Hi pexley,
Can you restart your browser and let us know if Norton Safe Search is still listed as a search provider in your IE7 search box?
Thanks,
KhanhT
Hi pexley et al,
I'm just asking (excuse the use of ask)....Under Identity Settings there are two options 1) Norton Safe Web and 2) Enhance Search Engine Results. Both are ON by default. I'm wondering if toggle of Enhance Search Engine to OFF will accomplish what you suggest should be a patch or workaround. I'm not sure if Enhance Search Engine is the same as Enable Safe Search. I'm not sure if the core functions of SafeWeb are not interfered with if Enhance Search Engine is OFF.
What do you think?
I've observed Safe Web is ON by default. Safe Search is ON by default. Search Box is OFF by default. AskEraser is OFF by default. If I toggle AskEraser to ON > Ask.com uses a cookie to maintain my AskEraser ON state and if I delete the Ask.com cookie. AskEraser toggles to default OFF.
Comments ?
Regards
bjm_
khanht,
I have tried restarting IE7 and restarting my computer. Safe search is still listed as a search providor the same as it was when safeweb/safesearch was first added to the norton products earlier this year.
bjm_,
Thanks for the suggestion however it did not remove safe search from my list of search providor(s) (at the moment it is just google and safe search). Turning off enhanced search engine results removes the ratings from search engine results while allowing you to still get safeweb ratings for the site you are currently viewing via the norton toolbar. Turning norton safeweb completely off removes both the safeweb ratings from the results and the ratings from the toolbar (the toolbar just shows a green check mark and upon clicking it the only info provided is "no phishing detected").
edit: Also, I found that unchecking enable norton safeweb in the dropdown menu you get from clicking on norton in the norton toolbar is the same as turning safeweb completely off via the identity settings in NIS. Enable search box is unchecked in the norton menu. Minimize toolbar is checked. Safe search is still listed as a search providor in the search box.
Message Edited by pexley on 08-19-2009 11:39 AM
Hi pexley,
In Firefox I had the same results as you. I unchecked the recommended Safe Search and still had Ask.com as an optional search engine. I have with FF the tool Manage Search Engines to remove Ask.com from my browser search engines. Not the same as Norton Safe Search powered by Ask? Browser search engines vs. Norton Tool Bar search box.
The NoScript FF add-on blocks Ask.com scripts. So, I would have to allow and/or add Ask.com to the NoScript whitelist.
Have you read the FAQ and Privacy Info for Ask.com/Safe Search.
http://sp.ask.com/en/docs/about/askeraser.shtml
I appreciate you interest in this issue. The partnership between Norton and Ask begs for a better understanding of what is the net result for the enduser of Norton products.
Have you found Privacy Safe Guard alias AskEraser. It's OFF by default. So, Ask server stores info about your system and your searches. I don't understand if registration is required to permit Ask server to store info. Does Enhanced Search Engine Results ON permit Ask server to store info about searches via any search engine?
I have more questions than answers for now.
Regards, please post back if you come to any conclusions.
bjm_
Message Edited by bjm_ on 08-19-2009 12:23 PM
Hi bjm,
Based on the screen image norton shows you when it asks whether or not you want to enable safe search it looks as though you have to specifically use norton safe search to access the new safeweb features (i.e. the privacy safe guard). I seems that if you do your web searching through that safe search box in the norton toolbar your results will appear in a special norton search results window (I think only the search results themselves are powered by ask.com).
I guess only in that special norton window can you access/customize these new features. In a previous message I noted how it would be much better if these new features were part of the actual norton identity settings so they could be controlled outside of the web browser and potentially be used with any popular/support search engine.
-Pexley
Hi pexley,
As you already noticed, Norton Safe Web will continue to mark up search results on Google, Yahoo, and Bing.com whether you have Safe Search enabled or not. The reason why we cannot make some of the features that you saw on Norton Safe Search available on Google, Yahoo and Bing.com search results page was because most of those features were implemented at the server-side and not done by the client. With Google, Yahoo, and Bing the Norton clients overlay our site ratings on top of the search results page. That means we are limited to how those search results page are laid out. With Norton Safe Search, we have full control over the search results page which allows us to customize it anyway we want.
As for the issue with the search provider. With 16.7 if you do not enable Safe Search we will not add Norton Safe Search to the list of search providers. If you choose to enable Safe Search, we will add it to the list of search providers. When you uninstall 16.7, we will remove it from the list of search providers. However, if Safe Search was added to the list of search providers by previous version, we do not remove it when you install 16.7.
I hope this help clarify the issues you have reported.
Thanks,
KhanhT
Hi 12Owen8,
Based on our analysis most major search engines have roughly the same number of unsafe search results. With Norton Safe Search we make it easier for users to identify unsafe search results or choose to automatically remove them.
Thanks,
KhanhT
Hi pexley,
I had to think on it awhile... and I had to re-read all the posts in this thread. (wife says I'm dense).
I think I'm just now getting the gist of what you feel would have been a better approach to Safe Search. As KhanhT explains to accomplish what you want Norton would require a partnership with all Search Engines.
I have observed with Safe Search enabled > Ask Safe Search from the browser search box renders the same page as Norton Safe Search from the Tool Bar search box. Whether any customize options follow into Ask Safe Search browser search box render. At this time >Uncertain. Just that anything search from Norton Tool Bar search box renders the same page as browser Ask Safe Search.
I prefer using Google and have FF add-on Customize Google which offers Privacy option and Filter option.
Something about Ask server storing my personal info even if only for a few hours with Privacy ON (requires user to enable and maintain with Ask cookie) and may share my info with third parties that just feels wrong. I appreciate most of what I do is being broadcast just by using the web. Still, seems odd that Privacy is OFF by default and is maintained ON by a cookie. Norton and Ask have a partnership and I wonder what is true net result for the enduser.
I think Safe Web is great and I also use WOT.
Norton Safe Search....? Jury is still out for me.
Regards...nice to visit with you,
bjm_
Message Edited by bjm_ on 08-19-2009 06:34 PM
Thanks everyone for clarifying in such great detail.
So, after getting the 16.7 patch and disabling safe search, in order to remove safe search from my list of search providors I just remove it using IE's controls. Correct? This will not interfere with the other core functions of safeweb? Also, should I ever choose to enable safe search, for whatever reason, does safe search again become a search providor in IE?
Hi pexley,
I removed Ask Safe Search from my browser search engine list and Norton Safe Web functions the same. Also, Norton Safe Search functions the same. So, to the naked eye. Ask Safe Search browser and Norton Safe Search (powered by Ask) render the same. With Safe Search checkboxed ON and Search Box disabled or enabled. Go to Ask.com and page renders with AskEraser ON...my setting in Norton Safe Search. At Ask.com click Advanced and page renders the same as Norton Safe Search click Advanced. Norton and Ask got themselves a partnership. Norton added Ask.com search box to the Norton tool bar. Business makes strange bed fellows.
Regards
bjm_
It would be nice if we had the option to decide to install/or not this bar (as Google does), and not being "threated" to lose some protection if we uninstall the add-on.
Message Edited by jduartepe on 08-19-2009 11:49 PM
Hi bjm,
I think there is a confusion. There are three ways how you could access Norton Safe Search (server-side solution co-developed with Ask.com):
1) by performing search fron the search box in the Norton toolbar
2) by performing search using Norton Safe Search from the IE search box search provider list
3) go to safesearch.ask.com
As mentioned in the sticky post, we work with Ask.com co-developing this site which is different than the primary ask.com site.
KhanhT
Hi jduartepe,
If you do not wish to use Norton Safe Search, you can choose to opt out. You don't lose any protection. Norton toolbar will continue to mark up search results on Google, Yahoo and Bing. However, we can't provide the custom search experience that we are able to do with Norton Safe Search as that search page is co-developed with Ask.com which allows us much more flexibility to integrate security-related features directly into the search page.
Thanks,
KhanhT
KhanhT wrote:Hi bjm,
I think there is a confusion. There are three ways how you could access Norton Safe Search (server-side solution co-developed with Ask.com):
1) by performing search fron the search box in the Norton toolbar
2) by performing search using Norton Safe Search from the IE search box search provider list
3) go to safesearch.ask.com
As mentioned in the sticky post, we work with Ask.com co-developing this site which is different than the primary ask.com site.
KhanhT
So each of the three ways is independent of each other? Does this mean that even though I disabled safe search via the norton toolbar and the search box in IE I can still use it via safesearch.ask.com without the need to reenable methods 1 and 2?
Well I guess I answered my own question. I tried out the new safesearch via the url khanht posted and it does not require the reenabling of safesearch in the norton toolbar or the IE search box.
Now while I was trying out the new safesearch I found a few things that did not seem right. When searching in the web tab the site is clearly marked as norton safesearch powered by ask. However, upon switching to any other tab (even news which is essentially the same as the web tab) the banner becomes the normal ask.com one with no mention of norton or safesearch at all. By switching tabs am I still using safesearch? Are privacy guard and filter out bad websites still enabled?
Also, I would like to add that while it is ok to use cookies (even though you call them tracking cookies which will scare alot of users into not using the site) to make the new safesearch features available to users, I feel that it is bad marketing when before enabling privacy guard you get a statement saying (basically) "you are going to get a bunch of tracking cookies installed on your computer and we reallly, really recommend you read all of the privacy policies for ask.com, norton safe search, privacy guard, etc. so you know what you are getting yourself into."
I got to tell you I felt much less safe enabling the new safesearch features after reading all of that.
Hi pexley,
Thanks for trying out Norton Safe Search. As mentioned, this site is co-developed with Ask.com. Initially we focused on enhancing the Web channel to add security-related features. In subsequent releases we will work on other channels such as Images, Videos, etc as well as additional features that more techie users might find useful.
As far as the privacy issues, we worked very closely with our partner on this. Like other major search engines, some data such as IP address, browser version, OS, etc are collected to provide optimize search experience. I'd recommend you to look at the privacy policy from other search engines to understand more what they do. For example, in order for some search engines to display the last time you visited a site on the search results page, they need to be able to identify who you are. To display local search content, they need to know the area/region you are searching from. In fact, any Web site you visit that display personalized/custom content or online ads will collect your IP address. As a user of Norton Safe Search, the data provided cannot be used to profile our users. In any case, as a security company we decided to be very clear with our privacy policy which might cause some alarm as you read it.
Thanks,
KhanhT
Hi KhanhT,
KhanhT wrote
Hi bjm,
I think there is a confusion. [....]
I will stipulate there is confusion. Your posts have been very helpful as well as informative and considerate. Thank you for your time and effort helping me (us) understand Norton Safe Search.
Still confused how my SafeSearch setting for AskEraser ON populates into primary ask.com site as you suggest the sites are different. Upon deletion of ask cookie holding my Safe Search AskEraser setting ON. Primary ask.com does not populate AskEraser setting. The sites are different but, they appear to be connected. ?
Explaining that there are three ways to access Norton Safe Search was very helpful.
Well, all that aside:
Please - What is the function of the Identity Setting 'Enhance Search Engine Results'. Help does not clarify the setting. What is the net result of 'Enhanced Search Engine Results' On vs Off and is it linked to Safe Search On / Off. The settings appears to be a sub-setting of Safe Web.
Respectfully submitted
Regards
bjm_
As far as the privacy issue....Norton Safe Search has a stated Privacy Policy and Ask.com has a stated Privacy Policy. Norton Privacy Policy seems to defer to Ask Privacy Policy ~ For more information on the data Ask.com collects and the AskEraser feature, see the Ask.com privacy policy and the AskEraser FAQ.
As far as the privacy issue....Ask Toolbar has a lengthy Enduser License Agreement Disclaimer of Warranty [....]. Does the Norton Toolbar defer to the Ask Toolbar Enduser License Agreement. http://about.ask.com/en/docs/about/ask_eula.shtml
Message Edited by bjm_ on 08-20-2009 11:49 AM
Hi bjm,
Enhance Search Engine Results applies only to Google, Yahoo and Bing (not Norton Safe Search as it is a server-side solution). If you turn it off, you will not see search markup on those search results pages. However, the current page rating (rating icon) on the Norton toolbar will include the site rating from Norton Safe Web.
KhanhT
Good day KhanhT,
Thank you again for continuing our exchange. With your kind indulgence...may I impose upon you again?
This is from Help... "When you search the Internet using Google, Yahoo, MSN, or Ask.com search engines, Norton Safe Web displays Norton rating icons next to the search results".
I'll presume MSN and Bing are the same?
Help includes Ask.com and your post does not. Oversight or is Ask.com now under the control of Norton Safe Search ~ server side solution.
Regards
bjm_
Hi bjm,
With the current 16.7.2.10 patch we also support Bing on both IE and Firefox. We have decided to focus on enhancing Norton Safe Search rather than marking up Ask.com. As our partner, Ask.com has access to our site rating data and might choose to use it to filter or mark up their own search results.
Thanks,
KhanhT