Upgrading 3-User NIS 2010 to 3- or 5-User 360 2011?

dukestertx · April 16, 2011, 6:53pm

I currently am subscribed to NIS 2010/2011 thru May with a 3-user retail package on CD. I am using it on my primary PC at home office; a secondary computer at home office; and a remote PC that connects through a different intranet/ISP.

At the remote location, there are a couple of computers that had ESET security on them, but it seems to have expired, and I don't recommend that the owner reinstalls that because as far as I'm concerned (having tried it for a trial period), it is a cumbersome POS.

Here's are my great debates:

1) Whether to remove a key from the backup computer at my primary location (used only to collect webmail and do online banking by a non-savvy user who doesn't "surf" much if at all) and reinstall it on the primary computer at the remote location. I am concerned, being a former McAfee subscriber who had this issue and made the switch to NIS, that without "install insurance," I'm going to have unresolvable issues removing it from one machine and being able to use that key again (on that or at the remote site);

2) Whether to buy a new retail 3-user package for the remote location and install it on the two systems there that aren't currently covered by my NIS license (I have only one computer at remote location); or

3) Upgrade to a 5-user version when my subscription to the 3-user version expires next month and install across all five machines.

Ancillary to this these options are two things:

1) I can buy new 3-user retail packages on CD for $59.95 with a $45.00 mail-in rebate, making my net cost for each 3-user installation just $14.95 each, substantially less than the 20% off that is offered for renewal customers. The retail is reputable and carries only legitimate software, BUT does NOT offer a rebate on the 5-user license; and

2) I may want to upgrade to Norton 360 for the performance/tuning features across the board.

I understand from an online support rep here (norton.com) that purchasing a new package at a retail shop is exactly the same as upgrading online, i.e., that either way I will have a new one-year subscription, so from a cost perspective I'll probably do just that.

The questions, I guess, ultimately come down to purchasing two rather than just one 3-computer license, or two 3-user licenses rather than one 5-user license.

First, if I remove one key from the secondary machine at the primary location, will I really get a key/install back on my account? How does Norton know that I've removed it and to give me back one if I'm only doing it through the usual Control Panel methodology?

Second, are there any issues with running two subscriptions on an intranet? Will NIS see itself on the other machines and be able to interact with them the same is if they were on the same license? Or will they all be protected, but only those on the same license be able to recognize each other?

Third, what if any issues are there to upgrading these to a 360 system? Can NIS and 360 be "mixed" on the same intranet, and if so what affect will I see in terms of my question above?

What other insights can anyone provide in terms of this scenario I've (tried to have) depicted from the standpoint of installations, etc.?

dukestertx · April 17, 2011, 2:35pm

Hugh, that seems like what's probably the best solution. Thanks for that.

I don't know what Norton considers a "household," but I'd think that any that are in my home certainly qualify, as do any that I own, so with a total of 5 machines on the two intranets, I can probably go either way, i.e.,

(1) as currently set up: my three machines on one license, even tho' one is remote from the other two, and two owned by my friend (desktop and laptop) on the second; or

(2) two at my location on one license, three at remote location (one owned by me, two by my friend) on the other.

Are there any issues with there being two licenses among three machines at a single site? One can still make changes/updates to another on the network map, say, even if the license isn't the same as long as the software is?

I'd only want to do that because we don't know if there would come a point where either I'd remove my machine from the remote site, or my friend might add a third computer of his own there, and I'd have a key tied up with my machine. Neither of those two possibilities are in the immediate offing, but who knows?

What happens to the existing/new licenses under this scenario:

My existing 3-user license subscription expires in close to 60 days. I just put my friend's machines on a 30-day trial of McAfee (it's an opt-in rather than opt-out trial). By the end of that 30 days, I'll have gotten the two new 3-user licenses of Norton.

Installing one of them at the remote location will start a new subscription there. Will installing a key on MY machine there put it on the new subscription? Do I need to remove the OLD subscription installation first?

I guess I'd want to wait until a day or two before my subscription expires before installing the second 3-user sub onto the machines at my location, yeah? No sense in turning either of them into 11-month subs, IMO. I guess there's really no reason to worry about what happens to the third key at that point since neither of us is likely to get another machine in that short time.

I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, complicating the simple, but just trying to understand where all of this is going (mostly, probably, to reassure my friend...).

Thanks for your help!

huwyngr · April 17, 2011, 5:38pm

As for "household", sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission ..... They would certainly include eg students away from home. But you see the possible disadvantages if the arrangement changes.

I'd go for the first arrangement you set out on the grounds that the third machine is under your control.

<< Are there any issues with there being two licenses among three machines at a single site? One can still make changes/updates to another on the network map, say, even if the license isn't the same as long as the software is? >>

I don't see a problem there as long as you remember which MyNortonAccount to log onto when it is called for and that's pretty rare in my experience -- jusst for renewals or reinstallations?

<< What happens to the existing/new licenses under this scenario:

My existing 3-user license subscription expires in close to 60 days. I just put my friend's machines on a 30-day trial of McAfee (it's an opt-in rather than opt-out trial). By the end of that 30 days, I'll have gotten the two new 3-user licenses of Norton

Installing one of them at the remote location will start a new subscription there >>

It would not start a new subscription if it were on your existing 3 PC licence but would use one activation on that subscription. It is one subscription with 3 activations available. All activations under one subscription expire at the same time -- running from when the first activation under the subscription is made.

Pity you used a trial McAfee since you could have gotten a trial albeit for a shorter period of NIS 2011 <g> Now you'll l have to get hold of the special McAfee tool you can download from their website to do a clean removal of their program! Security programs go so deep that the normal Windows Uninstall doesn't clean up everything and so the major security applications all have special tools, including Norton. Make sure you do this or you'll have trouble.

<< I guess I'd want to wait until a day or two before my subscription expires before installing the second 3-user sub onto the machines at my location, yeah? No sense in turning either of them into 11-month subs, IMO. I guess there's really no reason to worry about what happens to the third key at that point since neither of us is likely to get another machine in that short time. >>

Now I'm getting confused. In Msg #1 you said << I currently am subscribed to NIS 2010/2011 thru May with a 3-user retail package on CD. I am using it on my primary PC at home office; a secondary computer at home office; and a remote PC that connects through a different intranet/ISP. >>

So that remote PC is the one you own or not?

They are all NIS activated on your subscription?

But at the remote location there are two more PCs not owned by you and not covered by your subscription and you want them both on NIS?

So I thought the deal wa to get a new 3 PC version o;f NIS and use it on the two PCs you don't own and accept that one activation might not be used.

Can you make sure we understand completely ....

dukestertx · April 18, 2011, 2:33pm

HUGH:

<< I guess I'd want to wait until a day or two before my subscription expires before installing the second 3-user sub onto the machines at my location, yeah? No sense in turning either of them into 11-month subs, IMO. I guess there's really no reason to worry about what happens to the third key at that point since neither of us is likely to get another machine in that short time. >>

Now I'm getting confused. In Msg #1 you said << I currently am subscribed to NIS 2010/2011 thru May with a 3-user retail package on CD. I am using it on my primary PC at home office; a secondary computer at home office; and a remote PC that connects through a different intranet/ISP. >>

So that remote PC is the one you own or not? They are all NIS activated on your subscription? But at the remote location there are two more PCs not owned by you and not covered by your subscription and you want them both on NIS?

So I thought the deal wa to get a new 3 PC version o;f NIS and use it on the two PCs you don't own and accept that one activation might not be used.

Can you make sure we understand completely ....

-------

Current configuration:

Location 1: Two computers, both mine, both on NIS "Subscription A" (current thru May, maybe June)

Location 2: Three computers, one mine, mine on NIS "Sub A," one of other two currently on McAfee (was ESET), other not protected (laptop, seldom used).

--------

HUGH:

Pity you used a trial McAfee since you could have gotten a trial albeit for a shorter period of NIS 2011 <g> Now you'll l have to get hold of the special McAfee tool you can download from their website to do a clean removal of their program! Security programs go so deep that the normal Windows Uninstall doesn't clean up everything and so the major security applications all have special tools, including Norton. Make sure you do this or you'll have trouble.

-------

Understood, but the difference was in opt-in or opt-out. Since I'm not paying for the remote subscription, I wasn't going to commit my friend to a solution that she would get charged for after 30 days even if she elected to use something different and didn't take positive action - opt OUT - to cancel. McAfee didn't do that, it simply ends at 30 days, you have to opt IN to continue, no chance of two subscriptions to different vendors, one you use and one you don't (but paid for anyway).

As to "Security programs go so deep that the normal Windows Uninstall doesn't clean up everything and so the major security applications all have special tools, including Norton. Make sure you do this or you'll have trouble," normal Windows Uninstall is all Norton says to do to remove a key (I'm still not sure how the subscription system recognizes that you've done this since Uninstall has no online interaction).

huwyngr · April 18, 2011, 8:46pm

dukestertx wrote:

Current configuration:

Location 1: Two computers, both mine, both on NIS "Subscription A" (current thru May, maybe June)

Location 2: Three computers, one mine, mine on NIS "Sub A," one of other two currently on McAfee (was ESET), other not protected (laptop, seldom used).

OK That seems straightforward and it seems that the best solution is to keep your 3 owned PCs on Sub A and then pick up the cheapest legit copy you can find when you need it for Sub B on the two currently on McAfee.

Understood, but the difference was in opt-in or opt-out. Since I'm not paying for the remote subscription, I wasn't going to commit my friend to a solution that she would get charged for after 30 days even if she elected to use something different and didn't take positive action - opt OUT - to cancel. McAfee didn't do that, it simply ends at 30 days, you have to opt IN to continue, no chance of two subscriptions to different vendors, one you use and one you don't (but paid for anyway).

There is a way to get a short free trial wihout the opt out gotcha -- just download the installation file we refer to here and use Activate later -- that gives you either 7 or 15 days free.

If you go to the McAfee website you can find the tool to completely move all traces of their secutiy programs -- someone here has it but I don't.

As to "Security programs go so deep that the normal Windows Uninstall doesn't clean up everything and so the major security applications all have special tools, including Norton. Make sure you do this or you'll have trouble," normal Windows Uninstall is all Norton says to do to remove a key (I'm still not sure how the subscription system recognizes that you've done this since Uninstall has no online interaction).

That may be what they say but I don't think it's completely the case. I know positively that some flags are left behind. And also when you install Norton and activate it you should find a file in the User Account folder under Symantec or Norton with a name that includes Key.txt which contains a copy of your key. I'm not sure that those are deleted by the normal uninstall. And even if you use the Norton Removal Tool it leaves behind a hidden flag to stop people beating the system by repeatedly reinstalling a trial version .... I've seen instructions in some cases that after running Norton Removal Tool to look for Norton Folders and delete them ...

But I'm just the messenger ... passing on what has been found to work..... and not to work.

You also mention ESET having been on those two McAfee computers -- better see if anyone knows it there is a tool for removing that.

Hang on for some instructions on cleaning up the two "McAfee / ESET computers .......

PS Just thought I'd Google [Remove ESET] and it came up with this which is much more than I expected:

http://kb.eset.com/esetkb/index?page=content&id=SOLN146

which is a pretty complete list of security programs and links to their tools or instructions for manually removing. Last Revised: March 09, 2011 so it's pretty recent. I must bookmark that one!

dukestertx · April 19, 2011, 6:35am

No particular need to sell me on Norton vs. the rest. I'm just a cheapskate trying to work out the best solution! :smileywink: Legitimately, that is.

Elsewhere (chat, as I recall), I was told that buying a new retail box with a 3-machine subscription license has the same result as renewing an existing subscription, but at store-retail prices rather than site-retail prices, that is, three new keys to activate for a year.

If - IF! - that is so, then the solution is to buy TWO new retail boxes; activate 2-3 licenses at the remote location (Sub B), and then, when my Sub A expires, use the keys from the second box to re-activate that for another year on two rather than three machines.

Or do a clean install if that's what's called for.

Ideally, I'll somehow manage to get those dates to coincide fairly closely.

Somehow, however, I suspect that (1) the two subscriptions will collide on my remote machine, (2) the removal instructions will NOT return my third key (albeit for only a month), and/or (3) some other glitch will appear to make my life difficult for trying "easy" solutions, and I'll be back here trying to figure out how to work back to where I am now ....

Thanks for all your help and the helpful links.

huwyngr · April 19, 2011, 2:52pm

duke,

Norton does not need selling .... <gdr>

I think we are at one on buying two boxed sets but the timing of using them and which PCs to put on each box is important because, as you know:

The clock runs on the subscription as soon as you use the first activation

The KEY from a boxed set, unlike renewal direct with Norton, wipes out unexpired time.

However let's have six PCs of which the sixth does not exist yet.

PC Owner Location NIS Box Activate

A Duke Home #1 May

B Duke Home #1 May

C Duke Away #1 May

D Friend Away #2 Now

E Friend Away #2 Now

[F ????? ???? #2] Whenever

You get the advantage of the 3 PC price and control of the 3 PCs you own.

The friend pays a bit more per seat but if he gets a third PC has the benefit of an existing licence for the balance of the subscription. And the subscription is under his control.

So yes << If - IF! - that is so, then the solution is to buy TWO new retail boxes; activate 2-3 licenses at the remote location (Sub B), and then, when my Sub A expires, use the keys from the second box to re-activate that for another year on two rather than three machines. >> you are right with just the two caveats on :

<< has the same result as renewing an existing subscription, but at store-retail prices rather than site-retail prices, that is, three new keys to activate for a year. >>

The bought box KEY wipes out any unexpired time (which is why you wait until May) and you don't get 3 KEYs but just one KEY that will activate up to 3 PCs.

You don't have to do a clean install -- unless you want to -- and you certainly do not want to use the CD, since it will be older than you have installed or can update to on line, but just click on the Renew/Subscribe link on the NIS screen and when you get the box to use an existing KEY insert it there.

I don't quite understand your << (2) the removal instructions will NOT return my third key (albeit for only a month), >> because if the third machine has the same installation and KEY as your two at home you do not have to remove it. But even more, the Norotn OnLine CUstomeer Support via CHAT are adept at sorting that one out and liberating the KEY for reuse.

I "think" you are referring to updating the 2010 to 2011 which I suggest we should deal with seperately once you have frozen the game plan for the subscriptions?

OK On that?

If so then we can deal with how best to upgrade your 3 PCs from 2010 to 2011

And just one further thing that does combine the two -- on the friend's 2 PCs after they have been cleaned of all that dirty foreign stuff <gdr> you can directly install the 2011 current version from a file we will link you to for download as a single file you can copy and use on several PCs independently of the KEY.

That way the friend can start with the current version of NIS 2011 and not have to update from the first version that is on the CD.

AND when 2012 is released laler this year, both of you can update all the PCs at no charge for the balance of the current subscription just by using the 2012 file or the Update Center.

dukestertx · April 16, 2011, 6:53pm