on Windows 10 Norton software... which alas if I ran the company I'd tell all my employees to concentrate on.

  90 days to fix a known destructive code fault is far longer than it should have taken, that is IF anyone at Norton was working on this in a serious manner.   yes Testing takes time.  But not 90 days.  Yes the patch was not correctly tested, and was released to everyone with the destructive code inside it.  And yes we want a future patch correctly tested so it causes no destructive damage to our computers or work, or anyone else's. But I'd like to know there is a team of Norton programers actually working on a fix for this specific Norton code  fault.

Please... can any direct EMPOYEE of Norton assure us that there will be a fix soon  ????? 

30 more days?  90 more days??   Please... talk to us.... update us on the status of a fix.

Thanks to  Liliana at Norton, a work-around by returning to an old Norton product has been provided, but this is NOT A FIX.  Bad destructive code needs to be repaired ASAP... leaving it in the current software is just very very bad business and really bad programming.

regards to all...

Michael Gore

San Francisco

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 10-mar-2015 | 10:30PM · Link permanente

Pathetic after almost 4 months.. what a load of crap.. I'm done with this thread, and with Norton.  As soon as our office is out of our busy season I'm going to switch our home & office networks to different software.  Most likely Bit Defender.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 11-mar-2015 | 1:11AM · Link permanente

Have the same problem. Try to solve it

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 11-mar-2015 | 8:02AM · Link permanente

Anniversary Day!   Its  been 3 months since NS released its destructive patch of Dec 11, 2014. I remember it well!

Today Goreski commented:

 I no longer believe anyone at Norton is really working on this... more likely they are all working on Windows 10 Norton software... 

I suspect you may be correct!  I believe that we victims of that patch are just along for a ride until the next patch and all that it encompasses is ready. So in the meantime "We're working on it......" is all we will get.

On Jan 23,2015 liliana_gaspar wrote;

There is indeed an issue that we have identified and fixed already and there will be a patch released soon for this. This patch however integrates other changes and improvements, as most do, but we are working to have it ready for release as quickly as possible. I'm unable to give you a specific date according to our usual policies, so we don't give you incorrect expectations in the rare case we need to extend the deadline for any reason, but we do estimate that if everything goes well the update will be coming out soon.

Just as an aside, I would like to make a comment on "soon". I am an old geezer and it seems to me the word soon has changed meaning over the years. Decades ago when someone said soon it meant "not today,not tomorrow but soon." It was a word that lived next door to "imminent". Now in these days of instant communications, it has become a place holder and seems to have moved in next door to "indefinite".   Just saying!

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 11-mar-2015 | 10:31AM · Link permanente

rebel49:

...Just as an aside, I would like to make a comment on "soon". I am an old geezer and it seems to me the word soon has changed meaning over the years. Decades ago when someone said soon it meant "not today,not tomorrow but soon." It was a word that lived next door to "imminent". Now in these days of instant communications, it has become a place holder and seems to have moved in next door to "indefinite".   Just saying!

Observation...

Well put - I view these alterations as unfortunate degenerations rather than expansions of the lexicon.  They seem to ofttimes be initially brought about by simple misguided misuses.

Sometimes however, these are intentional alterations and when misapplied repeatedly they eventually become new socially allowed conventions, at which point the original meaning is thus ever-forward maligned.

I prefer to refer to such occurrences as the politicizing of the lexicon...

Kind regards,
John

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 11-mar-2015 | 10:35AM · Link permanente

Here is some interesting news about Symantec.... which is I think relevant to what may be going on... at least why no fix has occurred yet.

http://marketrealist.com/2014/12/symantec-split-two-companies/

First off Symantec is splitting itself into two separate companies, Security Products, and Storage and such.  This break up requires a heck of a lot of work by management, and will affect many employees and project managers.

Secondly Symantec has laid off about 10 % of it's workforce, announced in November 2014, and apparently carried out over the last few months.  That's about 2,000 employees that are gone... thus it is possible that our problem has gotten lost in the shuffle, or those who might have been working on it have been moved to other projects or laid off.  Lots of work assignments must have been changed as employees were laid off or moved to other areas, and perhaps this is one of the causes of delay in getting a fix of the bad code.  I'm just guessing... I do not know the details.

Finally, with Windows 10 just around the corner, and Symantec needing a big push to get their Anti-Virus and Security Programs tested and set for Windows 10.....  oh well... priorities....

So perhaps some, or all the above is the partial cause of the delay.  Not excusable to say the least, but perhaps better understood with the above knowledge.   Sill... more 90 days to fix destructive code is inexcusable...

regards to all...

Michael Gore

San Francisco

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 12:04AM · Link permanente

Once they broke, its their responsiblity to fix it ASAP. The user community is never going to tolerate lame excuses.
How can you ignore the instability of your product on current environment and work for a future environment?
I feel Norton management team is flying behind something, not user satisfaction anyway.
What is that? Money? Cheap marketing statistics? What else...?
Figures go down if you dont play well and when you pay no attention to your users troubles.
Most people who once threw away Norton products hate to comeback, promote the bad image...

Norton/Symantec, Do you accept the fact that lot of people think Norton products are resource hungry, even now?
Do you know people who seek help from M$ community is advised to ditch Norton product and use their product in majority of cases?
If this goes on, I can foresee where it will end up soon.
regards, CV | There is no ONE TOUCH KEY to security . Be alert and vigilant. . | Always have a Backup Plan!
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 10:37AM · Link permanente

I am still on NIS 2014 and I am very disappointed in Symantec with this new NS product.

I have Windows Office 2010 so I can not use NS in its broken state.

NS was released in Sept 2014 and here it is 6 Months later and still major problems.

I was given a free key for NSwBU for doing beta testing on Sept 30 and it has to be activated within 1 year or I loose it.

When the next update to NS comes out with fixes for their problems, I will still have to wait a few Months and check this forum to see if it is suitable to use.

The old saying, "you get what you pay for" My FREE license is worth ZERO with this new product.

Come On Man! Get this product fixed!

Jim

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 11:53AM · Link permanente

Hello PhoneMan

Have you opened up a thread about Office 2010 problem? Sorry, but I don't want to get this thread off topic of encryption and virtual drives. Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit 2004 N 360 22.20.5.39 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 12:59PM · Link permanente

floplot:

Hello PhoneMan

Have you opened up a thread about Office 2010 problem? Sorry, but I don't want to get this thread off topic of encryption and virtual drives. Thanks.

This the SAME problem. Office 2010 open a Virtual Drive when you start it (or any of its applications). The mere clicking on the icon to start any produces the BSOD. Read all the way back in this thread (Posted: 29-Dec-2014 | 10:45AM) for instance.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 1:37PM · Link permanente

As Ispalten has stated there is another thread on here that shows problems with Office 2010.

I also use Virtual drives for other things and I will not put my system in jeopardy until this problem is solved.

There is also another thread dealing with Identity Safe problems and NS so there is more than one problem with NS products.

NS has been buggy since Beta and Norton has done a bad job of cleaning up NS. They fixed some problems and caused others. If they can't fix these problems in a timely manner how can we be sure it is protecting our system from the bad guys.

My confidence level in Norton has dropped. If they can't release a good product in a timely manner it may be time to move on.

Jim

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 4:16PM · Link permanente

Hello

I guess Office 2013 is different in that respect. Sorry about all the problems.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit 2004 N 360 22.20.5.39 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 12-mar-2015 | 6:51PM · Link permanente

I also use Virtual drives for other things and I will not put my system in jeopardy until this problem is solved.

I know a lot of techies on line who use Virtual Drives to run the test versions of Windows 8 and 10 ..... rather than as I do use a multiboot system.  Not sure that VMs are any more secure -- not an area I know anything about.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 13-mar-2015 | 9:00AM · Link permanente

Today I forgot to disable Autoprotect before I mounted my Truecrypt drive (something that I has been doing for almost 3 months now) and boom! got the BSOD again.

This waiting is very frustrating so I'm considering moving to a different security product and ask for a refund.

This bug is crashing computers everywhere which has caused loss of data to some people.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 14-mar-2015 | 1:41PM · Link permanente

Question:

Does Symantec really read this Posts.

3 months are toooooooo much for solving this Problem.

Unless I don't want to use a russian security program, I don't want to wait any longer for using Boxcryptor.

Symnatec: Do your Thing - or tell us, you're not able to.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 15-mar-2015 | 5:16AM · Link permanente

Well I have had enough of waiting. This problem was first logged 14-Dec-14 and I have been suffering the encrypted/virtual disk problem since then, even though I only realised it was the cause of my problem with the SafeHouse disk driver on 3-Feb-15 (no thanks to Norton support). A temporary fix by downgrading to an "out-of-date" product is not a fix.

It is now over three months with no sign of a solution. So this morning I removed Norton completely and installed a competing but clearly better product. And lo and behold my problem with the BSOD has gone away.

The only reason I had Norton on the home PCs was because it was pre-installed as a trial. The only reason I "upgraded" to Norton Security from Norton Internet Security was because of Symantic's rip-off renewal policy that meant it was significantly cheaper to buy a replacement "new version" from Amazon than renew the existing product. The lack of a fix for the BSOD problem is not only an indication of the disdain with which Symantic appears to view its customers but also a worry that other "issues" or security holes may also exist that are still waiting a fix. Or not, but who knows? It seems that Symantic views adverse media publicity as something it can ignore too.

I long ago experienced a similar technical issue with McAfee that dragged on and on (also pre-installed on a bought PC). I resolved never again to have it on a hard disk and made sure all my clients and colleagues knew why I would never give it house room. I regret to say that Norton has now joined this exclusive club. I will never recommend it, never buy it again and do my best to dissuade clients, friends and colleagues from using it.

It is not worth the effort of trying to obtain a refund for the purchase so I will chalk this up to experience.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 16-mar-2015 | 6:11AM · Link permanente

Well, enough is enough... 4 months and counting - I guess, the important thing is that I've already paid for the annual sub, right?..

I've just ordered a product from a competitor (the fact that it is FAR makes it even sweeter). Sorry guys, but you've just lost a client.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 16-mar-2015 | 10:30PM · Link permanente

The company I worked for dropped Norton products last week and moved to Kaspersky’s Internet Security. I did the same on my personal computer. 4 months and no solution? How is that even remotely acceptable.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 17-mar-2015 | 9:53AM · Link permanente

Okay Symantec, You lost again a customer. Bye. I'm gone

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 20-mar-2015 | 1:33PM · Link permanente

What is unbelievable is that Norton does not seem to be monitoring this forum. Not even a "I feel your pain." reply from Norton. It's like they really don't care.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 20-mar-2015 | 6:28PM · Link permanente

Words fail me. I guess it's frustrating. I know Symantec is working on a fix but I have no other details and no ETA, unfortunately. If you can, try to be patient a little longer.

Sandro
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 20-mar-2015 | 7:45PM · Link permanente

I too am having the BSOD  with PNP_DETECTED_FATAL_ERROR whenever I click on an open TrueCrypt-encrypted folder on my Windows 8.1 laptop. I can't believe that this is has been going on for 3 months! What the hell??? Now I'm regretting buying that subscription last month to Norton Security. Should've gone with one of the free antivirus programs. This is just stupid.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 5:35AM · Link permanente

May I ask (this thread has become long): This issue only concerns Win8/8.1?

I am running Win7x64Pro and I have some TrueCrypted (7.1a) files and software using virtual drives. I have not encountered any problems.

My Win8.1 comp is still running NIS v21. I'm worried about the long time it has taken to resolve the problem; it is still unresolved....

NS Deluxe / NS Online - Win10 // NMS on Android phones.
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 7:02AM · Link permanente

Well, I am one of those who has accepted Norton's 'invitation' (via Liliana in this forum) to install last year's product on a free licence until the problem is fixed. Originally we we given a date of no later than March 31 but so far no further word of course. I agreed to be patient until then, but am still holding out the option of a full refund if I am not happy at the end of this (I only renewed recently so am still eligible).

But in the interim, I have installed a free trial of BitDefender and am using that right now. It has some quirks but also some very interesting features.  

Truth told, even assuming that the Norton product gets fixed to all our satisfactions, I will have a hard choice whether to go back to it or not. I still like the Norton product interface and how it functions (familiarity I guess), but clearly it is not the only good product around. My Norton days may well be numbered....

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 8:33AM · Link permanente

I really don't understand why it is taking so long to have a fix for this.  Its over 4 months.  If they can't resolve a simply thing like this what make you think Norton Antivirus is truly working correctly.   This show how reliable Norton software truly are.   At my company if they took this long to solve a bug, they would be out of a job.  

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 8:37AM · Link permanente

How can Norton distribute a software that hasn't tested fully.  What kind of Norton software company is this?  It shows that they don't really test your product before selling it.   Software 101, do a compatibility test before distribution or a beta test.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 9:07AM · Link permanente

How can Norton distribute a software that hasn't tested fully.

I agree that this time frame is unacceptable. But you cannot say Norton do not test. You have to remember that there are millions of combinations of hardware and software that every program and OS has to interact with each other without conflict. I am sometimes amazed that anything can work properly.

Every once in a while, there will be a sector of users with a specific program, utility, or feature on their system that may interact with some software update. I'm not belittling the users affected by this particular Norton issue, but how many Home users (who are the target for Norton products) would be using encryption software on their systems? I am only suggesting that this particular feature/utility is probably not used by a large percentage of home users, and as such, probably slipped by the QC testing.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 9:27AM · Link permanente

This isn't really about how the bug got in. Even MS with its Win10 Beta, err public Preview, will NOT ship a bug free product. Some user will hit a problem and they'd have to react.

The problem here is this bug was introduced with a 'fix'. Many months ago. So far, the only 'offer' was to downgrade (until 3/31) to the prior version until fixed. I recall the original problem was slow shutdowns? If so I would have traded that off for the BSOD. Again, if that was the case, why didn't Norton/Symantec just revert to the prior version that didn't have the BSOD?

So what is taking so long? It is easy to reproduce. Silence is deafening here... no real status at all, sigh...

I suspect the code where the problem lies isn't as easy to fix and/or other fixes made too are interfering. Still, why not at least allow 'some' here to test the 'fix' (and others) they have. If 3/31 is a 'guaranteed' delivery date for the fixed version, oh well we've waited so long already, sigh...

I suspect the code is a can of worms and if you fix one bug another pops up. Who knows?

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 10:26AM · Link permanente

peterweb:

 I'm not belittling the users affected by this particular Norton issue, but how many Home users (who are the target for Norton products) would be using encryption software on their systems? I am only suggesting that this particular feature/utility is probably not used by a large percentage of home users, and as such, probably slipped by the QC testing.

My understanding is that it goes well beyond just a few home users who use encryption. It is not limited to one encryption program for one thing - it is many. And I also understood that this problem shows up with ANY program that tries to mount a virtual drive. While that may not in total encompass a majority of home users, nether do I think that you can just dismiss that cohort as being an insignificant number. Unless I misunderstood, I think that this bug hits a lot more users than you imply. Problem is, the ones we see here are just the very tip of the iceberg. As was mentioned earlier, how many people out there are experiencing the BSOD over and over and have no clue why, nor have a single clue as to the actual offending problem (Norton)?     

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 11:10AM · Link permanente

Lillana Gaspar (a Norton employee)  did write here on the 2nd of March that Norton actually was still working on a fix and that there is someone at Norton who reads these posts almost daily...  and I think we have to take her word on this.  

We can, and should continue to point out to which ever Norton employee it actually is who reads this, that fixing a known problem in a Norton product that causes DISTRUCTIVE damage - loss of work, BSOD, etc, and was specifically caused by a Norton NS patch (thus they know the exact code that is causing this), should have been quickly addressed and repaired.

The NORTON CODE is destructive to anyone using a virtual drive - and this includes Microsoft Office 2010 by the way - as well as various Cloud Drives -  this is somewhat shocking.  That this destructive code STILL EXISTS in NS after almost 100 days is beyond belief.

That a fix takes so long, and may never actually be made as far as we know,  pretty much has destroyed confidence any of use here had in Norton.  If they cannot fix this, can they really protect against new complex threats to our computers? 

If there was a Virus that did exactly what Norton Security currently does - causing a BSOD when security software (or even MS Office 2010 !!!) is run - would/could they stop it quickly?   Or perhaps they just might say, nah, it ain't attacking so many people, let's just let this go...   

If Norton cannot or will not fix their own code problem, which should be easy by the way, what does this say about the quality of Norton Security doing the job it says it can do?

Code repair and testing does NOT take 90 days.  This is especially true in that you know the exact code patch that caused this problem! 

And while Symantec is currently in such a mess... splitting into two companies, laying off over 2,000 employees, producing buggy code in products, can they, while all this is going on, still protect our computers from new threats?

I do not think that anyone in this forum will answer yes to the above question.

Before this problem I had 100% confidence in Norton products.... not now.

So to the Norton employee who is reading this to pass on... lots of folks have jumped ship and are buying other brands now.  And we are a bunch of rather tech savvy folks here, we get to recommend to business and friends which software best protects their computers....  so you not only lose the single person you see here on this particular forum but many others as well who will purchase other software on our recommendation  and especially with our experience here with this particular problem in Norton code...

regards to all

Michael Gore

San Francisco

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 12:21PM · Link permanente

Hello

I brought this thread to the attention of Norton/Symantec in the beginning of Jan. There is more than 1 Norton Employee reading this thread. I personally do not have this problem, but please believe me that Norton is well aware of this thread and how every one in this thread feels and all the others out in the field feels and those who don't realize it was patch 1.0.9 which caused this problem while fixing other problems that others had. They don't want the next patch to cause problems for another group.

The program and patches have to work for XP, Vista, Win 7, and win 8 plus all the flavors of each operating system, not only that, then there are millions of computer programs and win 7with some flavors can make a virtual drive which goes back to xp and all their programs. There are just so many different variables that a new patch or hotfix for this problem.

I'm not a Norton Employee, I do not have this problem with encryption and virtual drives, but believe me, Norton knows about this thread and is working on a fix. I know you want to hear something from a Norton Employee who is actually involved in this problem. Sorry I'm not one who can tell you any more than I have. I'm reading this thread every time there is a new post here..

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit 2004 N 360 22.20.5.39 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 2:57PM · Link permanente

GeneJockey:
peterweb:

 I'm not belittling the users affected by this particular Norton issue, but how many Home users (who are the target for Norton products) would be using encryption software on their systems? I am only suggesting that this particular feature/utility is probably not used by a large percentage of home users, and as such, probably slipped by the QC testing.

My understanding is that it goes well beyond just a few home users who use encryption. It is not limited to one encryption program for one thing - it is many. And I also understood that this problem shows up with ANY program that tries to mount a virtual drive. While that may not in total encompass a majority of home users, nether do I think that you can just dismiss that cohort as being an insignificant number. Unless I misunderstood, I think that this bug hits a lot more users than you imply. Problem is, the ones we see here are just the very tip of the iceberg. As was mentioned earlier, how many people out there are experiencing the BSOD over and over and have no clue why, nor have a single clue as to the actual offending problem (Norton)?     

I am not implying that any number of users with a problem is insignificant. I was only trying to point out how this issue might have been missed in testing, as the number of users that use encryption or virtual drives is probably a very small percentage of total home users of Windows. Even the issue with Office 2010 may not affect as many as we think, as I use Office 2010 and have never seen this BSOD issue on my system.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 6:54PM · Link permanente

floplot...

Surely you cannot for an instant think that it takes a group of Norton code experts almost  100 days to fix a problem inside the main personal Security Software the company sells to customers, especially since they know the exact code patch that caused this problem...   this is NOT something they have to search to find out what is causing the problem.  The bad code is known.

The code fault was reported to Norton within a few days of the Patch release.   The destructive code is still inside Norton Security today.

Norton is NOT the company it once was. It is loosing respect among professionals and end users.  The software is NOT working correctly... NS had a code flaw causing long - up to two hour - computer turn off time caused by Norton Software.  What buggy software it was to begin with!!  Now it's just causing havoc for perhaps a few thousand people with our problem, but many others are having various problems still.

We do not need the standard line on how hard it is to make good software products, we all know that. Yes testing takes time, but apparently Norton did not test the previous version very well at all, yet released it. Quality Testing does NOT take 100 days. Nor do we need to hear from a non-employee that Norton is working hard  on a fix, or even that Norton is paying attention to us..  Since you are not an employee no one at Norton needs (or should)  tell you anything, and you are not privy to what is going on within the company. What you think you know may NOT be what is actually going on inside the Norton group.  I worked at the massive search company for years... and if I were to tell you (a non employee) anything, I'd be fired. You may think you have friends inside, but they are under strict non-disclosure, which is especially enforced when companies go into change, chaos, confusion and uncertainty.  Norton folks are trying to hold onto their jobs right now - 10% of employees have been laid off within the last two months...  So you really cannot know much if anything. You are basically just guessing. Any information that reaches you is the Company Line.

We all here already know the basic Company Line well.  Many of us repeated it ourselves in our various jobs over the years.

Only an actual Symantec employee can or should give us information.   And we here continue to ask for such information....  

Without actual inner Norton group knowledge all you are doing is apologizing for Norton... as an outsider.

======================================

On another note here is an interesting blog note about our problem... and another Norton Internet Security recent failure a month ago...

https://grahamcluley.com/2015/02/buggy-norton-crashes-internet-explorer/

regards,

Michael Gore

San Francisco

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 7:08PM · Link permanente

 Hello

Check out what a Guru is.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit 2004 N 360 22.20.5.39 Chrome latest version.
Kudos4 Estatísticas

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 8:15PM · Link permanente

Hi, Michael. Floplot is a Guru. and has been for a long time. Here is a Guru definition.

Guru:

A Guru is a Norton product user and an expert in using it. He/She is reliable link to Norton / Symantec and can provide expert help to fellow Norton users.
The gurus will be identified by a skyblue badge with a star near their rank.

Yes, it's taking a long time, but better that than putting out a fix that causes more damage.

Fwiw, Flo has been in constant contactwith Symantec and is just as anxious for a fix, as are we all.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 21-mar-2015 | 9:51PM · Link permanente

Permalink

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit 2004 N 360 22.20.5.39 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 8:15AM · Link permanente

I believed 4 months is beyond reasonable.  If Norton can't fix a issue like BSOD, what makes you think they can fix other virus issues.   Do they lack technical people to resolve this issue?  If so they probably don't have the technical resource to keep on with new viruses.  This issue with BSOD should of been resolved from day one.    Sounds like they are just buying time,  and there will not be a solution for this... What software company would allow this to go on for more that 4 months...?

Kudos2 Estatísticas

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 1:57PM · Link permanente

Goreski

You make a number of assumptions apart from it is simple to fix bugs....

You may think you have friends inside, but they are under strict non-disclosure,

This guru and others had to sign a very strict non-disclosure agreement that included finger printing and photographing .... gave me the impression I'd left my first born behind when I left the premises .... and we signed one when we first became gurus .... 

They don't tell us things as friends I can assure you. They tell us so that we can do what we volunteer to do which is help other users, something common to all software and operating system sources these days.

Only an actual Symantec employee can or should give us information.  

If you checked (there are two threads on this topic I believe) you will find that an actual Symantec employee did post a message about the delay.  And subsequently links to that message have been reposted.

 apparently Norton did not test the previous version very well at all, yet released it.

Funny thing happened on the way to the Forum .... it was tested by Norton all round the world and by hundreds of the users who post here ....

What people completely ignore is that sometimes it can take a combination of two parameters to cause a visible problem that for all appearances is linked to only one change, in this case in Norton. If you don't know what I mean by this do a search here on [ Norton 360 + PowerDesk + context menu ] and you will see a real example where it was "obvious" that Norton was at fault because remove Norton 360 and leave the other two and there was no problem .... but in fact the crashes were due to PowerDesk not keeping their code in line with Microsoft changes in Windows when Norton did .....

I'm not saying that the TrueCrypt problem here is like this but I can say from a very long experience in R&D that nothing is ever as simple as we like to think.

Do you really believe that Norton or any other company would be sitting on their hands enjoying this kind of situation? Easy to say it should not take 100 days when you don't have to do it and hope to achieve it without creating other crashes in other configurations including those that do not use encryption.

Kudos1 Estatísticas

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 2:08PM · Link permanente

ABS

 If Norton can't fix a issue like BSOD, what makes you think they can fix other virus issues. 

Totally different type of situation. See above about this BSOD so I won't repeat it here.

Preventing and dealing with viruses etc involves dealing with "attacks" by methods foreign to the user's chosen environment -- stopping entry or stopping changes.

Dealing with the BSOD involves dealing with something that is part of the user's chosen environment that is misbehaving and finding and treating that without "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". 

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 6:09PM · Link permanente

Norton please provide a fix for this issue.  Is it because your company don't know how to fix it?  If so, please hire someone that has the expertise to fix this issue. 

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 6:46PM · Link permanente

100 days without a fix is quite unthinkable. Despite the  'Golly it is so difficult... you don't understand'  excuses and  the jovial remark the likes of 'let's see you do it!'  Gosh that's helpful!

  Let's see... Code worked before a patch, they know the patch code, know the problem, you fix the bad patch code, test and retest...   It's not a mystery.

Norton is packed with Expert Coders.  They isolated the code fault long ago. December 19th I think it was actually, according to a Symantec employee. "We have identified the issue and the solution. We will ship the solution as soon as we can."  

Gosh... took them 6 days after the very first report of NS causing BSOD with Virtual Drive software.  So  that's perhaps 1 day of working on it, perhaps two.  Done. And they did it quickly. THAT is the Norton I used to know. It gets tested. And it gets re-tested.   But apparently there are other issues...somewhere...with something... unknown to us, and not in discussion. 

Quickness in solving  destructive code within a Security product is what I and others EXPECT from Norton.   No excuses, fix the bad code, solve the problem. 

Personally, I'm hoping that since it is the end of the month, the end of a quarter as well...100+ days... maybe soon! 

And yes, the delay in fixing our problem is causing a lack of confidence in current Norton software. Why would we (or anyone) have confidence in a product that still has bad destructive code residing within it after 100+ days???  No excuses, fix the bad code, solve the problem. 

But hey, NIS 2014 still works just fine! 

regards to all...

Michael Gore

San Francisco

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 7:21PM · Link permanente

Here's the problem I have with handling this issue (notwithstanding the claims that "this problem only affects few advanced users")

There are bugs and then there are bugs. To give you an analogy - if my microwave clock occasionally resets itself it's one thing. However, if whenever I try to brew a cup of espresso in my coffee machine, my microwave goes on fire, it seems to me manufacturer of the aforementioned device would be rushing to issue a recall and fix the problem.

Here we have an analogous situation: TrueCrypt (or VeraCrypt) doesn't cause my system to BSOD - I've used it for years, some of that time with NIS. It is specifically the latest release of Norton-whatever-it-is-called-these-days that is causing this behavior.

Now, I'm not an expert in Windows systems programming, but I've been writing software for about 25 years. A problem that clearly defined and that reproducible should not be a big effort to track down and fixed. And zero feedback by Symantec staff on this thread speaks volumes. Not sure this is the attitude I'd like from the company I trust to keep my computers clean. Today they ignore a bug that crashes the PC, tomorrow they might decide to ignore a rootkit or a drive-by exploit for several months. If there is any segment of computer industry where speed and transparency are critical, this is the one.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant - not that it matters for me now (happy new user of Kaspersky - and guess what - TrueCrypt works again!).

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 22-mar-2015 | 8:47PM · Link permanente

There are so many comments and yet Norton still hasn't taken this issue seriously.  

Kudos1 Estatísticas

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 23-mar-2015 | 5:06PM · Link permanente

Antibluescreen:

There are so many comments and yet Norton still hasn't taken this issue seriously.  

And you know that how ?

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 24-mar-2015 | 2:00AM · Link permanente

Norton is gone... Welcome Kaspersky.

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 24-mar-2015 | 6:36AM · Link permanente

4 months with no solution but just buying time... Norton is aware of the issue but yet they don't have the expertise or time to resolve the issue.  That said a lot of the company and the type of people that works there.  

Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 24-mar-2015 | 11:13AM · Link permanente

Antibluescreen:

4 months with no solution but just buying time... Norton is aware of the issue but yet they don't have the expertise or time to resolve the issue.  That said a lot of the company and the type of people that works there.  

It won't be 4 months until almost the middle of April. Granted though, it is a long time to wait for a fix to a problem. Things though always seem to take longer when one counts the days. Life moves on at it's own pace. A bit of philosophy.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 10 Pro 64 bit 2004 N 360 22.20.5.39 Chrome latest version.
Kudos0

Re: LONG STORY: Norton BSOD me when I use Truecrypt

Postado: 24-mar-2015 | 8:06PM · Link permanente

Well my review on Amazon has had two people say it was helpful. That is at least two people who will not be buying Norton. We should all notify as many people as we can about this situation and let them decide if they want to do business with a company that can't or won't fix a problem that causes people's machines to crash.

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