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Hi Matt:
Thanks for your reply. I did install 360 v2 over 360 v1 and it did reboot at the end of the process. I was not aware of any problems with the install.
Your assumptions about the backup were correct. I unchecked all of the pre-made categories and then began to add folders to the category "other". The counter incremented as I added additional folders but never added anything more (neither individual files nor folders) once it reached that max of 23.6 gb. In addition, I found that only some of the subfolders in the folders added were listed. No matter what I tried, I was unable to add any additional files,subfolders, or folders, to this "other" category. I spent a particularly unproductive 2 hours on the phone with the Help desk Chat service. The problem was bounced to a "senior technician" whose final solution was to uncheck each and every file and then start all over again. This would have taken many, many hours to do without any guarantee that it would be working after I spent all of this additional time. I thus decided to uninstall V2 and go back to V1. My subscription expires in a few weeks and I plan on purchasing V2 but using the key code to renew my subscription to V1 until these issue can be resolved,
Lastly, I understand the reasoning for this new proprietary format for users where unauthorized access to administrator files would be a problem. However, I would bet that most users would prefer the 360 V1 method of backup. It was easy and worked quite smoothly. I like having the files and folders displayed in their native format so that I can easily retrieve them (or view them) even without Norton 360. I consider this new format a step backward instead of an improvement, especially given your comment "The backup format in V2 is in a proprietary format, unlike V1, and makes them vulnerable to hardware crashes."
Unless these issues with backup can be resolved, I will probably decide to purchase some other company's backup program - This would be a departure for me from having used Norton products for almost a decade.
Bill
I have Vista Home Premium with SP1 and Power Desk7. All working happily with 360 version 1. My subscription is up next month so I decided to download v2 and try it before purchase. Big mistake,
1) I immediately encountered the right click crash of both Windows Explorer and Power Desk. I did lots of research and used a program called ShellExView to see all of the shell extensions that are on my computer. Since this problem arose right after 360 V2, I disabled all of the Symantec shell extension - Problem disappeared!!! I then re-enabled them 1 by 1 and found that there are 2 Norton 360 shell extensions that are causing the right click problem TP Context Menu Class and BU Context Menu class. With these disabled, no right click problems.
2) Backup issues - I previously use 360-v1 to back up specific folders to an external drive. When I upgraded to V2, I tried to do the same. The list of my prior backup folders had not been ported over to the new version so I started from scratch. I unchecked all of the default sections and only used the "other" section. Unfortunately, the backup did not allow me to include all of the folders that I wanted. It reached a maximum of 23.6 BG and stopped (more than 60 GB available on the external drive). In addition, some of the folders that had been selected only contained a few subfolders on the list rather than all of the files and folders. To top it all off, V1 backed up files and folders with their original names. V2 backed up the files and folders in some kind of compressed format which, of course, is only readable by the original computer that did the backup. Thus - if the computer crashes, bye bye files. No ability to copy and paste them to another computer. This is a complete step backward rather than an improvement. I spent 2 hours on line with the Chat support without any resolution of my file backup problems. What a waste of time.
I then went back and uninstalled 360 V2 and then used the Norton Removal Tool. I then reinstalled 30 V! from my original disk (you can't download v1 any more - only v2). All of the updates have been applied and everything is working just fine. Right click is OK and my backups have legitimate file and folder names.
Has anyone else experienced similar problems or is this some quirk of my computer (HP dv600t). Thanks.
BillN,
I am one of the engineers on backup, and your feedback is definitely helpful. It sounds like you understand the reasoning behind the format we've used to back files up in N360 v2.0 but that you're still concerned with potentially losing your data in the event of a harddrive crash. There are always remedies for restoring your files, however.
First and foremost, any machine that has Norton 360 2.0 installed will be able to restore your locally backed up files. So if you're backing up to a removable hard drive or to a network share and the machine you were backing up crashes, you have several options:
1.) repair/re-install windows on the machine, reinstall N360 2.0 and then restore
2.) plug your external hard drive (or map a network drive to your network share) into another machine that has N360 2.0 installed and restore the files you need to the other machine.
Additionally, we're incorporating all sorts of user feedback into the product for future versions and we're working towards a solution that is both secure in the format that we store it in and is also highly intuitive and accessible for the user who wants to restore their files (even in the scenario of a hardware failure.)
Regards,
Adam
Adam:
What about my problem of not being able to backup all the desired folders/files? Version 2 installed on my machine did not add all of the subfolders to the "other" category and did not allow me to add anything additional once 23.6 gb had been reached. There was plenty of room on the external backup drive so space was not an issue. I am really concerned about this and want to try and resolve it before installing version 2 again.
Bill
Bill,
Without inspecting the machine I can't say for certain, but I can provide you with some insight as to what is going on and what the issue might be.
Was the "Other" category checked off? The files wouldn't be counted in this scenario.
Additionally, how many of the files in the folders you added were already picked up in the scan for files? Norton 360 v2.0 classifies files slightly differently from 1.0. In 1.0 all files that were added specifically by the user were considered to be "Other" files. However, in N360 v2.0 when you add files they are categorized based on the type of file and any files that don't fit into a pre-defined category go into "Other".
So if you added a folder and it has all .doc files, the documents category would increase, not the "other" category. Therefore, if the files you added were in a folder that was already being scanned by N360 and where already picked up in a category then the size would not have change when you added them because then some files would be double counted.
The best test would be to run the backup and then go into the Restore UI and check to see if any of the files you added specifically are missing. It's a bit painstaking, but the search functionality should make it easier (you can just search by path if you hit the checkbox to do so, then just search for your folder name.)
Hope this helps, let me know if there is any more that I can do,
Adam
I was very upset to discover just today, that Norton 360 Version 2 has changed the way Norton 360 saves backup files. Unlike Version 1 which saved backup files as a mirror image as to what was on my C: drive as an immediately readable file exactly as it is on my c: drive, Norton 360 version 2 only saves the backup files in a non-readable encrypted backup format only. This change is not noted in your literature that I could find and I was not warned of this change when I did an automatic update that switched me from Version 1 to Version 2. I just spent more than 7 hours online with Norton's chat tech support and in rebooting, re-running an in just dealing with trying to find out why I couldn't read my backup files on my external G drive anymore. The second Norton tech support person finally told me about Version 2's change to encrypted only files. In my opinion, this change is terrible and totally doesn't address my needs. I was also told by Norton's chat tech guy that the only way I could get the ability to immediately read my backup files again was to uninstall Norton 360 v2 and reinstall Version 1, but I now learn from reading elsewhere on this website that Version 1 is no longer available as a download on Norton's site, so even that option is not available (even if it were I was told that I could not upgrade the Version 1 features.)
I am an attorney and I need to immediately be able to see a mirror image of the documents and other files I have saved as backup files on my external drive. I use my backup files in various ways, including as duplicate, second copies to save, or I can take my external portable G: Firelite drive with me on a trip without taking my laptop, etc., etc. By switching to encrypted only backup files Norton 360 Version 2 deprives me of my ability to do any of those things. Worse, it deprives me of the ability to immediately check myself to see if the backup files are full and complete and accurate as I can no longer have immediate readable access to my backup files.
I was only just told by Norton's chat tech support person that there is now no way I can do a backup and have immediately readable files and that the only way to make Version 2's encrypted backup files "readable" was to do a "restore" and restore these encrypted backup files to the C: drive on the computer I saved them from, but this I won't do as it is a terrible liability risk as then I am having to trust that what Norton 360 Version 2 has saved as encrypted files is accurate and complete otherwise, if for any reason whatsoever, it's not, I will have overwritten good files. This is frought with potential legal problems, liability for me, etc. It is also, in my opinion, putting Norton at risk as well.
I also only just learned today that even the Version 2 encrypted files when restored can only be restored to the computer they were taken off of. This presents a huge set of other problems, e.g. what if that computer has suffered a malfunction? What if I just want to transfer the backup files to another computer for some reason, etc.?
I am taking the time to exlain all of this on this website to you so perhaps, just perhaps, the team leader on this site at Norton will PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE -- TELL YOUR DEVELOPMENT TEAM TO IMMEDIATELY ISSUE A NEW VERSION 3 THAT EITHER GOES BACK TO IMMEDIATELY READABLE BACKUP FILES AS VERSION 1 DID, OR, GIVES YOUR CUSTOMERS THE OPTION TO ELECT WHICH BACKUP FORMAT THEY WISH TO SAVE THEIR FILES IN, E.G. IMMEDIATELY READABLE MIRROR IMAGE BACKUP FILE FORMAT OR ENCRYPTED BACKUP FILE FORMAT. Otherwise, I feel you have given me no choice but to switch to a competitor vendor of Norton's for my backup and security needs. Sorry, but Norton has caused me enormous grief on this one; I simply can't believe your development team did this. What were they thinking? Even if encrypted files are more stable, you are ignoring the real world usage of backup files.
Well said. I completely agree that this encrypted backup is a step backward for most users. If the developers of Norton 360 want to have en encrypted backup for security reasons (for those users who need to have that security), then let that be an option. That way, an organization that has a need for secure, encrypted files can check off that choice. Otherwise, the users who wish to have a unencrypted, directory and file specific backup (I suspect that this represents the majority of users) will be able to have a version 1 type backup to an external or network drive where the files would be visible to other computers with access to that network drive. This would also be much faster as well to set up (as evidenced by V1 vs.. V2).
I have not reinstalled my copy of version 2 and my version 1 license expires in a few days. If I don't see any acceptable solution from Norton, I plan to use another backup program to backup my files and then just backup a bare minimum of files with N360 just to prevent the software from yelling at me. The question that will then arise is whether or not I should continue to use N360 in the future since I will not be using the backup feature. I can then find some other vendor to provide Internet security, antivirus and firewall capability.
BillN and jphilli8,
Just wanted to drop a note to give you some insight and background on this issue. The purpose for not storing the files as plain data with the file name is primarily for security. If one of your disks is stolen, or your accidentally drop the USB key that you have been backing up to, do you want any one who picks it up to be able to read your data? Also, if you work on multi-user machines, do you want a non-adminstrator to be able to read administrator's files once they are copied on to backup media? These privacy and security concerns really pushed us in the direction of ending the practice of writing files plainly to the backup media.
That being said, we hear what you're saying. We are actively working on developing new features that will give you the best of both worlds. You will be able to back up files in a more secure manner, and you will also have a means to browse those files through Windows Explorer as if they were just sitting on your machine in plain data. We are also working on a number of other usability features and utilities so that you aren't stuck with data on a disk that you can't retrieve and utilize.
Let me know if you have any more questions,
Adam
jphilli8 - In response to your concern that the data may not be copied correctly to the backup media (you said you used to check by opening the file) I am happy to inform you that there is a "verify all backups" checkbox in the backup configuration in the "Where to Back Up" page. If this is checked Norton 360 will copy the file and then validate that the bits that were copied to the destination are the same as the ones in the original file. If they are not, you will see a failure in backup that will alert you to the issue and the file will be backed up again next time backup is run.
This is my first visit to this site. So glad I found you although after reading about backups I'm feeling a little numb and depressed. Wasted time and money. I spent the last two weeks or so worrying because I couldn't find my backed up files on my portable hard drive. Google search found you. So my computer isn't acting up again and the drive still works it's 360 V2. Bummer. This won't work at all. I am only a retired genealogy buff but I can't chance loosing all these pictures and records and knowing they are encrypted on a hard drive is useless or perhaps one step above. I used 360 for the last year and loved it. It's my renewal that I can't use.
Couple questions. First, can I reinstall the old one with the extended virus protection?
Second. Was this change explained anywhere ahead of time? In fact, is it explained anywhere other than this forum? I read the new manual and see nothing about it. Great magazine reviews don't mention it or else I missed it. Got online support from Symantec and was not told about it. When I stated I haven't been able to see my backed up files on the hard drive nothing was mentiioned. Instead support took control of my computer and set it for full backups. After I did a full backup and still couldn't find any documents on the drive newer than two weeks ago I started googleing and found you.
mmn,
With N360 v2.0 the best way to determine if your files have been backed up is to go into the Restore UI and check that the files you are expecting to be backed up have been (there is a search page that lets you search by file type, name or directory.) Additionally, I am pleased to inform you that the feedback from these forums is really helping to guide our decisions moving forward. For the next release we are working on ways to improve the usability of backup without sacrificing any of the additional functionality added in v2.0
Regards,
Adam
Thanks for such a quick response, Adam. Good to know there is someone out there. I'm glad users comments are worked into new upgrades but in the meantime I'm back to dragging files to the backup drive. Sometimes more is less.
Marlene (Norton, by the way, but no connectiion)
Adam,
With respects to your comment
"Additionally, we're incorporating all sorts of user feedback into the product for future versions and we're working towards a solution that is both secure in the format that we store it in and is also highly intuitive and accessible for the user who wants to restore their files (even in the scenario of a hardware failure.)"
See my post " Not happy with 360v2 back up file format"
MRJacobs
I STRONGLY agree with BillN, jphilli8, and others in this thread regarding the file names and formats in version 2 N360 backups.
I had a ticket open with Symantec on 1.3 (whole 'nother issue) and was told the fix was to go to v2. It wasn't, but that's another story.
Then I couldn't believe my eyes when I went to just visually confirm my backup through windows explorer. I thought it was some sort of error till I found this thread.
It boggles my mind that such a change would be made to the software that so significantly affects the user and how the software is employed, with no option to make it comparable. What were they thinking????
That said, I have a bunch of questions, of the kind you sort of need to know if you're backup isn't going to be a total waste of time.
1) REason for change is said to be security. If all I need is a copy of Norton 360 to crack open the backup, that's not much for security. Is that the real reason, and if it is, does the backup have to be opened using Norton with the same license key, customer account id, product serial number or whatever?
2) Now I have this unreadable(to me) backup, what exactly do I need to to to decrypt it?
3) If my PC just crashed, I might want to load my backed up files on my son's PC, he has Norton Internet Security rather than 360; is there any way to do that?
4) I might want to load it on another family or co-worker PC, that may not have Norton at all. Or I may want to go buy a new PC, and get my data back really fast on that. Can I do this without loading Norton? Can I do it at all?
5) I may want to use any PC in the world, plug in my usb hard drive, and just find one or two files that I really, really need quickly. What do I do then?
What possible reason was there for making a change like this to the software? And why not offer a user option?
I have just a couple more questions and comments on this issue, after looking and trying to understand this thing a bit more.
Please tell me if I'm getting this right.
It looks like the way to view and restore a backup is to open Norton 360 and select Restore Files under the Backup option.
Then you get an ability to either restore all files or to search for specific files or folders by name.
So apparently I have to have Norton 360 2.0 on the PC to restore, and it doesn't need to be my version of Norton 360 (no license key or user account check). Right?
I can choose to restore all files or I can search the backup by name, but I cannot search by content of the file (words in a document) or simply browse the backup hierarchially; both of which I could have done before with my 1.3 backup. (still correct?)
I can select files to restore, but I can't simply open a file to look at it. (for example a word document) (could do that before)
I can specify a restore location, including an external drive, so I guess that's a somewhat painful workaround for this flaw. I can run my backup and restore it to an external hard drive right away.
I keep multiple generations of backups on an external hard drive, but when I go to restore, I can't select which backup generation to use. I can only select the drive, and then it automatically picks the backup version with the name N360_Backup (apparently) (still on track?)
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I think I just listed about 8 ways in which the new backup is functionally inferior to the old backup, and the only reason given for the change is security. This is an absurd reason. Security is very important, but apparently the only thing a bad person would need to do to open up my data is to buy Norton 360 2.0. That's not securing my data at all. Now if you were really encrypting the backup with a uniqe key of some kind, that would be an even bigger pain, but at least it would be a legitimate security argument.
And why in heaven's name can't the customer have a choice?
Just to keep backup issues in one place, allow me to remind the community of the problems that I described in this thread. Online backup is the main reason why I bought N360 and it worked OK for me in V1. Changes made in V2 make it totally unusable for me and, so I believe, for most people.
What's broken in V2 is the ability to backup only specified folders. In V1, I could uncheck all the categories (pictures, documents etc) and then use "Add a folder" to specify the folders that I want backed up. In V2, I uncheck the categories as before. But then, when I use "add a folder", the "pictures" and "documents" checkboxes become checked again, presumably because there were pictures and documents in the folder that I just added. I can't leave "pictures" and "documents" checked because that means backing up all documents and pictures - maybe 100 GB in my case. But when I uncheck them again, that excludes pictures and documents also from the folders that I added.
I suspect that my use case must be fairly typical. If you're backing up online, you're not going to back up everything, that's simply too much data. You're going to backup essential financial / legal / medical documents. And you probably keep these documents in a few folders. Without the ability to backup all files in specified folders, online backup is fatally flawed.
Another problem introduced by V2 is its insistance on scanning your entire hard drive every time you go into the backup settings GUI, leaving you staring at that little "Norton 360 is searching your system for files to back up" message before it lets you change the settings. In my case, that took 3 hours on the first visit and 45 minutes on subsequent visits. Don't count on getting any work done during this time because N360 consumes nearly all CPU in the process. Moreover, there is a massive memory leak: 1 GB virtual memory size, which is only freed up when you reboot. With 2 x 750 GB drives, I may be a bit of an extreme case. But remember: V1 did not have this problem.
Add me to the list of users that have issues with the version 2 file format. Thanks to Google, I found this as I did not see it in the Norton 360 version 2 manual and I heard no mention of it on the changes in 360 podcast that I just listened to yesterday.
The encryption is a nice feature to have, but it should be just that, a feature, not the only way to backup the files.
There is clearly a need to have both methods, and to have them both very soon. Had I known this was going to be new to version 2, I would have found another backup and security solution.
I have the same problem, and wasted 1 hour with the "online chat" and "remote desktop control" with their customer support.
I issued a case for a 50% money back for this product.
Post from Jakster moved to its own thread for better exposure.
bonmot wrote:
I have the same problem, and wasted 1 hour with the "online chat" and "remote desktop control" with their customer support.
I issued a case for a 50% money back for this product.
I apologize; which same problem do you have? Any details about the backup issue would be helpful. Thanks!