Speed of Browsing (especially Firefox) - can you explain how NF works

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1

HI  

 

I have been using NF for about two years, and I know that there have been specific cases where issues with NF servers have slowed down everyone's web browsing.  However, I am still in the position where the speed of my browsing is much slower when NF is installed than when it is not.  I'm an IT Security and Architecture professional so I am pretty aware of the possible reasons for this.  My assumption based on the previous issues - is tha NF actually works like a transparent proxy server and that all web browsing from my PCs is actually routed through the NF filtering servers.  That being said then performance for me (based in the United Kingdom) will depend entirely on where these servers are in relation to the web sites I want to access.  For example web sites in America are between 100 & 150 miliseconds away from me - but ones in the UK are (without NF) just 20-30.  If my browsing now goes via the US then my UK web sites are now going to be between 200 & 300 miliseconds away.

 

Those of us who work in IT will know that any latency (this is what the delay of traversing a network cable is called) that is more than 250ms will cause most interactive web pages to slow down in a noticable way.  This is why most international organisations providing interactive content (ActiveX, Java, Complex GUIs etc) will have servers in at least three continents (US - Europe and Asia Pacific) and use clever internet based load balancing systems (like 3DNS) to ensure that you contact the nearest servers to you.

 

Could I please ask NF to explain how their system works - so that I (and hopefully others reading this outside of the USA) can make a reasonable judgement about whether the service (especially Premium which does interest) me is worth sticking with or even upgrading to.

 

For me personally - I also want to point out that I do suffer from some other well known issues in this forum - which could be contributing to my issues so I would also appreciate any help available with solving these.  These include - Firefox being very slow, and frequent messages about browser plugins being disabled - but because I also have the other issue about machine names not making any sense I don't know which machine these are on.  Would be more than happy for a remote support session to check these other issues out.

 

PS - I am on latest versions on all systems 5.20...

2

Hi madmuso,

 

Thanks for the inquiry.   Can you please let us know what security product(s)  and version(s) you have on the PC?

 

What operating system is running on the PC?

 

Please also let us know what version of Firefox you have.

 

Thanks,

Katie

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Hi - Installed I have:

Norton Internet Security: Version: 21.1.0.18
Norton Family

Version 2.9.5.20

Framework Version: 5.0.0.51

Datastore Version 5.0.0.51

Search Signature Version: 2.9.5.20

Social Networking Signature Version: 2.9.5.20

I also have Microsoft Family Safety installed - I used this to specifically contol use os WIndows Live Features.

No other security tools installed currently although I have used MalwareBytes occasionally

Windows 7 64Bit

Firefox: 26.0

Chrome: Version 31.0.1650.63 m

 

But please note my point that without NF - the whole browsing experience is much quicker and this slowness is for all users regardless of whether NF is monitorin the account or not..  

 

I know that many people watching this forum would also be interested to get an answer to my questions about the achitecture of the NF solution.

 

4

Hi madmuso,

 

Thanks for the update. If you have multiple parental control programs enabled on the PC, it might interfere with the performance of Norton Family.  Can you please try to have Microsoft Family Safety disabled or uninstalled temporarily to see if it helps to speed up Web browsing?

 

 

Thanks,

Katie

 

 

5

I will give that a go since the need to use Window Family Safety is less now that it can't control messenger (now messenger is replaced with Skype).   However I want to make a few points here...

 

1)   NF speficially committed a few years back they they were and would be compatiable with Windows Family Safety.

2)   Any chance you could answer the original question - or at least explain why you are ignoring it,  As a reminder it was...

 

My assumption based on the previous issues - is tha NF actually works like a transparent proxy server and that all web browsing from my PCs is actually routed through the NF filtering servers.  That being said then performance for me (based in the United Kingdom) will depend entirely on where these servers are in relation to the web sites I want to access.  For example web sites in America are between 100 & 150 miliseconds away from me - but ones in the UK are (without NF) just 20-30.  If my browsing now goes via the US then my UK web sites are now going to be between 200 & 300 miliseconds away.

 

Those of us who work in IT will know that any latency (this is what the delay of traversing a network cable is called) that is more than 250ms will cause most interactive web pages to slow down in a noticable way.  This is why most international organisations providing interactive content (ActiveX, Java, Complex GUIs etc) will have servers in at least three continents (US - Europe and Asia Pacific) and use clever internet based load balancing systems (like 3DNS) to ensure that you contact the nearest servers to you.

 

Could I please ask NF to explain how their system works - so that I (and hopefully others reading this outside of the USA) can make a reasonable judgement about whether the service (especially Premium which does interest) me is worth sticking with or even upgrading to.

 

Getting a little more frustrated!  and my hand is getting closer to the uninstall button... (and that will include all of Nortons products) :smileyfrustrated::smileyfrustrated:

 

6

Hi madmuso,

 

Thanks for your inquiry and patience.  I've checked with our Norton Family development team and here is  their explanation on how Norton Family works.  If you have any further question, please let us know.

 

 

Norton Family intercepts outbound network traffic and categorize URL using our categorization servers.  The returned category will be checked against the

policy settings (As defined by user in portal), the client will allow or block the URL based on policy settings. Categorization servers are present in US.

 

 

Thanks,

Katie

 

 

 

7

Thanks KatieQ - so our traffic does not flow via US... Can I ask followup-

 

How often are US servers contacted?

 

a)   Every our computer browser requests a URL (ie. every time we enter one in the URL bar, or a web page does a look up to an referred URL

b)   Same as a) but it caches things we have already looked up

c)   It keeps details on all URLs locally in the policy

 

Or some other combination...

 

Also on my personal issue - I have uninstalled Windows Family Safety and not really noticed a major change - there is possibly a slight improvement.  I also have Netgear Genie installed - which I wondered if you had any experience of it causing any issues.  I don't have the OpenDNS based filtering turned on but I see it has some clever technology built in around DNS lookups that could perhaps be interacting with NF?

 

If you check my other posts you will see I also have issues with NF getting disabled.   Could there be some kind of underlying problem that you need to help me fix?

 

Will try a full insinstall of NF again and see if there is still a big difference in browsing speeds...

 

Thanks

8

Hi,

 

I would like to add some comments based on my experiences. I am located in Germany. Apparently, there is a significant delay until the US-based policy server is able to provide the o.k. for a certain site. Watching the status bar in Seamonkey it is often hanging in the "connecting" status (several SECONDS, not milliseconds), then suddenly the file is loading. For larger sites having 100s of pieces to be loaded this way this behavior is almost stopping the site from being displayed.

 

BUT, there is a second issue, which is really disappointing: Obviously, this behavior is not limited to Windows accounts being monitored (i.e.. children accounts). It happens with all users including parents and admin accounts. I have tried to kill the NF.exe. process from the Task Manager. No surprise: Suddenly, everything is fast again. If I kill it right after approaching a complex news site, this site will then immediately load, without killing it it will last 10 to 20 seconds to load. Another stupid example: Approaching the homepage of my local network router/internet bridge also triggers a request from NF.exe to the policy server. The answer from the server is not even cached, the delay during "connecting" happens everytime I am hitting "reload".

 

Lessons learnt:

1) From Europe the repose time for the policy server is completely inappropriate,

2) NF.exe is not only monitoring/blocking nominated accounts but all accounts on a Windows computer

 

Both behaviors are suggesting, that Norton Family is not yet a well developed and mature product. Without a fixes for these two issues I will definitively switch to other vendors ...

 

Regards,

db

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Thanks so much db_family.  I wondered if I was going mad - speed is such a hard thing to measure.  I should have tried some tools like you mention to see what you have discovered.  It all makes sense though.  Thanks for your efforts with Seamonkey.

 

Well I hit the uninstall buttons yesterday - and life is back to normal.  So this is my plan based on my research so far.

 

For now I am using OpenDns customised by NetGear to provide basic protection to all the systems on the network.  Unfortunately their bypass system to allow adults (or perhaps teens) to have temporary or timed access at higher levels can only be used by people don't want to control.  To log in as a bypass user you have to supply the routers admin password!  See this thread for how it got me and others...

https://support.opendns.com/entries/25193509-User-Bypass-for-iphones-ipads-etc-Multiple-kids-

 

So I am trying the Qustodio product - speed issues are resolved but so far it is unusable for operational reasons - at least with teenagers...  Issues I have asked them to explain so far

1) Why no warnings that time is running out - machine just locks

2) Once the account is locked how to I add more time - why can't I unlock the PC and enter a password to get just a few more minutes so I can at least have my kids save their data and then log off cleanly (compounds issue 1)

3) Why can't I disable the timing (or extend it) without also having to disable the protection

 

I can get around 2) by extending the time on their web portal but I then have to remember to put it back (especially at curfew times)

I can get around 3) by using OpenDNS to block the worst stuff.  I'll see what they come back with and let you know.

 

Also don't be fooled by the iPAD controls - you have to use their browser which I hear is not great (and uninstall or diable the other browsers).  This might work for a kids iPAD but teenagers need the real apps to work.  Again OpenDNS is a work around I am trying.

 

What I really want is a router that controls internet access time on all the devices, if possible controls internet access times by category and timing, but that has the simplistic overrides that NF has (NF at least seems to get that bit right).  Like a hotel or other public wifi - each child has their individual login and password which totals up usage on each device they have connected.

 

I also want some time control of PC usage.  Ideally I want total time on all devices Android, Xbox, PS, Nintendo, iPad, IPod, IPhone - but that is probably nervana - can't imagine how you would get session control on all those devices from one product!

 

I am beginning to wonder if a locked cabinet with physical keys and a hand written timesheet (monitored by video camera of course) is the answer.

 

Meanwhile time to try some other tools

10

Hi madmuso & db_family,

 

Thanks for your feedback.  I'll pass along  your suggestions and inquiries to the team.

 

 

Thanks,

Katie

11

Katie,

 

could you please provide us with an update to what extent your colleagues have made progress with solving that issue?

 

Thanks,

Daniel

 

12

Hi db_family,

 

We’re addressing the impact to non-bound users in our next major release.

 

We have not seen the performance issue.  If you are interested in having a remote session with us, please send me a private message via the forum.

 

 

Thanks,

Katie