Not so much a question but just mentioning an experience for what it's worth.
I use Windows 7's own disk imaging function for making an image just prior to trying out new software or making changes to the computer. If I decide not to keep the software, the image is used to return the computer to its previous state. The ultimate in system restore maybe.
When the computer is booted up after the disk image has been used, the NIS Tray icon is flashing red. The Norton 'One Click Support' window comes up with Error "3047 ,43" reported in it. It is just a case of updating NIS and then everything is fine. I just wonder though:-
The update download size isn't a few megabytes in size as might be expected. Even though the image may only have been made a few days before, the download is 73.65MB. About enough for it to be the whole program I'd think. Perhaps that's not important information other than to someone else who uses the Windows 7 disk imaging function along with Norton. Strange why it happens though. A disk image is supposed to be a bit by bit copy. I thought is should have the Norton state in it that was current at the time the image was made.
Even stranger is that I tried Macruim Reflect a while ago and the anomily didn't happen in that. Just a few days-worth of updates were downloaded when the Macrium image was written back to the C:\ drive.
I just restored the C: drive with a more or less day old disk image made with Macrium Reflect. The NIS update was about 4MB. No doubt the definition updates. Yet, a few times, I have done the same thing with a disk image made by Windows 7 and the download is always about the 73MB mark. I think that must be more than the defintions?
Tryer wrote:I just restored the C: drive with a more or less day old disk image made with Macrium Reflect. The NIS update was about 4MB. No doubt the definition updates. Yet, a few times, I have done the same thing with a disk image made by Windows 7 and the download is always about the 73MB mark. I think that must be more than the defintions?
Hi Tryer
I think that is all that it is. Ghost does the same thing in that, after a restore, NIS needs to reload the full definitions file which is >70Mb). I have no experience with Macrium Reflect so I do not know how it handles the installed definition files when it performs an image of the system.
Thanks mdturner - That must be the case then. I probably wouldn't have mentioned it if Macrium Reflect has had been the same. I don't know why that would handle things differently to Windows 7 disk imaging or Ghost. Just another of life's mysteries.
Tryer wrote:Thanks mdturner - That must be the case then. I probably wouldn't have mentioned it if Macrium Reflect has had been the same. I don't know why that would handle things differently to Windows 7 disk imaging or Ghost. Just another of life's mysteries.
Hi Tryer
The explanation I got in the Ghost testing days was that there was little point in including the definitions in the image as, in all likelihood, they would be massively out of date when you were likely to restore the image and NIS or whatever would pull a full set down anyway.
Not so much a question but just mentioning an experience for what it's worth.
I use Windows 7's own disk imaging function for making an image just prior to trying out new software or making changes to the computer. If I decide not to keep the software, the image is used to return the computer to its previous state. The ultimate in system restore maybe.
When the computer is booted up after the disk image has been used, the NIS Tray icon is flashing red. The Norton 'One Click Support' window comes up with Error "3047 ,43" reported in it. It is just a case of updating NIS and then everything is fine. I just wonder though:-
The update download size isn't a few megabytes in size as might be expected. Even though the image may only have been made a few days before, the download is 73.65MB. About enough for it to be the whole program I'd think. Perhaps that's not important information other than to someone else who uses the Windows 7 disk imaging function along with Norton. Strange why it happens though. A disk image is supposed to be a bit by bit copy. I thought is should have the Norton state in it that was current at the time the image was made.
Even stranger is that I tried Macruim Reflect a while ago and the anomily didn't happen in that. Just a few days-worth of updates were downloaded when the Macrium image was written back to the C:\ drive.
Tryer wrote:Not so much a question but just mentioning an experience for what it's worth.
I use Windows 7's own disk imaging function for making an image just prior to trying out new software or making changes to the computer. If I decide not to keep the software, the image is used to return the computer to its previous state. The ultimate in system restore maybe.
When the computer is booted up after the disk image has been used, the NIS Tray icon is flashing red. The Norton 'One Click Support' window comes up with Error "3047 ,43" reported in it. It is just a case of updating NIS and then everything is fine. I just wonder though:-
The update download size isn't a few megabytes in size as might be expected. Even though the image may only have been made a few days before, the download is 73.65MB. About enough for it to be the whole program I'd think. Perhaps that's not important information other than to someone else who uses the Windows 7 disk imaging function along with Norton. Strange why it happens though. A disk image is supposed to be a bit by bit copy. I thought is should have the Norton state in it that was current at the time the image was made.
Even stranger is that I tried Macruim Reflect a while ago and the anomily didn't happen in that. Just a few days-worth of updates were downloaded when the Macrium image was written back to the C:\ drive.
I just ordered a 2 TB external hard drive so that I could do exactly what you are doing with the Windows 7 system image function. Hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions about it. Is it as easy and reliable as it seems? Can you back up two PCs to a single external hard drive and tell which image goes with which PC? Thanks.
Hello car825 - One of the things I like to do with the computer is try out various softwares. This often leads to me using a Windows 7 disk image to return the computer to a clean state, perhaps as much as every few days. In fact, the trials of software also includes various security programs. I'll take this opportunity to say that having used other security solutions for a while I came back to using the NIS 2010/Sandboxie layered combination because I think it good. Just a plug for Norton there. 
So I have used the Windows 7 disk imaging loads of times. It has its limitations in as much as you can't explore images, can't do incremental back-ups etc. Nonetheless, for an entire disk image/backup it works well and is easy to use.
Don't forget to make a system repair disk (function offered from within the disk imaging window). You can start the restore operation from within Windows but I have had one occasion when I couldn't and needed to boot from the disk.
Another time, even that didn't work. The software trialled had written something to disk that the image couldn't overwrite. Perhaps for the first reason given here. Whilst there may have been another way, I chose to reinstall the operating system just enough to let me access a previously made disk image. I was then able to use that image to restore everything to a fully working up-to-date system. So, even in those two rare occurences, a disk image made by Windows 7 was able to help me out.
You can put two images for different computers onto the same disk but by default, the latest image will overwrite an existing one. A Windows image takes the form of a folder on the second drive. It has the name of 'WindowsImageBackup'. What has to be done is to move this folder into a new folder of its own so that later imaging operations don't find it. Then you can make a second seperate backup of the other computer. Put this in its own new folder too. Give the folders some meaningful names as to what backup they contain.
When you want to restore from one of these, bring the required 'WindowsImageBackup' image folder out and put it out on the root of the second disk where the imaging process can find it. In the end, you might do like I do and have a folder named 'Windows Disk Images'. Inside this are several folders bearing names of various backups. For instance, I have one called 'DiskImage No sec', taken of an activated system before any security programs were added. I could go back that far if I wanted to. Inside this folder is the 'WindowsImageBackup' containing the OS at that stage.
It's therefore possible to have numerous disk images, bringing each one out of the folder structure you created should they be needed. I keep the latest 'WindowsImageBackup' folder on the root of the second disk so that the restore process will find and use it. I could put it in its own folder if I want to protect it and write another image.
As with most things, it's easier to do than write about. It might sound complicated to have multiple images but it isn't in practice and the method does work.
Tryer wrote:Hello car825 - One of the things I like to do with the computer is try out various softwares. This often leads to me using a Windows 7 disk image to return the computer to a clean state, perhaps as much as every few days. In fact, the trials of software also includes various security programs. I'll take this opportunity to say that having used other security solutions for a while I came back to using the NIS 2010/Sandboxie layered combination because I think it good. Just a plug for Norton there.
So I have used the Windows 7 disk imaging loads of times. It has its limitations in as much as you can't explore images, can't do incremental back-ups etc. Nonetheless, for an entire disk image/backup it works well and is easy to use.
Don't forget to make a system repair disk (function offered from within the disk imaging window). You can start the restore operation from within Windows but I have had one occasion when I couldn't and needed to boot from the disk.
Another time, even that didn't work. The software trialled had written something to disk that the image couldn't overwrite. Perhaps for the first reason given here. Whilst there may have been another way, I chose to reinstall the operating system just enough to let me access a previously made disk image. I was then able to use that image to restore everything to a fully working up-to-date system. So, even in those two rare occurences, a disk image made by Windows 7 was able to help me out.
You can put two images for different computers onto the same disk but by default, the latest image will overwrite an existing one. A Windows image takes the form of a folder on the second drive. It has the name of 'WindowsImageBackup'. What has to be done is to move this folder into a new folder of its own so that later imaging operations don't find it. Then you can make a second seperate backup of the other computer. Put this in its own new folder too. Give the folders some meaningful names as to what backup they contain.
When you want to restore from one of these, bring the required 'WindowsImageBackup' image folder out and put it out on the root of the second disk where the imaging process can find it. In the end, you might do like I do and have a folder named 'Windows Disk Images'. Inside this are several folders bearing names of various backups. For instance, I have one called 'DiskImage No sec', taken of an activated system before any security programs were added. I could go back that far if I wanted to. Inside this folder is the 'WindowsImageBackup' containing the OS at that stage.
It's therefore possible to have numerous disk images, bringing each one out of the folder structure you created should they be needed. I keep the latest 'WindowsImageBackup' folder on the root of the second disk so that the restore process will find and use it. I could put it in its own folder if I want to protect it and write another image.
As with most things, it's easier to do than write about. It might sound complicated to have multiple images but it isn't in practice and the method does work.
Great write-up. I have a few more questions.
1. Do you move the system images to their own backup folders or make copies? Does it matter if you move or copy? I would like to make a copy of my first system image and put it in a back up folder right away. Is that OK to do?
2. Is the system image file name generic or does it contain the name of the PC?
3. In the two PC backup scenario, when you say the latest image will overwrite an existing one, do you mean for each PC or will the last PC-1 image overwrite the last PC-2 image?
Thanks
1. Do you move the system images to their own backup folders or make copies? Does it matter if you move or copy? I would like to make a copy of my first system image and put it in a back up folder right away. Is that OK to do?
I keep the latest image folder on the root of my D:\ drive (a second internal hard drive). If I want to keep that one safe from being overwritten, I'll cut and paste it into its own folder with some sort of name that tells me what it is. Then I'm free to add programs to the computer that I'm sure I want to keep permanently. With that done, I'll make another 'current' image on the root of the D:\ drive. This is used for restoring the computer to the state it was in before any trial programs were installed. If one of those programs is for keeping, I'll install it and then make yet another image that becomes the new 'current' one (includes the new program) ...and so on as desired.
2. Is the system image file name generic or does it contain the name of the PC?
An image takes the form of a folder that looks like any other. The folder always bears the name mentioned ('WindowsImageBackup'). If you want keep that, put it inside a folder called something relevant to what's in the backup.
3. In the two PC backup scenario, when you say the latest image will overwrite an existing one, do you mean for each PC or will the last PC-1 image overwrite the last PC-2 image?
Any image overwrites an existing one located the root of the second drive or partition. There can only be the one in my experience. So, each PC's image would have to moved into different folders bearing names about what the images are. I suppose you could even write a Notepad file describing what the backup is and include it in the folder.
You might like to take a look at this post. It's a re-vamped version of the above. Maybe a bit clearer.
Tryer wrote:1. Do you move the system images to their own backup folders or make copies? Does it matter if you move or copy? I would like to make a copy of my first system image and put it in a back up folder right away. Is that OK to do?
I keep the latest image folder on the root of my D:\ drive (a second internal hard drive). If I want to keep that one safe from being overwritten, I'll cut and paste it into its own folder with some sort of name that tells me what it is. Then I'm free to add programs to the computer that I'm sure I want to keep permanently. With that done, I'll make another 'current' image on the root of the D:\ drive. This is used for restoring the computer to the state it was in before any trial programs were installed. If one of those programs is for keeping, I'll install it and then make yet another image that becomes the new 'current' one (includes the new program) ...and so on as desired.
2. Is the system image file name generic or does it contain the name of the PC?
An image takes the form of a folder that looks like any other. The folder always bears the name mentioned ('WindowsImageBackup'). If you want keep that, put it inside a folder called something relevant to what's in the backup.
3. In the two PC backup scenario, when you say the latest image will overwrite an existing one, do you mean for each PC or will the last PC-1 image overwrite the last PC-2 image?
Any image overwrites an existing one located the root of the second drive or partition. There can only be the one in my experience. So, each PC's image would have to moved into different folders bearing names about what the images are. I suppose you could even write a Notepad file describing what the backup is and include it in the folder.
You might like to take a look at this post. It's a re-vamped version of the above. Maybe a bit clearer.
I read through the other post. The diagram was great. In the two PC backup scenario, how do you decide which PC's image to leave on the root of the backup drive? Is there even a way to tell which PC created the root image? If the other PC happens to crash, can you select one of the images from the "Windows System Images" folder or will it force you to use the image in the root which was created by a different PC?
One more thing. Bringing this discussion full circle back to NIS 2010, if your system crashes because of a virus, will your backup drive get infected when you connect it to do the restore? Are there any special precautions to take before connecting it?
It's possible to explore the image and if the computers both have different names, then you'd be able to tell which computer made the image. You could also just open the image folder to the first level and just put a note in there using Notepad. I don't think that would upset the image in any way.
You don't have to leave the image for either of the computers on the root at all if you don't want to. You could just make an image with either computer, file it away and only bring it out when needed.
It has been my experience that any image you want to use, would have to be on the root of the second drive. You'd have to cut and paste the image made by either computer to the root so it could be found. I haven't been able to get to any of the images stacked away in their own folders on that drive.
I think if your second drive had two partitions, then you would be able to find both of them listed in the dialogue box that comes up during the rewriting procedure. Then an image on the root of either of those partitions could be chosen. So another way of storing images for both computers would be to have one partition on the second drive dedicated to one computer and the other partition dedicated to the other computer. I wouldn't think that would be necessary way but it could be done.
About the virus scenario, I think one of the Norton experts would be better able to say if a second drive could become infected. Even if that was something that could happen, the chances of it affecting an image must be remote?
Tryer wrote:It's possible to explore the image and if the computers both have different names, then you'd be able to tell which computer made the image. You could also just open the image folder to the first level and just put a note in there using Notepad. I don't think that would upset the image in any way.
You don't have to leave the image for either of the computers on the root at all if you don't want to. You could just make an image with either computer, file it away and only bring it out when needed.
It has been my experience that any image you want to use, would have to be on the root of the second drive. You'd have to cut and paste the image made by either computer to the root so it could be found. I haven't been able to get to any of the images stacked away in their own folders on that drive.
I think if your second drive had two partitions, then you would be able to find both of them listed in the dialogue box that comes up during the rewriting procedure. Then an image on the root of either of those partitions could be chosen. So another way of storing images for both computers would be to have one partition on the second drive dedicated to one computer and the other partition dedicated to the other computer. I wouldn't think that would be necessary way but it could be done.
About the virus scenario, I think one of the Norton experts would be better able to say if a second drive could become infected. Even if that was something that could happen, the chances of it affecting an image must be remote?
So here is the question for the Norton experts. What is the best practice for restoring an infected PC (with NIS10) from an external hard drive? How do you prevent the virus from infecting the external hard drive and destroying the system image file? What role does NIS 2010 play in the process?