NIS 2011 *Constant* CPU Activity

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
21
huwyngr wrote:

I had a reply from another support person on laptops, not the specific Toshiba guy, who says he runs a tosh without a battery -- in his case there is something wrong with the battery monitor and it rapid discharges the battery --

 

That's not bad life for a battery and from what you say the CPU could be a standard, non-laptop version and so heavy on power and so on heat!

 

The spec says:

 

CPU/Chipset Information

 

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor with HT Technology 3.2GHz4

 

512KB L2 cache integrated on die

 

800MHz Processor System Bus

 

I still think it worth checking the Power Management settings to make sure they are on High Peformance when the battery is not in place.

 

Have you checked recently to see if there any Tosh updates for our model -- I see one for the ConfigFree Utility

This version is updated to support Windows XP SP2  which might be worth making sure you have it plus some BIOS updates. I'm not sure where PowerManagement would fit in.

Yes, I had been having some heat problems.  Computer would just shut down by itself.  Cleaned the fans and heat sinks.  Things seem to be OK now.  Guess 3.2 GHz is quite a load for a single cpu, huh -- even with 3-fans, etc.

 

 

Toshb Power Mgmt has "Full Power" checked when in AC mode.  But, think I'll wait on doing any updates.  Things are working pretty well right now.  "Sleeping dogs lie" and all that. <G>

 

Hugh, I really do appreciate all your help.  And, same, to all the others.

Kindest Regards,

Robby

22

That's another possibility since you mention heat problems and shutting down. Some motherboards monitor heat and will slow down the CPU if it is overheating so your slowness may be due to overheating enough to slow down the CPU but not enough to close down completely -- IOW the heat monitor is working!

 

Someone is sending you a message -- time for a new PC ....... <g>

23
huwyngr wrote:

That's another possibility since you mention heat problems and shutting down. Some motherboards monitor heat and will slow down the CPU if it is overheating so your slowness may be due to overheating enough to slow down the CPU but not enough to close down completely -- IOW the heat monitor is working!

 

Someone is sending you a message -- time for a new PC ....... <g>

Yeah, maybe you're right.  But, kinda on a shoe-string budget right now though.  So, gotta make what I got work as best can.

 

Would like to get some s/w to monitor cpu temp.  Tried "mobile meter."  Didn't work.  Then it crashed my system (Windows: "The system has recovered from a serious error....").

You guys/girls know of any such s/w that would work for my system?  And/or is this info in my BIOS?  Not too knowledgeable on such things, and a bit wary to mess w/my BIOS, but..

 

BTW, Hugh -- my Control Panel/System -- under Processors shows (2) *separate* lines each line listing: "Intel (R) Pentium (R) 4 CPU 3.2Ghz."  Then, in Task Manager, under Performance/CPU History, it gives View option as "One graph per CPU" or "One graph, All CPU's."  The View for "per CPU" shows (2) similar, but *distinctly* different, cpu history patterns.  Hmmm.

Why would this kind of "dual-core" information be presented, if only (1) cpu?  Maybe it *is* dual core?  A "late model" version of this system, maybe?

 

And, as for hi-temps slowing my cpu(s) down -- both Task Mgr and Norton Tasks show (them) running at up to 99% at times (though mostly around 50%).

 

Again, tks for all the help.  Appreciate your indulging my Q's on this (now) somewhat "OT" issue.

Robby

24

I know the feeling ... when I see netbooks at Walmart for $248 .... because everyone is buying $500 tablets .... I wish ..

 

You mentioned and Tosh does that your CPU has hyperthreading so that may be why it shows some aspects of multicore?

 

Motherboard temerature monitoring is often a part of the utility package that goes with the motherboard for BIOS and chipsets etc -- it is with the motherboards I buy like ASUS but with your laptop it would be from Toshiba if there were anything.

 

You might run Speccy on your laptop and see what it says about the details of the CPU -- on my machine it tells me all sorts of stuff about steppings ..... and since there is a BIOS update for your laptop that mentions dealing with later versions of the CPU it might be good to install. I don't think it gives temperatures but you'll be amazed what it and Belarc Advisor can tell you about your machine and in the case of Belarc, it's software!

 

There is a temperature monitor I used to use -- if no-one jumps in with a suggestion I'll see if I can find a link. HAve a look at this article: http://www.tech-faq.com/how-to-monitor-cpu-temperature.html which is recent and interesting -- Motherboard Monitor was the one I was thinking of but I see it is no longer updated but you might try the SpeedFan referred to but whether they work may depend on how Toshiba build their dedicated motherboards .....

 

MAybe a moderator would like to move all this over to Tech Outpost  here which is designed for this sort of discussion .... If he does it will leave a tracer/link here.

25

Hyperthreading CPU's always show up as two CPU's in Device Manager etc., as they are logical CPU's and they are handled as physical CPU's by Windows in most aspects.

 

I've seen an HP laptop like yours a few days ago, but with a Pentium 4, 2,4 Mhz CPU. A real heat creator and fans running loud a lot of  times, even after cleaning the vents. It still runs reasonably fast, but sometimes very sluggish, which is caused by throtlling because of higher temperatures, above 60 degrees for the CPU. On that, i agree with Hugh.

The higher end Pentium's 4, like your's were even more famous for creating heat.

 

I've used Speedfan for a while. It's a nice utility, but a bit hard to configure right away.

There is a simple and easy to use program, called HWMonitor :

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

It gives you just the key info on temperatures, voltages and speed of fans.

 

So, keep the vents clean for your system and it might run better. A can of compressed air might help you there.

 

BTW : did you ever try uninstall --> NRT ---> reinstall NIS, to solve your NIS problem? It mght really help you, especially if you upgraded from an earlier version of NIS (V2009/V2010).

 

 

26

Thanks hvsgel -- nothing like the voice of experience .......

27
hvgsel wrote:

Hyperthreading CPU's always show up as two CPU's in Device Manager etc., as they are logical CPU's and they are handled as physical CPU's by Windows in most aspects.

 

I've seen an HP laptop like yours a few days ago, but with a Pentium 4, 2,4 Mhz CPU. A real heat creator and fans running loud a lot of  times, even after cleaning the vents. It still runs reasonably fast, but sometimes very sluggish, which is caused by throtlling because of higher temperatures, above 60 degrees for the CPU. On that, i agree with Hugh.

The higher end Pentium's 4, like your's were even more famous for creating heat.

 

I've used Speedfan for a while. It's a nice utility, but a bit hard to configure right away.

There is a simple and easy to use program, called HWMonitor :

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

It gives you just the key info on temperatures, voltages and speed of fans.

 

So, keep the vents clean for your system and it might run better. A can of compressed air might help you there.

 

BTW : did you ever try uninstall --> NRT ---> reinstall NIS, to solve your NIS problem? It mght really help you, especially if you upgraded from an earlier version of NIS (V2009/V2010).

 

 

Interesting about the HT.  Cpu performance graphs in Task Mgr sure look different, for it to just be one cpu.  The miracle of HT.

Not having much fan activity since I cleaned all that.  And, definitely no shutdowns since then.  For sure want to get a cpu temp monitor.  And, I'll try your suggestions.  Was surprised there is nothing in the BIOS on temps.  But, as Hugh pointed-out, there is an update on this.  I'll try that later.

 

Did uninstalls/NRT/reinstalls on NIS 2011 and GHOST 14 today.  Things went well.  Have not had time to check and see if NIS is doing its "cpu hog" trick.  Or, if GHOST will now do "incremental" rp's.  Will let you all know how it goes.

 

Really appreciate your input, hv.

 

Robby

28
Robby wrote:
hvgsel wrote:

Hyperthreading CPU's always show up as two CPU's in Device Manager etc., as they are logical CPU's and they are handled as physical CPU's by Windows in most aspects.

 

I've seen an HP laptop like yours a few days ago, but with a Pentium 4, 2,4 Mhz CPU. A real heat creator and fans running loud a lot of  times, even after cleaning the vents. It still runs reasonably fast, but sometimes very sluggish, which is caused by throtlling because of higher temperatures, above 60 degrees for the CPU. On that, i agree with Hugh.

The higher end Pentium's 4, like your's were even more famous for creating heat.

 

I've used Speedfan for a while. It's a nice utility, but a bit hard to configure right away.

There is a simple and easy to use program, called HWMonitor :

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

It gives you just the key info on temperatures, voltages and speed of fans.

 

So, keep the vents clean for your system and it might run better. A can of compressed air might help you there.

 

BTW : did you ever try uninstall --> NRT ---> reinstall NIS, to solve your NIS problem? It mght really help you, especially if you upgraded from an earlier version of NIS (V2009/V2010).

 

 

Interesting about the HT.  Cpu performance graphs in Task Mgr sure look different, for it to just be one cpu.  The miracle of HT.

Not having much fan activity since I cleaned all that.  And, definitely no shutdowns since then.  For sure want to get a cpu temp monitor.  And, I'll try your suggestions.  Was surprised there is nothing in the BIOS on temps.  But, as Hugh pointed-out, there is an update on this.  I'll try that later.

 

Did uninstalls/NRT/reinstalls on NIS 2011 and GHOST 14 today.  Things went well.  Have not had time to check and see if NIS is doing its "cpu hog" trick.  Or, if GHOST will now do "incremental" rp's.  Will let you all know how it goes.

 

Really appreciate your input, hv.

 

Robby

Original problem -- NIS 2011 hogging cpu ( and unstoppable), after about 5-10 minutes of Idle Time -- may be solved.  I let NIS sit in Idle Time Out for around 1-hour.  No problems at all.  Cpu stayed at around 5% (NIS) or so.  Also, GHOST now does "Incremental" recovery points (at least it's done 2 so far, OK).  So, looks like the Windows Add/Remover uninstalls, then NRT (4x w/restarts), and then reinstalls (plus lengthy LU's) worked.

 

[But beware, once GHOST 14 was uninstalled, it does NOT recognize the last good recovery point made (prior to the uninstall) on the backup disk -- though it shows that space as used, on the backup disk.  You can delete this "used" area on that disk though, and do another full recovery point.  Yet... you're "At Risk" for a while.]

On the cpu temp monitor s/w issue:  Still can't get anything to work.  Downloaded and installed the latest BIOS from Toshiba (a 1-05-05 release date -- so, not very recent).  Then tried Mobile Meter, HWMonitor and SpeedFan.  None picked up any temperatures for my cpu.  Bummer.  Guess the cpu has no digital readout on this.  [Sure like SpeedFan though.  Got lots of bell & whistles.  I like that. <G>]

Really do appreciate all the help you guys have provided.

 

Robby

29

Hi Robby,

 

Glad, removal and reinstall worked out. Ghost problem might be caused, because with NRT you maybe remove a database which contains backup descriptions.Does Ghost have one, i don't know?

I use Paragon HDM, where all data of a backup is contained in the backup directory itself, so it's also readable on anotther system.

 

Your laptop may come out of a generation, where manufacturers like Tosh and HP, did not want you to readout temps and such, although they should be available through sensors. They simply did not make them available in the BIOS those days, even on their desktops.

 

So you have to trust your feeling and hearing from now on : Once the fans begin to spin more than usual, it's time to clean the vents.

 

One last resort MAYBE : download a trial version of AIDA64 Extreme Edition from here :

http://www.aida64.com/downloads

It's a payed utlitiy which gives a lot of system info and it let's you monitor a lot as well. Rather expensive at first with a reasonable yearly extension fee to use the latest version. You can keep on using the latest version you downloaded before extension came up, without restrictions.

There's is even a free version of it, then still called Everest Home Edition. It's rather old, but it will read out your system, because it's from those years :

http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html

 

Success, Hugo

 

30

Robby --

 

I've asked over in Toshiba about temp monitoring on your P25 -- I'll let you know if there's any reply.

31
hvgsel wrote:

Hi Robby,

 

Glad, removal and reinstall worked out. Ghost problem might be caused, because with NRT you maybe remove a database which contains backup descriptions.Does Ghost have one, i don't know?

I use Paragon HDM, where all data of a backup is contained in the backup directory itself, so it's also readable on anotther system.

 

Your laptop may come out of a generation, where manufacturers like Tosh and HP, did not want you to readout temps and such, although they should be available through sensors. They simply did not make them available in the BIOS those days, even on their desktops.

 

So you have to trust your feeling and hearing from now on : Once the fans begin to spin more than usual, it's time to clean the vents.

 

One last resort MAYBE : download a trial version of AIDA64 Extreme Edition from here :

http://www.aida64.com/downloads

It's a payed utlitiy which gives a lot of system info and it let's you monitor a lot as well. Rather expensive at first with a reasonable yearly extension fee to use the latest version. You can keep on using the latest version you downloaded before extension came up, without restrictions.

There's is even a free version of it, then still called Everest Home Edition. It's rather old, but it will read out your system, because it's from those years :

http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html

 

Success, Hugo

 


Tks, Hugo.  Little short on "coins" right now, for the paid version of AIDA64 Extreme.  But, might try free one.  Got a feeling none of this is going to work though.  No digital read on cpu temp.

So, yes... will have to rely on instincts/perceptions for temp monitor.  Yet... tricky, b/c fans come on -- sometimes at high levels -- but cpu history (via Tsk Mgr) doesn't hardly show anything.

And, on the BIOS:  Very strange thing happened when I installed the "updated" BIOS yesterday.  Everything's going along well.  Seeing an install screen and progress, etc.  Then -- just sudden and abruptly -- computer turns itself off.  Seemingly in the middle of the BIOS installation.  WTF!!?? I said.  I'm screwed.  Computer wouldn't boot for anything.  Finally, after many tries, it came to life.  Whew.

I've long suspected a sophisticated root kit is on this system.  You (or anyone) think maybe it caused the shutdown -- b/c the rootkit is in the MBR area and the BIOS installation was messing w/that?  Should I do a "New Post" on this, in the Forum?

Again, appreciate all your help and input.

 

Robby

32
huwyngr wrote:

Robby --

 

I've asked over in Toshiba about temp monitoring on your P25 -- I'll let you know if there's any reply.

Tks, Hugh.  Will look fwd to your input on this.

 

Roby

33

Hi Robby,

 

I haven't got an answer on Toshiba yet on the specific question of whether your TOshiba model does have temp sensors or not -- I think it must since it does shut down on overheating but whether they are accessible or not I don't yet know.

 

I have had a couple of suggestions on utilities but the first one doesn't deal with Pentium 4's that yours has.

 

The other suggestion was to download the free trial of the SIW utility -- that's the link to their website but I also went to Portable Freeware Collection and see they have a link to a fully free for personal use freestanding portable version.

 

SIW PortableApps

This is not the latest version of the Installer version which is shown on their main pages but for which there was no download button but if you look at the changes in the latest version they won't affect you or I.

 

I've downloaded and run it in the portable version and it is amazing what it finds!

 

It took me a while to find Temperature information but eventually I found it under Hardware / Sensors although it did not give actual core temps for my AMD dual core CPU -- just showed 0° C <s>

 

It's overkill for what one normally needs but if you want to play you could try it and also see if the Installed version gives more useful information like showing the temperature as it changes which I think the portable may not.

 

The main message from Toshiba so far is if it's running don't worry about temperatures but if it keeps freezing then consider whether a cooling pad is a good idea!

34
huwyngr wrote:

Hi Robby,

 

I haven't got an answer on Toshiba yet on the specific question of whether your TOshiba model does have temp sensors or not -- I think it must since it does shut down on overheating but whether they are accessible or not I don't yet know.

 

I have had a couple of suggestions on utilities but the first one doesn't deal with Pentium 4's that yours has.

 

The other suggestion was to download the free trial of the SIW utility -- that's the link to their website but I also went to Portable Freeware Collection and see they have a link to a fully free for personal use freestanding portable version.

 

SIW PortableApps

This is not the latest version of the Installer version which is shown on their main pages but for which there was no download button but if you look at the changes in the latest version they won't affect you or I.

 

I've downloaded and run it in the portable version and it is amazing what it finds!

 

It took me a while to find Temperature information but eventually I found it under Hardware / Sensors although it did not give actual core temps for my AMD dual core CPU -- just showed 0° C <s>

 

It's overkill for what one normally needs but if you want to play you could try it and also see if the Installed version gives more useful information like showing the temperature as it changes which I think the portable may not.

 

The main message from Toshiba so far is if it's running don't worry about temperatures but if it keeps freezing then consider whether a cooling pad is a good idea!

Tks a bunch, Hugh.  I d-l'd it and will try later.  But...in running SpeedFan and getting a system analysis from it, there does not show to be any digital readout of cpu temp, though it does show a temp monitor -- guess it's analog.  If so, don't think any monitoring s/w will be able to detect cpu temps.

But, more-and-more I'm thinking my shutdowns may also be rootkit related.  Guess you saw my above post about how the computer shutdown during install of new BIOS.  Don't think that was cpu-temp related.  Think it was the rootkit.  Many other suspicious things over the last 3-years or so, too.

Recently, in the course of NRT and reinstalling NIS 2011, I had (2) separate very weird things happen.  And, both times, Norton came back and directed me to the Norton Power Eraser -- as if to say, "these are highly suspicious activities that indicate a rootkit may be present."

Also, some good news... just ran a Full System Scan with NIS 2011 (after NRT and reinstall of NIS).  Wow.  Now that's fast -- 1-hour, 40-minutes.  Ran the same scan, before reinstall -- took 6-hours!!

And, during that scan time, I was monitoring cpu usage with Tsk Mgr -- had long periods where it was in the 60-95% range.  Fans were all running (all 3), but no problems on shutdown, etc.  Again, another reason why I think some (a lot?) of my shutdown problems (and many other things) is due to the rootkit.

I'm worried about using NPE though.  From what I read it can disable your system, if you choose to quarantine the wrong files.  And, it seems that some of these recent, sophisticated rootkits have "poison pill" protection.  They have modified/corrupted Windows essential files to an extent that -- although they work -- if you try and remove them, your system won't start, etc.

 

So, for the meantime, guess I'll just live w/what I got.  Things are working pretty well.  And, much of the time this rootkit seems rather benign.

 

Would welcome any thoughts you, Hugo, or others might have on this.

 

Robby

35

Hang on for better guidance than I could give you especially on rootkits ....

36
huwyngr wrote:

Hang on for better guidance than I could give you especially on rootkits ....

'K. <G>

 

Robby

37

Hi Robby,

 

Do you remember the exact wording of the messages you got. It's important to write them down; do never ignore such messages!

 

You can start running NPE with a rootkit scan, but only scan!! Start NPE, check rootkit scan and restart your system when requested. After restart, let NPE run it's check and only look at the results. Uncheck evrything in the results and cancel.

Do NOT remove anything NPE finds, but report it here.

 

Two other programs with which you can scan (after eachother) :

a. Malwarebytes free version :

http://www.malwarebytes.org/products/malwarebytes_free

b. Superantispyware free Home version :

http://www.superantispyware.com/superantispyware.html

Both utilities have their own strong points, so maybe we find something.

 

1. Download both programs and install them.

2. Look under options if the program starts with Windows and uncheck this item.

2. First check for database and/or program updates.

3. Then run a full system scan with both and check the results.

4. In the results list, uncheck anything but cookies. Do not remove anything else yet.

5. Copy/paste the report file, which opens after the scans, here.

 

As soon as we know, what's wrong, we can direct you to a solution or more help.

 

Curious what comes out.

 

Hugo

 

 

38
hvgsel wrote:

Hi Robby,

 

Do you remember the exact wording of the messages you got. It's important to write them down; do never ignore such messages!

 

You can start running NPE with a rootkit scan, but only scan!! Start NPE, check rootkit scan and restart your system when requested. After restart, let NPE run it's check and only look at the results. Uncheck evrything in the results and cancel.

Do NOT remove anything NPE finds, but report it here.

 

Two other programs with which you can scan (after eachother) :

a. Malwarebytes free version :

http://www.malwarebytes.org/products/malwarebytes_free

b. Superantispyware free Home version :

http://www.superantispyware.com/superantispyware.html

Both utilities have their own strong points, so maybe we find something.

 

1. Download both programs and install them.

2. Look under options if the program starts with Windows and uncheck this item.

2. First check for database and/or program updates.

3. Then run a full system scan with both and check the results.

4. In the results list, uncheck anything but cookies. Do not remove anything else yet.

5. Copy/paste the report file, which opens after the scans, here.

 

As soon as we know, what's wrong, we can direct you to a solution or more help.

 

Curious what comes out.

 

Hugo

 

 


Hi Hugo,

 

Yes, I nearly always write those messages down (ex-engineer <g>).  Most recent ones were:

 

1. July 13, Wed, about 6p (MDT) -- Had done uninstalls/NRT/reinstalls of NIS 2011 and GHOST 14.  Was running LU for newly installed NIS 2011 (from my CD, not Norton d-l).  151MB LU d-l.  During this d-l, "One Click Support" page popped up in Firefox (5.0).  Said "Error 3039,65554 appears on my Norton 2011 product."  It wanted to run NPE.  I declined.  D-l went OK.  I continued on with task of finishing NIS reinstall.  Everything seemed OK -- then and at present.  Don't know why that error and NPE issue popped-up.


2.  July 14, Thur, about 8p (MDT) -- Had been using the newly installed NIS 2011 and doing Idle Time Out monitoring of cpu activity, for about 1-hour.  Things were OK -- no cpu hogging.  DSL cable disconnected all that time.  Then connected DSL and went to NIS for LU.  Almost immediately got a Windows error report that said NIS had to shutdown.  I sent error report to MS.  Then NIS COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED from the Sys Tray.  [This has happened before, on other NIS products -- though rarely.]

Firefox (5.0) came up, directing me to Norton "One Click Support" -- said "Error 8504,104 appears on my Norton 2011 product."   Eventually it wanted to run NPE.  I x-d out and did a Win restart.  NIS came back up OK in Sys Tray.  LU ran OK.

______________________________

 

Way too many other things -- over the last 3-4 years -- to relate, about suspicious activity.  And, around 2-3 years ago  I pursued an intensive effort to try and find a rootkit problem on this computer.  Had quite a bit of help from the Forum, here.  Ran MalwareBytes, etc.  Nothing found.  Ran several specialized rootkit detectors.  They all either crashed my system, or hung it up.  Never got any reports back from those tools.  Strange.

 

I did, just now, d-l SuperAntiSpyware.  Already have MalwareBytes, but need to get latest version.  Also, have NPE.  But... I'm reluctant to use the programs right now.  I *have* to have access to my computer to do some very important work, over the next several weeks.  And, cannot risk it being "disabled" by any of these programs.

 

So, let me get back to you (and others) a little later.  And, I'll especially pursue this if I start having more "strange" troubles, like I've had in the past.

Really, really appreciate all your efforts here. You guys (and girls) are a blessing to have around.

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Robby

 



39

Robby -- If you have not installed it yet I see in various places somewhat negative reports on SAS referring to invasive behavior even on the free version and being extremely difficult to uninstall cleanly.

 

I don't see the same on Malwarebytes however.

 

FWIW

40
huwyngr wrote:

Robby -- If you have not installed it yet I see in various places somewhat negative reports on SAS referring to invasive behavior even on the free version and being extremely difficult to uninstall cleanly.

 

I don't see the same on Malwarebytes however.

 

FWIW

Tks for heads-up, Hugo.  No, haven't installed it yet.  Just d-l'd setup .exe.  Maybe I'll avoid that one.  My real hopes are in NPE.  Just have to wait awhile before I try it.

 

Robby