Ghost 14.0 - Does it back up open files including outlook?

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I gave up.   I couldnt find anywhere in the manual or in google where this is discussed.

 

Is this product designed to backup open files including Outook?

After a ridiculously long wait to get somebody in Tech Support on an online chat, and then a further ridiculously long chat, I have learned that the alleged way to ensure your Outlook.pst file is backed up properly is to go into the Advanced options and check the box that says "Perform full VSS backup".

 

Beyond that, I learned that VSS stands for Virtual Shadow Service, and it is a Symantec service that is part of Ghost.

 

And I learned that there is NO officially documented procedure for backing up Outlook.pst. So, if I have to recover Outlook.pst at a later date, and find that it is corrupt because it was backed up when it was open, there is nothing I can point out to support the statement that Ghost did not work correctly.

 

So, Caveat Emptor: Symantec does not provide any official, documented method for ensuring an Outlook.PST file is backed up correctly if Outlook is running when the backup occurs.

StuartV, I think you are actually closer to finding the answer then maybe you have been lead to believe.

VSS is actually a Microsoft Service that I think is part of the operating system.   This is technical but you can at least see here that it belongs to Microsoft. 

 

 http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/library/2b0d2457-b7d8-42c3-b6c9-59c145b7765f1033.mspx?mfr=true

 

I'm thinking here that Ghost utilizes this built-in Microsoft service.  If  this is being used the way it was intended then I think that all of the open files, including Outlook, may be being backed up successfully in the open state.  If this is the case than I think a normal restore would successfully restore the files, including the Outlook.pst, that were backed up in the open state.

 

I'm speculating here and getting in over my head.  Believe me there is someone in Symantec that can fully answer and explain if VSS is handling everything here and put our minds at rest.  I'm just now evaluating the product.  I dont intend to buy it until someone can tell me more definitively how this works.   It's promising in my opinion that Symantec mentioned VSS but very disappointing that its so poorly documented and even harder to get technical support to give an explanation.  Frankly I'm almost certain that their tier1 support doesnt have a clue.  I dont think they understand the question much less the answer.  Lets hope someone in Symantec who is more knowledgable will chime in.  Unfortunately I dont hold out a lot of hope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info!

 

Just for the record, this statement:

 

"Beyond that, I learned that VSS stands for Virtual Shadow Service, and it is a Symantec service that is part of Ghost."

 

is a result of a direct question I asked the Support guy. I specifically asked, is that a Microsoft service or a Symantec service. He said it was Symantec.

 

I intended to Google it anyway, but hadn't gotten a chance yet.

Stuart, I had to bad mouth Symantec since this is their board and offering this board is good customer service.  But I don’t really think their first level guys have a clue when you get them off their script.  They need to tell you something to get you off the phone in a hurry.  Thats their business model.

That's no excuse for telling me that VSS is a Symantec service when it's Microsoft.

 

Anyway, VSS appears to provide for exactly what is need to make a good backup of my Outlook.pst. Now I just need to find confirmation that Outlook 2003 is actually VSS aware....

I can’t find confirmation on MS’s site. Can anybody confirm what versions of Outlook are VSS aware? I’d guess from what I saw that Outlook 2007 is, but what about Outlook 2003?

 I don't think I'd be too secure about it unless Symantec confirms that all this stuff actually does work with VSS the way Microsoft intended.  Unless of course you want to do your own thorough testing....

 

Oh, and the reason they told you that it was a Symantec service is because I'm sure the tier1 guy doesnt have a clue what VSS really is and he probably thought it was a Symantec service.

Message Edited by tfishman on 07-01-2008 03:16 PM
Message Edited by tfishman on 07-01-2008 03:16 PM

I just tested backing up an Outlook 2003 personal file (.pst) and archive file (.ost) that were in use. I also tested restoring them and both worked fine. My system is Windows XP SP3 and I'm using Ghost 14.

 

I've only found the following documentation regarding 2003 Exchange server support for VSS 

 

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa996004(EXCHG.65).aspx

 

RR

1 Like

RR thanks for doing that testing.  You apparently are a Symantec Employee?  Isnt there any internal documents or people there that can discuss how this is supposed to work on a workstation? I mean backing up open email and other files is a fairly significant part of any backup software?  Why is it so secret?

@tfishman - I'm happy to help. Yes I'm a product manager in the consumer group. I'm new to Ghost so just getting my feet wet....

 

Good question about the documentation for this feature. My understanding is that we've been pretty quiet about the inclusion of some rock solid technology in Ghost 14 that allows "hot" backups. I don't know why. I'll try to find out and let you know.

 

Robert

 

I should clarify...when I say "quiet" I just mean marketing hasn't gotten their hands on it and run with it...

 

:)

That is great news Robert !!   Im thrilled that someone from Symantec is monitoring here and is willing to help.

 

I'm really anxious to hear what you find.

 

This is the only missing piece of what looks like a very comprehensive and capable product.

 

Thanks again,

 

Ted

Hi Robert!

 

Thanks for giving us some attention! I appreciate your test, but, for the sake of this discussion, I'm going to make the following statement:

 

Outlook 2003 is not VSS-aware. Your test is anecdotal. It worked because your backup was lucky enough to copy the PST file when it was in a transactionally consistent state. Further, unless you opened EVERY item in your PST file (messages, appointments, tasks, etc.)  to confirm its correctness, you can't even say for sure that the PST file in your test really did "work fine".

 

Please prove me wrong. Please! All it would take is a link to some Microsoft documentation that states that Outlook 2003 is VSS-aware.

After digging a bit deeper I've just learned that Norton has licensed technology from their competitor, storagecraft (shadowprotect), that is used in ghost 14 and with VSS to enable the hot backups.  Maybe that's why all of this is so hush hush.  Ironically, maybe more could be learned from storagecraft directly?

Personally, I don't feel any special need to know more about the Ghost side of VSS support. What I need to know is whether Outlook 2003 is VSS-compliant.

 

As of this moment, I have seen NO evidence to indicate that Outlook 2003 is VSS-compliant. And, of course, if it's not, then, as far as I can tell, Ghost does not provide a 100% reliable way to back up an Outlook.pst file when Outlook is running.

 

Symantec is being notably silent on the subject, which can only lead me to think in one direction....

Well before I rely on it I really do want to hear Norton say that NG 14 reliably does hot backups and list all the related caveats.  It my opinion its still vapor functionality with no liability on their part until its officially documented.

 

If they say it reliably backs up all apps that are VSS compliant then IMO it wouldnt necessarily be Norton's responsibility to keep up with which particular apps are compliant.  It seems like you should get that directly from the application vendor.  In this case that would be Microsoft.  I really think you should be able to get that from Microsoft without a lot of trouble.  Microsoft is a vendor that will provide answers to highly tehcnical questions.  This is softball for them.  You may also want to consider upgrading to Outlook 2007.  Its been out a while now and I have found it to be rock solid with a lot of really nice new features.  I understand however that you may have very legitimate reasons for not wanting to upgrade at this time.

 

Speaking of upgrades, VSS may only work with vista.  If you talk with Microsoft and you're not running Vista be sure to ask this as well.  This is also something that should  be (but isn't)  addressed by Norton and documented in the NG 14 manual.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by tfishman on 07-03-2008 08:16 AM

In researching this, I am satisfied that VSS is supported on Windows XP. And I am satisfied that Symantec says they support VSS. I also found info from MS that says that Exchange 2003 is VSS compliant. But I didn't find anything that says Outlook 2003 is VSS compliant.

 

Running on XP and working with Exchane don't really matter if Outlook 2003 is not VSS aware AND compliant. For example, as a software developer, I can easily imagine a scenario where Outlook is VSS AWARE, but not compliant. I.e. It could be AWARE when the Exchange store is busy making a shadow copy of itself and Outlook continues to work transparently. But, it might fail to be COMPLIANT by not being implemented to make a shadow copy of its local PST file when the VSS wants it to. In other words, your message store on the Exchange server would be protected, but not your local PST file.

 

You said: "I really think you should be able to get that from Microsoft without a lot of trouble." I agree. And the fact that I have not been able to find such info makes me think that perhaps that's because it's not true.

 

You also said: "it wouldnt necessarily be Norton's responsibility to keep up with which particular apps are compliant". Maybe not their responsibility, but, if they want to sell a consumer level backup solution, they ought to make sure it will back up Outlook and Outlook Express, and be able to say which versions of those things it will work with. If Symantec/Norton hasn't thoroughly tested Ghost with Outlook AND confirmed with MS what versions of Outlook are VSS compliant, then they cannot *legitimately" say "Ghost will reliably back up your PST file." All that can say, if they are honest, is we *think* it will back up your PST file.

 

I use Outlook 2003. I'm going to continue using it. I want a backup product from a company that will affirm that their product WILL back up my PST file reliably, even if Outlook is running. Or at least give me a solution that will shut down Outlook automatically during the backup and then restart it automatically when finished.

 

So far, Symantec/Norton has not provided any evidence (beyond anecdotes) that Ghost will *reliably* back up a PST file while Outlook is running. I wish they would. Otherwise, I feel like I have to pursue returning the software for a refund and finding a backup solution that *will* step up and say "yes, we will reliably back up your PST file while Outlook is running, and here's how..."

Regarding your statment:

 

"So far, Symantec/Norton has not provided any evidence (beyond anecdotes) that Ghost will *reliably* back up a PST file while Outlook is running. I wish they would. Otherwise, I feel like I have to pursue returning the software for a refund and finding a backup solution that *will* step up and say "yes, we will reliably back up your PST file while Outlook is running, and here's how..."

 

I think shadowprotect is way ahead of Norton in using both VSS and their own proprietary solutions and that's why Symantec has licensed their technology.