Why have there been so many problems with NIS 2012?

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
1

Just when I was going to update to NIS 2012, I continue to see issues and problems with the 2012 version.

Does anyone know why NIS 2012 has had more problems than any other NIS version that I can ever recall?

Is 2012 just fundamentally flawed at its core?

Does it have more problems due to Windows 7?

Has it grown too complex for stability?

Should I just wait it out until NIS 2013 at this point?

Or will 2013 simply be a warmed over version of 2012 with even more issues to resolve?

 

 

PS: Hopefully Norton will provide a link to a full offline installation version of 2013.

2

I've said the same in the past.

 

These forums were active during the 2010 to 2011 upgrade and there were nowhere near the reported problems.

 

I'm also still on NIS2011 which is working flawlessly, especially Identity Safe which seems to be cropping up regularly.

 

I'll see how NIS2013 fares and make the jump from 11 to 13 or go elsewhere

3

 If you don't mind me adding my two cents (what will happen if the US does away with the penny, we won't be able to make comments?), getting error messages with NIS 2012 is getting to be almost routine.  Probably two or three times a month, when I boot up, I get an error message that I have turned off my virus protection, my firewall has been turned off and my PC is at risk.   If I run the support program, some times I'm told to uninstall and reinstall NIS 2012 and other times I'm told I need to reboot.  I have my boot option set to agressive, maybe that is the problem.  Sometimes in the middle of another program, I get the error message and I need to reboot, so I don't think the problem is with the boot procedure.  I've been with NIS since around 2002 and don't remember seeing all these problems.  Must be something wrong with my PC:smileyvery-happy:???

4

PC-c

 

And, contrariwise, I don't think I've ever had an error message from Norton (except when beta testing) .... Although I have other versions of Windows fromXP to WIN 8 in multiboot, Windows 7 32 bit is my normal daily tool.

 

I wonder your vintage:

 

Windows XP Media Center Ver 2002 SP3 - IE 8.0.6001.18702 - NIS 2012 19.7.1.5 - Ghost Ver 14.0.4.30167 - SystemWorks Basic Ver 12.0.1- HP Pavilion a1637c PC.

 

which, with the exception of your NIS, involves edge of retirement or actually retired (NSW) products has anything to do with it?

 

I'm not knocking using what works but from a point of view of programming a security program it must be a nightmare. I can imagine when 2014 comes along and Microsoft stops supporting XP how many ancilliary programs will also withdraw support?

 

PS It's nice to see Windows 7 on sale cheap these days. Just got an email from one of the reputable sources of discounted software and you can get the Family Pack Windows 7 HP (install on 3 PCs) for just over $100 ....

5

huwyngr what you say is probably correct and that price for a 3-pack of Windows 7, sounds really good.  From what I've read, Windows 7 will not even install on the HP a1637c processor.  Not enough horsepower in the processor.  PC.JPG

I do wonder why I don't get the error messages on my old Dell Optiplex GX280 or the Dell Dimension 2350, both have had NIS 2012 on them.  I haven't used the 2350 in the last couple of months, so I really shouldn't  count that PC.  Most of the times I get the error message after an update that requires a reboot.  After the second reboot, I usually don't get the error messages.  I don't really use System Works anymore and I have a couple of copies of Ghost 15, but haven't decided to upgrade yet.  Errors are more of a nuance then a real problem, unless the PC's are not protected because of the error?

6

L:

> Does anyone know why NIS 2012 has had more problems than any other NIS version that I can ever recall?

 

p:

>it may just be that there is more exposure to problems in these public forums.

 

I don't understand that point. Because a customer read about a problem in this forum, and then his computer has an NIS problem/error/issue ... those two are related?

 

> Many issues brought up here may have been solved by Norton Support employees in the past.

 

Wouldn't Symantec fix that issue in the next release so that others wouldn't have to deal with it?

 

K:

> These forums were active during the 2010 to 2011 upgrade and there were nowhere near the reported problems.

 

I agree.  I believe that is true.

 

PC:

> I've been with NIS since around 2002 and don't remember seeing all these problems.

 

h:

> Windows XP Media Center Ver 2002 SP3

 

XP has the second largest installed base of any operating system on the planet earth.  Symantec would be doing their customers, not to mention their shareholders, a huge disservice if NIS did not run as well on XP as it does on 7.  Also, XP has 3 times the installed base of the newer Vista.  And he's running the latest XP service pack.

 

> NIS 2012 19.7.1.5

 

And he has the latest version of NIS.

 

> from a point of view of programming a security program it must be a nightmare.

 

Of course it is.  That's what they're paid to do.  They don't make the big bucks to just to handle the easy cases.  Other companies/developers have similar problems too.

 

Another way to look at this is that developers have had a lot more time to figure out the idiosyncrasies of older third party products.  There shouldn't be many surprises at this point.  So that makes them _easier_ to develop for.

 

> I can imagine when 2014 comes along and Microsoft stops supporting XP how many ancilliary programs will also withdraw support?

 

That may or may not happen.  But what happens in 2014 is irrelevant to the problems that customers are having with NIS _today_.

 

7

PC-c,

 

I don't know why WIndows 7 32 bit would not install on that machine. It does not seem very different to my previous desktop.

 

Here's a link to the machine specification

 

and even to the motherboard

 

Have you run the MS test for Windows 7 compatibility? It should be alright since HP lists drivers for Windows 7 forthat machine   but you would be well advised to add 2GB of RAM -- it has 4 slots so with luck only 2 are used.

 

The only problem you might have is if you tried to install the 64 bit version but since that machine seems able to run VISTA it shuld run Windows 7 32 bit. My motherboard had a chpset that did not work with 64 bit Windows but did fine with 32 bit.

 

My machine used the Athlon 64 X2 CPU and 2GB of RAM .... and it ran OK.

 

BTW I see a system fix on the HP site for after installing SP 3

8

Here is the straight scoop.  NIS 2012 is apparently having major issues.  I have been using Norton since the days of Blue corporate colors and floppy disc.  And this is the one time where they have a bug of this magnitude that essentially makes one feature all but useless.  They promise it still protects, but how will they know, when they can't find the answers to many issues.  If you have 2011 stick with it for now.  I have to give 2012 a thumbs down along with tech support.  and yes at every turn the uninstall/reinstall is given as the solution.  Just imagine if after every windows update the software became corrupted and you had to uinstall and reinstall the OS.

 

So just enter your new sub number in the 2011 program and make sure you disable to feature to install a new version (not meaning an update to the current version, but a full version upgrade like 2011 to 2012).  That way you can see if and when Norton addresses some of the most pending issues or if they decide to put off a fix and make you change to 2013 instead.  At least that way you have one less program to uninstall to get to version 2013 not mention the problems you get with 2012.

 

Sure many software titles have teething problems, but problems don't remain unsolved nearly 7 months after first reported.  At the OS level sure that might happen but that is because the OS is the main program that all others rely on.   So to give Norton a "typical of all software" escape clause is wrong.  This isn't just a game or spreadsheet program we are talking about.  We are talking about the protection we all rely on.   The first report should have had them asking questions do test and what not.  Even when their own staff can recreate then the fix should be even faster after all they are the ones who wrote the program.  They have seen the error logs from various people.

 

So stick with 2011 you will be glad you did, at least until you see them fix some of the outstanding issues with 2012 or they say go get 2013 as put the fixes in there.   2013 is due out sometime in late Sept, early oct based on their previous software releases.  So with just about 3 months left in the 2012 cycle, I don't see fixes coming or only half baked ones.

9

Of course jumping straight into NIS2013 could be a mistake as well. I intend to watch and wait for a few months to see if 2013 is 'son of 2012'

 

2012 may well work perfectly OK on my rig but I'm just too nervous to try it out with all the outstanding issues.

 

I wonder how long 2011 will still get definition updates once 2013 is out ?

10

> Is 2012 just fundamentally flawed at its core?

 

With all the 2012 versions that have been released, you'd think that they would have gotten it right by now.

 

Here is a quick list that I came up with.  I doubt that it is complete.  Please add versions that I have missed.

 

19.1.1.3

19.1.0.28

19.2.0.10

19.5.0.145

19.5.1.2

19.6.1.8

19.6.2.10

19.7.0.9

19.7.1.5

 

This brings to mind "Newton's Method of Successive Approximations".  Meaning that something eventually converges on whatever it's going to be.

 

You'd think that by June, 2012 -- with three-quarters of the "model year" gone by -- that NIS 2012 would have converged by now.  Apparently not.

 

To be clear, I'm not necessarily criticizing the _number_ of releases.  I've been critical in the past at how long it takes Symantec to fix anything (too long!).

 

If, after all these releases, we would see in the forum a reduction in the number of problems that customers are reporting, then lots of releases wouldn't be bad.

 

But we're seeing the opposite.  Problems seem to be _increasing_.  This is a very bad sign for Symantec.

 

And then you combine all that with their refusal to participate in AV tests (well documented in this forum).

 

Sherlock Holmes would be nodding his head right now and saying "Hmmm.  Of course."

11

<< ... their refusal to participate in AV tests (well documented in this forum). >>

 

Including the reasons why they considered this the right thing to do .... and after all it is their program.!

12

Information from the AV-Comparatives website.

 

They did a user survey.

There were 2,118 responses.

 

Q 10:  Which type of test are you most interested in?

 

The Number One response was "on-demand malware _file

detection test_".

 

Q 18:  What is important to you in a security product?

 

The Number One response was "good detection rate of

malicious _files_ without being dependent on cloud/online

connection".

 

Q 19:  What should AV vendors try to improve more?

 

The Number One response was "improve _file detection_ rates

without support from the cloud/online connection".

 

Here is the AV-Comparatives statement about the 2012 participants:

 

"As Symantec Norton declined to participate in the _File Detection Test_, we will unfortunately not be able to provide our readers with any test results for Symantec Norton in 2012."

 

 

Now from the www.symantec.com website:

 

1) "Symantec acquired PCTools, a global provider of security and utility products."

 

Now consider this:

Symantec allowed PC Tools to participate in the 2012 AV-Comparatives test!

 

2) "Mt. View, Calif. – Sept. 7, 2011 – Norton by Symantec today released Norton Internet Security and Norton AntiVirus 2012 ...  Norton Internet Security 2012 ranked first in overall performance testing by both PassMark Software and _AV- Comparatives_."

 

That press release was in September.  And then Symantec -- with NIS 2012 19.1.0.21 -- participated in the On-Demand Comparative test, which was revised by AV-Comparatives on _September 27_.  (To include newly released products, apparently.)

 

NIS 2012 19.1.0.21 finished:

14 out of 20 in the speed test

15 out of 16 in the false positive test

12 out of 15 in the total detection rate test

 

That was followed by Symantec announcing that they won't participate any more.

Reason given:  because of the _File Detection test_!

NIS runs a File Detection test every time they run a background scan, lol.

 

And then that was followed by the virtually once-a-month release of new NIS 2012 versions noted in a post above.

 

Every word above is a statement of _fact_, not a subjective opinion.

13

Just one question - is there some useful purpose to your message?

Thanks

14

Hi joen,

 

From the AV-Comparatives survey summary:

 

Surprisingly, the Whole-Product Dynamic “Real-World” Protection Test, which aims to perform an indepth
test of the security software under real-world conditions and which is promoted by the AV
industry as the best type of test to reflect product capabilities, once again only comes a modest 5th in
the respondents’ list of requested tests.

 

 

15
dickevans wrote:

Just one question - is there some useful purpose to your message?

Thanks

Dick


I think it was meant to deal with my message saying that Norton had said why they took the decision .....

16

Just when I was going to update to NIS 2012, I continue to see issues and problems with the 2012 version.

Does anyone know why NIS 2012 has had more problems than any other NIS version that I can ever recall?

Is 2012 just fundamentally flawed at its core?

Does it have more problems due to Windows 7?

Has it grown too complex for stability?

Should I just wait it out until NIS 2013 at this point?

Or will 2013 simply be a warmed over version of 2012 with even more issues to resolve?

 

 

PS: Hopefully Norton will provide a link to a full offline installation version of 2013.