Symantec has business relationship with NRA

Archive
21

Everyone Please keep in mind that Frank does not speak for most Vets.  Frank was in for 3 years as an administration assistant, not 20 years (or more) like most of us.  Frank speaks for the Far-Far-Left.  Frank has no more right to speak for Vets than I do for Communist, Socialist or Nazis, and I find him personally insulting.  He reminds me of Pentagon during the Viet Nam Era.  I was in 1980-2001.  He does try to rewrite history. 

Citizens can and have stood up to a corrupt Gov't.  Fortunately, guns are not always necessary.  When a Gov't becomes too corrupt, a course correction is necessary.  I believe that is what we are seeing with the election of POTUS Trump. 

22

Frank,

I only have a couple of minutes so I will be brief.

You made good points. I used to think that if we got an out of control government that it would be futile to go up against the military. Then I realized that we do not have a military class in this country. We have citizen soldiers. Even lifers still live at the same level of society as us civilians. Virtually all of the military has civilian family and extended family. I can't conceive of a situation where the military would end up in major battles with the public. I guess that at sometime in the future we could degrade into some dystopian society where this could happen. That is why I say it is so important that we stay engaged in being good voting citizens.

By the way, I wanted to go into the Air Force after graduating from high school but I flunked the physical with a minor heart condition. Viet Nam had not gotten started yet and they really didn't need many kids. A few years later I got a pilots license on my own and when the FAA questioned my medical certificate, my doctor, who had been a doctor in the Navy on an aircraft carrier said he had two Naval Aviators with the same condition. I then was back on flight status. I still wish I would have been accepted in the AF.

 

23

Morgan Riley,

Oh I'm buying alright...but I'm buying big hop double IPAs.  Bravo hops.

Yes, gun safety is paramount.  In the military, we learn respect for the weapon, and we count on every member of the military to do his/her part for safety.   And... in the military, every single member is screened to see if they have the mental and psychological makeup to ensure gun safety.  And every member has to prove weapon proficiency in order to bear a weapon.  And every member will be denied a weapon when those factors change.

Since we are all part of the militia.... a "well-regulated militia" as stated in the 2nd Amendment, we -- the militia -- should have standards as close to the military standards as possible.  This is not that difficult... see the example of Switzerland.  Generals David Petraeus and retired US Army Gen Stanley McChrystal agreed with this when they were part of a new veterans initiative to reduce gun violence.

The Veterans Coalition for Common Sense.

Your historical vignettes are often repeated fallacies.  They are repeated enough that it is easy to believe them.  While condensed, look to Snopes for clarity on this.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/gunhistory.asp

But perhaps the greatest gun myth is that an armed citizenry will prevent government tyranny.   It won't.  As a military planner, I can assure you, the citizenry having arms is literally no match for a strong military.  Not even close.   That does not mean that an armed citizenry could not have an insurgency... much like Afghanistan today.  But no, the citizens could not in any effective manner fight back.   Different means -- namely the voting booth -- have to be utilized to keep a citizenry safe from its own government.   A study of history shows the types of governments that citizens should avoid to not be in a position where the government becomes tyrannical.   Extreme Nationalism seems to be a common first step to tyranny.  Study history to verify this.

With over 33,000 gun deaths annually, the US has a policy problem.  To allow this to continue with no action is unconscionable.   I won't go into what measure I believe should be instituted... but I'll repeat, we are all members of the militia.  A well-regulated militia.  Let's make it as close to military standards as possible.  Everybody screened.  Everybody proven safe and proficient. 

Vox lays out the problem and need for regulation very well.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/2/17050610/guns-shootings-studies-rand-charts-maps

The NRA resists all regulation and spreads lies and conspiracy theories.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/02/26/the-nra-is-losing-its-grip-on-reality-and-on-politicians/?utm_term=.aa55cf4d8753

And I support you having a firearm for personal protection.  Just as long as you are the right person with the right mental, emotional, and physical traits to use the weapon effectively and to not hurt or kill somebody else or yourself by lack of bearing or skill.

I'm all for guns.  I own guns.  But over 33,000 fellow citizens annually should not die because we can't seem to properly regulate them.  We are the only 1st world country in the world with the per-capita problem that we have.  It's time to get rid of the NRA and those beholden to it who oppose all sensible regulation.  

When guns are regulated properly, you and your family are safer as well as me and mine.

Your Well-Armed Militia Buddy,

-Frank

 

24

Frank V,

Thank you for your kind words. I would like to share a beer with you, especially if you are buying (Dos Equis Amber).

You said in one of your posts that you own guns and are proficient in the use of those guns. By the way -Thank's for your Service. In becoming proficient in the use of those guns, I am sure that you also have the gun safety rules rigidly drilled into your brain as I have. You know the answer to the question, "is that weapon loaded?" and the proper response, "yes sir (or mam)" . A gun should always be treated as if is loaded. These, and all of the safety rules are part of the NRA safety training.

I hope, and I believe, since you are a well educated and thoughtful person, that you agree that the gun rights that we have in the United States are not common throughout the rest of the world. This is a right that was paid for in the blood of the original patriots and intentionally guaranteed to us by the framers of the Constitution, codified in the Second Amendment. It was considered important enough to be part of the Bill of Rights.

I have been hearing rumblings of "repeal the 2nd Amendment" in the hopes of "ridding the country of guns." I believe you understand the danger of this. The NRA is the only organization strong enough to hopefully stand in the way.

Hitler and the Nazis began their campaign of "ridding the world of the Jewish Problem" in 1938. Do you remember Kristallnacht and the Nuremberg Rallies and their aftermath? Of course, you don't. You and I weren't alive then. Very few people who could remember those events are alive today. Hitler and his regime completely controlled who could own guns. Of course, Jews were not on that list. Thirteen million helpless Jews were systematically rounded up and exterminated by the Hitler regime. The motoes of Israel today are, "Remember" and "Never Again". They understand, on a visceral level what despotic leaders and weakness can and will lead to.

There are more examples. China (partly under Mao Tze Tung) confiscated the guns of the people and slaughtered twenty million citizens. The Soviet Union and Josef Stalin confiscated the guns of the selected people and slaughtered twenty million people. Pol Pot selectively confiscated the guns and killed one million people. Idi Amin confiscated the guns and killed two hundred thousand.

Most people in the United States today say, "our government would never do that to us." I do not agree. I can say only that right at this moment they would not. It is our duty as citizens to make sure that they never do. Do not ever give the government absolute power. It is our duty as citizens to keep that power in check. Pay attention to what is happening, get involved, VOTE!

If the Second Amendment is eliminated, the First Amendment will soon fall and the rest of the Constitution would soon disappear. Both of them are in peril right now. I just saw on the news that Milo Yianopoulos' speech tonight was cancelled because of death threats. This is just one of many cases where peoples' First Amendment rights to free speech are being denied. Is our government doing anything to protect our First Amendment rights? Will they guarantee our Second Amendment rights in the future?

Just as important as the above considerations, the ability to protect my family and myself is just as important. I detailed in a previous post the event that changed me from a gun agnostic to a gun owner. My wife and I were miles from help when a potential "bad guy" confronted us. In an instant, I understood that I am responsible for my own and my family's protection. Law informant would have only been able to put us in body bags and start an investigation. That is why I got a hand gun and started what has been continuous training. Since then I also went through the training and got a concealed carry permit. I just pray that I will never have to draw my weapon except for training and cleaning of the weapon. I also don't want the last thought of my life to be, "I wish I was armed." More important, I could never live with myself if I was not able to protect my family if we were ever attacked.

 

25

sonoma234,

There is no danger that HR 5087 will pass.

Really... it has no chance.

So just keep calm and carry on.

Your Pal,

-Frank5

26

Frank5 help us STOP HR 5087 the weapons shopping list

common sense say there's no compromise to a ban on the possession, sale or transfer of most semiautomatic rifles and shotguns as well as many semiautomatic pistols currently in production. 

27

I would almost never respond to an NRA-type... but Morgan Riley... you are the exception.  I can tell that you have intellect.  You are rare in your crowd.

To some degree, I'm playing Colbert -- to make a point.  Usually, it is your crowd that does aspects of exactly what I'm doing.   Just without the reasoning or intellect. 

But I don't want to leave character too long... as there is no advantage to doing so.

I actually debated in college, and your challenge would not be much for me.  

But I do appreciate your post.  It would be good to sit down over a beer and discuss this with you.  

I think we'd actually come to a respectable understanding of divergent viewpoints.

You seem to be the exception.  

Cheers.

 

-Frank

 

 

28

Frank V,

You claim to be of "high intellect" and you cast aspersions on us lowly NRA members. I spent my career in Computer Engineering (hardware and operating system software) and have worked with people of true genius (high intellect). That was even attributed to me by some people, but I was always uncomfortable with that attribution. You see, true genius or high intellect isn't something that you proclaim, but is from the judgement of your peers. The only "giant" of the industry that was an exception that I experienced was Edsger Dijkstra. I spent two weeks in a company sponsored class that he taught. He was a real genius but also very pompous and aware of his own stature. He is the only exception that I know of. It may have just been his European style of teaching, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Some of the real geniuses would require secretarial help in their writings - good grammar and/or spelling are not necessarily signs of genius.

I think there may be hope for you. I have been thinking about it and I have a challenge for you.

If you would like to actually help make some progress in solutions for the problem with gun violence in the United States, you must drop the "school yard bully mentality", stop the "NRAtard and NRAhole" type comments, and really listen. Sit down at your computer, open up Microsoft Word or what ever word processor you choose, and compose an argument in favor of the NRA. Put away all of your preconceptions, stay away from the internet, turn off CNN, and try as hard as you can to compose a document of support for the NRA. Pretend that you are on a debate team in a National Championship. When your are finished, put it away over night, and then open it up and read it. If you happen to become intellectually honest, then you will at least be able to contribute to the discussion, one way or the other.

I have hope for you, buddy.

29

I would encourage Frank V to keep doing what he is doing. His name calling and lame attempts to discredit the NRA, I think, is encouraging many more supporters of the 2A to cancel Norton than would otherwise be the case.

He says “good riddance” and I agree. Personally I think the more that cancel the better to send a message to Symantec that they should have stuck to business rather than take a PUBLIC stand against the NRA and therefore the 2A. I didn’t even know they offered an NRA discount nor did I care. They could have quietly discontinued the discount but instead chose to go public in an attempt to discredit the NRA and its members.

So I say keep it up taco Frank V. You are the best spokesperson one could hope for to encourage a boycott and send a message to Symantec. I’m sure Symantec loves you. I know I do!

By the way, I see you are pretty much the only one on this forum bad mouthing the NRA. PLEASE keep it up.

You best buddy

30

Frank V (a.k.a Taco) is a real interesting study in psychology. His posts demonstrate the characteristics of a schoolyard bully. He has, on several posts, claimed high intellect, but his posts demonstrate the opposite. Name calling and wild accusations pretty much end substantive discussion. He obviously searches the internet to comb through the liberal attacks on the Second Amendment and posts his cherry picked results (sprinkling in his usual name calling). I usually just laugh at him and occasionally comment. When he posted that he owns guns, I woke up to a frightening reality.

I would really like to have an honest discussion on the current subject. People like Frank make that impossible.

31

Dear Symantec, Norton, Etc ... YOU chose to enter the Political discussion when you made a political decision regarding punishing NRA members.  To say otherwise is hypocrisy.  

32

Liberty was won with guns, not protests ie: Boston Massacre.  The NRA has always been on the right side of the gun debate. Standing up for the rights of the citizens and calling for the enforcement of the laws already on the books and keeping the mentality ill from obtaining guns. They even authored the Brady Bill.  Educating millions of children about the danger of firearms and what to do if they encounter one. The left wing media and their political allies have for years been spreading misinformation about them.  I have cancelled my auto renewal. I wont support a company that's willing to take sides that go against the rights of American citizens.      

33

News Update-

According to Frank's California link, REI never sold guns.  What is REI cutting off, lol. 

Frank, Can you admit that 95% of gun violence is taking place in gun free zones?  FYI:  I'm 20yr retired US military.  Some are better shots than I.  Some are worse.  What does taking away the 1st or 2nd amendment do for public safety? 

You are welcome. 

34

Frank V,

Your statement "The best available evidence suggests NRA-backed gun policies are making crime worse" is total Bull.

Read the study and you will see the actual facts. 

Of course you and your left wing don't want the facts. And that includes the Washington Post.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis.html

Jim

35

Frank,

Your source is "Page Not Found.  The page may have moved or may no longer be available. " on the Washingtonpost website.

Interesting that you use name calling to attack anyone voicing their opinion and use name calling to attack the 1st and 2nd amendment supporters. 

Frank, Can you acknowledge that these shootings is happening in "gun free zones"?  You attack the 1st and 2nd amendments of the United States   Shameful!!!

36

Interesting Symantec wants to reduce individual freedoms because of school shooting.  Socialist, Communist and Fascist look for any reason to eliminate freedoms. 

1)  Banks and Gov't buildings have armed guards.  Maybe we should do the same around schools?

2)  (Both) Parents need to raise their children and be responsible for their children. 

37

Symantec now has just 24 days to make a public statement reversing their anti-NRA policy before I switch to McAfee.

38

I used Norton since the 90s. No longer will they get my money.

39

I have been a member of both the NRA and Norton's for many years, but it appears that will come to an end. I'll give you two guess's as to which one will be dropped. Anyone that will condemn or attack the 2nd amendment which the NRA supports is no friend of mine. The NRA has not attacked nor killed anyone, in fact they promote gun safety. There is no justification for their attacking the NRA.

40

I will be ending my very long relationship with Nortons as I am an NRA supporter and they haven't killed anyone. Why don't you people boycott Planned Parenthood who has allegedly killed over 300,000 babies?