Norton 360 and Norton in general

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
1

Gentlemen,

 

This seems to be the only way to get feedback to Norton, I notice you don't supply a feedback email address on any of your web pages. Let me start by saying I am not a fan of Norton. I have bought dozens of copies of your products over the years, but about 2 years ago I decided I had had enough. Norton was, at one time, king of the AV hill. But I feel you got fat and lazy, and the competition crept up and overtook you.

 

I am still wondering why you even have a market. Microsoft should have hardened windows decades ago; so I have to keep paying a yearly fee to keep my OS running. How did Bill Gates miss this revenue stream? I have more $ in Norton disks on some of my systems than I have $ in the OS.

 

I guess the breaking point for me came 2 years ago. I ran a Norton AV scan, and immediately thereafter ran a competitive product AV scan. It found about a dozen issues Norton missed. This told me Norton was leaving me unprotected on at least some issues. (Yes, I did update virus signatures before the scan). I looked at the stack of my old Norton disks and did a quick mental multiply to obtain how much I had spent over the years. It was not a happy number.

 

I also disliked the heavy handed panic messages that cropped up after I let my subscription expire, warning me my system was in mortal peril unless I immediately renewed my subscription. I had protection installed, it just was not Norton, and yes, it was working quite well. I finally got so tired of the Norton bleating that I ripped out every vestage of program that had Norton in the title. Issue solved.

 

Speaking of subscription renewal, I have tried it over the internet, and lost my investment; that is, I paid and received no update. My wife is slower, she has lost here update fee at least 3 times now, so I have forbidden her to use the internet to update her Norton protection. I have put other protection on her computer, but she started with Norton, and only feels safe if she has Norton installed. No amount of logic on my part can uproot her emotional attachment. So you internet renewal is broken, and there is no way to unwind it after you get my money. I will never purchase or renew over the internet again. Here is an idea: If you do not get confirmation of product installation within a month of purchase over the internet, you refund my money, no questions asked.

 

So after having my wife pleed for a solid week to put Norton back on her machine, I broke down and bought 360 Multi-device. I knew it would be a disaster, but you sometimes do irrational things just for some domestic peace.

 

I put Norton in my machine first, selected "run it" and waited, and waited, and waited. The only sign of activity was a pegged disk activity light. This is odd, because later in the install virtually everything has a progress bar associated with it. I was just about to kill the whole thing when it woke up and gave me an install screen. Note to Norton: Give the user something so they know the whole thing hasn't hung while booting up. It currently looks like just that.

 

OK, install proceeded smoothly until the product key. The data entry box on the screen has it broken into nice 4 digit fields. The key (which is not called anything on the provided card, so you just have to guess what the system is looking for); the key is one God-awful long string of numbers. OK it is a minor point, but my eyesight is not what it once was, and it makes key entry difficult. As an aside, why am I even dealing with a key? The internet is required to download product and virus definition updates. The package knows what it's serial number is. Why do I even need a product key? Just have the package phone home over the internet and validate itself. End of problem.

 

The install crashed. It asked to send the crash report to Symantec, but that crashed too. It offered to download an eraser file to clean up the mess. Bad choice of product name BTW... Most naive users would never run a product called "Eraser" on their machines. The Eraser download hung (or crashed, I don't remember), and no eraser was downloaded.

 

You may say my machine is clearly infected with so many viruses your product cannot safely install. Not so. I just completed a scan with Comodo AV, and one with Malware Bytes. Both come up clean. I am having no performance issues, and no operational anomolies with my machine (Windows XP, BTW). I was installing Norton on my machine before attempting it on my wife's computer. I always do this, I can screw up my machine and it will cost me a day to re-build it. If I screw up her machine I will never hear the end of it.

 

So where do I stand? I still do not like Norton (would you?) I have an essentially non-functional product, and am out $100. Just like internet renewal, only now it applies to the physical media too.

 

So what do I use? I like Comodo. They offer basic packages for free with upgrades to more functional offerings for $$. I find the free ones work just fine for me, and their firewall beats windows firewall hands down. I know you have a hard time competing with free, but you could adopt their marketing model and offer basic intro packages for free with upgrades. Of course, this assumes that your intro packages will install and run, not a given from my experience.

 

Malware bytes (not free) is good, especially if you have found a heavy-duty virus on your machine. Kasperski and Macafee I classify with Norton, though I did not have the install problems I have had with Norton. They both run, they both want to do too much, and they both seem to miss things that Comodo and Malware find.

 

If you do get a really nasty virus (and to date I have only had one of them), you will need to find a specific removal tool on the net. Just google the name of the virus (Any of the packages mentioned will tell you about the virus, even if they can't remove it.). A removal protocol just for that virus will be provided by the net. I have only had one that I couldn't remove with anything. I finally had to grab everything valuable off of the drive and erase it completely for a fresh install. This always works, but usually requires an entire day to complete, so it is the last resort.

 

I don't think you can get me away from the Comodo firewall, it is a great product and it is free. You might get me to use your AV, if it would co-exist on my machine with Comodo, but it would need to be more comprehensive than it currently is. I would need to feel that if my machine passed a Norton scan, I would simply not need to run any other scans, they would find nothing. I do not currently feel that way (and can demonstrate if need be). If your product cannot comprehensively find viruses on computers, then what do you hang your hat on? What is your value in the marketplace? OK, we remove SOME viruses. Pretty weak if you are asking for my money.

 

Most companies kill for customer feedback like this. While mostly negative, I do mention the positive emotional attachment some feel for Norton. From my perspective, it is about all you have going right now.

 

Hope this helps your product development, I really did like Norton and used it a lot 10 or 15 years ago. But it is 2012, technology moves on, and you don't seem to have moved with it. If anything, your install has gone backwards.

 

Cheers,

Pete

 

 

2

Dave,

 

"Here" is a place. "Hear" is to receive information, usually by sound,

but used colloquially in a general sense. Thought you might like to know.

 

Cheers,

Pete

3

Gentlemen,

 

This seems to be the only way to get feedback to Norton, I notice you don't supply a feedback email address on any of your web pages. Let me start by saying I am not a fan of Norton. I have bought dozens of copies of your products over the years, but about 2 years ago I decided I had had enough. Norton was, at one time, king of the AV hill. But I feel you got fat and lazy, and the competition crept up and overtook you.

 

I am still wondering why you even have a market. Microsoft should have hardened windows decades ago; so I have to keep paying a yearly fee to keep my OS running. How did Bill Gates miss this revenue stream? I have more $ in Norton disks on some of my systems than I have $ in the OS.

 

I guess the breaking point for me came 2 years ago. I ran a Norton AV scan, and immediately thereafter ran a competitive product AV scan. It found about a dozen issues Norton missed. This told me Norton was leaving me unprotected on at least some issues. (Yes, I did update virus signatures before the scan). I looked at the stack of my old Norton disks and did a quick mental multiply to obtain how much I had spent over the years. It was not a happy number.

 

I also disliked the heavy handed panic messages that cropped up after I let my subscription expire, warning me my system was in mortal peril unless I immediately renewed my subscription. I had protection installed, it just was not Norton, and yes, it was working quite well. I finally got so tired of the Norton bleating that I ripped out every vestage of program that had Norton in the title. Issue solved.

 

Speaking of subscription renewal, I have tried it over the internet, and lost my investment; that is, I paid and received no update. My wife is slower, she has lost here update fee at least 3 times now, so I have forbidden her to use the internet to update her Norton protection. I have put other protection on her computer, but she started with Norton, and only feels safe if she has Norton installed. No amount of logic on my part can uproot her emotional attachment. So you internet renewal is broken, and there is no way to unwind it after you get my money. I will never purchase or renew over the internet again. Here is an idea: If you do not get confirmation of product installation within a month of purchase over the internet, you refund my money, no questions asked.

 

So after having my wife pleed for a solid week to put Norton back on her machine, I broke down and bought 360 Multi-device. I knew it would be a disaster, but you sometimes do irrational things just for some domestic peace.

 

I put Norton in my machine first, selected "run it" and waited, and waited, and waited. The only sign of activity was a pegged disk activity light. This is odd, because later in the install virtually everything has a progress bar associated with it. I was just about to kill the whole thing when it woke up and gave me an install screen. Note to Norton: Give the user something so they know the whole thing hasn't hung while booting up. It currently looks like just that.

 

OK, install proceeded smoothly until the product key. The data entry box on the screen has it broken into nice 4 digit fields. The key (which is not called anything on the provided card, so you just have to guess what the system is looking for); the key is one God-awful long string of numbers. OK it is a minor point, but my eyesight is not what it once was, and it makes key entry difficult. As an aside, why am I even dealing with a key? The internet is required to download product and virus definition updates. The package knows what it's serial number is. Why do I even need a product key? Just have the package phone home over the internet and validate itself. End of problem.

 

The install crashed. It asked to send the crash report to Symantec, but that crashed too. It offered to download an eraser file to clean up the mess. Bad choice of product name BTW... Most naive users would never run a product called "Eraser" on their machines. The Eraser download hung (or crashed, I don't remember), and no eraser was downloaded.

 

You may say my machine is clearly infected with so many viruses your product cannot safely install. Not so. I just completed a scan with Comodo AV, and one with Malware Bytes. Both come up clean. I am having no performance issues, and no operational anomolies with my machine (Windows XP, BTW). I was installing Norton on my machine before attempting it on my wife's computer. I always do this, I can screw up my machine and it will cost me a day to re-build it. If I screw up her machine I will never hear the end of it.

 

So where do I stand? I still do not like Norton (would you?) I have an essentially non-functional product, and am out $100. Just like internet renewal, only now it applies to the physical media too.

 

So what do I use? I like Comodo. They offer basic packages for free with upgrades to more functional offerings for $$. I find the free ones work just fine for me, and their firewall beats windows firewall hands down. I know you have a hard time competing with free, but you could adopt their marketing model and offer basic intro packages for free with upgrades. Of course, this assumes that your intro packages will install and run, not a given from my experience.

 

Malware bytes (not free) is good, especially if you have found a heavy-duty virus on your machine. Kasperski and Macafee I classify with Norton, though I did not have the install problems I have had with Norton. They both run, they both want to do too much, and they both seem to miss things that Comodo and Malware find.

 

If you do get a really nasty virus (and to date I have only had one of them), you will need to find a specific removal tool on the net. Just google the name of the virus (Any of the packages mentioned will tell you about the virus, even if they can't remove it.). A removal protocol just for that virus will be provided by the net. I have only had one that I couldn't remove with anything. I finally had to grab everything valuable off of the drive and erase it completely for a fresh install. This always works, but usually requires an entire day to complete, so it is the last resort.

 

I don't think you can get me away from the Comodo firewall, it is a great product and it is free. You might get me to use your AV, if it would co-exist on my machine with Comodo, but it would need to be more comprehensive than it currently is. I would need to feel that if my machine passed a Norton scan, I would simply not need to run any other scans, they would find nothing. I do not currently feel that way (and can demonstrate if need be). If your product cannot comprehensively find viruses on computers, then what do you hang your hat on? What is your value in the marketplace? OK, we remove SOME viruses. Pretty weak if you are asking for my money.

 

Most companies kill for customer feedback like this. While mostly negative, I do mention the positive emotional attachment some feel for Norton. From my perspective, it is about all you have going right now.

 

Hope this helps your product development, I really did like Norton and used it a lot 10 or 15 years ago. But it is 2012, technology moves on, and you don't seem to have moved with it. If anything, your install has gone backwards.

 

Cheers,

Pete

 

 

4

Pete12345

 

I have to ask about the other anti virus software you have on your system.

 

Were you uninstalling any other anti virus completely with the removal utility from that company before insalling Norton? All security software companies recommend only having one security software that has real time scanning on a system at one time. More than one at a time sees both looking and scanning the same file access at the same time, and often see each other as malware. This confusion can slow the system or shut down the second program.

 

If you have another scanner installed and running, it can stop or interfere with the installation of another.

5
Pete12345 wrote:

Dave,

 

"Here" is a place. "Hear" is to receive information, usually by sound,

but used colloquially in a general sense. Thought you might like to know.

 

Cheers,

Pete

Yes I know that.  People make mistakes.  I was trying to offer you a suggestion. There is no need for sarcasm.

 

6
Pete12345 wrote:

Dave,

"Here" is a place. "Hear" is to receive information, usually by sound,

but used colloquially in a general sense. Thought you might like to know.

Could also be a person, as used in the opening post:

 

"My wife is slower, she has lost here update fee at least 3 times now..."

 

:smileysurprised: 

 

 

 

7

Peterweb,

 

While I do not turn off competitive AV products during install, I do disable all but one when I run my system.

I also run only 1 firewall, though there are at least 2 available to me on every box I own.

 

Comodo watches installs and asks for permission to allow suspicious accesses (to the web and registry

generally). I grant these accesses, but it allows me to watch software install itself on my system, and if I

suspect anything I can always deny access. I like this Comodo feature a lot, though it can be a bit

tedious until Comodo learns which packages you want to allow to access your sensitive areas.

 

I have learned that running more than 1 AV product at a time is generally not a good idea. If file access conflicts

do not get you, then it will beat your HD to death and noticably slow down your machine. If you feel the need to

run more than 1 AV scan (as I do), it is far better to run one, disable it, enable another, and run that one. Running

sequentially is invariably quicker than running two in parallel, from my experience, and that assumes file access

conflicts do not intrude. (Hasn't been a problem for me in the past, but I may just have been lucky.) Time is the killer.

 

A NTFS file system verify from WIN XP on a 2 TB drive runs 6 to 9 hours. A Comodo scan on the same drive

runs around 12 hours. I don't know about Norton, it didn't install, but I would guess it would come in around

12 hours. Run Norton and Comodo together and I doubt a day and a half would suffice. The hard numbers

are from experience, the rest is a best guess.

 

Installing Norton on a box with Comodo protection should not be a problem until Norton wants to run its first

scan. Until that point it is just a standard software install, and Comodo will complain when Norton wants to phone

home or touch the registry, but you can grant permission for these actions and things continue normally.

 

I will try installing Norton on a naked box before I try for the refund. Seems like this would be a common enough

issue that Norton would check for it and pop up a warning dialog if there were a problem. Then again, Norton

never checked for competitive products when it told me my box was unprotected and could be attacked at any time.

Windows knows about competitive AV and Firewall products. Perhaps I expect too much from Norton.

 

Cheers,

Pete

 

8

Touche

9

Don't you mean Touche`?

10

Peterweb,

 

Your reply reminds me of something I have often wondered about. I have never had a running AV

package complain when I install a different package. This always made me wonder, how does

a new package with thousands of virus signatures not set off some sort of alarm bell in an existing

anti-virus package? You would think if anything would cause a virus alarm a new AV package would.

 

From my experience they don't. Must be some sort of encoding that masks the individual virus

signatures, but I don't know, I really don't even know how the viruses themselves work. I do know

that they are annoying, and potentially very annoying. If I am going searching on the internet to sites

I may not know about, I generally try to run Linux. It is much more immune to viruses (but not

invulnerable), and you can re-build a system in a matter of a half hour, not a half day as with windows.

 

While I might like to know how viruses work, I do not want my name or IP  address associated with such

searches on the internet. Not that I would ever take action, but I am curious how they work. People

feel shielded when using the internet, but it is a false sense of security. There is little you will ever do

that is more public than use the internet. Your tracks are in hundreds of systems around the world, and

they are there permanently.

 

If I turn other AV products off, their mere presence on my system should not interfere, should it? I would

hate to have to rip everything else out just to indulge Norton. I am pretty attached to the other packages I run.

 

Pete

11
Pete12345 wrote:

Peterweb,

 

If I turn other AV products off, their mere presence on my system should not interfere, should it? I would

hate to have to rip everything else out just to indulge Norton. I am pretty attached to the other packages I run.

 

Pete

 

Just having the product installed can cause conflicts. Even if a security program was removed with Windows control panel, there can be remnants left behind (incase you want to reinstall) that have been known to interfere with the installation or running of another security program.

 

Just disabling the a/v function still leaves  portions of the program running, that can conflict with a second a/v.