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hi gimme_rogaine... hang in there. i think the program is a lot better than v1.
one question - what's up with the Alt-F4 thing? i haven't read about that before...
mel
Hi G-R (just can't quite bring myself to ask for Rogaine...),
I appreciate the confirmation. While there have certainly been issues with both V1 and V2, the overwhelming response to it has been positive. We sit here in what is essentially the ER for Support - we don't see much here except for the cases that are bleeding. That said, I think you have been exceptionally patient and I do appreciate that you patronage our product.
To your specific question, there was a problem identified with the revised dll that would address the problem, which has set us back a bit. I do not believe that it will be long and hopefully before the end of the month.
Thanks,
Matt
MelodicWynd wrote:
[ ... ]
one question - what's up with the Alt-F4 thing? i haven't read about that before...
mel
Message Edited by MelodicWynd on 06-20-2008 05:30 PM
GR wrote << I'm still having problems with processes that do not exit when I do Alt-F4. >>
PMJI but ALT + F4 is a Windows keyboard shortcut to close a program down -- the equivalent of clicking on [X] on a browser. Some of us are keyboard orientated rather than mousers! <g> I learned to touchtype in High School because I had a free period in my schedule .....
There is a circumstance in which it is a very good thing to use -- you get one of those malware or just irritating pop-ups that turn out to have the whole image as the active link to take you to where you do not want to be going so that if you click on the [X] or the [No thanks] or [Cancel] or anywhere on that image you are sunk! I've had email where that is the configuration too.
If you aren't acquainted with the keyboard shortcuts in Windows, open up START / Help and type [keyboard support] into the search box and you should find the link to a long list of them, many of them I'm sure you know.
MelodicWynd wrote: "one question - what's up with the Alt-F4 thing? i haven't read about that before...".
Sigh. It's described several times in this thread. It looks like huwyngr doesn't understand what I mean either.
I'll spell it out to make sure it gets fixed. Not all programs are susceptible to the "Alt-F4 thing". I've observed it intermittently with Excel 2003 and Word 2003. I always observe it with AutoRuns and ProcessExplorer (two programs from SysInternals), and with "cleanmgr.exe /sagerun" (Windows disk cleanup). To reproduce this problem:
1) Start up a susceptible program. For Excel and Word, you also have to do stuff in the program, and I'm not sure what.
2) Exit the program. It does not matter how: pressing Alt-F4, pressing the X in the upper right corner of the window, doing File -> Exit all work fine.
3) You will see the window for the program disappear, but if you use Task Manager or ProcessExplorer, you'll see the program is still listed, it has not truly terminated. In the UNIX world, this is called a zombie process.
4) If you start up and exit this program N more times, you will see N more instances of this program running in Task Manager.
I remember seeing this problem when I had version 1 of Norton 360, but I did not know what was causing it then. The last time I rebuilt my system, I paid attention to whether or not it was occuring. It did not occur before I installed Norton 360 version 2, and it started happening as soon as I installed version 2. This problem did NOT stop occurring when I set AutoEndTasks to 1 in the Windows Registry.
So here's a multiple choice question for Symantec Tech Support. Your response to this description is:
A) "Oh, yeah, that problem."
B) "Eek, we didn't read this thread carefully enough."
So, Symantec Tech Support, is your response A, or is it B?
By the way, do Symantec employees use Norton 360, Norton Internet Security 2008, or Norton Antivirus 2008? When I was doing Tech Support at Clarify, we called using our own products "eating our own dogfood." It helps to get a sequence of steps for reproducing bugs. Also, screaming co-workers are good for bringing reality to developers and executives if they're arrogant or in denial about the quality of their work (common problems).
My version of Norton 360 is 2.3.0.9. Is this up to date?
hi Gimme_Rogaine - thanks for the schooling. i hadn't really caught on that this thread was about "zombie processes" but rather about a specific system hang on shutdown associated with ccSvcHst. one of the dangers of this kind of forum exchange is the possibility of assumptions, so my apologies for any that i made.
that said, i do not believe the "using Norton 360: ccSvcHst error on shutdown" thread - which has a clear following specific to that symptom, is the best place to start adding this very different problem, shared apparently by MS 2003 office products. i actually currently have this problem with FF2, so i feel the pain everytime I shut the darn thing down via TaskMgr.
can we get a moderator to spawn a new thread on this one?
mel
I purchased a 2 year, 3 user license of this garbage ware (Norton 360 v2.0). I've had to uninstall it from every machine. It leaves Outlook (not Outlook Express), Word, Excel, and a half dozen other programs running even after you've ended them. You must bring up the task manager and kill them. This is an even worse product than NIS 2006, I am so thoroughly dissatisfied with this product that I'm going to discuss a charge back with my credit card company. Not only does the product not work for it's intended purpose, it's nearly as bad as having a virus itself.
Wake up, Symantec. You are stealing our money and giving us garbage in return. Some "upgrade" from NIS 2008!
I am not clear here. By zombie processes I presume you mean processes left running in Windows Task Manager after they have apparently been ended in the normal manner. Is Norton now accepting that this is a general problem with Norton 360 v2.? I have many Winxp machines, of different builds, and they all exhibit this issue. Does Norton know what the culprit is?
Yes, that’s what I meant by “zombie processes”. As for the other questions, only Symantec employees can answer them.
Actually, if you read some of my other posting to similar threads you will see that actually the identification of the issue is really quite simple. You could use Microsoft Debugging tools or even just Dr Watson. You are aware of autoruns and procexp, so you know that procexp provides the PID or process identification. With the PID you can ask Dr Watson to end the process i.e. end the PID, then you interogate the DR Watson dumps, and load and behold you find the Norton culprit. The problem for me is finding someone technical enough in Norton/symantec who understand these tools and then knows what action to take. Shame really, because I quite like some of the Norton 360 features but having to clean up mem every hour is a complete pain… to say the least.
Just another post to confirm everything G_R explained about the zombie processes, and just to add this is not restricted to Office programs- this happens to me with Photoshop 6, as well. ccSvcHst error on shutdown and the processes remaining in task manager are two distinct problems (although not sure if they are really connected, somehow). 360 v2 is really disappointing, so far.
I recently found this problem affects Firefox 3.0, and keeps it from properly exiting. If zombie Firefox 3.0 processes exist when I start a new instance of Firefox, the new instance comes up with an empty bookmarks toolbar, and seems to have other problems. Fortunately, killing all Firefox processes and starting a fresh Firefox instance brings up Firefox properly, no Firefox settings are corrupted.
okay, so this one i have seen, but i do not believe that it is N360. i have found a few FF add-ons, particularly Piclens, that causes this problem. i can run V2 without that specific add-on and the process does terminate properly. can you see what happens if you disable your add-ons?
mel
i tried the steps you mention (with Excel 2003 and Word 2003) and am completely unable to reproduce the problem (on 3 different albeit similar XPSP2 installations and V2). i checked Task Manager and the Excel instance closed properly. i suspect another environmental element is at work here, as i can repro this with the Piclens add-on on FF2 and FF3 completely independent of V2.
mel
Sorry, MelodicWynd, I've uninstalled Norton 360 and I'm test-driving ESET NOD32 3.0. If I ever re-install Norton 360, I'll give this a try.
Meanwhile, try AutoRuns and ProcessExplorer (two programs from SysInternals), and with "cleanmgr.exe /sagerun" (Windows disk cleanup).
Gimme_Rogaine
Also, MelodicWynd, you could talk to emmert7 or cgoldman. Both of them have this issue, both of them have posted to this thread.
Gimme_Rogaine
Hi Clive,
If you are still amenable, I'd like to take you up on the offer of the research you have already conducted. I've sent you a PM with upload details.
Many thanks,
Matt
I too have run into this immediately after installing the new Norton 360. Wife complained that Word (2003) is no longer working. After a reboot, a Word document comes up fine, but after closing the first doc, subsequent documents hang. Doing further research it looks like the original instance never quite exited. If I go to task manager and kill the zombie WINWORD.exe, I can bring up a document again (but repeats the same behavior when it closes). Does uninstalling Norton 360 make this problem go away?
Yes, uninstalling Norton 360 will make your problem with Word hanging go away.
lol... that is the $50,000 question i'd really like to know the answer to. the premise of this thread is that uninstalling 360 will make the problem go away.
mel