360 won't start every time under Windows 8.1 - 8504, 104

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
1

I've recently reset my copy of Windows 8 (effectively reinstalled it from scratch) and have updated it to Windows 8.1.  After reinstalling Norton 360, I was disappointed to find that the Norton software would only load occasionally.  It should load in the background every time, but most of the time it fails to load.  Nothing appears in the taskbar, and the vault access is unavailable.  A reboot often solves it, but not all the time. 

 

I've also been getting an error - 8504, 104.

 

I don't believe I had this problem before I reinstalled.  What I do know is that the computer has a fresh operating system.  Is there a compatibility issue with windows 8.1?

 

Any ideas?

2

Thanks for your reply.

 

There was no security software already installed.  I had been running Windows 8 for about a year and felt it needed to be reinstalled to get rid of the junk that builds up in that time.  I did a Windows 'reset' (this is the technical term that means that windows effectively erases itself and reinstalls from scratch - a new feature with Windows 8.)  I overwrote the original partition (after backing it up first with Acronis Trueimage) so there should be no residual software leaving 'debris.'  In effect, there is nothing left of my old operating system on my machine. 

 

I do not buy new 'whole' computers - I build them from scratch using good-quality components I've chosen and installed myself, using an operating system I install myself.  That way there is no dodgy 'trial' software preinstalled to worry about.  I find it a little cheaper that way, and it allows me to pick and choose what I put in the system.

 

The update to Windows 8.1 was conincidental.  It just happened to be released at the same time as I reset my machine, so I upgraded it.

 

Norton 360 hasn't loaded with this boot of the machine so I can't tell you exactly what version I'm using until I restart my computer.  I'll restart and amend this post when I get Norton 360 running.

 

Just restarted windows.  Norton loaded this time. The version number is: 21.1.0.18

 

Hope that helps!

 

3

I've recently reset my copy of Windows 8 (effectively reinstalled it from scratch) and have updated it to Windows 8.1.  After reinstalling Norton 360, I was disappointed to find that the Norton software would only load occasionally.  It should load in the background every time, but most of the time it fails to load.  Nothing appears in the taskbar, and the vault access is unavailable.  A reboot often solves it, but not all the time. 

 

I've also been getting an error - 8504, 104.

 

I don't believe I had this problem before I reinstalled.  What I do know is that the computer has a fresh operating system.  Is there a compatibility issue with windows 8.1?

 

Any ideas?

4

Hi DanielP

Windows 8.1 is compatible with Norton v21.1.0.18.

 

To check Norton is running can you launch the task manager and click on the process tab, click on the description tab to sort that column A-Z and there are two different ways to find out if Norton is running depending on the version of Norton.

In the image name check for Norton.exe and on that line in the description column system.

If you see this Norton is running if not physically disconnect from the Internet.

There can be other instances of the above depending on the Norton products on the computer.

 

You might like to try setting boot time protection to aggressive, then click apply, click ok, close all programmes and restart the computer.

 

Can you check on the computer clock that the following are correct?

The time?

The day?

The month?

The Year?

The time zone?

Its written like this because in the past people check the time only and one of the others is incorrect and is causing problems for the Norton product.

To check the above click on the clock in the task bar, on the dialogue box that opens click on, change date and time settings.   

 

Check for Norton updates manually or right click the Norton icon in the task bar and click, run live updates, and then recheck until there are no more updates restarting the computer as requested.

 

Check for windows updates manually then recheck until there are no more updates restarting the computer as requested.

 

Try running autofix by clicking the Norton icon, click support, click get support (or right click the Norton icon in the task bar and click Get support) let it run then restart the computer.  It should tell you if any items where fixed.  If you get an error message about MBAM then just click on skip on the error screen.

 

 

ATB

 

intesec

5

Thanks for your response.

 

I've carried out the instructions you suggested, and here are the results.

 

The time, date and region are all correct.

 

I've run all Norton updates to the point where there is nothing left to update.

 

I've set boot time protection to agressive but not had a chance to test it yet.

 

Autofix does not find any errors, but then autofix can only run when Norton is running.  The problem is that Norton does not always start, and so autofix cannot be run when it is most needed (ie. when Norton doesn't load).

 

The most interesting result is from checking task manager.  When Norton is not loading properly, there is an incidence of Norton running listed in the task manager under the Background processes tab.  This incidence of Norton is called 'Norton 360 (32 bit)' and uses about 7.0 MB of memory.  It has a sub category that lists itself as 'Norton 360.'  This is the only incidence of Norton running at this time.  At these times I cannot access Norton vault, nor can I access the Norton application.

 

However, when Norton loads correctly, there is not only that version of Norton, but another one running, too, according to the task manager.  This second one is named identically, but has a green tick mark whereas the other one does not.  It does not have a sub-category.  At these times I can access Norton vault and the Norton application.

 

Does this mean I somehow have two incidences of Norton running?  Or is this supposed to appear?

 

Thanks

6

Hi DanielP

Regarding the instances of Norton running in task manager check out yank’s post click here.

 

 

ATB

 

intesec

7

Thanks for replying.

 

Unfortunately, the link didn't really help much.  There are using a different version of Task manager to myself so I couldn't follow the procedures

I've found that autofix runs automatically after a minute or two of the computer being on when Norton fails to load.  The result copied from the clipboard is:

 

Norton 360
21.1.0.18
Error: 8504, 104
Windows 8.1 Pro
9600.16404.amd64fre.winblue_gdr.130913-2141
Norton Autofix Results: 0 item(s)

Any idea what this means?

 

There are a few things I could try.  I run Stardock Start8, which could possibly be causing a conflict on bootup.  I also run Superantispyware (a product that catches a lot of malware that Norton 360 misses.)  Again, that might be causing a conflict.  I'll try switching these off to see if makes any difference.

 

I had to uninstall Norton at one point and reinstall it.  When I did so it asked if I wished to continue using Norton vault even though 360 was installed.  I selected 'yes,' even though I intended to install Norton again later.  It went on to install a seperate application for Vault on my system which I didn't want.  I've since deleted it and reinstalled the full Norton 360, but I wonder if this may have caused a conflict?

 

If you could tell me what the autofix results mean I may have more of a clue.

 

Thanks

8

Hi Daniel P,

 

Error 8504, 104 is a wide coverage error for Product encountering Conflict or file corruption.  This basically means there is some kind of confict between the Norton Product and other product(s) installed or corruption within the Norton install.

 

So let's work on that first. 

 

From main page of N 360, Select  Settings > Antivirus > Automatic Protection Tab and set Boot Time Protection to Normal and Apply - restart your system. 

 

Please disable Stardock Start8 (just to see if it conflicts) - I am not familiar with it's operation other then I know it sort of replaces(provides) the start Menu in Win 8.

 

Is your SUPERAntiSpyware the Pro version?  If it is the free versionir will not cause conflict - howevere if Pro, please disable the Real-time portion of it.

 

In regards to the "continued use of Norton Vault that you accepted", please go to Control Panel (Programs & Features) and see if there is a Stand Alone ID Safe listed and if so uninstall it, followed by a reboot.  I know you said you deleted it - buit need to verify.

 

Unfortuneately AutoFix, does not say much about what it fixes and there are no logs produced so that users can see what it fixed.  This is something IMHO that needs to be changed by Norton and I do believe there are a few suggestions on the Product Suggestion Board to create an "AutoFix log" after it fixes something.

 

 

Let us knwo how things go.

 

 

 

9

Thanks for the reply.

 

Okay, I've begun by setting boot time protection back to normal.  I am using the Superantispyware Pro version, so as you've suggested I've disabled the realtime protection.  There is no Norton Vault left on my system as far as I can tell having checked again.

 

All that leaves is to disable Start8.  Before I do that I'll see what difference the disabling of realtime protection on superantispyware makes first.  If the problem still occurs I'll disable Start8. 

 

I'll let you know later what happens.

 

Thanks again,

 

Daniel

10

Okay, I've tried further tests and here are the results.

 

First, I switched off superantispyware's realtime protection.  Fortunately, this was not the cause of the problem.  This was good news as Norton has an appalling reputation for catching malware cookies.  As an example, after a few hours browsing I ran a quick scan with Norton and it found no malware on my system.  I ran Superantispyware immediately afterwards and it detected no less than 56 inidividual tracking cookies infecting my machine (from the likes of Google and other stat collection companies).  You just can't trust Norton to protect your machine fully these days (its probably down to lawyers or lobbying), so the thought of switching off Superantispyware was not pleasant.  As its not the cause of the problem I've switched it back on again.  Without Superantispyware running I'd need to run CCleaner every few days to be sure the system was truly safe.

 

Next, I've tried switching off Start8.  So far, Norton has booted every time.  It's early days yet but I think its possible this may be the cause of the problem.  I'll have to test it for a while longer (I've only done four or five reboots since uninstalling it) but so far Norton has started correctly.  If this is the problem I'll have to let Stardock know as I won't be the only person with this issue, and unless you use the Norton app regularly its an easy problem to miss.

 

I'll let you know how I get on.  It may still be that Start8 is not the problem, so I won't call it solved until further testing.

 

11

Sadly, it turns out that Start8 is not to blame.  After switching off the machine and switching it on again, Norton fails to load.

 

The next thing I'll test is removing AI suite II (software that came with my motherboard.)  This loads on startup and is notoriously unreliable.  It may be causing a conflict, so the best way to test is to remove it altogether.

 

Stay tuned ...

12
DanielP wrote:

Okay, I've tried further tests and here are the results.

 

First, I switched off superantispyware's realtime protection.  Fortunately, this was not the cause of the problem.  This was good news as Norton has an appalling reputation for catching malware cookies.  As an example, after a few hours browsing I ran a quick scan with Norton and it found no malware on my system.  I ran Superantispyware immediately afterwards and it detected no less than 56 inidividual tracking cookies infecting my machine (from the likes of Google and other stat collection companies).  You just can't trust Norton to protect your machine fully these days (its probably down to lawyers or lobbying), so the thought of switching off Superantispyware was not pleasant.  As its not the cause of the problem I've switched it back on again.  Without Superantispyware running I'd need to run CCleaner every few days to be sure the system was truly safe.

 

No arguement about Norton - nor any other security program protecting your system 100 % and we do recommend additional scans to aid in your protection.   Here's our recommendation - SuperAntiASpyware Free and/or MalwareBytes Anti-Malware Free.  The Free versions of both do not run in real-time and thus do not cause any conflicts with Norton.  We recommend they be used as "on-demand scanners" - such as you would use CCleaner.  SAS may not have caused the situation with Norton not starting, but sooner or later it may conflict since it is running real-time.  since you elected to let it run in real-time please stay alert to any possible slow downs/conflicts.

 

13

Hi DanielP

The links below need the basic version downloaded not the trial or the pro the same when installing to avoid any real time protection, which should be turned off as it can conflict with your security software.  To download latest version top RHS of page.  Install and get updates.  The site for the downloads of the software is OK but don’t click on the adverts.

 

http://www.filehippo.com/download_superantispyware/

 

http://www.filehippo.com/download_malwarebytes_anti_malware/

 

 

ATB

 

intesec

 

 

14

Thanks for the reply.  I'm going to try uninstalling superantispyware entirely.

 

I did actually get some success when I completely uninstalled Norton 360 and reinstalled from scratch.  For a while it seemed to boot perfectly without trouble, but recently its gone back to its old ways again.  I thought I'd give it a few days to test it first before declaring it solved, but sadly the problem continues.

 

I'm guessing that something like CCleaner or antispyware is erasing some essential file, but I'm not sure what software would do that.  I don't think its antispyware, but I'll remove it to see what happens.

 

I'll keep you posted.

15

Just to confirm that superantispware has been removed from my computer but the problem with Norton 360 persists.

 

I've noticed that Norton 360 always fails to load when the computer has been switched off, then switched on again.  But when the computer is restarted (ie. rebooted without being switched off) Norton 360 more often than not loads correctly.

 

Any ideas?

16

Hi DanielP

Do you have an Asus main board?

 

The below is for SAS

Conflict in security software can be the cause of various issues even if the security software has been uninstalled the debris left on the system needs to be removed with the removal tool for the specific security software.

 

singularlabs website on the link below and choose from the list.

 

http://singularlabs.com/uninstallers/security-software

 

Uninstall using windows add/remove programme.  Check that the security software is not there.

Restart the computer.

Run the removal tool.

Restart the computer.

 

This process should be performed for each security software to be uninstalled, meaning one at a time.

 

If you have previously uninstalled then the removal tool needs to be run and the computer restarted.

 

You have said you have reinstalled Norton but did you use the below process?

 

Log into Norton management on the link below using your Norton account email address and password, click on my account, click on product details.

Click on the yellow download button and save the download. 

 

Make a note of your current Norton product key from this page.

 

https://manage.norton.com/

 

If you use ACT! or WinFax, back up those databases before you proceed.

Download Norton removal tool link below.  Running the Norton removal tool will remove other Norton products that are on the computer.

 

www.Norton.com/nrt

 

You’ll need to backup or export in both formats your identity safe and any other users identity safe if it is used, before doing the below.

 

Physically disconnect from the internet (unplug the internet cable or disable the wifi).

 

Uninstall Norton using the windows add/remove programme.

Restart the computer.

Recheck for Norton using the windows add/remove programme and uninstall if there.

Restart the computer.

Run the Norton removal tool.

Restart the computer.

Norton will automatically request an internet connection when it has failed to connect to the server, connect to the internet and click retry at this point norton is active connecting to the internet at an earlier time may have the computer unprotected and connected to the internet.

 

Install Norton and follow the prompts to activate it, run live updates as many times as it takes to get, no more live updates, restarting as requested.

 

Check your identity safe has data if not import the data.

 

If you have any questions please ask before starting.

 

 

This link, click here, is not directly related to the issue you are having but it is related to the Norton product and is about prefetch files.

 

 

ATB

 

Intesec

17

Thanks for the response.

 

To clarifty, I'll summarise the problem once more:

 

Norton never boots from a 'cold start' of the computer.  It does boot from a reset (reboot) more often.  When it fails to properly boot, there is actually a Norton program running in the background according to Task Manager, I do not have access to the user-interface, nor do I have access to the vault via the browser.  So some of Norton loads, but not all of it.

 

I have uninstalled superantispyware.  It is not the problem.  I have used the link you sent me to completely remove it and it has made no difference to the problem.

 

I have uninstalled and reinstalled Norton 360.  This appeared to work - the problem ceased.  But a few days after I'd reinstalled the matter of Norton 360 not loading correctly reocurred.

 

Therefore: the issue is not connected to other antivirus/antimalware services as they have all been removed.  It is consistent in that it always occurs on a cold boot of the computer.  Uninstalling Norton 360 and reinstalling it appeared to work at first, but the problem quickly reocurred.

 

Also, I have carried out a fresh install of Windows 8.1 from scratch.  This is as close as you can get to a new operating system install.  Products that run on start-up include Acronis Trueimage 2014 (demo), Nvidia GeFroce Experience, Steam, Saitek drivers, Corsair drivers, logitech drivers, dropbox, Keepass, Asus Jmicron drivers.

 

Possible causes: I've run CCleaner that may have deleted some critical files.  There may be a clash with Acronis Trueimage, Keepass, or the Asus drivers.  There may be some issues with 'permissions.'  Either way, the problem always occurs on a cold boot but is less likely to occur on a reboot.

 

I could try reinstalling Norton 360 again, but although this worked in the past it did not seem to work for more than a few days.  I'll let you know how I get on.

18

I've uninstalled Norton 360.

 

The first time I uninstalled it I kept my settings.  The problem with it not booting correctly reappeared.

 

The second time I uninstalled it fully, deleting my settings and using the Norton uninstall tool.  This time the problem of it not loading correctly had been resolved.  I should point out that this happened before, and a few days later it was back to not loading correctly.

 

The Vault plugin has not loaded into Firefox yet.  Might be important, might not be.

 

I'll keep you posted.

19

Since the last post, Norton 360 was working perfectly until yesterday evening.  I'm guessing that was about 3 or 4 days of it running fine before failing again.  To get it to work I had to do a full uninstall/reinstall, making sure to delete all my settings.  If I try to reinstall it while keeping my settings the problem continues, so obviously something in the settings (or something not uninstalled when I ask to keep my settings) is causing this.

 

It is now, once again, no longer loading every time.  But for the past few days it worked perfectly as it should.  I have no idea what should suddenly cause it to change.

 

Any ideas what might be causing this?

20

Hi DanielP

Do you have an Asus main board?

 

When you reinstall are you downloading a fresh copy of Norton 360?

 

People have been reporting driver issues with windows 8.1, whether this is the issue in your case I’m not sure but rolling back the driver or changing the driver from the source to another source so from the manufacture of the computer to windows or vice versa.

 

 

ATB

 

intesec