Norton Safety Minder - what's its use? Disabled

Archive
1

What is the point of NSM? It's supposed to protect our kids, but it seems more like Symantec is using us parents to beta chk their s/ware as it is NOT complete it has too many flaws the main one being it DOES NOT work!

 

In 2010 Symantec is considering charging for this so-called "FREE" s/ware so presumably from now till then we're acting as their free beta testers - it'd be nice if they owned up to this!

 

My point, it is SO easy to disable NSM without admin rights, my sons managed to disable it on numerous occasions & even extend times WITHOUT permission. The flaw is related to being "offline" at the time this is done. So as NSM cannot verify the email & password entered it "allows" the user to extend their time or disable the s/ware

 

MAJOR flaw, this means any person can disable NSM without permission. Just by disabling their internet connection & then trying to extend or disable the s/ware once it's been done then re-enabling the internet. He's now managed to get hours more use than i'd allowed. Thank god for Microsoft (i would never have said that normally), i'm also now considering using other internet suite s/ware like Kapersky IS which has in-built parental controls features which are NOT as advanced as NSM but they DO seem to work (ie a child cannot disable the s/ware or logging if offline)

 

Symantec must sort this out & also let us know how much they will want to charge us for this s/ware we're testing for FREE for them! I do feel they should provide this s/ware FOC for all NIS users.

2

What is the point of NSM? It's supposed to protect our kids, but it seems more like Symantec is using us parents to beta chk their s/ware as it is NOT complete it has too many flaws the main one being it DOES NOT work!

 

In 2010 Symantec is considering charging for this so-called "FREE" s/ware so presumably from now till then we're acting as their free beta testers - it'd be nice if they owned up to this!

 

My point, it is SO easy to disable NSM without admin rights, my sons managed to disable it on numerous occasions & even extend times WITHOUT permission. The flaw is related to being "offline" at the time this is done. So as NSM cannot verify the email & password entered it "allows" the user to extend their time or disable the s/ware

 

MAJOR flaw, this means any person can disable NSM without permission. Just by disabling their internet connection & then trying to extend or disable the s/ware once it's been done then re-enabling the internet. He's now managed to get hours more use than i'd allowed. Thank god for Microsoft (i would never have said that normally), i'm also now considering using other internet suite s/ware like Kapersky IS which has in-built parental controls features which are NOT as advanced as NSM but they DO seem to work (ie a child cannot disable the s/ware or logging if offline)

 

Symantec must sort this out & also let us know how much they will want to charge us for this s/ware we're testing for FREE for them! I do feel they should provide this s/ware FOC for all NIS users.

3

Dgardner i take your point, and i agree that we did agree to being "beta" testers for the s/ware. Its just that this s/ware does not work. My son yet again disabled the software so easily by doing as i've mentioned in original post.

 

"Members of the software development team have been very active on this forum in responding to the questions and suggestions made by the beta testers. As a result, the software now includes some important improvements."

 

Since i've posted it - you mention the symantec e'ees are very fastidious & efficient - no e'ee of symantec has come back to me or replied to this thread to help with my situation. I'd posted it a day or 2 ago & to be honest i did expect some feedback from them by now, but so-far nothing. I thought they'd insert their normal spiel about the user has your admin info or they have admin rights etc... but nothing. The s/ware includes major improvements ... but it doesn't work for me, its too easy to disable, or is that not a major problem?

 

i'm very disappointed as i did expect something by now, if there is no solution then can norton or symantec let me know. so i can move on as the s/ware itself is useless otherwise. if you can so easily disable it - even a 5 yr old could! - why was this not fixed sooner, or are all my pc's infected with viruses/spam that are disabling the NSM, if that's the case then i better get in touch with my A/virus/F/wall s/ware provider, oh wait that's norton/symantec also!

 

My comment re: microsoft was ONLY with respect to the parental controls in Vista. Overall i too have found M'soft to be very lacking on the customer service front.

 

Can someone pls let me know how i can sort this matter out, if it can't be done or i'm too dumb to figure it out then let me know!

4

thetaxman, you are right. You have revealed a major flaw in the software and you should have had an immediate response. My previous impression was that interaction between the development team and the beta testers was good but it seems to have slacked off a bit now.

I have duplicated the disabling problem from a non-administrastor account with ease.

This needs fixing.

David

5

Still no word from the symantec or norton team!!! Has my son found a serious flaw in this s/ware. I think so and that is why they haven’t even bothered to reply to this thread!!!

If your s/ware does not work - which it quite obviously doesn’t - tell us, be honest or is that not the norton way???

I remember how good dr solomons was I’m sure they wouldve fixed this problem by now

my only parental help has been the vista parental controls but even they are easy to crack!!! My sons been able to do that quite a while ago that is why I thought NSM was the key. But it’s not it is a useless piece of s/ ware. Until the symantec or norton team own up to the fact it does not work and fix it immediately!

Here’s hoping

dgardner pls don’t call me the taxman, perish the thought that I’d work for the HMRC or as we say the inland revenue - like the IRS in the us!

Message Edited by thetazman on 10-29-2009 09:32 PM

6

Here’s hoping that someone at symantec has the decency to own up to this major flaw!!! my kids have been surfing online in the past with me thinking symantec is watching over them to make sure they’re safe with nsm but they weren’t the s/ware does not work

dgardner explained exactly how my sons managed to extend his time plus disable nsm. Did symantec not test the s/ware themselves?

Also don’t rely on vistas parental controls they work better than nsm I admit but changing the clock is the easiest way to avoid it!

7

I posted ove in the (2nd) thread about "NSM disabled messages" that I verified this major flaw in the software, but I will repost here for emphasis and to document this. I recognize that us parents posting this is potentially counterproductive since it will be only hours until Google and Yahoo searches turn this up dfor children to read how to disable this, but I'm posting it anyway since it's not like we found some complex windows registry hack to disable the software.....it's a cake walk to do and I submit that kids have been doing it a long time and generating messages to us that we've been ignoring. My otehr post pasted below:

 

----

OK, that didn't take long. I switched user on a Windows Vista laptop to my stepson's account which is a Standard User and not an Administrator.

I couldn't get the wireless switch on this Dell laptop to shut off the 802.11 wireless so i just clicked on the network icon and chose 'Dicsonnect from Network XXXXXXX'.

When I could see I was disconnected I clicked on NSM in the System Tray and chose 'Disable Norton Safety Minder'. I was prompted for a parent email and password and I typed in random characters.

I wasn't sure that took since it told me that wasn't correct so I did it again and I got prompted with "NSM is not sure about your credentials, do you want to continue and an email will be sent to your parent"?

I chose OK and BOOM...NSM was disabled- greyed out icon in Systra!

I immediately opened Firefox and proceeded to the playboy.com website which should have been blocked.

A minute later my Blackberry buzzed with one of so many NSM has been disabled warnings that I might easily have disregarded due to the original topic of this thread.

This is unfortunate and unacceptable. I guess we should start a separate thread for this that is properly titled.

 

8
pwscott61 wrote:

 

This is unfortunate and unacceptable. I guess we should start a separate thread for this that is properly titled.

 



I did not want to post a thread title marked "how to d!sab!e nort0n safety minder!" as if I had the number of google searches by kids would be unbelievable. But would that have been a better idea than doing this??? To-date symantec has done NOTHING do should we be helping them to beta test s/ware when they ignore us?

Also I did not list a step by step guide as to how to d!sab!e nsm, I wrote down the idea, so enough for people to confirm I was right and for something to be done but I didn't want an idiots guide on disab!!ng nsm

but another member has now posted the method I'd noted down in my 1st post as a step by step guide. That was what my kid had done and now a number of users have confirmed it works making nsm useless. That is what my point is ... What is the purpose if nsm as it is not a parental control system - it doesn't work!

But thinking about it and the huge number of pm's I have rec'd from the nsm team - sorry I was lying there - was it a good idea not to highlight this issue more by titling this thread properly???
9

To hell with it, here’s the idiots guide on “how to easily disable norton safety minder that even a 5 yr old could do” thanks go to dgardner for listing down the steps described in my 1st post above

this is a true step by step guide on how useful this software really is … Let’s see how many kids google this to disable nsm for themselves!!! Hopefully before then the symantec team will realise how imp’t this major flaw is and sort it out or at the very least respond to our threads!!

dgardner wrote:

As I mentioned in my post a few messages before, I get the message and then monitoring continues.

But since reading @thetaxman’s message I have followed his method on a non-administrator account and completely disabled NSM.

AND as @thetaxman said, it is blindingly simple, his 5 year old did it. I am sure it took me a little longer but I also managed it. I can’t believe none of us ever thought of this before.

 

Here’s how:

1. While in a monitored account, disconnect from the internet (I did it by flicking the switch on the laptop that shuts off the wireless signal and I also did it through the “connect to” menu item).

2. Click NSM (dog’s paw).

3. Click disable NSM

4. When asked for the “parent email” and “parent password” type anything (but you must put something in both fields)

5. Click OK

6. You will get a message

7. Ignore it and click OK

8. NSM is now disabled. reconnect to the internet and there will be no monitoring of activity.

 

This method also works for extending time.

 

I was astonished that such a simple loophole has not been discovered before. I can’t help wondering whether any of the seemingly harmless times I have seen the disabled message were really times in which my kids were wandering the internet unmonitored.

 

David

 

10

Just been onto google and typed in " how to disable nsm " this thread was 5th in the listings the other on disabled msg’s is coming in at 6th!!!
" how to disable norton safety minder " this thread was 3rd in the listings
" how to disable safety minder " this thread was 2nd in the listings

It won’t be long now before all kids with 1/2 a brain will visit these pages to find out how to crack nsm or norton safety minder!!!

I just hope this will wake up those sleeping symantec e’ees and get them to do something! Otherwise they have got a useless piece of s/ware!!!

11

@thetazman- I'm with you on this. When I said it's unfortunate and unacceptable I was talking about such a glaring whole in a piece of security software, Beta or otherwise. Having worked for a number of security hardware and software companies over the last 15 years, the key here is the software engineering group being able to plug this hole almost immediately. A workaround or a patch or a dot release, whatever. Let's hope we see a response from Symantec here that is definitive and effective.

 

At this point I don't see letting children use their PC or Mac in a closed room or solo environment. If we can neither prevent kids from disabling NSxxM nor rely on the messages saying "NSxxxM hase been disabled" to be correct (for months now by the way), then for sure we can't rely on this software. For now it's in the kitchen or family room I suppose, and back to trying to check the history logs in Chrome, Firefox and IE, although our kids are pretty good at purging those.

12

For any parent still worried about their kids & internet access - as it seems Norton/Symantec don't care about us (that can be duly seen by their speedy responses to this urgent issue!) - you can always use the following s/ware:

 

Blue Coat's K9 Web Protection (link below to their FREE software)

 

 K9Website

 

www.k9webprotection.com/

 

Their s/ware has been FREE for a number of years, and I was using it before NSM. NSM if Norton/Symantec actually did something - is FAR FAR superior - but it seems that the norton team didn't realise the s/ware was as useless as it is so are now burying their heads in the sand or are they crying for mama?

 

Sorry if people feel i am being rude to the developers but to be honest i don't care. They are using us as Beta testers, we've now found a MAJOR flaw in the s/ware which makes it un-workable. So do the developers get onto it & spk to the beta-testers to let them know they're on the case, NO! They just keep quiet

 

I am quite please now with the high listing in Google for anyone to find how to crack NSM. I've also informed my friends who were also using the s/ware and recommended they turn it off & use either Windows own (not very good - but better than NSM) parental controls or K9

 

I hope some of the other parents out there find K9 to be useful, they do update regularly & I never had too many issues with it before. Again it is possible to crack but its not as easy as NSM to hack into & disable.

 

I DO NOT work for K9, I'm an English parent who wants to make sure my kids surf the net in safety. Norton promised they would do this but they did not & are STILL NOT delivering. If NSM is really this bad and does not work - the reviews were excellent online for this s/ware - then how can i believe that i'm being protected with Norton Internet Security Suite 2010 (as it's the same developers is it not?)

13

Hi All, 

How about downloading the Add-on Pack V4. Is this any bette than the one downloaded from 'OnLineFamily.Norton(Norton Safety Minder). Let me know. Thanks to All.

 

Zaboo

14
Zaboo wrote:

Hi All, 

How about downloading the Add-on Pack V4. Is this any bette than the one downloaded from 'OnLineFamily.Norton(Norton Safety Minder). Let me know. Thanks to All.

 

Zaboo

thanks for that, just visited the following site to download the pack as you mentioned above:

 

http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/parental-controls/index.jsp

 

the file is called "AOPESDDownloader.exe" and is suitable for NIS2010, even 360 is covered

 

however the info on the site is quite lacking, and it seems this add-on is not a patch on the NSM we were hoping for. it does not seem to have online access (which is a big plus with NSM) also all users must have a running/current NIS a/c to use this s/ware. NSM is free (at the moment) for beta testing purposes

 

it only covers basic parental controls (ie web blocking & confidential info), ie it is about as good as Windows vista parental controls! so what is the point of this add-on? if it covered all the areas NSM did then it would be a valuable add-on (if NSM worked of-course)

 

i for one won't be installing this add-on as i do not see the need when i have vista parental controls setup & also now K9 protecting my kids [there is a workaround to block K9 also - but it is not as easy or simple as stopping NSM!]

 

the blurb below is what is on the symantec site for anyone interested ...

 

 

 

In Norton 360 Version 3.0, Norton Internet Security 2009 and Norton Internet Security 2010

  • Parental Controls
  • Confidential Information Blocking
In Norton 360 Version 2.0 and Norton Internet Security 2008
  • Parental Controls
  • Confidential Information Blocking
  • Antispam
In N360 Version 1 and Norton Internet Security 2007
  • Parental Controls
  • Confidential Information Blocking
  • Antispam
  • Ad and Pop-up Blocking
What Are Add-on Pack Technologies?
Parental Controls:Blocks unsuitable websites
  • Provides password-protected control profiles for adult, teen, and child.
  • Offers predefined standard profiles that are customizable for the individual user.
  • Blocks inappropriate Web sites based on user control profile settings.
  • Logs attempts to access blocked Web sites.
Confidential Information Blocking: Blocks sensitive information (identified as confidential) from inadvertent transfer out of your computer.
AntiSpam: Filters spam out of your inbox — Deletes or moves annoying spam email to a junk mail folder.*

 

Message Edited by thetazman on 10-30-2009 05:49 PM
15

KATIEQ a symantec e'ee - seems to be answering a number of NSM issues on this site but for some strange reason she hasn't answered the queries i noted down on this thread nor the ones noted down in pwscott61's thread?

 

What is symantec playing at can they not have the decency to sort out this major flaw in their s/ware. Instead of answering trivial qn's like it won't do this or that, why not answer the main question as to why it does NOT WORK?

 

Let's wait a few more days for a reply from someone at symantec ... Or is there a postal strike there too?

Message Edited by thetazman on 10-30-2009 05:49 PM
Message Edited by thetazman on 10-30-2009 05:50 PM
Message Edited by thetazman on 10-30-2009 05:50 PM
16
thetazman wrote:
To hell with it, here's the idiots guide on "how to easily disable norton safety minder that even a 5 yr old could do" thanks go to dgardner for listing down the steps described in my 1st post above
... etc. ....
I was astonished that such a simple loophole has not been discovered before. I can't help wondering whether any of the seemingly harmless times I have seen the disabled message were really times in which my kids were wandering the internet unmonitored.

 

David

 

I discovered this myself when I was trying to extend my daughter's time and we lost the wireless connection.

 

At the time, I considered this a useful failsafe.  Why have a locked-up computer is NSM whenever unable to verify parental intervention?  The worst case might result in having to restore the entire system - that would be awful.

 

There needs, however, to be a better failsafe than that crude method.  Perhaps it consist of an alternative password for when the internet cannot be reached.  The verification password would be encrypted and stored locally.

 

It's a hard call.  The scenario I see that is probably on the mind of Symantec engineers would be something like this:

a.  The computer can really connect to the internet, but

b.  NSM can't reach it because of a programming glitch.

c.  The owner needs to reach the internet on the machine in question in order to fix the problem.

d.  Unfortunately, the programming glitch extends to the password, so the owner is blocked by NSM from getting to the solution that would fix the problem.

 

Any exit from the loop up would also be a potential door for violating security.  I'm glad I don't have to think this one through myself.  :smileysad:

Message Edited by mijcar on 10-30-2009 01:04 PM
17

mijcar thanks for the comments.

 

But i feel that NSM should never be disabled for whatever reason. If you lose the password or can't remember it contacting symantec should get you the code. if NSM can't log-on onto the internet then typing in any password/email should not allow the program to be disabled.

 

In-fact it should log each attempt & when internet connection is restored should then relay this info (ie the attempted hijacking of the s/ware by your kids) to the parent! The parent can then restrict their internet or computer habits even further if necessary, a bit draconian I know but there is SO much harmful stuff out their online, we parents need something to protect our kids.

 

mijcar when you found this loophole did you not notify Symantec about the issue so they could resolve it, as if you'd had this problem a while back & someone with your long-standing on this forum they may have listened & resolved it? at this time it seems Symantec is losing faith in the product or with me maybe & not bothering to help

 

It IS a shame as there is SO much potential in this s/ware & over a minor glitch it has caused such a major flaw within the program! Pls symantec do something about this ...

 

The add-on another member mentioned is similar to one i use at the moment with Kapersky's Internet Suite 2010, they too offer as a free element within the program (not a seperate download). Yet I had always felt NIS 2010 was better, but maybe it isn't anymore? If this loophole exists within NSM what lurks within NIS?

 

Its now been 2 days approx since i posted the original thread still NO word from Norton! Thanks for showing us you care about us beta-testers/parents!!!

18

Hi all,

This is Marian Merritt from Norton. I have read over most of this thread and am very appreciative of the feedback from such dedicated users. I know the product team is also discussing your comments and taking the criticism to heart. That being said, I want to share with you the philosophy behind a program like OnlineFamily.Norton. We set out to create a program that could be used to build communication between parent and child. We want parents and children to discuss their House Rules and reach an accord as to how the OF.N settings will be configured. We also don't want to create any stealth or Big Brother mode that can be perceived as allowing spying, whether from parent to child or spouse to spouse.

 

The issue I'm reading here is about the ease with which anyone can disable the Safety Minder. This is true, it's not hard to do. But the parent or account owner will be notified of this event. It is our belief that the notification which should lead to a discussion between parent and child is an important teaching moment. If the child in question persists in defeating the program, perhaps the monitoring provided isn't the issue, but a larger discipline concern looms ahead. Not all parenting dilemmas will be or should resolved via technology.

 

Our philosophy may not be for everyone. If another solution better fits your parenting style, we understand your decision may be to switch programs. We remain confident that the approach we've selected, with guidance from internationally recognized parenting and educational experts, is solid and should assist in guiding our children to use the Internet in safe and age-appropriate fashion.

19

Hi marianmerritt thank you for taking the time to post & share the views of norton to us members (me only being a short-lived member of this forum)

 

From your comments it is quite apparent that this "loophole" or "major flaw" as a number of users would describe is part of the way norton operates. Is this the same for Norton Internet Security Suite or similar program, should children be allowed or able to adjust major component elements within the s/ware with no repurcussions.

 

As I now realise this FAULT within the s/ware is not going to be fixed by Norton, getting a msg to the pc to say NSM has been disabled is a valuable element for a discussion to be had between parent & child. BUT during this time they are able to visit unsavoury websites & use the pc for areas they were not originally entitled to do.But Norton says don't worry about it Mr or Mrs Parent your kids need a good talking too, then once that's finished with you can enable NSM again & let them do what they please ...

 

 

Thank you for being so honest and letting me know that this flaw is going to remain as its an important element within NSM's security to allow kids as young as 5 to view pornographic, violent, racist websites. At least i now know what Norton stands for, so thank you ... But i can chat to them afterwards to say don't worry kid those pictures or images you saw try & forget about the, don't worry ...

 

As stated by you NSM is NOT a parental control application software, i presume therefore it will not be distributed within the UK on the basis that it is! As it quite plainly is not a method to control internet or other pc activities by the child. All other parental control s/ware on the market BLOCKS websites that are unsuitable for children, but NSM doesn't care what a child views as they can just disable it at their leisure! Thanks NSM ...

 

Your comment as to will i be moving to another product, the answer to that is quite simply yes! And i am sure a number of parents visiting this site will also do likewise!

20

@thetazman (sorry about previous mistyping) you make an important point about me having provided an easily googleable step-by-step guide to disabling.  I just wanted to make it easy for others on this forum to verify the procedure. My intention was not to make it too easy for kids but they are very smart and they will work it out and news will get around. To make it slightly less easy for my kids I have included the URL of this forum as a blocked site in NSM for my kids but that is probably a weak defence.

 

I hope the development team for NSM comes up with a quick fix as I like this software and was devasted when you revealed how easy it is to crack.