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Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Internet Security LiveUpdate was over 350 MB. Now, neither Internet Explorer nor FireFox will open. They bomb out when trying. This machine is an XP machine, and was working yesterday. Since it affected both browsers, I suspected NIS. I was right. I uninstalled it, and reinstalled it without virus signatures, and then installed an older IntelligentUpdater file to get some signatures in there. The browsers were both back in business. Ran LiveUpdate, and again, once fully updated, the browsers were broken again.

My CPU cannot handle SSE2 code. Maybe the latest LiveUpdate installs a bad patch for me. Normally a LiveUpdate is only a few MB. The latest one is over 350MB. Is it possible to run an IntelligentUpdater file and only do the virus signature updates? My older file contains signatures that are too old for safe web use. I can get the latest one, but uninstalling and reinstalling NIS is a pain, if I have to take the patch(es) too.

Thanks,

Rich P

回复

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

As a software engineer, I am able to poke around, and have found a temporary workaround for this issue. It is definitely an NIS issue. Live Update does deliver more than virus definitions. My machine is an older XP machine, and its CPU cannot handle SSIE2 code. I suspect that a very recent patch has been compiled or linked to include SSIE2 code. In any case, the patch interferes with the ability for at least 2 browsers to open. IE 8 just bombs out right away, and FireFox 45.0.2 throws an error code when trying to open. I find that if I uninstall NIS (2014) and reinstall it, the browsers once again open and run fine. If I do a live update, the browsers break. If I repeat the process and only update the virus definitions (via intelligent updater and not LiveUpdate), NIS 2014 runs fine, and so do the browsers. The problem is an errant patch. Simply disabling Browser Protection, as a test, proved unfruitful when NIS was blowing up the browsers.

In any case, experimentation has yielded the following temporary work-around:

1. Using a functional computer, go here ( https://www.symantec.com/security_response/definitions/download/detail.jsp?gid=n95 )

2. Download the updater for your computer and Norton product

3. Put the downloaded exe file on your XP machine that is broken.

4. Disable the ability to connect to the web until NIS is back to working

5. Completely remove NIS (NRT not required) from your affected machine

6. Reboot

7. Reinstall NIS (mine was NIS 2014)

8. Run NIS user interface and, in Settings, disable ALL automatic updates. Apply & Close

9. If your subscription status is not restored, refresh it via "Support->Subscription Status" (It should set you back to good subscription)

10. Reboot

11. Run the downloaded Intelligent Updater exe. When done, reboot again

12. You should be good until a viable LiveUpdate fix is rolled out. You just brought your virus definitions to current without modifying any engines. Do not run live or pulse updates until a good update has been rolled out and verified.

13. You should be able to now safely connect to the web again.

14. Repeat the definition updates (Intelligent Updater) as frequently as you would normally run LiveUpdate. It is a big file (> 400 MB)

I have done this on my XP machine that was broken, and we are up and running and protected by NIS, and the affected browsers are again working. I will post back if I discover anything else along the way. I don't know how to determine when the bad patch has been corrected, or if they intend to fix it at all.

Good luck,

Rich P

好评1 Stats

Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I would like to add that the Norton Support chat sessions I have experienced would fail the Turing Test quite badly. It was as if I was talking to a badly programmed computer. They were no help at all, even as I wanted to report this workaround and information for reporting back to the coding engineers for a fix.

It is important to note that folks with this problem will not be able to come here, or engage with Norton chat, to obtain a solution or a workaround. This is because their browsers will be inop.

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Rich -- Have exactly same problem except with Google Chrome.  I believe I started having this problem ... bogging down and crashing Chrome ... about early March 2016.  I am running Windows 7.  Have been looking and looking for a solution and never dawned on me it might be NIS until I saw a post on another site and Webroot Identity Protection was causing the same issue I had with NIS.  

Tomorrow I am going to give it a try using your 14 step process and will post the results.  

Thanks!

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hi RibEye,

Pretty nifty info on the workaround - if I may, I'd like to make a couple of suggestions to make it easier for the less tech savey to accomplish.

- When you mention go here and download the updater - identify it as the Intelligent Updater (to match your later comment to run the Intelligent Updater as often as you would normally run live update).

- Spell out which automatic updates to disable.  I'm afraid an inexperienced user may disable something they should not - like Auto-Protect. 

-  As you are running V 21,  you may desire to add turn off Automatic Download of New Version under Administrative Settings to your list of setting changes.  If the version updated to v22 Norton could not be installed as the system is SSE2.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Rich, have you found a solution yet?  I mean, a real solution .. not a temporary workaround.

I keep a copy of NAV 21.7.x.x on an old legacy computer w/o SSE2 CPU as well.  And per Symantec, this should be possible.  On their Support-Help Site they write: The newest version of our Norton product (22.x.x.x) requires SSE2 compatibility to run. The Norton product version that is compatible with your processor [SSE] is 21.7.x.x.

As was the case with you (and probably many other legacy users), out of the blue, probably after a live/pulse update, neither Firefox nor IE works.  The former won't start at all (error) and the latter starts and bombs out.  This is unacceptable.

Calling or Chatting with Symantec/Norton's support is useless as the guys (if they speak English at all) have no clue about the issue and indeed what I'm talking about.

A fix is needed from Symantec/Norton .. so do something.  I know that you are indeed checking this forum on a regular basis.  TIA.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

CeeBee, that is a serious relief. I know that it is not for you, but it is for me, knowing that I am not the only one. Confirmation is good. Unfortunately, the ball is in the hands of the Symantec coding department. I would imagine, once enough folks determine that the problem is with NIS, the powers that be will have to decide to go ahead and leave us old timers in the dust, or to find out what the problem is and fix it. Fewer and fewer folks are using the older CPUs.

I did find another with the same problem, but he is using Norton 360, and Live Update is killing his browsers too. He used Power Erasure, and it fixed his issue until Live Update broke him again. That is all I know about him. I recommended that he join us in here.

I could not get the support folks in India to commit to letting me know when the coding department has duplicated the problem and has created a patch to correct it. In fact, they would not, as usual, admit that a problem exists for anyone but me. I suggest that you get on the Norton Chat, and let them know that another long-time customer has been affected. I would be interested to see if my workaround is made available to you. I did give it to them, clearly and directly.

Unless I am contacted (not likely), I will have to periodically kick off a Live Update and see if it breaks my browsers, then go through the hassle of my workaround, to get them back. Please, whoever does this and does not get broken, please report back, and I will do likewise, if I am the first.

As for Norton support, in India, I hope that Symantec Corp is not paying very much for the service, because it is truly dismal. As previously stated, it would definitely not pass the Turing test (Google it and chuckle). I could get graphic very easily, so I will shut up now. I am a software engineer, so I know that support can be better. I have done it, and made customers actually happy. Oh well...it is what it is. We can help each other as much as is possible from outside.

Thanks for the confirmation of the problem. As previously stated, it is a great relief to me.

Please note that my issue with support is with the hopeless support fellows in India, not with the Norton folks here in the forum. I have no experience with Norton folks in the forum, solving or not solving issues.

Actually, I would not mind being on the coding team. I am generally impressed with the Symantec products. However, when a patch breaks something, it sure breaks it good. Last time, it prevented NIS from running at all, so no Live Updates could be obtained, so no fix was possible until I came up with a similar workaround. This time, all browsers are SNAFU'd, so folks with 1 PC can't find out what the problem is. At least NIS and Live Update continue to run this time, but I don't trust NIS to protect me, since I don't know how deep the bad patch goes, and what else is affected. I am confident in my workaround getting adequate AV protection back, but I could be fooling myself, since I don't know what necessary patches have been implemented since my older version of NIS was released.

yank, your contributions are valid and valuable. I guess I presume too much proficiency, on the part of folks that find their way in here.

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Rich, this is what I'll do (have done):

1. I'll re-image the c: drive to an earlier date (when Firefox/IE worked).  Then I'll turn off all Norton updates and I'll keep it that way as long as it takes to get/find a fix.  Presumably no SSE2 modules will be downloaded, but, who knows.

Not good, as I won't have the latest definition updates.  But, better than nothing...

2. I PM:ed a reliable Symantec staffer with a link to this thread, asking him to look into this issue asap.  We'll see what happens...

There is always Avast! free as a good alternative if no solution is found.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Don't forget to keep your virus definitions current via Intelligent Updater, as I linked to, above. The Updater files are huge (> 400 MB), so I hope your internet connection is not metered. As far as I can tell, the Updater files contain no patches, just virus signatures. I could be wrong. If I find that I am (I got bit), I'll report it in here.

As for me, I intend to update my signatures once per week. Instead of once, per day, as previous to the most recent Live Update mine. I have a practice of keeping Silent Mode active on all of my NIS-protected machines. That way, updates and scans are at my good pleasure, instead of right in the middle of an important task. Bandwidth is limited on my slower machines.

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I'll wait some days and if Firefox 45.1.1esr is still able to load/run then I'll try the direct definition download link.  Like in the old days, sort of.

The 440MB takes me about 5 minutes to fetch @ circa 1.4MB/sec.  No big deal.

But, the whole process is time consuming and indeed unnecessary .. especially as this is not supposed to happen.  Symantec, listen!  Be nice guys and fix this asap.  TIA.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

dkberry2:

Rich -- Have exactly same problem except with Google Chrome.  I believe I started having this problem ... bogging down and crashing Chrome ... about early March 2016.  I am running Windows 7.

Hi dkberry2:

If you use a Chrome browser (which requires a Pentium 4 processor or later that's SSE2 capable) and Win 7 then your CPU likely supports the newer SSE2 instruction set.  If you aren't sure you can run Piriform's free Speccy utility to check your CPU specs.  Piriform also offers a portable version of Speccy <here> that can be unzipped and run off a USB stick if you don't want to install Speccy on your computer.

RibEye and CeeBee were both affected by an Aug 2014 LiveUpdate that caused browsers to crash on older computers with CPU processors that did not support SSE2 (see sewing1243's thread Most recent updates crashed NIS for one example), so I wouldn't be surprised if Symantec has pushed out another bad Intrusion Prevention System (IPS) engine or definitions update that only affects Norton v21.7.0.11 users with older XP/Vista computers.

I suspect your Chrome problems are unrelated to the current IE8 and Firefox issues being discussed in this thread, and if that proves to be the case then you might want to start your own thread in the Tech Outpost board to give your problem better exposure.

EDIT:

I just checked my NIS security history (History | Show | Intrusion Prevention) and it shows that a 11-May-2016 Automatic LiveUpdate updated the driver for my IP engine from v15.0.2.19 to v15.1.0.1263.  That might explain why RIbEye's workaround to deliver Virus Definitions via the offline Intelligent Updater works - because this Intelligent Updater will only update traditional file-based virus definitions and not other security updates listed <here> like IPS.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * Speccy 1.29

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

RibEye and CeeBee were both affected by an Aug 2014 LiveUpdate that caused browsers to crash on older computers with CPU processors that did not support SSE2...

Actually, in my case, this problem started on May 5, 2016 while on NAV 21.7.0.11.  After a re-image to April 29th I was fine until today when both Firefox and IE crashed per the above.  I did another re-image, this time returning to May 11th, and a subsequent nixing of all updates under NAV's settings.  Still running as of now.  I may try to manually update the defs in some days.  Just to clarify...

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

CeeBee:

Actually, in my case, this problem started on May 5, 2016 while on NAV 21.7.0.11.

Hi CeeBee:

The release history for the IPS security updates for NAV at https://www.symantec.com/security_response/securityupdates/list.jsp?fid=nav&pvid=nav shows that Security Update 1571 (definition set 20160504.001) was initially released on 05-May-2016 and that "This security update provides an engine update". The IPS release history for NIS at https://www.symantec.com/security_response/securityupdates/list.jsp?fid=nis&pvid=nis shows the same thing.

My NIS security history shows that I did not receive definition set 20160504.001 [ i.e., my IPS definitions skipped from 20160503.001 (rel. 04-May-2016) directly to 20160508.001 on 09-May-2016)] and my IP engine remained at v7.4.0.83 until it was updated to v7.6.0.216 on 11-May-2016 with 20160510.005] so I wonder if the 05-May-2016 definition set 20160504.001 was pulled from the LiveUpdate servers because of an issue with the IPS engine update in that security update.

Norton v22.6 users have also been requesting information about a new set of SDS Definitions that was delivered by LiveUpdate the first week of May 2016 (see Brocktoon's 06-May-2016 thread Norton SDS Definitions? for one example) but I've looked through my LiveUpdate history dating back to May 4th and can't find any evidence that this Static Data Scanner was ever delivered to my older Norton v21.7 product.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I'm not seeing any IPS activity in my history, but my history prior to the booby-trapped LiveUpdate was lost in the R&R of NIS.

I wonder if there is a way to roll back errant patches (engine updates, etc), without having to R&R the whole show.

Nice links to the product update history pages. Thanks. I have bookmarked them.

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hi Imacri, it all feels like a bad case of déjà vu .. as I think I/we went through a similar (but different) SSE incompatibility crash sequence a couple of years ago.  At that time Symantec had added SSE2 code to one of the NAV modules, but I don't recall the details.  They fixed it, but, it took some time and a few crashes/workarounds...

As for IPS being the culprit this time, I noted this Security History on my laptop (with SSE2), which shows when I received IPE version 7.6.0.217 (excerpts):

05/12/2016 15:59:48,Intrusion Prevention Engine version: 7.6.0.217
05/12/2016 15:33:25,Intrusion Prevention Engine version: 7.4.0.83

Presumably the same (or close to same) update sequence happened on my old XP/SSE computer.  If so, the latest crash happened after IPE version: 7.6.0.217 had been installed earlier today.

As comparison, after re-imaging the XP/SSE computer and nixing all updates, the Security History on old computer looks like this (excerpts):

05/13/2016 13:26:38,Intrusion Prevention Engine version: 7.4.0.83
05/11/2016 06:50:11,Intrusion Prevention Engine version: 7.4.0.83

As you can see, after re-imaging back to May 11th, no IPE update .. and I'm still okay.  Using Firefox right now...

But, this is not the solution.  Still need Symantec to step in with a fix to this or whatever it may be) asap.  This FWIW.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

CeeBee:

Hi Imacri, it all feels like a bad case of déjà vu .. as I think I/we went through a similar (but different) SSE incompatibility crash sequence a couple of years ago.  At that time Symantec had added SSE2 code to one of the NAV modules, but I don't recall the details.  They fixed it, but, it took some time and a few crashes/workarounds...

Hi CeeBee:

Back in Sept 2014, I believe that Symantec fixed the problem by releasing a new IP driver that was re-compiled with the option for SSE support enabled, per the somewhat cryptic post by Symantec employee chi_zhang in the thread Knock Knock Norton Are You There? Any Word On The LiveUpdate Issue Mentioned In These Threads?:

"The Symantec just release the new version 14.1 which fixes the crash. Please run liveupdate to get the latest update."

My post <here> indicates that those browser crashes on older XP/Vista machines were fixed in Sept 2014 after an update to the IPS script engine IPSEng32.dll (or possibly one of the other IPS .dll driver files) from v14.0.0.431 to v14.1.0.14.

I might be completely wrong that the latest browser crashes with Norton v21.7.0.11 on older computers have something to with SSE/SSE2 and the recent IP engine/driver updates, but it certainly does sound like a bad case of déjà vu.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Deleted my post as not relevant -- sorry about that!

Hugh
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I'll wait some days and if Firefox 45.1.1esr is still able to load/run then I'll try the direct definition download link...

Decided to try it now.  So, I imaged the c: drive to have a fresh copy in case of need .. and then downloaded and installed the latest NAV definitions manually (440MB).  As far as I can determine, only virus definitions were updated and not the IPS stuff.  This was also confirmed by checking my Security History.

At any rate, no problems with Firefox or IE after the update.  FYI.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

CeeBee:
.. and then downloaded and installed the latest NAV definitions manually (440MB).  As far as I can determine, only virus definitions were updated and not the IPS stuff.  This was also confirmed by checking my Security History.

Hi CeeBee:

I just wanted to confirm that the Intelligent Updater described in the support article How to update the virus definition files using Intelligent Updater will only download the latest 420 MB full set of traditional (file-based) virus definitions.  These definitions use the SHA256 hash of a downloaded file to determine if the file is a known threat and has been added to the blacklist.

If you go to the Virus Definitions & Security Updates page at http://us.norton.com/security_response/definitions.jsp and select your Norton product from the dropdown list, clicking the Definitions link under File-Based Protection (Traditional Antivirus) will redirect you to the Intelligent Updater.  The Virus Definitions & Security Updates page notes that updates for Intrusion Prevention (network-based IPS) and heuristic (behaviour-based) attack signatures can only be downloaded via LiveUpdate.  Clicking the Release History links will redirect to detailed information on the threats and vulnerabilities added to each daily definition set update.

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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Thanks, that's where I fetched my definitions download.  Used to do this (or similar) years ago when the Live Updater didn't work.  During NT4 times or even before that .. going all the way back to PcDOS.  Anyhow, the d/l seems to work okay.

Had a brief Live Chat exchange with Support.  I gave a link to this thread and asked that a support person should look into the matter and post an update right here on the forum.  The exchange was only partially productive, as I didn't get any useful answers (except we'll look into this...).

I finally ended my chat hoping for the best!  I'll spare you the details (not constructive), hoping instead that Symantec really does look into this and finds a fix asap. 

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Sorry if I missed something, but can't you just turn off Intrusion Prevention? 

If your not able to update it your not getting full protection anyway. Instead of IPS, I would have guessed turning off browser protection and disabling the browsers plugins would have allowed you to use them without crashing.

Dave

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

CeeBee

I finally ended my chat hoping for the best! 

We live in hope! 

It's not unkind to the CHAT people who an excellent job helping users on known problems to say that on the whole these Forum are probably a better place to get the attention of the Norton Staff who deal with the new problems and are involved in actual programming and QC.

You may not see them visibly -- names in red -- that often but some of them read every message here but rely on us users to do an initial "triage" and help from our own experience when we can -- just as you are doing. And those users here with the "Guru" label do have our own area and routes direct to such Norton Staff.

So thanks for covering both sides.

I'm glad that I'm not suffering this problem myself .... I'm using Windows 7 Home Premium 32 bit version and although IE is my default I do use FF on some sites (eg HP) but I don't activate the Norton Tool Bar or Identity Safe ....

PS We both have about the same history of computer involvement although I started with Tandy -- the TRS4P and then the 2000 -- before getting a Toshiba laptop with WfWG3.11 and then moving on. Fortunately I never really had to use DOS especially for internet access.

Actually my first computer was the remarkable HP 9845 -- worth looking at if you are interested in history. An almost perfect design for non-technical users to use on highly technical uses (graphical analysis of data)  considering how technology has changed since then!

Sorry to ramble ....

Hugh
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

You may not see them visibly -- names in red -- that often but some of them read every message here but rely on us users to do an initial "triage"...

Hi Hugh, indeed, I had hoped (still hope...) that one of the 'red labeled' fellas would pick up the issue and push it with the smart coders .. so we get back to order asap.  Think I have done what I can for now, so I'll relax for a while.

-------

On the OT side, my 1st computer was an IBM 286/10MHz with 1MB memory and a 30MB HD.  Thought I never be able to fill that drive.  Still have/use one of the programs from that time, even on my W7 computer.  Works fine.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

CeeBee

Hi Hugh, indeed, I had hoped (still hope...) that one of the 'red labeled' fellas would pick up the issue and push it with the smart coders .. so we get back to order asap.  Think I have done what I can for now, so I'll relax for a while.

The RedCoats are well aware of the problem since I'm sure my fellow gurus have drawn attention to it already. That they don't post is a matter of Priorities -- if we can handle the messaging and report the emergencies then they can get on with the fixing.....

Let's chat in Tech Outpost on computing history if you feel like it ....

Hugh
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

DaveH:

Sorry if I missed something, but can't you just turn off Intrusion Prevention? 

If your not able to update it your not getting full protection anyway. Instead of IPS, I would have guessed turning off browser protection and disabling the browsers plugins would have allowed you to use them without crashing.

Hi DaveH:

Disabling browser protection was suggested as temporary workaround in the old Norton antivirus update interferes with Internet Explorer 8 on window XP (new issue?) thread - see sewing1243's original suggestion in the thread Most recent updates crashed NIS - but I don't recall anyone ever posting back with feedback on whether this worked when IPS definitions were fully patched.

The Norton Toolbar v2014.x extension is no longer supported in Firefox for NIS v21.7.0.11 users so the Norton browser extensions should already be automatically disabled when RibEye and CeeBee are using their Firefox browser.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

deleted

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.1.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

During my initial triage operations, I tried disabling Browser Protection. This had no effect. The browsers still could not open. I posted this in one of my first posts to this thread. It would be easy to miss, among all of the other info posted since then.

The Browser Protection module/library would be the first place I would look for the problem. Intrusion Prevention seems to speak of probes and other attacks to routers and such. Looking from the outside, I can't tell the way protection is distributed in the overall application. When the errant code is in place, I do not know how much protection is taken out, along with the inability to open browsers. It does not appear that internet communication in general is not affected, but I can't confirm that, because I immediately disabled internet access until I was able to get NIS back up and running.

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

RibEye:

During my initial triage operations, I tried disabling Browser Protection. This had no effect. The browsers still could not open. I posted this in one of my first posts to this thread. It would be easy to miss, among all of the other info posted since then.

Hi RibEye:

Thanks for confirming that disabling Browser Protection did not solve the problem, and apologies for missing the comment that you posted <here> in an earlier post.

I don't know if disabling Intrusion Prevention (Settings | Network | Intrusion Prevention | Intrusion Prevention | OFF) would allow your browsers to function normally, but if you or CeeBee ever test with a fully patched system (i.e., with IPS definitions updated to IPS engine v7.6.0.217 / IPS driver v15.1.0.1263 or later by LiveUpdate) it would be interesting to see if this worked as a temporary workaround.

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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I'm thinking that I might give Live Update a shot, once per week. If I do and my browsers get hosed, I will try disabling Intrusion Prevention, to see what affect that has. I do not recommend running your system, connected to the web with either, Browser Protection, or Intrusion Prevention disabled. It is simply not safe. However, if that is the only way to get here, via browser (you only have the one machine), it is a chance you may carefully decide to take.

I'm thinking that I don't run a Live Update risk until hearing an acknowledgement of the problem from a Norton employee. It does no good to take the risk until attempts have been made to correct the problem. R&R'ing NIS is not without its own risks.

I am willing to try updates, as possible fixes are rolled out, since I do have a viable test bed. I am not willing to ping Live Update until I happen to stumble into a fixed patch, however. If a Norton employee, or other viable source says, "We may have a fix. Try it now," I am willing.

We don't even know if Norton intends to address this issue at all yet. There does seem to be a small number of affected customers...cost vs. benefit analysis. I do want to emphasize that the manifestation of the problem does not intuitively point to NIS, so the number of folks reporting the issue to Norton might very small, compared to the number of affected users.. Some might not even be able to access the web, via browsers, to google the existence of the problem.

Chat support denies that anyone has the problem, but me...Typical

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hi @RibEye, @CeeBee @dkberry2,

Sorry for delay in response. I have sent you a private message requesting logs via forums for further investigation. Please check it when you get a chance. Thanks

Sunil_GA | Norton Forums Administrator | Symantec Corporation
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I'm sorry, the request requires me to install software and grant access to my machine to others. I am legally restricted from granting such access. The affected machine is loaded with proprietary and legally privileged data, as well as protected trade secrets.

I have provided all that I have been able to glean about the issue, in my above posts. If there are specifics about my system, beyond what I have provided above, please make your requests in this thread, and I will comply if I can.

Maybe others with this issue can grant you access to their machines. I cannot.

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I have sent you a private message requesting logs via forums for further investigation.

Thanks, PM received.

As has been pointed out, I use NAV 21.7.0.11 under Windows XP Pro Sp3.  As for the logs, I can't reproduce the issue(s) without enabling updates and let NAV install the latest IP drivers.  I'm very reluctant to do so as that will reintroduce the crash issues I have spent time to work around.

And, for (business) confidentiality reasons, I can not allow remote access to the computer in question, especially as I don't know what your 'logger' program is doing/modifying.

Suggestion: look into the SSE-SSE2 matter mention in this thread and the below in further detail: https://community.norton.com/en/forums/message-norton-symantec

Happy to provide any information I can (control).  Thanks for your efforts.  Best, CB

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hello @Sunil_GA

Responses to you are in the Thread posts from CeeBee and RibEye . Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.1.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Old computer specification:-
AMD Athlon(TM) XP1800+ (processor does not support SSE2)
System Memory 1.5 GB
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3 fully up to date with Windows Update
Internet Explorer 8

Norton Internet Security 2012 (because of computer spec)


Recently, when I tried to open IE8, it started and then immediately closed down.
I tried to open it a number of times with the same result.

If I start the computer in Safe Mode with Networking, IE8 opens OK.

As far as I know nothing has changed since IE8 used to work OK.

I also have Google Chrome installed and that works OK.

Measures I have tried:-

Reset IE8 - unfortunately it made no difference.
System Restore back to when it was working properly - made no difference.
Starting IE8 without addons - made no difference.
Created a new user, then tested IE8 while logged in as the new user - made no difference.
Disabled NIS2012 Antivirus Auto-Protect - made no difference.
Disabled NIS2012 Smart Firewall - made no difference.

Ran NIS2012 Full System Scan - No threats found.

This may be of interest:-
Uninstalled NIS2012 and IE8 opens OK.
Reinstalled NIS2012 and problem returns, IE8 starts and then immediately closed down.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Have just noticed the link https://community.norton.com/en/forums/latest-update-causes-ie-and-firefox-bomb-out-initial-open which is dealing with this issue.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Just an FYI that we have another Win XP SP3 user with a CPU that does not support the SSE2 instruction set having the same problem.  See PinguJohn's thread IE8 Opens And Closes Immediately (Win XP SP3, NIS2012).
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hi @PinguJohn,

I have sent you a private message requesting logs via forums for further investigation. Please check it when you get a chance. Thanks

Sunil_GA | Norton Forums Administrator | Symantec Corporation
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

As I don't know what Symantec and Sunil are up to (remember: Transparency is King), let me add the following "not too scientific" observations.  However, to me this speaks volumes.  To Symantec it may not.  But, we'll see...

Comparing the C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus folders before and after upgrading the IP drivers (as described in detail elsewhere), and, thus, before and after the IE8 and Firefox 45.1.1 error/crash issue started for me, I note this:

Folders and Files in Branding, Engine, MUI are the same before-after whereas NortonData changed. To see this I made two JPG files (printscreen) which speak for themselves:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The configuration on the left is what I have tried several times, with same result: both IE and Firefox won't start or crash.

The configuration on the right is what I use now and it works fine.  Autoupdate is shut of and definitions are updated by manual download. 

As I said, not very scientific at all .. but imo should provide the "Powers" with some clues.  Cheers...

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Partial solution follows .....

Talk about goddam deja effing vu.

I too have a very old computer without SSE2, and about a year and a half ago got caught with a NIS update that screwed its workings. https://community.norton.com/en/comment/5450483#comment-5450483 It took Norton a couple of weeks to fix that one.

So here I am again after spending most of my working day trying to get to the root cause of why IE8 bombs, and Firefox throws up the error 0xc000001d before crashing. Been crashing for the past few days, and after ruling out a virus, used System Restore to go back a couple of days. This worked ... until all my System Restore files vanished (I had done a defrag, which apparently System Restore didn't like), and so couldn't do that anymore. Also working in SafeMode, Firefox & IE8 both worked, so I could see it was a conflicting software problem. Googling led me to the Malwarebytes site, which also had this error, and also whose latest version doesn't work on old non-SSE2 computers. As I has just updated MBytes I seemingly spent my fruitless hours installing, uninstalling, new, then old, then new versions (& repeat), starting, stopping services, and etc, assuming MBytes was the cause. I ran out of ideas on that and had no luck, and decided to use procmon.exe to have a closer look. In the roughly 1½ seconds I ran it and tested starting Firefox (which of course crashed), 24000+ events were logged, but at event 16331, I saw where windows calls up the sound file I use to alert a crash. Two dozen lines above this, there was NIS checking Firefox out (see screengrab attached). So that led me here to see Norton had screwed up on the non-SSE2 problem again.

The above solution about uninstalling NIS, and installing an earlier version with updates turned off, would work (as it did a year & a half ago). Kudos to those above with this solution, and using the Intelligent Downloader to get updates. I was about to go down this route. But tried something else first.

The solution I found doesn't need an uninstall, or even reboot :

Navigate to the Progam Files\Norton Internet Security\NortonData folder on your computer. Then (at least on my machine) I opened folder 21.6.0.32, then Definitions. Using clues from the procmon grab, I opened IPSDefs, where there are a number of folders, the latest in date of which I assumed might be the problem : 20160517.001

I simply renamed this folder to 20160517.001.dud then tried starting Firefox. Well, that was an effing whoop of joy as Firefox actually started ! (Also IE8 worked too).

So, partial solution. But you still need to disable NIS's automatic updates (or it will reinstall the folder), and Norton still need to properly fix this.

文件附件: 
Twas brillig, and slithy toves did ....
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I simply renamed this folder to 20160517.001.dud then tried starting Firefox. Well, that was an effing whoop of joy as Firefox actually started ! (Also IE8 worked too).

The fix you used confirmed what I have said all along .. but check your Security History to be sure Intrusion Prevention started and is enabled.

As for me, I never uninstall/reinstall .. just re-imaged the drive.  Pretty effortless, however, a waist of time nevertheless!

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

The_Yeti:

Partial solution follows .....

Navigate to the Progam Files\Norton Internet Security\NortonData folder on your computer. Then (at least on my machine) I opened folder 21.6.0.32, then Definitions. Using clues from the procmon grab, I opened IPSDefs, where there are a number of folders, the latest in date of which I assumed might be the problem : 20160517.001

I simply renamed this folder to 20160517.001.dud then tried starting Firefox. Well, that was an effing whoop of joy as Firefox actually started ! (Also IE8 worked too).

Hi The_Yeti:

Nice catch, and welcome back to the forum.  This is beginning to look like a high school reunion - you, RibEye, CeeBee, and PinguJohn all posting about SSE, IPS definitions and browser crashes again.  

If anyone is going to try patching their system and using The _Yeti's workaround to rename the IPSDefs folder, I'd be curious to know if simply turning off Intrusion Prevention as suggested <here> (i.e, before the folder is renamed) actually works.  If turning off Intrusion Prevention allows your browsers to open normally then you could leave Automatic LiveUpdates enabled, assuming that Settings | Network | Intrusion Prevention | Intrusion Prevention | OFF actually shuts down IPSEng32.dll / IPSLdr32.dll and the entire Intrusion Prevention System (IPS).
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox v46.0.1 * NIS v21.7.0.11 * MBAM Premium v2.2.1

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I have been informed that the security issue with Norton products has been rectified. However, for those affected by the problem in this thread, we are barred from closing the security hole, because we cannot use live update to obtain the security fix. Some patch being downloaded via live update breaks our browsers. Is there a way to obtain and install the security fix without using live update? Of even...is the security fix the actual cause of our browser issues?

To the Norton employees and/or gurus: is Norton going to address our issue, as put forward in this thread? I am not feeling impatient. I am not grumbling. I am seeking information. I would simply like an acknowledgement of the issue and a statement of intent. I can wait for the fix. If there is no intent, I need to know this, so I can take whatever action will be necessary/possible to secure my affected computer(s).

@imacri ... I do not think that disabling Intrusion Protection, even if such act allows our browsers to open and run, is acceptable for anything but an additional contribution to those coders seeking to discover the errant code. If I do try Live Update, and my browsers again are broken, I will try disabling Intrusion Protection, to see what effect such action has on the issue at hand. In any case, I will have to R&R NIS and go back to what I am doing now (updating the virus signatures via Intelligent Updater downloads).

Enjoy,

Rich P

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Comment deleted.  Hopefully Sunil_GA is monitoring this thread and will be able to answer your questions.
 

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hello RibEye

Since the Engine Update was part of an Antivirus Definition, it makes sense to me that if you get the Intelligent Updater for May 16, 17, and 18, I would think that you will have received the updated engine which is version 20151.1.1.4 if the Intelligent Updater contains all of the Antivirus Updates for that particular day. Since I don't know the cutoff time for each day, I have included a couple of extra days.

However, this is nothing official, just my opinion of things.

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.1.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

As to the Symantec Security Advisory (OT but relevant), excerpts from Sunil's response in the relevant thread suggest: ...look for NAVENG32.DLL file. If its 20151.1.1.4 then the fix has been applied and product is not vulnerable.

As I'm affected by the crash issues in this thread, I'm downloading definitions manually, last time yesterday, September 18th.  Checking the version of NAVENG32.dll (see below screenshot) it is 20151.1.1.4 and thus patched!  Fwiw.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hi CeeBee,

Just to be clear, are you saying that yesterday, Norton sent an update that fixes the SSE problem ? I note the file you list is in the VirusDefs folder, not the IPSDefs folder. As the problem was in the IPSDefs folder, at the moment I'm still a little dubious.


Anyway, since yesterday, I've had a chance to reboot, and I see that NIS is automatically disabling the Intrusion Prevention setting. I tried re-enabling it, but NIS just switches it off again. So I guess my fiddling with the folder name means I have no Intrusion Prevention running at the mo. To be honest, I'm just so glad to be able to connect to the web, that I can't care . Fixing work computers isn't actually what I do for a living, so this has cost me a chunk of a day already.

As the problem was in the latest IPSDefs folder which only has about 25 files in it, and is almost the same as a working folder created a day or so before, I would assume a Norton software person could fix it within half a day, if they can spare the expense . Presumably its actually only one file causing the problem.

I also wonder that if I copy files from the another earlier (working) folder within the IPSDefs folder into the folder I renamed, whether Intrusion Prevention would start working again. I don't have the time to try this - I'll leave it to you guys ...

Twas brillig, and slithy toves did ....
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

...are you saying that yesterday, Norton sent an update that fixes the SSE problem ?

No, that's not what I'm saying and why I noted that it was off topic (OT).  It concerns issues covered here: https://community.norton.com/en/comment/7007701#comment-7007701 but raised in this thread (off topic).

...I guess my fiddling with the folder name means I have no Intrusion Prevention running at the mo.

Probably not, which isn't a good idea imo.  Not sure that copying files around the Norton NIS or in my case NAV folders is a solution, as soon you'll lose track of what's going on.  And your Norton product probably too.  But, you could try .. and you'll find out.

If you have a backup from the time before the crash, maybe better to restore the whole IPSDefs folder.  However, that may not work either due to the possible interconnection to other folder-files locations or registry entries.  Or, as I do, re-image the whole C: drive to before the crash.  Better safe than sorry.

I frankly have no time for this either.  I wish the Symantec fellows read this thread and acted accordingly.  In some ways the people here have done the prep-work and diagnostics.

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

I decided to un-rename the folder I changed before back to its original name, to see if there were any changes. On reboot, both Firefox & IE crashed again. So no.

In the meantime NIS had installed a newer folder into the IPSDefs folder : 20160518.001. Instead of renaming this one, I poked around inside this folder.

All you have to do now is rename two files : scrx86ff.dat and scrx86ie.dat. And voila ! Firefox & IE both work again. The 'ff' and 'ie' in the dat file name apparently refering to ... well figure it out
Also, Intrusion Prevention seems to be working now - although whether it will still after another reboot, I don't know yet.

And BTW, just disabling Intrusion Prevention through the NIS Settings does not work - Firefox & IE will still crash.

Twas brillig, and slithy toves did ....
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for providing more information. We have reported this issue to the team and they are currently investigating further on this. We will update this thread once we have more information. Thanks

Sunil_GA | Norton Forums Administrator | Symantec Corporation
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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Thanks to Sunil & Symantec...

Potius sero quam numquam!

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Re: Latest Update causes IE and Firefox to bomb out on initial open

Hello

Information is sent to Symantec without posts being made and reminders also.to Employees to post back since information from Gurus isn't always enough. Not all users (customers I prefer) know that we have a 2 way street with them.

Thanks.

Success always occurs in private and failure in full view. Windows 7 Pro 64 bit Norton Core Security Plus 22.17.1.50 Core Firmware 282 I E 11 Chrome latest version.

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