OK… I just uninstalled 360, and the problem with Word hanging went away… The SvcHost not exiting message also went away and it rebooted fine… Do Symantec folks monitor these boards, or do I need to also submit support requests for this? I guess I’ll reinstall 360 and see if the same problems get reintroduced. But need to let wife work on the computer and get her editing done first… This discussion forum has been helpful seeing other users’ experiences.
PyroDon wrote:
OK.. I just uninstalled 360, and the problem with Word hanging went away.. The SvcHost not exiting message also went away and it rebooted fine.. Do Symantec folks monitor these boards, or do I need to also submit support requests for this? I guess I'll reinstall 360 and see if the same problems get reintroduced. But need to let wife work on the computer and get her editing done first.. This discussion forum has been helpful seeing other users' experiences.
You can be sure Norton Staffers are active here -- look for names in red -- and if you drop SvcHost into the search box you will find plenty of references. Norton is working on a fix but I'll leave it to them to fill in the details.
Stick around for a while and you'll see how good the support is here!
Well, I’d like to report on the re-install and how it affects the Word hanging, but now the re-installed version will not activate. I wonder if since my original product key was an upgrade key to Premier edition, and since then I completely uninstalled it, it is no longer accepting this as an upgrade. Sigh… And I bought it from their own web site. I used to value Norton’s products for the support, and that they worked well. There seems to be a lot of problems with this rollout.
Hi PyroDon,
I'm not sure where you obtained the package that you reinstalled, but this link takes you to the Premier package. If you ended up download the non-Premier edition, it would explain the problem with activation that you describe. Let me know if you don't have your key and can't find it in your Norton Account.
Matt
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Matt,
Thanks for the help. You are right, the activation problem was because of the specific download file. It didn't look like the premier version was listed on the download site. When I got the right file, it activated fine..
Unfortunately, it went straight back to hanging microsoft Word for me. So I am going to de-install Norton 360 2.0 until a fix is published. Thanks for your help though This remains a valuable forum.
I think it is a shame that programs are getting hooked with Norton 360 v2. It is not just one or two programs but well..too many...
I am keeping one machine loaded with Norton 360 v2, in case I can help others and also to detect when the fix is in. Otherwise I quite understand your decision. I just cannot understand with all the "red" employees around that Norton do not consider this a bug of the highest level.
This is for MelodicWynd. Recapping a recent exchange of postings...
Gimme_Rogaine: "Yes, uninstalling Norton 360 will make your problem with Word hanging go away."
MelodicWynd: "lol... that is the $50,000 question i'd really like to know the answer to. the premise of this thread is that uninstalling 360 will make the problem go away. Mel"
MelodicWynd, I thought we have been pretty clear. I AM TELLING YOU THAT UNINSTALLING NORTON 360 FIXES THE HANGING PROBLEM, IT IS NOT A PREMISE. It is the experience that PyroDon just got done telling you about. It is the experience I had shared earlier: that the hanging problem started as soon as I installed Norton 360, and it ended as soon as I uninstalled it. Apart from rebooting, I did nothing else when I installed Norton 360, and apart from rebooting I did nothing else when I uninstalled Norton 360, so I'm pretty clear about causality here.
Now, if I understand, you have not yet been able to reproduce this yet (the gold standard of software support), so it seems that Norton 360 is conflicting with something else that has not been identified.
I've had enough. I have approximately 10 months before my Norton 360 subscription expires, but I have no intention of reinstalling it. What is the procedure for getting a pro-rated refund?
Gimme_Rogaine
hi Gimme_Rogaine - my apologies if my comments offended. that was not my intent (nor were they directed at you) - it is in fact the increasingly likely premise of this thread that there is a connection between 360 and MS 2003 applications "zombies". i never doubted that you experienced exactly what you described. my comment was only made in the hopes of providing more evidence since i can't validate it myself.
mel
To MelodicWynd
If you are interested, perhaps I could suggest some steps to take to see if you can reproduce the zombie issue. You would need nothing more than Norton 360 v2 and the latest release of autoruns. I did find that with certain settings and limited applications/executables running that the zombie did NOT appear each time. It is easier to reproduce when all of the norton 360 v2 settings are switched on. Some of the Norton settings are not obvious i.e. they are not visible at the outmost layer - e.g. Eavesdropping Protection. I have some programs that appear to always cause the zombie effect but I appreciate that you are unlikely to want to acquire these solely for this purpose. I am aware that the programs that do appear to always cause the zombie effect are heavy on system resources - this may be related.
However, if you have all the above set up, then I would open up Windows Task Manager, click on Processes, click on Image name to sort the processes in alpha. order. Leaving task manager running , then execute autoruns, then when it is finished its search, switch to the Logon tab, and then exit by clicking on the red x (top right). If the autoruns drops out of the process window, re-execute until - hopefully - a zombie is created. At worst this takes me only two attempts of running autoruns, generally it happens every time.
One other point of difference. All my XP machines are running SP3 and not SP2. I can no longer check the position with SP2.
Good luck
thanks, Clive. i'll run through all the 360 options and follow your instructions. hopefully i can bring something new back!
mel
When I first saw this, I had not yet installed SP Service Pack 3. So it first appeared for me with Word on Service pack 2, then, thinking it might be due to an incompatibility, upgraded the system using windows update for all Required and Optional updates (including service pack 3). This did not make the issue go away. Note that this is an older system… only a 1.8Ghz single processor, so a lot of contemporary programs (including Office apps) are noticeable in coming up.
I have had the "Zombie" process problem with the following programs I use for Music recording and editing:
Cakewalk Sonar 5 Producer
Cubase SL3
Wavelab Essential
Cakewalk Sonar 5 Studio (on the second machine)
since installing Norton 360 Version 2 on two desktops.
Both computers have Windows XP Media Center Edition with SP2. When these programs are closed, they remain as active processes and won't restart until ended through the Windows Task Manager. I also get multiple instances of svchost.exe (part of N360) running
I called customer support and they recommended setting up program traffic rules for the programs that were casing the problem. The solution seemed to work temporarily, but kept coming back. It's hard to figure how traffic rules would affect these programs anyway, since none of them accesses the internet in normal operation.
The programs work fine on my notebook computer which has NIS 2007, but my subscription to that expires soon. I am reluctant to install either N360 or NIS 2008 on the other computer until this problem is worked out.
I am extremely disappointed by all this since I have had pretty good luck with Symantec products for years.
Add to that:
- I first purchased N360 Version 1. Version 2 came out a few weeks later. I heard that V1 had a number of problems, so I bit the bullet and bought Version 2. Tonight, I found out that Symantec is offering a free upgrade from V1 to V2.
- N360 wiped out my Norton Systemworks programs on the two desktops.
and I'm getting frustrated. Are there any solutions other than uninstalling N360 and using another product?
I would not worry about the multiple svchost.exe (I have 6 running) because I believe they are quite normal. You will notice that each has a different footprint. You will no doubt also have a minimum of two ccSvcHst although you could have three - again one is for Event propogation and logging services, whilst another is for Setting storage and management service.
Likewise traffic rules is not the solution. I get zombie on all sorts of progs, simple ones like autoruns but also Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2.
I have not seen a bug as bad as this since the early days of Peter Norton. I have challenged anyone with Winxp SP3 and Norton 360 v2, not to have zoombies - but so far nobody has come back saying they can not reproduce this. !!!!
There are no solutions to this problem at this time. In fact since only one engineer has admitted that it is a known issue and the so called escalation has not resulted in any responses, I really can not see it being fixed. I have found posting on the internet related to v3,
but this may be a hoax.
<< - I first purchased N360 Version 1. Version 2 came out a few weeks later. I heard that V1 had a number of problems, so I bit the bullet and bought Version 2. Tonight, I found out that Symantec is offering a free upgrade from V1 to V2. >>
That is frustrating. There are two possible solutions:
Symantec does haave a money back warranty that applies to purchases on-line and from stores. I'm not sure if it is for 60 or 90 days. When did you buy the copies and from where (and in what country if not the USA)? If you bought from a store I think they are the first to contact but if they refuse then Symantec will step in. So give the details.
There may be a way for Symantec to combine the two subscriptions so that you don't lose out but I don't know if that is possible. I'm flagging your message for a Norton Staffer (names in red) to pick this up and see what can be done both about your subscriptions and about the state of the technical situation.
<< - N360 wiped out my Norton Systemworks programs on the two desktops. >>
There is overlap between components of the two different programs so it is not unusual for the more recent to uninstall the earlier. However from what I've seen about similar situations between Norton Internet Security and NSW you should be able to install NSW after you have installed N360 if you do a custom install of NSW and only install the utilities you really need specifically excluding Norton AntiVirus I imagine. Decide what you really need from NSW if you are going to try this.
And I'd suggest that you sort out what can be done about N360 first. Do say what version of NSW you have.
Hope that helps.
I've been a life-long Norton/Symantec antivirus guy--and I've been patient with them--but Norton 360 v1 and v2 has driven me to dump my subscription. I can't stand any more pointless technical support sessions, zombied processes, dead antivirus upon shutdown, broken installs, broken upgrades, finger pointing or corporate incompetence.
It's taken a while, but Symantec has finally broken my will to live with their crap products. Panda here I come...
>>>Symantec does have a money back warranty that applies to purchases on-line and from stores. I'm not sure if it is for 60 or 90 days. When did you buy the copies and from where (and in what country if not the USA)? If you bought from a store I think they are the first to contact but if they refuse then Symantec will step in. So give the details. <<<
I bought N360 V1 at Staples in Nashua, NH on 3/12/08 for $74.99 and received two mail rebates ($20 and $30). This one is past the 60-day warranty period.
I bought N360 V2 at Staples in Plaistow, NH on 5/13/08 for $79.99 and received a $20 mail rebate. I'm not sure how the rebates affect the guarantee with Symantec, but both original boxes now have the proofs of purchase cut out which were required for the rebates. The warranty on this one expires today, I believe.
To get action on the warranty I would need to contact Symanted Customer Service today and take both computers offline until I could purchase and install a replacement internet security suite. Timing is important - just like in music...
>>>you should be able to install NSW after you have installed N360 if you do a custom install of NSW and only install the utilities you really need specifically excluding Norton AntiVirus I imagine. Decide what you really need from NSW if you are going to try this.And I'd suggest that you sort out what can be done about N360 first. Do say what version of NSW you have.<<
The version of NSW formerly on the music editing desktop was the 2006 Basic Edition (without NAV or Ghost). The version on our other desktop was 2006 Premier. Both computers had NIS 2007 until I loaded N360 V2. I could try doing custom reinstalls to get the Norton Utilities back if I were to stick with N360. I would like some assurance from Symantec that the Zombie process bug is being fixed, though.
Thanks for the advice!
Thanks for the information – let’s see what a Staffer has to say. It looks like the best would be for there to be a way to combine the unexpired days of the two but I don’t know if that is possible.
I'd like to stick my hand up and be counted as I am also having the zombie processes problem (i'm having it on win xp service pack 2 - not game enough to upgrade to sp3 yet). I did the whole chat tech support thing and basically wound up like most of you guys with very little useful help and no acknowledgement about the problem. I can reproduce the problem no sweat..i just open any application that consumes a lot of system resources such as:
- 3d applications
- photoshop and other painting related programs
- compositing software
- even firefox (though not consuming a lot of resources, but it still does it)
I can't believe that we cannot get straight answers about this considering how long people seem to be having issues with this. And seriously, how can anyone release software that does something like this! I'm usually quite patient with these things for being fixed but this is really starting to test me!
Message Edited by nio-txx on 07-14-2008 12:06 PM
I enjoyed your post. Like you I agree that there appears to be a relationship to resouce consumption, but having said that Autoruns is not a huge application. However the total resource consumption at a point in time might be relevant.
As you may know I challenge anyone to NOT have zoombies. Alas whilst one fine person agreed to take up the challenge, I never heard again. I am still hoping that one of the red arrows team (he he! our Norton's employees) will take this up.
This is so serious its just crazy that it is not resolved before now. What are the developers doing, like right now, I ask myself.
Oh well, I'll hang in until end of August and see what turns up
hi again - sorry for the delayed response. i was able to reproduce the problem with autoruns and just the default settings. I tried with Excel, however, and was unsuccessful. i was also unable to replicate it on a box running the latest version of NIS 08 (15.5 i think) with a nearly identical configuration (hw/sw). interestingly, however, i was unable to repro with any of the other sw on my box... Office 2003 apps all shut down properly - i tried cooledit and mspaint and a few others, but couldn't find anything else that showed the symptoms.any names for sw that commonly produces zombies?
mel