Ghost 15: Backup limits and automatically deleting old backups?

[S3NTYN3L]

I'm new to Ghost, having switched from Acronis True Image.

 

In ATI, i had to use a batch file to limit the number of backup images stored.

 

It is my understanding that Ghost allows for a limit on the number of backups to be configured without the need for a batch file.

Is this correct?

 

Now, I've created a scheduled task to create an independent backup of the C: drive on a weekly basis.

In the settings for the scheduled task, I set the "recovery point" limit to 4.

 

So, is Ghost will limit things to four, yes?

 

Or do I still need my batch file?

[AllenM]

HI S3NTYN3L,

 

Welcome to the Norton Community.

 

Essentially you are correct, however allow me to explain what the recovery point limit is because it is often misunderstood.

 

Ghost creates a base backup at time X and then based on your schedule it will run incrementals after that until the next scheduled base backup.

 

So say you create a new base on May 1st and then schedule backups to run twice a week and let this go for two weeks. At the end of this time you will have the base image (ending in .v2i) and 4 incremental images (ending in .iv2i). These 5 files comprise one recovery point set.

 

So when you limit this to 4 in Ghost, it is talking about SETS and not individual files. So in the example I gave above this would only be ONE out of the 4 limit that you configured.

 

You indicate having backups scheduled for twice a week. When is your BASE backup scheduled? You can find this if you go into Tasks > Run or Manage Backups then highlight the backup job and click on Edit Settings. Then click Next 3 times. On this page near the middle you will see something that says "start a new recovery point set (base)". What is this set to?

 

This one tells Ghost when to create a new base backup whereas the days and time you specify just above that tells Ghost when to perform incremental backups.

 

And yes you can do all this without a batch script.

 

You can also configure Ghost globally to help manage your backup destination by going to Tools > Manage backup Destination. Then click Settings and from here you can have Ghost monitor disk space usage on your backup drive and take action automatically or warn you when your threshold has been exceeded so that you can take action.

 

Hope this helps and please let me know how it goes.

 

Allen

[S3NTYN3L]

I set things up to create an INDEPENDENT backup once a week.

 

I did as you said and went into the edit options menu(s) for the scheduled job.

 

Clicking "Next" twice brought me to the "Options - Specify recovery point options" screen.

 

There is a checkbox (that is checked) entitled "Limit the number of recovery points for this backup".

 

I've this number set to "4".

 

 

I just went into the "Manage Backup Destination" settings and found the checkbox entitled "Limit file versions for file and folder backups" is GREYED OUT. It's also set to "6".

 

So this mean I'll get six INDEPENDENT backups before it starts deleting the oldest one(s)?

 

 

 

Ultimately, here's what I'm wanting:

 

FULL backups performed once per week.

In the folder said backups are stored, I want only 4 weeks worth of backups. (i.e. 4 individual images)

 

 

Am I doing something wrong?

[AllenM]

---

S3NTYN3L wrote:

I set things up to create an INDEPENDENT backup once a week.

 

I did as you said and went into the edit options menu(s) for the scheduled job.

 

Clicking "Next" twice brought me to the "Options - Specify recovery point options" screen.

>> I said to click Next 3 times, not 2. Again, the top portion of this window where it says "schedule" is for your incremental backups. If you want ONLY base backups and NOT incrementals you can remove the checkmark next to schedule. Just below this is the schedule for your BASE (what you called independant) backup. What is this set to?

 

Note: The section for new recovery point normally inherits the "time" from the schedule above that. Since you do not want to do incremental backups, please select Weekly from the drop down list, then click on Custom to the right of that. From the new window, select the time you want your weekly FULL backup to run.

 

There is a checkbox (that is checked) entitled "Limit the number of recovery points for this backup".

 

I've this number set to "4".

>> This refers to recovery point sets so a base + 3 incrementals counts as ONE, not 4. If you are doing ONLY BASE backups then this would indicate 4 files which end in .v2i.

 

E.g., if you do only BASE backups and want to have only 4 of them, this setting will accomplish what you want.

 

 

I just went into the "Manage Backup Destination" settings and found the checkbox entitled "Limit file versions for file and folder backups" is GREYED OUT. It's also set to "6".

 

So this mean I'll get six INDEPENDENT backups before it starts deleting the oldest one(s)?

>> This is for file and folder backups only. If you are doing image backups (Backup my Computer) this setting does not apply. The section below this applies to both image and file and folder backup and tells Ghost whether or not to manage your backup drive when available disk space gets below the threshold you set. If you don't want Ghost to manage this then don't check the box which says "Monitor disk space usage for backup storage".

 

Ultimately, here's what I'm wanting:

 

FULL backups performed once per week.

In the folder said backups are stored, I want only 4 weeks worth of backups. (i.e. 4 individual images)

 

 

Am I doing something wrong?

---

Hi S3NTYN3L,

 

Thanks for the additional information. From your description it sounds like you want ONLY Full backups and no incrementals, correct?

 

Please see responses inline (above) and let me know if this clarifies things.

 

Thanks

Allen

[S3NTYN3L]

I know you said three times, but clicking three times bought me to the page where I select a day of the week and a time of day for the backup to run.

 

When I origianlly setup the job the first screen offers two options: "Backup my computer (recommended)" or "Backup selected files and folders".

 

I chose the first one.

 

On the next screen, I select the C: drive.

 

On the third screen, it again offers two options: "Recovery point set (recommended)" or "Independent recovery point".

 

I chose the second one here.

 

 

I see no such checkbox as you describe after clicking "Next" three times.

 

Perhaps it's because I've been configuring BASE (Independent) backups from the start... <undecided.gif>

 

 

 

Anywho, to answer your question at the end of your last post:

 

Yes, I want ONLY four FULL backups and NO incrementals...

[AllenM]

Hi S3NTYN3L,

 

Thanks for the information. OK, now I see where the disconnect is. When you said "independant" I thought it was a choice of terminology but now I see what you are doing.

 

Ok, here's what you do then.

 

When you EDIT the backup settings, and click Next 3 times you should come to a different variation of the screen I mentioned before. At the top it will be labeled "Automatically create a recovery point".

 

Just below this will be a drop down list where you can choose Weekly. Then set your start time and day of the week.

 

I have attached an image of this to illustrate what the page should look like but it will take some time before you can view it since the moderator has to approve the image first.

 

You can attach your own image of this page so I can see your setting by hitting Alt+Print Screen when the window is active. Then bring up Microsoft Paint and hit Ctrl+V. Then save to your desktop as a JPG image.

 

Attach to your post by clicking the  near the top of the reply window.

 

Thanks very much.

Allen

 

[S3NTYN3L]

No need to post an image.

 

Mine looks exactly the same except I've set it for Monday at 2AM.

[AllenM]

---

S3NTYN3L wrote:

No need to post an image.

 

Mine looks exactly the same except I've set it for Monday at 2AM.

---

Hi S3NTYN3L,

 

Thanks, that was quick! I'm surprised you can view the image so quickly... Oh I think I probably know why. Since I attained the status of Guru, I think perhaps the moderator does not have to approve my images before being visible to others. Not sure but it must be something like this since I've never once seen one approved this quickly.

 

Anyway back on topic, Since you've confirmed you have the time set to Monday at 2am, does your backup not occur as per this schedule? You've also indicated setting the number of sets to keep at 4 so this sounds like it is set correctly.

 

Sorry about the initial confusion on the terminology of "independant" backup. I've seen that term used so often on the forum to talk about "recovery point set" that I just thought you were referring to this.

 

Are you having a problem with this working correctly or are you just confirming that it is set correctly?

 

Thanks very much.

Allen

[S3NTYN3L]

I won't know if this is truely working correctly for another four weeks since I've only installed Ghost this (well, last) evening.

 

I've right-clicked on the job several time and ran it manually, but Ghost hasn't honored my settings.

 

I've currently got five baackups with the .v2i file extension when there whould only be four.

 

Perhaps this is because I've been "forcing" the job to run? <undecided.gif>

[AllenM]

Hi S3NTYN3L,

 

Thanks for the update. I have not run the test in quite this way since Ghost 14 but I am pretty sure if you run the job manually, then it is likely not being enforced because of this.

 

What you may want to try since you are kind of in a testing mode anyway is to set the backup job to daily so you can find out much sooner if it works correctly for you.

 

Initially Ghost will create a 5th independant backup and once that completes successfully, it should remove the oldest one. It must create the 5th one first before it removes the oldest one because if it deleted the oldest one first and then the current one failed for some reason, then you would be left with only 3 backups instead of 4.

 

You have probably already done this but I would also suggest that you set Ghost to do Automatic verify at the end of the backup. From Edit Settings, click Next 2 times and select "Verify recovery point after creation". This option gives you the best protection.

 

Please let me know how things goes.

 

Thanks

Allen

[S3NTYN3L]

I will do just that. ;)

 

I'll let you know in a few days how it goes.

 

 

Thanks so much for your help thus far.

[AllenM]

HI S3NTYN3L,

 

I was wondering how things are going with this? Hopefully it is working Ok for you.

 

Thanks

Allen

[S3NTYN3L]

Yeah, things are working as they should.

 

The only thing I'm not liking is the fact that Ghost is appending a three digit suffix to each new backup.

For example; Backup001, Backup002, etc.

When the limit is reached, (4 in my setup), Ghost just continues with the suffix. (i.e., Backup005 being the newest and Backup001 being deleted)...

 

 

Perhaps some tweaking to the code responsible for renaming is in order?

 

As is stands right now, I'm back to using my batch file for the renaming and backup limiting...

 

Maybe the tech team can gleen some info from this batch file on how Ghost's built-in renaming should work?...

 

 

 

@ECHO OFF
REM This ensures the correct directory is chosen.

REM X:\Backup_Directory = the drive\folder used to store backups.
X:

CHDIR X:\Backup_Directory
REM Most applications like to run pre/post commands (such as this batch file) INSTANTLY after performing a task.

REM Unfortunately, the OS needs a few seconds to refresh the folder so the files actually exist when this batch file is run.


REM This next line forces a wait command. 3000 = 3seconds

REM If needed, just remove the REM from in front of the word PING.
REM PING 1.1.1.1 -n 1 -w 3000 >NUL
REM This line checks that the latest backup actually exists.
IF NOT EXIST X:\Backup_Directory\Weekly_Backup_Job.v2i EXIT
REM Just an FYI, Backup4.v2i = oldest while Backup1.v2i = newest backup
IF EXIST Backup4.v2i DEL Backup4.v2i

IF EXIST Backup3.v2i REN Backup3.v2i Backup4.v2i

IF EXIST Backup2.v2i REN Backup2.v2i Backup3.v2i

IF EXIST Backup1.v2i REN Backup1.v2i Backup2.v2i
REM Weekly_Backup_Job.v2i = whatever your backup gets named by Ghost.
IF EXIST Weekly_Backup_Job.v2i REN Weekly_Backup_Job.v2i Backup1.v2i

EXIT

 

 

[AllenM]

HI S3NTYN3L,

 

Thanks for the update. The naming convention used by Ghost I am sure was just an implementation choice.

 

I don't think it is advised to do renaming like this through the batch file. If you delete recovery points outside of the direct Ghost interface it will mess up Ghost backup history. E.g., Ghost will not have accurate backup history.

 

Lets say you rename Backup2 to Backup3. Ghost will still think Backup2 is Backup2, it is not going to know you changed it. Then let's say you use Tools > Manage Backup Destination in Ghost to remove what it thinkgs is still Backup2  it will not remove the one you intended.

 

Further, all of these recovery points you have removed are most likely still in Ghost backup history unless you go in through Tools > Manage Backup Destination and remove them from history. Take a look at your backup history and check but let's say you created 10 backups over time but because of your renaming you only have 4 backups actually present. Backup history will likely still be tracking all 10. I just ran this test to confirm.

 

Ultimately you have confused Ghost and the association between the recovery point to filename that Ghost thinks is valid is now broken.

 

I don't recommend doing this. This may seem to work OK for you but trust me, Ghost is confused because of reasons mentioned earlier.

 

Also, how do you have Ghost configured for number of recovery points to allow? Have you removed this? E.g., Is Ghost still doing secondary management for number of recovery points? If this number is still set Ghost will likely remove the wrong recovery point because it knows nothing about the renaming you done.

 

It is of course your choice whether to do this or not but I think you should let Ghost manage this as designed.

 

Thanks

Allen

 

P.S. I can't help being curious why the naming convention creates a problem for you.

[Pippin]

Hello,

 

I was skimming thru this thread because I had tried to delete or "purge" some files from my back up I am getting close to my limit. The help menu tells you a specific way to delete the files but the problem is - it cannot be done. It says to check the little boxes to the left of the files you want to purge. But there are no little boxes to check. So I couldn't do it. 

But now after reading parts of this thread I'm wondering if it's automatically done? Should I just let Norton do the purging when it's gets to be full? Or do I have to do it mannually?

 

thanks

I have Ghost - newest version

and Windows XP Pro SP3 

[AllenM]

Hi Pippin,

 

Welcome to the Norton Community.

 

Are you referring to file and folder backups or image backups (Backup my Computer)? Do the backup files you are referring to end in .v2i or .fbf?

 

Can you refer to a specific page in the Ghost user guide which talks about this?

 

Thanks

Allen

[Pippin]

Oh  Geez  Allen, I don't know now!   I thought I did but your answer has kinda confused  me.     I think I'm talking about files/folders.  I set up the backup to back specific folders.

However there are pictures and other files inside those folders.  I'm so very new at this back up stuff - I really don't have a clue what I'm doing.

 

I've never seen those formats before so I'm assuming they are back up file extensions?

I just went to look at my files to see which of those formats are showing. But I can't view the individual logs.... All I can see is a list of the previous back up dates. No file extensions and now, I'm even more confused because I don't know if I've activated my storage. I thought I did that when I started this service a week ago - now  I'm not so sure because there was a link there that said 'activate your storage'. Does Ghost back up your files even if you haven't activated your storage yet? Is that why it's called Ghost?...

 

As far as the page # from the help menu - I don't know. I pulled up the help menu.(on site help)I typed in 'purge files' in search box (or index box) and got a page that had the instructions on how to purge your files. The instructions said to click a little box that's to the letft of the file category. There are no little boxes to the left of the file categories.

 

Now, I can't even find that page...... This is the most unfriendly user-site I've seen in a very long time. It's extremely "busy" with too many choices. The links don't bring you to the info you're asking for. When you find a link with the subject you're looking for and click on it. It just sends you to a page that has what seems like  another 100 categories except the one I just clicked the link for?

It boggles my mind! the anti-virus program interface is great - but this site is overwhelming & I can't find anything.  

 

What did you mean by image back ups? 

I hope It's ok to ask for help in this thread? sorry for troubling you.

Thanks,

Pippin 

[AllenM]

---

Pippin wrote:

 

I've never seen those formats before so I'm assuming they are back up file extensions?

I just went to look at my files to see which of those formats are showing. But I can't view the individual logs.... All I can see is a list of the previous back up dates. No file extensions and now, I'm even more confused because I don't know if I've activated my storage. I thought I did that when I started this service a week ago - now  I'm not so sure because there was a link there that said 'activate your storage'. Does Ghost back up your files even if you haven't activated your storage yet? Is that why it's called Ghost?...

  

What did you mean by image back ups? 

---

Hi Pippin,

 

We'll try to help you through this but first I need to ascertain what software  we're dealing with.

 

What you are describing does not sound like Ghost. It sounds like perhaps Norton360? How are you doing the backup? What software are you loading to do this?

 

It would help if you could attach a screen shot of what this looks like, perhaps showing the list of "previous backup dates" or the part about "activating storage".

 

You can do a screen shot by pressing Alt+Print Screen on your keyboard while the window in question is active. Then bring up Microsoft Paint and do a Ctrl+V. Then save the image as a JPG image on your desktop. You can then attach to your post on the forum here by clicking on the  symbol at the top of the reply editor.

 

Thanks

Allen

[S3NTYN3L]

 

---

AllenM wrote:

 

Also, how do you have Ghost configured for number of recovery points to allow? Have you removed this? E.g., Is Ghost still doing secondary management for number of recovery points?

 

<snip>

 

P.S. I can't help being curious why the naming convention creates a problem for you.

---

 

 

Yes, I've removed the limit within Ghost.

The naming Ghost defaults to is an issue because I dislike it.

I want my oldest backup named as such not just Backup001, Backup002, etc.

 

Besides, as I said earlier, Ghost removes the backup containing the lowest numer appended to it (if a limit is set within Ghost itself) and just adds the next highest number.

 

For example;

You have Backup001 thru Backup004 sitting in the folder.

Ghost comes along and creates Backup005.

After validation of 005, Ghost removes 001 but doesn't rename the other files accordingly.

So, each time a new file is created, the number gets larger. e.g.; Backup006, Backup007, etc, etc...

 

 

 

The software Pippen uses was in his first post in this thread.

---

AllenM wrote:

 

We'll try to help you through this but first I need to ascertain what software  we're dealing with.

 

What you are describing does not sound like Ghost. It sounds like perhaps Norton360?

---

Pippin wrote:

thanks

I have Ghost - newest version

and Windows XP Pro SP3 

---

 

[AllenM]

Hi S3NTYN3L,

 

Thanks for the update. As I mentioned it is of course your choice. I only let you know that this is going to cause Ghost to be confused and the backup history most likely will not be accurate. If you are willing to live with that, no problem. My responsibility was to let you know the negative aspects of using this method.

 

As for me asking again what software Pippen had, it was because what was being described did not sound like Ghost so I am asking to confirm which is what I should do in this situation. And also asked for a screen shot so that I can provide better guidance.

 

Thanks

Allen