Background tasks using 100% CPU and not stopping once computer is not idle

I'm frequently seeing cases where I go to use my computer and basically can't because ccSvcHst.exe is using 100% of the CPU.  I can open other programs, but it takes for ever to do so.  Last time this happened I managed to get the NIS 2009 CPU Usage window open and saw that the "Norton Insight Submission" process had kicked off while the computer was idle and basically just kept running after it was no longer idle.

 

The process ran for about 9 minutes of which probably 1 minute was during the idle time.  The other 8 minutes were when I was trying to use my laptop.

 

I thought the background processes were suppose to suspend when usage was detected?  Isn't that the whole idea of a "background process"?

What version of NIS2009 are you using and how was it installed?  Over old versions, online upgrade, etc.

Message Edited by dbrisendine on 05-12-2009 09:30 PM

Morac wrote:

I'm frequently seeing cases where I go to use my computer and basically can't because ccSvcHst.exe is using 100% of the CPU.  I can open other programs, but it takes for ever to do so.  Last time this happened I managed to get the NIS 2009 CPU Usage window open and saw that the "Norton Insight Submission" process had kicked off while the computer was idle and basically just kept running after it was no longer idle.

 

The process ran for about 9 minutes of which probably 1 minute was during the idle time.  The other 8 minutes were when I was trying to use my laptop.

 

I thought the background processes were suppose to suspend when usage was detected?  Isn't that the whole idea of a "background process"?


Does this ever happen when Internet Explorer is NOT OPEN?

Are you running any other scan type software at the same time Norton is doing its idle time tasks?  Is there any kind of back-up software running at the same time?

And offcourse. What OS are you running?

It's the latest NIS 2009 (16.5.0.135).  This updated automatically from the prior version.  I can't remember if this was an issue in the older version or not.  I don't see this a lot since the Insight background processes run once a day.  Sometimes they stop if I go to use my computer once they kick off, sometimes they don't.  Recently I've noticed that they haven't been, but as they usually finish while idle it's hard to tell when this is an issue or not.

 

The O/S is Windows XP SP3.   There is no other automated backup, virus or spyware programs installed.  Google Desktop is installed but it and NIS 2009 have coexisted peacefully since I installed NIS 2009.

 

I did upgrade to IE 8, but I rarely run it. The only time I do so is when I want to manually check for windows updates.

 

 

My main issue here is that the Norton Insight submission task, which uses a significant portion of the CPU time, did not reliquish that CPU when Norton detected that the computer was no longer idle.  Basically the Insight submission task kept running until it finished, which took 8 minutes.

I found that the solution to this is a clean install.  At least that is what fixed the error for me.

 

 

1) Copy your Norton key for safe keeping just in case you need it. You should not need this but it is better to have the key on hand than to need it and not have ready access to the key. You can find a copy of your currently installed key in My Documents\Symantec\Norton Internet Security_Key.txt.

2) Download the Norton Removal Tool from this link. Norton Removal Tool Choose the NIS2009 link and the Norton Removal Tool (NRT) to your desktop. Directions are on the link page.

3) Download the latest version of NIS2009 from this link. Reinstall After Removal Choose the Norton NIS2009 link on this page. On the next page you can download the latest NIS2009 installation software.

4) Disconnect from the Internet until your system needs the connection later in the process.

5) Go to START > Norton Internet Security > Uninstall and let NIS2009 uninstall itself. It will want to reboot the machine. Let it.

6) During the booting of your system, go to Safe Mode by tapping the F8 key until the Advanced Options menu is shown. Choose the Safe Mode option (no network or command prompt).

7) In Safe Mode, run the NRT tool. When the tool is finished, click on the Reboot to restart your system.

8) Let Windows boot into normal mode now.

9) Install NIS2009 by double clicking the file you downloaded and saved to your desktop in step 3.

10) When the installation asks for your key or says activating your product, reconnect to the internet then (plug your cable in or turn on the wireless card). [Note: The installation may not ask for your key and activate by using the previous key on the system. Your system will still need to connect to the internet at this point so updated definitions can be downloaded.]

11) Run the Live Update process manually until Live Update reports that there are no more updates to download, N360 is fully up to date.

12) Reboot your system now to insure that any components updated during step 11 are loaded properly.

13) See if your error is fixed now.

Report back here with how this works for you.

Well it’s not that easy to tell if it’s a problem or not since it doesn’t happen consistently.

Some of the scans will continue to run if the system is not getting enough idle time to process the tasks.  In this case you would notice the issue aproximately every week or so.  If it is happening more than that, only you can decide if it is enough of a problem to deal with it.

 

If the problem is IE 8 it will self-correct in time as both programs update and changethe status quo.  What .NET framework do you have installed?

I understand what you are saying, Morac.  If it happens more than once, its a problem.  I won't go into the old saying.

 

When I had this problem, not every background task would do this.  For me, it was the idle time Insight Scan and Community Watch Submission.  It seemed like either one would get to a point in their process and when you went to interrupt idle time, would just say "Go away; I'm busy here".  I said, "No, YOU were busy here"; rebooted, uninstalled, ran the NRT (Norton Removal Tool) twice in Safe Mode, checked my laptop's Power Management settings (redid to factory defaults) and then reinstalled NIS2009 16.5.0.135 (134 depending on your location in the world).  My installation has been great since then. 

 

Perhaps check your power management settings?  Anything else set to happen at the same time; say, your screen saver?  You can change the time amount the computer is idle before Norton enters Idle Time; the setting is accessible in either the CPU Usage screen (this is the quickest way to change it) or in Settings | Miscellaneous Settings | Idle Timeout).  Making this a shorter time may solve the problem with system power management times. 

 

 

This is happening all the time now.  Basically once NIS 2009 goes into it’s insight scan processing, it won’t stop till finished, even if the machine stops being idle.

Hi Morac:

 

Did you follow Dbrisendine's suggestions?

I did not run the removal tool since doing so would wipe out all the existing Norton Insight data.  My guess is that the problem is related to the size of the common.dat file in the mrcFramework folder.  It's currently 47 MB in size.

 

Running the removal tool may indeed work around the issue, but if it's an actual problem with NIS 2009 16.5, then wouldn't it be better to diagnose the problem so it doesn't come back at a later time?

 

 

Currently, at least for me, Norton Insight seems to be broken as I'm getting server errors when trying to manually refresh the Insight data and the last run time resulted in a "failure to complete".

Insight is having server issues at the moment.  That has nothing to do with your system per se.  Others are experiencing the same issue at present.

 

The CPU usage level on the other hand has everything to do with your system.  Not trying to be rude but if you did not fully clean out Norton and left over folders then reinstalling will give you the same errors again.  The NRT does more than you think .  However, every instance of the high CPU usage on both NIS and N360 (and I suspect NAV) is related to a less than clean installation.  That is why I asked you to uninstall, run the tool and then reinstall.  Something is hanging in you installation / files on the hard drive.  A clean install has solved every one of these past issues and they have not come back afterwards.

I never tried reinstalling (using NRT or otherwise) since it hasn't bugged me enough to go through the hassle of not only having to reinstall NIS 2009, but also Norton Systemworks B.E. 2009 (since NRT wipes that out too).  Then after installing having to run a full system scan to build NIS's file data base, reboot a few times to generate Window's "prefetch" data for NIS and then running a hard drive defrag to speed up the boot time with NIS installed.  

 

Norton Insight Submission runs for about 8 minues once a day and normally I don't notice it, it's only when it decides to run right before I decide to use my laptop that I notice it.  Recently though the background scan appears to share the CPU such that I can run other programs while it is doing the scan.

 

Unless it becomes extremely annoying, I'm not going to spend a day working on this, only to possibly have it come back in a month or two.  I never saw it before 16.5 was released so I think it's something to do with that.

Just so you will know, the file database for NIS (other that the Insight database, which currently is only for the processes loaded in memory) is wiped with every full Definition update.  It will survive a system boot but at the next full update all the files need to be scanned again to get a Trust level.  (Except those that are scanned during the Insight graph type display, those files Trust survive until either the file is changed or the reported Trust from the Insight server changes.) 

 

And you are correct, this would not have been present before version 16 as it was not a feature in the pre-2009 versions, however the issue been report by others from version 16.0.0.125 up to now.

db is right. For the last 1-2 days the norton insight servers have been unavailable.

 

Also, how much RAM does your computer have and what type of processor is it running? This may be caused by simply not enough RAM. Even though NIS 2009 has made quantum leaps in terms of improving its speed and use of computer resources, in my mind to effectively run NIS 2009 you need minimum 512 MB (1/2GB) of RAM. Anything more only helps but anything less would cause NIS 2009 to drastically slow down your computer because of that 1/2GB at least 2/3's of it is probably being used for the Windows OS, graphics, etc.

What are you calling the "file database for NIS"?

 

The database I'm referring to is:

 

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Norton\{0C55C096-0F1D-4F28-AAA2-85EF591126E7}\Norton\mrcFramework\common.dat

 

It appears to be a database of every program that has been run on the system (for submission to Norton Community Watch and/or Insight).  It is periodically scanned and updated.  It is never deleted and in facts grows in size daily.  The size of this file on my machine is currently 47 MB.   What's the size of this file on your machine?

 

From what I've read it can cause problems.  See this post.

 

Also it wasn't a problem until 16.0.0.135.

 

 

 

In any case, I don't like the "solution" of running NRT for nearly every issue that occurs with NIS.  That would be like Microsoft telling people to format and reinstall Windows any time they encounter a problem.  As a programmer by trade I find that kind of "solution" mildly offensive.  That's why I posted here instead of contacting support (who would just recommend NRT).

Message Edited by Morac on 06-02-2009 01:05 AM

Help me understand why this is a problem.  This will grow as you use all your files, programs, etc. so that Community Watch submissions can continue?  Is it the Watch submission or the Insight scan / submission that does not stop when you make the system 'active' or both?  Is Community Watch enabled in SystemWorks also (confess I don't know that much about SystemWorks as I stopped using it in 2007)?  How many (approximately) programs do you have / run on your system?  Just curious because that file seems to be twice what it ought to be.

 

 

Sorry didn't notice the question till now - The size of the file on my system is now 25.9 MB; about the same as it has been for last three months; little larger now that SP2 for Vista is here.

Message Edited by dbrisendine on 06-02-2009 01:18 AM

Community Watch submissions are not restricted to running solely when the system is idle.  In other words, the Community Watch scan will run whether or not the system is idle.  The same is true for all the "background' tasks with the sole exception of the "Norton Insight Scan", "Norton Insight Submission" and "Idle Scan" tasks.  I have "Idle Scan" disabled though so that means for me the only tasks that only run when the system is idle is the "Norton Insight" tasks. So the only task that can incorrectly run when the system is 'active' is the Norton Insight tasks. 

 

A little notification box used to appear in the bottom right corner of the screen when the Norton Insight task ran.  I haven't seen that box in a while now.  Sometimes that box would get stuck so I haven manually closed it in the past.  I don't know if that's related or not.

 

I don't have that many programs running on my machine.  Just the included Windows Services, NIS 2009 and Google Desktop.  The later might be causing the large common.dat file size since Google Desktop keeps track of every file that's open and scans them to make it's index.  This might confuse Norton Insight into thinking that every file opened is actively running.

 

Personaly though I don't think the Insight data base is restricted to currently running programs.  If it was, then using the scan a specific

file in the Norton Insight window wouldn't work if that program wasn't running.

 

 

It's also possible that the common.dat file on my machine is so large, because I don't run NRT every few months.  I haven't run NRT since I installed NIS 2009 back in November 2008 (about 8 months ago).

 

 

Norton SystemWorks Basic Edition has no Community Watch as it has no AntiVirus component.  The only reason I mentioned NSW is because it would get wiped out if I ran the NRT tool.

Message Edited by Morac on 06-02-2009 10:35 AM