Norton Online Backup Issues

I installed Norton Online Backup (with 25 Gb of space) on my system last night and tried to do a backup of about 8 Gb or so.

 

First thing I noticed is that the backup client is creating an extremely large .arc file in a temp directory on my C: drive. It is so large, in fact, that it is completely filling my  C: drive, which does not have all that much space free (about 1.5 Gb).

 

Is it trying to create a single file with my entire backup in it? Please tell me this program isn't that poorly designed. :(

 

How can I move this temp directory to another drive with more space?

 

 Secondly, since I started the backup last night it has failed four times with a "Backup failed (A2287)" error. What does this error mean?

 

The online agent is showing that I've used 5.69/25 Gb of space, so it appears something is slowly happening. I can't afford to have my computer crippled by having the C: drive completely filled up every time I do a backup, though.

 

 

Hello Maxima,

 

 

Unfortunately the directory Norton Online Backup uses cannot be moved to a separate location. The good news is it only uses the larger amount of space the first time it backs up the data. Subsequent backups will only send new files and incremental changes.

 

There are a couple of things you can do to help reduce the amount of space it needs on the initital transfers:

 

1. Select the data to backup in sections instead of everything you want at once. The easiest way to accomplish this is add the first category you wish to backup, let it run and then add another once the last backup finishes. This way its recording what you had selected, grabbing changes and adding your new content in smaller batches.

 

2. You can utilize the advanced rules to be selective in what content it is backing up. There may be a specific directory covered by the categories you may not need to backup such as other user profiles.

 

 

Let me know if you need help in how to use the rules or have further questions.

 

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for responding to my post.

 

>  There are a couple of things you can do to help reduce the amount of space it needs on the initital transfers:

 

I think you would agree (I hope you would agree) that your suggestions are quite kludgy and would be extremely tedious to have to do. Why should I have to do this to work around your poor design?

 

In particular, I have about 8 Gb of mp3 files I'd like to back up. I can't just pick a category, it will grab all 8 Gb at once. And I'm not going to add directories one by one, there are hundreds of them.

 

I suggest that in the next version you:

 

  - explain to the user that a large amount of temp space will be needed;

  - give the user the option to pick a temp directory (or just try to use other drives with more space);

  - be smarter about using the temp space - divide the backup into chunks yourself and leave a workable amount of space on the C: drive. Never fill up the entire drive.

 

 > Let me know if you need help in how to use the rules or have further questions.

 

I do have some further questions,  which I could not find answers to in the on-line help.

 

1) How do I add extensions to the built-in categories? For example, the financial category includes *.ta1, *.ta2, *.ta3, *.ta4, *.ta5, *.ta8, and *.ta9.  *.ta6 and *.ta7 are missing, and I could not find a way to add them.

 

2) When I did add rules to pick up *.ta6 and *.ta7, I tried using *.ta* . This was not accepted as a filter. I would consider this a bug.

 

3) It appears you only search the "My Documents" for files in the categories. This is bad because a) not everyone puts everything under My Documents, and b) some programs by default save files to other places. There should be an option to search the entire drive for those files.

 

4) How do I delete a file out of my backup? I may want to clean out some files I no longer need to back up so I can freeup some backup space.

 

5) If I delete a file on my computer, is it deleted from the backup set at the next backup?

 

Thanks.

Hello Maxima

 

I'll forward your suggestions to the development team for future releases. However there are some items to note from your comments:

 

I had suggested to utilize the categories, not selecting individual directories. The categories will let you select groups of files at once. Utilizing the rules will help you cut out what you already know you may not want and slim things down. That helps you in reducing the amount transferred and ultimately stored.

 

It's not inherently a poor design but how many backup applications work. A temporary space is needed to encrypt and compress that large of amount of data. The cpu and memory usage, without this temporary directory, would go throug the roof otherwise. It's also only for the initial backup and then doesn't need a majority of that space again.

 

Relocating the temporary directory is not as simple as it may seem. The application has to comply with Microsoft Windows requirements partly to be certified and also to work properly with all versions of Windows. Microsoft requires that all user directories, such as this one, to write to the Documents and Settings in XP or Users folder in later versions. Otherwise the application would not have sufficent access rights in order to create its temporary files, settings and logs. If you look at many other applications you will see they also have user folders stored in those same locations.

 

1) Currently you cannot edit the extensions that the categories use. That's a possible future enhancement but I couldn't say when or if it will go into play since you have access to the custom rules. The format the rules use may be a little bit different than what you may be used to, in regards to wildcards, within Windows Search for example. The following will give you steps on how you can add them based on your needs:

 ·         You would first login to your Norton Online Backup account as normal.  ·         Click on Settings next to the Computer you wish to edit the file selection configuration. ·         Click on Custom. ·         Click on New Rule located towards the bottom of the page. It’s right across from the Done button ·         Select either Include or Exclude from the pull-down menu. ·         Enter your new rule as follows to select a specific file extension: C:\Documents and Settings\your username\Desktop\*\*.exeThis will automatically select all EXE files in that particular location or exclude them based on the rule type selected.  Be careful in how generic you make the directory location. It has to scan that path to find a match so if you do C:\*\*.exe, it will scan all of C:. ·         Click SAVE to the right of the new rule once completed.   

In your instance your rule would look something like: C:\Documents and Settings\youruserfolder\Desktop\*\*.ta2

 

Of course the directory path itself will change to match your system and you would add rules for the other extensions. I'd advise to create one for each extension type rather than making it  *\*.ta*. The more refined the rules are the better the product can be at selecting the items you want.

 

2. I would have to see the rule format you used specifically to indicate what the issue was. It will work if you use the example above but I wouldn't suggest it.

 

3. The program specifically searches under Documents and Settings or Users for document files. It specifically does not go outside of that due to the large volume of possible matches that fall outside of the range. Most users would not like it to grab documents from locations such as Programs and Files if they were help documents or other items.


Although you are correct that it is likely not all users will have their data in My Documents/Documents a majority of them do. This is why the user is given the option to add custom folders or files outside of the categories.

4. Currently you can't. This is a feature enhancement likely to come with 2.0. You can purge an entire computer if needed currently but not individiual files as of yet.

 

You're going to ask why. This is due to how data is backed up and stored. As I previously mentioned it uses incremental technology to speed up backups. In order to purge a single file it has to purge every instance of that file, from the date you requested, all the way down to the first instance it was backed up. It can be a time intensive process as a result especially if you factor in the encryption involved.

 

The other factor is many customers tend to delete or accidentially de-select files and then realize they want them. This is another one of those majority use case scenarios. However it will all be moot once the purge feature becomes available.

 

5. Files are not deleted from the backup if you de-select them. The last copy remains for you to restore in the event that you need it. This follows the same reasoning as #4.

 

 

Please let me know if there are any other questions and I'll be happy to answer them.

Hi Wesley,

 

> I had suggested to utilize the categories, not selecting individual directories.

 

If I select the "Music" category, it will select all 8 Gb of my music files at once. Well, it would if I kept my mp3s under Documents and Settings, which I don't. So I have to add the directory with my mp3s, which again will add all 8 Gb at once, unless I take the time to add the subdirectories individually. This would be tedious.

 

> It's not inherently a poor design but how many backup applications work.

 

I don't really have a problem with where the temporary directory is, but rather with a design that allows the entire hard drive to be filled. And I have plenty of apps that write to their own install directory, and let you install there where you wish, maybe these apps didn't bother with certification. And NOBU did not give me an option to install anywhere but the C: drive, which virtually every application I've ever seen (even Microsoft's) lets you do.

 

> 1) Currently you cannot edit the extensions that the categories use.

 

This is less important than making sure the pre-defined list is complete. For example, in the "Financial files" category,  you have *.ta1,*.ta2,*.ta3, *.ta4, *.ta5, and *.ta8. These are tax return files for a program called TaxAct.The digit at the end represents the year. But*.ta6 and *.ta7 are missing, which means tax files for 2006 and 2007 would not get backed up. Clearly someone was aware that these files are "financial" in nature. How the heck did they miss a couple years?

 

 > 2. I would have to see the rule format you used specifically to indicate what the issue was

 

I tried to add this as an include-type rule:  C:\Program Files\2nd Story Software\*\*.ta* 

 

I got an error that says "File or directory path is in an invalid format". So I had to add 7 separate rules to grab .ta1-.ta7 (TaxAct didn't store its files under "My Documents" until the 2008 version). Note that this type of format works fine in a cmd shell.

 

> 3. The program specifically searches under Documents and Settings or Users for document files. It specifically does not go outside of that due to the large volume of possible matches that fall outside of the range

 

It would be nice to give me the option rather than make assumptions, or make me manually search my hard drive to find all the directories I need.

 

> 4.

> 5.

 

Thanks for explaining how this works. It seems like this would be good information to have in the help. I skimmed through it all, maybe it is there and I missed it.

 

 

 

Hello Maxima,

 

It's splitting hairs really. Either way it would grab 8 GB and accomplish the same thing. You don't need to go by sub-directory to sub-directory unless you specifically wanted to go that route. I'd go for the root music folder, add that one new item in and let it transfer it. Then as suggested add in the next category or section of data.

 

In regards to the data directory and install locations - All the applications are letting you do is select where it's selecting where the program itself goes. A majority of installers don't let you select where the data goes. Some do once installed if you change advanced settings. It's likely some didn't go thorugh certification or simply disregarded it. I couldn't say especially considering the volume of freeware and shareware out there. It would also fall under best practices. If you wish to debate this particular item in more details please PM me since it is moving past the point of the initial query.

 

As referenced any application that is going to encrypt and/or compress data needs swap space to create the content. The more you are trying to encrypt and compress the more temporary space it needs. The space is given back once the process is finished. The concept is used by a multitude of compression applications. The only difference is the average file you compress with one of  those is far smaller than what you're doing with the backup.

 

 

1. The categoies cover a range of common used applications based on user studies and customer input. TaxAct was not one of those at the time based on volume and input. This is one of those scenarios where the categories can't encompass every program out there. Otherwise it would get unyielding and file selection would take forever when a backup actually ran. I'll make the suggestion to add TaxAct in future updates to the Financial category.

 

2. I've spoken with our engineers on this particular item. I was incorrect in my original statement. Currently the rules only permit one wildcard per rule entry. If the first part of the filename remains the same you can swap where the * is placed. This is likely to change in a future version but I could not say when that would take place. The rule format is a small piece of a much larger piece of the puzzle so its not an easy undertaking to modify.

 

3. This falls under the same line as the categories mentioned above. The program needs to stick to what the majority uses. If a user is straying outside of the default storage locations then its likely they will also know they will need to manually select the content.

 

 

Hi Wesley,

 

 > As referenced any application that is going to encrypt and/or compress data needs swap space to create the content. The more you are trying to encrypt and compress the more temporary space it needs.

 

I'm only asking that the software not work in a vacuum and be a little more aware of the surroundings. You could easily crash other programs on the machine, or even crash the machine, or worse, cause data corruption in other programs, if you completely fill the C: drive. This is not friendly behavior.

 

>  1. The categoies cover a range of common used applications based on user studies and customer input. TaxAct was not one of those at the time based on volume and input.

 

Haha, an assumption on my part! Interesting that some other financial-type program is using the same file suffixes asTaxAct.

 

> 3. This falls under the same line as the categories mentioned above. The program needs to stick to what the majority uses.

 

I totally understand that for any software aimed at a wide consumer market, you have to aim for the lowest common denominator. At the same time, I like to be in control of the software, not the other way around. Advanced options are always appreciated. :)

 

One final question and then this can get put to bed:

 

Is there a list of error codes anywhere with explanations? I've received the following errors at times:

 

A2287 A2028 A2211 A2816

 

They all just say "Backup failed."

 

Thanks for the dialog.

Hello Maxima,

 

I'll pass the comments along but the use case scenario you describe is rare. Your point has been made but you're also talking worse case scenario which can be easily misunderstood without knowing other likely contributing factors.  

 

The online help has information to cover some of the errors: https://nobu.backup.com/OnlineHelp/en/Online_Help.html. Additional resources can be found at http://www.symantec.com/norton/support/top_ts_issues.jsp?pvid=nobu_1&id=tech_issues&selected_nav=5.

 

Help is always one of those items that is always changing too. I'll review the content and see about getting any of the below error codes added in but currently there is no master list. One of the reasons being is there are thousands of error codes but you would likely only encounter maybe 25 out of that. I'll briefly explain the ones you listed.

 

 

A2287 - This means the computer is running low on disk space. It's related partly to the temp files being left behind as a result of a partial backup. We already reviewed the course of action on this particular one.

 

A2211 - This is a temporary connectivity issue with the back-end storage. It's not able to properly connect which in turn it will send this error message. If it happens the best course of action is to wait 20 minutes and re-try the backup/restore or wait till your next scheduled window.

 

A2816 - This is a software based firewall error mesage. It means the rules your security product is using is blocking NOBU on the software level from running. By default Symantec security products while label NOBU so it won't get blocked however that doesn't control other security products or user changes.

 

A2028 - This means another job is likely already running. It's detected an attempt to login with the same computer agent that already had a request in process. This may come up after a A2211 error message.

 

Thanks!

You’re welcome Maxima. Glad to help out.

I installed Norton Online Backup (with 25 Gb of space) on my system last night and tried to do a backup of about 8 Gb or so.

 

First thing I noticed is that the backup client is creating an extremely large .arc file in a temp directory on my C: drive. It is so large, in fact, that it is completely filling my  C: drive, which does not have all that much space free (about 1.5 Gb).

 

Is it trying to create a single file with my entire backup in it? Please tell me this program isn't that poorly designed. :(

 

How can I move this temp directory to another drive with more space?

 

 Secondly, since I started the backup last night it has failed four times with a "Backup failed (A2287)" error. What does this error mean?

 

The online agent is showing that I've used 5.69/25 Gb of space, so it appears something is slowly happening. I can't afford to have my computer crippled by having the C: drive completely filled up every time I do a backup, though.

 

 

Wesley, thanks for the dialogue with Maxima.  I've got the same problem of HUGE .arc files from online backups using Norton 360 on a Vista machine. There are 8 .arc files occupying 110 Gb of my 220 Gb hard drive (C:).  I've tried deleting them, dragging to the Recycle bin, cutting them and not pasting anywhere, and getting the same problem each time - that I need to confirm the operation.  I hit continue and User Account Control comes up and I click Continue.   Then I get the error panel "Destination Folder Access Denied" and "Need permission for this action". Hitting Continue just gets me a Try Again or Cancel and I'm back to where I started with no files deleted.  Questions:

  1. If these are temporary files, why does it need so many?  If it's reusing them (hopefully, but back to Maxima's question on faulty design), shouldn't it need just one temp file?
  2. Why doesn't it adjust the size of the .arc temp file?  After the first backup, arguably it shouldn't need as much space for incremental changes to compress and encrypt the changes.
  3. Using half of my hard drive for temporary backup files is intolerable!  How can I improve this situation?  I can use the recommendation to Maxima of multiple smaller backup sets, but that's a pain - and if I used it would it eliminate all the existing .arc files (I don't think so, or I should have just one currently).
  4. If the .arc files can be deleted some way, which one should I keep - the most recent, the smallest?
  5. If.arc files can not be deleted, would they be deleted if I uninstall Norton 360 and reinstall it, then make smaller backups as in your suggestion (which by the way needs to be in bold capital letters in the help center).  

If none of the above suggestions will get rid of these huge .arc files, I plan to reformat my hard drive and use another backup program.  I may still use other parts of Norton 360, but not backup until it can be made more user friendly. I see no point in having half of your drive filled with a temp file you can't delete.

 

Thanks for any help!

I too are experiencing the same problems and would like to know how to delete these files.  I will also being looking at a new solution if this problem cannot be solved.

Hello,

 

It seems like there is quite a bit of users experiences issues with these huge arc files from Norton.

 

I was using my computer on Saturday when I noticed that some of my programs were not opening, including Norton. After a couple of minutes of frustration I noticed that I was only left with 148kb of space on my hard drive. Concerned I had a trojan running in the background & considering my antivirus was not active, I ran a search of my entire computer for files over 8mb in size. To my surprise, the top 4 files on the list were Norton arc files located in the "backup" folder. Each one of them over 10gb in size and the biggest one almost 21gb.

 

Just like other users I attempted to deleted these files and was halted every time. I tried to delete them from the Norton back up platform and was unable to even see the files from here.

 

I'd like to hear a solution promptly, for such a big amount of space is unacceptable, especially when they are created unexpectedly and they cripple your computer's ability to prefrom when you are on a deadline.

 

Thank you in advance.


CeVi wrote:

Hello,

 

It seems like there is quite a bit of users experiences issues with these huge arc files from Norton.

 

I was using my computer on Saturday when I noticed that some of my programs were not opening, including Norton. After a couple of minutes of frustration I noticed that I was only left with 148kb of space on my hard drive. Concerned I had a trojan running in the background & considering my antivirus was not active, I ran a search of my entire computer for files over 8mb in size. To my surprise, the top 4 files on the list were Norton arc files located in the "backup" folder. Each one of them over 10gb in size and the biggest one almost 21gb.

 

Just like other users I attempted to deleted these files and was halted every time. I tried to delete them from the Norton back up platform and was unable to even see the files from here.

 

I'd like to hear a solution promptly, for such a big amount of space is unacceptable, especially when they are created unexpectedly and they cripple your computer's ability to prefrom when you are on a deadline.

 

Thank you in advance.


Welcome to the Norton Community

 

What Norton Product and Version are you using and what is your OS. This info will help us to determine how to assist you.

 

Thanks

Hello jeh7354,

 

1. It usually does not need that many. If there are a lot of files remaining it indicates there has been repeated failures preventing its cleanup process from running. Without getting too in depth with the architecture it basically creates on average at least one log file, a database files and multiple arc, dif and/or @ds files.

 

2. It does adjust the size of the files. Based on what you're saying the uploads are not fully completing so the files are not only being left behind but it generates fresh ones on a new attempt. Creating new ones is normal since its a new session and all new unique identifers to the data.

 

3. The first thing that needs to be done is clear up the failed sessions. From that point it can be started off fresh. Smaller backup sets are the best course of action if you're trying to upload a large backup. Even with a broadband connection the average upload speed is less than 1/4th of what your download speed is. You'd only see a true equal of download to upload speed if you had a T1 or greater type of connection. Even then its not guaranteed depending on various other connection factors.

 

4. For this particular instance I'd suggest purging them all but leave the SLG files behind. Please see below also for further advice.

 

5. No. Uninstalling N360 would not accomplish anything but cause you more grief than needed.

 

It all comes down to once we find the root cause of why backups are failing and then get a good session completed a lot of your problems will go away.  

 

If you can send me your contact information, via PM, either myself or another agent can give you a call to work on the Vista UAC issue.

Hello CeVi and atho2533,

 

The issues you're experiencing, in deleting the files, are because the folder the contents are stored in are system folders. Sometimes even with the proper authentication Vista rejects authority to edit those folders. I've seen the same thing happen to Documents before too. If you can PM me your contact info I can have an agent reach out to you directly and work on the issue.

What is error A2222?


maxima wrote:
What is error A2222?

 

It means you got disconnected from the backup servers whilst doing a backup. Is this a one time thing or is it happening every time?

It happens occasionally.

 

 

I have noticed from watching the web page to track the backup's progress, that the upload is dog-slow, and it sometimes just freezes half-way through. The web interface is dog-slow, too. It can take 10 seconds just to log in, and 20+ seconds to open the settings page for any particular computer.

 

And the restore page says it will take 15 minutes to load the list of backed-up files. Are you kidding me???

 

I wonder if Symantec has built adequate resources to properly support this product.