Unfair term in the licensing agreement

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
21
Tryer wrote:
ivan wrote:
if I get infected by a virus that would have been detected by NIS with the updates newer than mine then I would not blame Symantec.

It's a contentious world we live in and some might argue that Symantec are still liable. That aside, I can't understand why you'd want to use an out date security product. Is it more that you want to just raise the legality of the matter under discussion rather than to continue using NIS?

Some might argue that Symantec are still liable. I am not part of that "some". What you need to understand that not all functionalities of NIS need to be updated in order to be effective. The part that displays the network map, the part that blocks applications from accessing the internet and parental controls. Symantec is not obliged to provide feature and content updates, the software does not stop working if it does not receive updates for a certain period of time. 

22

Hi Ivan:

 

You said:

 

"What you need to understand that not all functionalities of NIS need to be updated in order to be effective. The part that displays the network map, the part that blocks applications from accessing the internet and parental controls. Symantec is not obliged to provide feature and content updates, the software does not stop working if it does not receive updates for a certain period of time."

 

To be fair, I tend to agree with you on this particular part!

 

Plankton

Message Edited by Plankton on 07-29-2009 02:27 PM
23

All components of the Norton Internet Security 2009 suite do have continuous updates throughout the subscription period.  All components.  Without these updates and corrections to the databases and rules of the suite's processes, the suite becomes unstable in the context of a dynamic operating and file system.  To keep your system stable you will have to disconnect for the outside world (internet or even a local network) and turn your system into a static device.  That is your choice of course.

 

Even if you did get the outcome you desire, you would have a unique software product that would still apply to the dynamic / static situation above.  Any updates from Microsoft to the OS would cause the system to become unstable since there would not be anyway to update the Norton processes and rules.  The same would apply to the other so called functions you believe would work without updates.  IPS, Spam, Parental Controls, SONAR, Network Monitoring and the Smart Firewall all get updates during the subscription period, to ensure continued functionality for the current subscribed products, due to changes in software from the outside (other than Norton / Symantec) .

 

I wish you success in your endeavor and good luck in keeping your system stable after that.  If you need any help, please feel free to come and ask for it anytime here.  Always glad to help out when we can.   

24
dbrisendine wrote:

All components of the Norton Internet Security 2009 suite do have continuous updates throughout the subscription period.  All components.  Without these updates and corrections to the databases and rules of the suite's processes, the suite becomes unstable in the context of a dynamic operating and file system.  To keep your system stable you will have to disconnect for the outside world (internet or even a local network) and turn your system into a static device.  That is your choice of course.

 

Even if you did get the outcome you desire, you would have a unique software product that would still apply to the dynamic / static situation above.  Any updates from Microsoft to the OS would cause the system to become unstable since there would not be anyway to update the Norton processes and rules.  The same would apply to the other so called functions you believe would work without updates.  IPS, Spam, Parental Controls, SONAR, Network Monitoring and the Smart Firewall all get updates during the subscription period, to ensure continued functionality for the current subscribed products, due to changes in software from the outside (other than Norton / Symantec) .

 

I wish you success in your endeavor and good luck in keeping your system stable after that.  If you need any help, please feel free to come and ask for it anytime here.  Always glad to help out when we can.   

I recognise that the suit may become unstable as everything changes around it. That's a risk I am willing to take, otherwise I wouldn't have started this whole thing in the first place. What I'd also like to know your opinion about is why do you think several other major Internet Security vendors allow the software to function beyond the expiration date of the subscription? I am talking about companies like McAfee, Kaspersky (link), ESET (link), Sophos and AVG (link) who say that the software will carry on working even after expiry. Are they doing it on purpose to put a customer's system at greater risk or are their products engineered more superior so they are less susceptible to causing instabilities? By allowing their product to continue functioning, those companies send a clear message that they are looking after the interests of the consumer and do not feel that their commercial interests are threatened if they allow the software to carry on working. What I don't understand is why Symantec has changed its stance and is going against the de facto standard when it comes to such situations.

Message Edited by ivan on 29-07-2009 09:28 PM
Message Edited by ivan on 29-07-2009 09:30 PM
25

I note with interest that your links to other vendors do not reference their actual EULA's.

 

Allow me to provide direct links to the EULA's of two vendors you mentioned, McAfee and AVG.

 

To quote from the McAfee EULA, section 3:

 

"Upon any termination or expiration of this Agreement, you must cease use of the Software and destroy all copies of the Software and the Documentation."

 

And to quote from the AVG EULA section 2c:

 

"On the expiration or termination of this Agreement, you will cease using the Software, AVG Technologies may cease making Updates available to you, and the Software may cease functioning."

 

Since you seem to have a great interest in the legality of such licensing agreements, I would like to pose a simple question.

 

If you had purchased a license for either of these products and agreed to the EULA, upon expiration of your license would you abide by the agreement and cease using the software?

 

[edit: grammar]

Message Edited by Phil_D on 07-29-2009 04:47 PM
26

I have used all of these packages, along with beta testing them before released to the public.  The reason for the choice is not that they are superior to others in protection or stability but a PR move to keep the product in the public eye.

27
Phil_D wrote:

I note with interest that your links to other vendors do not reference their actual EULA's.

 

Allow me to provide direct links to the EULA's of two vendors you mentioned, McAfee and AVG.

 

To quote from the McAfee EULA, section 3:

 

"Upon any termination or expiration of this Agreement, you must cease use of the Software and destroy all copies of the Software and the Documentation."

 

And to quote from the AVG EULA section 2c:

 

"On the expiration or termination of this Agreement, you will cease using the Software, AVG Technologies may cease making Updates available to you, and the Software may cease functioning."

 

Since you seem to have a great interest in the legality of such licensing agreements, I would like to pose a simple question.

 

If you had purchased a license for either of these products and agreed to the EULA, upon expiration of your license would you abide by the agreement and cease using the software?

 

[edit: grammar]

Message Edited by Phil_D on 07-29-2009 04:47 PM

Regarding McAfee, I called their support and enquired with them. Their engineer informed me that the software does not cease to be operational upon expiry of a subscription. Now he could be wrong, but the fact remains that McAfee do not aggresively pursue and disable the software themselves upon expiration of the agreement. They do, however, say that you would not get updates.

 

Regarding AVG, the EULA states that it MAY cease functioning, that's not the same as saying that it WILL cease functioning. Also, the AVG page that I linked to there is a 3-bulletpoint list of what the customers receive during their active license period. None of those 3 items state that during an active license period I receive a right to use the software. It does say so in the EULA, but there is still a discrepancy.

 

Regarding your question, if the software continues to be functional after the expiration then the only way that I would cease using it is if McAfee and AVG will obtain a court injunction ordering me to do so.

 

dbrisendine wrote:
I have used all of these packages, along with beta testing them before released to the public.  The reason for the choice is not that they are superior to others in protection or stability but a PR move to keep the product in the public eye.

Perhaps so, but such a PR move sets a de facto standard that is difficult to ignore. If a Kaspersky's, ESET's, Sophos's etc revenue suffered as a result of allowing the software to function beyond subscription's expiry then they would not have allowed it. It's simple, they are in business to make money.

 

28

This forum has been created to discuss issues with Norton products and for other members to share their experiences with Norton products. As this thread contains a legal discussion which is not permitted under the forum Participation Guidelines, it will now be locked from further posting.

If you wish to contact Symantec concerning the License Agreement, please write to:

Symantec Customer Service
555 International Way
Springfield, OR 97477 U.S.A.

Please see the following link to the Participation Guidelines for more information about forum conduct:

http://community.norton.com/norton/board/message?board.id=about_community&thread.id=2

Symantec’s Norton Community is not a legal venue, and as such any discussion of litigation (past, present or future) shall not be allowed. Symantec retains the right to remove this material and to limit participants’ access to the Norton Community if this type of material is posted.