Startup123,
When an image is restored I want the sectors to go back in the same order as they were in the original partition. Sector based restores are good. For example, certain defragging apps arrange sectors so that boot files, system files, file access, free space, frequently used files, etc, are in an optimal position. I don't want this messed up when an image is restored.
Brian, since users like you like the way it currently works and users in my situation will like how older versions work, Ghost will be a better program if it keep both options available.
But anyway, the way you explained it will be very good for me too if I can find a defragging app like that to move all these files on my hard drive in an optimal position.
So let me try to clarify my problem and ask a some questions
Ghost can't restore my recovery point on a smaller hard drive because the recovery point contains the empty sectors between my data and this requires larger disk space.
So, the solution is to defrag the drive. Is that correct?
The drive can be defragged successfully only when it is not active system drive.
Problem, doing this with Disk Defragmenter of Windows 7 is unsuccessful. The drive is inactive but Disk Defragmenter reports 10 unmovable files and the spread stays at 800GB.
Next step, find a defragging program that can do a better job than Disk Defragmenter of Windows 7.
Am I on the correct path or I should be doing other things?
If I'm on the correct path I need to find out what programs are capable of defragging my data which is on a RAID hard drive.
You help is very much appreciated
edit: Am I correct to think that partition resizing program can't help before my data is deragged properly? So, first defrag and then resize the partition?
Let me try to answer some of these questions:
Startup123 wrote:Brian, since users like you like the way it currently works and users in my situation will like how older versions work, Ghost will be a better program if it keep both options available.
But anyway, the way you explained it will be very good for me too if I can find a defragging app like that to move all these files on my hard drive in an optimal position.
So let me try to clarify my problem and ask a some questions
Ghost can't restore my recovery point on a smaller hard drive because the recovery point contains the empty sectors between my data and this requires larger disk space.
It's not so much because of the empy sectors, it's the location of the existing files. Say you had a file that was located at the starting point of 500GB, that file prevents you from restoring to a smaller drive so we need to move that file, and all the files before the 250GB mark in order to be able to restore it onto a smaller drive.
So, the solution is to defrag the drive. Is that correct?
No, The solution is to move the files to the beginning of the drive. Doing a defrag is just one way of moving files although it's the easiest to try because every version of windows has a defragger.
The drive can be defragged successfully only when it is not active system drive.
No, the drive can still be defragged but the active system can't move system files or files in use.
Problem, doing this with Disk Defragmenter of Windows 7 is unsuccessful. The drive is inactive but Disk Defragmenter reports 10 unmovable files and the spread stays at 800GB.
Beats me, maybe the defrag in windows 7 is a little stupid. Maybe it "sees" system files and doesn't know they are for another operating system. Or maybe it goes by file names and excludes things like pagefile.sys without checking to see if they are really in use. It's a free tool, sometimes you get what you pay for. If MS included a really good defragger I'm sure someone would sue them.
Next step, find a defragging program that can do a better job than Disk Defragmenter of Windows 7.
Am I on the correct path or I should be doing other things?
That was actully another option I been thinking about but I recomended that you try Brians suggestion of using BING first.
It can resize partitions like the program I suggested and might be able to work for you.
If I'm on the correct path I need to find out what programs are capable of defragging my data which is on a RAID hard drive.
Possibly, but try using Brians program to resize it first.
You help is very much appreciated
edit: Am I correct to think that partition resizing program can't help before my data is deragged properly? So, first defrag and then resize the partition?
No, a partition resizing program will move the files to accomodate the smaller partition. Thats what it's made to do.
I agree with Dave.
Defragging is always mentioned in this context of restoring to a smaller HD. But I suspect that it only occasionally works because it can't move much data "to the left". But an offline defrag may work. There is a trial of PerfectDisk Professional here...
http://www.perfectdisk.com/products/home-perfectdisk11-professional/learn-more
Run a Boot Time scan. You will see the before and after results in the Analyze Drive Map graphic.
Let me ask you a question please
You say that this was or is a RAID. How did you add it to a system as a slave to try to defrag it with windows 7?
Did you somehow add the entire array to a winows 7 system?
Or was it a redundant setup where you could just use one drive and you have a second additional drive that has not been installed to the windows 7 system.
I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's still RAID or back to a single drive.
Dave
Forget my suggestion of PerfectDisk. It will put the page file in the middle of the partition.
Try BING.
Thanks a lot guys. Your answers helped a lot with understanding the solution.
I'll check BING
This tell you how to create the CD.
double click makedisk.exe, next
dot in I accept the agreement, next
no tick for Registration, next
dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
dot in VESA Video, next
dot in Partition Work (Don't put a dot in Normal), next
don't choose any Default Device Options (if necessary, these can be chosen in BING), next
leave Registration strings blank, next
select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
Finish
Startup123,
A resize is easy but ask questions if needed. Choose 240,000 MB as the new size. If you only have 100 MB to move it won't take long.
I think BING works with hardware and firmware RAID, not software.
Edit.... That doesn't make sense. If it's a Vista partition it will contain a lot more than 100 MB.
If you meant 100 GB the resize may take over an hour. It depends on your hardware.
Brian, thank you very much for the simple instructions with using BING, they saved me the time to read the manual and figure it out.
The resizing of the partition with BOOT IT N G worked like a charm and the former 800GB partition is now 230GB. Vista still boots and runs from it without any problems. And I thought that will be the end fo my problems but unfortunately I'm stuck with another one.
After backing up the new 230GB partition with Ghost and restoring it on another hard drive, I can't boot from it. Everything seems OK, all files are there and the two (source and destination) look identical but I can't boot from the hard drive with the restoral. I tried again and again backing up and restoring with all possible options and still no luck. I checked in the options Active for booting, restore signature, copy MBR but these didn't help. I unplugged physically all other hard drives to stop the computer starting from other hard dirves and Windows showed this message:
file\windows\system32\windload.exe
status:0xc000000e
info: the selected entry could not be loaded because the application is missing or corrupt
I made several backups and restorals with verify for errors checked but at the end I can't boot from the restoral and I ran out of ideas. I can boot from that hard drive with Vista or Win7 if I install them directly.
Startup123,
Without going into details, that should be an easy fix. It is a BCD error. Do this and let us know....
Thanks Brian,
I will check the link.
However I already got it working by using Disk Copy feature of Ghost installation on the hard drive not from the Ghost CD (I didn't see Disk Copy option on the CD).
I just finished this and the computer booted from the restoral which is great. But now the system disk is with the letter D and the original which is not active any more is still with the letter C. I've never seen that before and wonder if this is OK . Before when I start from different systems on different hard drives, Windows always automatically assigns the letter C on the system disk and the other disks got different drive letters depending on which hard drive I choose to boot from.
Startup123 wrote:. But now the system disk is with the letter D and the original which is not active any more is still with the letter C. I've never seen that before and wonder if this is OK .
No, it is not OK. Do you have both HDs in your computer? Try removing each (one at a time) and see what happens.
The second rule of cloning states...
"do not let the new OS see the old OS partition the first time it boots"
It sounds like you broke this rule. This is what happens with Win7.
HD0 is the new HD. HD1 is the old HD.
The desktop is that of the old HD. It is part of C: drive
In Disk management the partition on HD0 is D: drive letter and it is System, Boot, Page File, Active, Crash Dump, Primary
In Disk management the partition on HD1 is Active, Primary Partition. It is C: drive
In my limited experience, neither HD will boot on its own.
Yes Brian, you described it exactly the way it behaves on my computer. Thanks for letting me know the second rule, please tell me abut the other rules too.
As you said, both drives (original and clone) now can't work without each other. When only one of the drives is plugged, during the booting Windows Boot Manager screen appears with these two choices:
Microsoft Windows Vista
and
Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008/Windows 7
I tried both and didn't see any difference, the booting proceeds as usual, the Vista logo shows and plays the sound, then at the splash screen, instead of saying Welcome it says "Preparing your desktop" and it stays there forever. I even let it stay like that overnight hoping its taking time fixing itself but this morning the screen showed only the mouse cursor that I can move around on a blue background. I pressed Ctrl+Alt+Delete and I got to the menu where I can switch users and run the Task Manager and I saw that all processes and services are running fine but that's all I can do.
Now when both drives are plugged, after choosing one of them to boot from, the other always get the letter C. Here's a screen capture of this:
The funny thing is that so far everything seems to be working fine with this weird setup and If I wasn't aware about it I would have thought everything is normal. But I feel very uneasy doing anything with the computer in such state.
I'm not sure how to proceed after all this. Should I recover the original form a recovery point and delete the clone to start everything from a clean state or there is something better?
Startup123,
We can fix both HDs fairly easily. Standby until I get some other things organized.
These are the kiss of death screens.
Thanks a lot Brian, you are a life saviour
Startup123,
http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm
In this web site, Dan Goodell describes the rules and how to fix the OS if you have broken the rules. We are going to use a variant of Method #3.
Let's deal with the 250 GB HD first. Disconnect the 1 TB HD and don't reconnect it until I think it's appropriate. Connect the 250 GB HD to the HD0 port on the motherboard.
Boot from your BING CD and zero the Disk Signature by using Clear Sig.
the BootIt NG CD boots to the Work with Partitions window
Using the radio buttons on the left side of the Work with Partitions window, select the appropriate hard drive. (It should be HD 0)
click the "View MBR" button.
click the "Clear Sig" button. Then click OK on the Notice.
click the "Apply" button.
click the "View MBR" button again and confirm the number in the left bottom corner is 0x00000000
click Cancel
click Close on the "Work with Partitions" window
Still in BING, fix the BCD store. Be careful as you will probably have a double lot of items. You only need to fix the 4 outlined in this...
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=318
The OS should work now. We'll fix the Microsoft Boot menu shortly. Boot into Win7.
Run msconfig. Click the Boot tab. Highlight and delete the boot item you don't need. Click OK and reboot Win7.
Is everything OK?
Worked great so far. You rock Brian
The only thing is the little Windows logo that shows the boot drive in My Computer folder is not there yet. And after the boot the the system showed this message that the device driver was installed requiring restart.
I haven't restarted yet and will wait to hear from you.
By the way in my previous attempts when trying Ghost restorals, every time I delete a drive and restore, after boot the system always installs a device driver. I hope this is normal.
Startup123,
That's fine. Restart and get back to me.
