Complaints about NSS/NIS

OK, before I give any of my complaints I would like to say something.  For many years I was an avid Norton usewr and supporter, that all changed when Norton DESTROYED two, count them , TWO Hard Drives in two seperate XP systems(this was back in 04).  Now before you say this was caused by User error, both systems wer D/C from the internet, and had fresh installs of Windows, Norton itself was installed from a VALID NORTON CD.  When norton installed it requested a restart, upon restart the computers stated the ther WERE NO IDE DRIVES INSTALLED, and upon later testing it was found that the drives themselves had been destroyed.

 

Now that that is out of the way.

 

My complaints:

 

1. The users inability to set things to be automatic.

2. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user installs an AV program other than Norton.

3. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user attempts to use third party programs(eg, CCleaner, HJT, Spybot)

4. The Users inability to DISABLE Norton startup when it causes problems

5. The INEFFECTIVENESS of Norton to PREVENT and LOCATE problems(eg. a KNOWN virus was scanned by Norton, AVG Free, and PIS.  It WAS NOT detected by Norton)

 

As a Technician I know how to DISABLE Norton from Windows startup, but I WILL NOT publicly give out the information, as it is MY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

 

I am not attempting to be anything but nice, in my own way of course.  If anyone has any rebuttle for any of what I have said It is welcom.  As is ANY known and working solution to any of my complaints.

 


Kassus wrote:

OK, before I give any of my complaints I would like to say something.  For many years I was an avid Norton usewr and supporter, that all changed when Norton DESTROYED two, count them , TWO Hard Drives in two seperate XP systems(this was back in 04).  Now before you say this was caused by User error, both systems wer D/C from the internet, and had fresh installs of Windows, Norton itself was installed from a VALID NORTON CD.  When norton installed it requested a restart, upon restart the computers stated the ther WERE NO IDE DRIVES INSTALLED, and upon later testing it was found that the drives themselves had been destroyed.

 

Now that that is out of the way.

 

My complaints:

 

1. The users inability to set things to be automatic.

2. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user installs an AV program other than Norton.  

That is the way it is suppose to be 2 AV programs are to be installed at the same time for a hand full of reasons, All Security program vendors and good technicians been trained know that and why.

 

3. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user attempts to use third party programs(eg, CCleaner, HJT, Spybot)

There is no conflict with Norton with CCleaner and HJT (Hijackthis) If you are meaning HJT shows Norton / Symantec in the list, as a Service, BHO etc.  It's suppose to.

Spybot S&D in realtime with Norton and Spybot with it's Teatimer Module is not a good idea as discussed prevoiusly on the Forum. (2 realtime Products) Spybot also interfers with other more advanced tools I have.


4. The Users inability to DISABLE Norton startup when it causes problems

5. The INEFFECTIVENESS of Norton to PREVENT and LOCATE problems(eg. a KNOWN virus was scanned by Norton, AVG Free, and PIS.  It WAS NOT detected by Norton)

 

As a Technician I know how to DISABLE Norton from Windows startup, but I WILL NOT publicly give out the information, as it is MY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

 

I am not attempting to be anything but nice, in my own way of course.  If anyone has any rebuttle for any of what I have said It is welcom.  As is ANY known and working solution to any of my complaints.


Quads

 

2. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user installs an AV program other than Norton.  

That is the way it is suppose to be 2 AV programs are to be installed at the same time for a hand full of reasons, All Security program vendors and good technicians been trained know that and why.

On, MY system, I run 2 AV programs.  PIS(Panda) and AVG, and I have NEVER had any conflicts between the 2.  Also, I have seen other systems with several AV programs installed, and Norton is the FIrst that I have seen cause a problem when more than one AV program is installed.

 

3. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user attempts to use third party programs(eg, CCleaner, HJT, Spybot)

There is no conflict with Norton with CCleaner and HJT (Hijackthis) If you are meaning HJT shows Norton / Symantec in the list, as a Service, BHO etc.  It's suppose to.

Spybot S&D in realtime with Norton and Spybot with it's Teatimer Module is not a good idea as discussed prevoiusly on the Forum. (2 realtime Products) Spybot also interfers with other more advanced tools I have.

Norton is picking up CCleaner and HJT as malware.  Spybot will NOT run at all.  However, I can understnd the Teatimer Module conflicting.

All Major AV vendors know an alot of the time around the web state Not to have more than 1 security product installed at one time. I have known for years, and so do so many every day users.

It's is your choice to have AVG and Panda Internet Security installed at the same time, but that means your complaint about Norton conflicting is not Nortons fault as you have other realtime AV's installed.

 

I have no problem running HJT or CCleaner,  the last time I tried Spybot S&D 1.6 as On demand I had no problem either, But then again I only had Norton installed no other AV's from Avast, AVG, Bitdefender, Kaspersky, Panda, McAfee, Trend Micro.....................

Your problem then is more than likely, easy to see with what shouldn't be done.

 

To me all complaint about Norton are null and void, due to what you have done above.

 

Quads

I am complaining due to a CUSTOMERS computer.

Hi Kassus,

 

I have to agree with Quads that running multiple AV programs is not recommended, and that some of your complaints may be due to the consequences of having this configuration.  It even raises my curiousitly about the destroyed hard drives, should you have been installing Norton onto a machine that already had other security software.  Changes to the Windows kernel made by a newly installing AV program could certainly be mistaken as the work of a virus by a resident AV program.  The resulting battle could have caused some major issues, for sure.  I once read an article where the author attempted this as an experiment and the results were not pretty - the hard drive was not destroyed, but it was a nice day if you like blue screens.

I have been using CCleaner on my computers for generations of NIS and N360 (I multiboot and I have had several desktops and laptops over the years) and I have never had any problems and certainly no warnings from Norton about CCleaner.

 

When you refer to Complaints about NSS/NIS as your topic could you please be a little more specific -- The only NSS I can think of is Norton Security Suite which may be the COMCAST modified version of Norton 360 -- since this contains elements that overlap with CCleaner it might be identified as a conflict but I don't get that with Norton 360.

Could you clarify and give the version numbers or at least the years since the performance, tailorabiltiy/tweakability and impact vary over the versions and the improvements over the years is very noticeable.

 

I only have a min, so, its the NSS that come from Comcast.  When I have the time I will check the version numbers

Interesting post.

 

Don't know what to make of the hard drive errors you had back in the day.  I've seen it happen where this error cropped up on restart after a clean install of Windows using imaged software (as IT folks are wont to do) - the result often due to missing or corrupted device drivers (namely the IDE controller) on the imaged copy.  Normally not a problem if the OS and device drivers are up to date before adding application and/or security software on top of it from what I've seen.  Too far back and too many variables to say for sure, but I think the OS would be the more likely culprit.

 

Other comments keyed to the succeeding paragraph:

 

1.  There's a spate of automatic set-and-forget features with NIS, making it probably one of the most boring pieces of software I've ever used.  I check things, run live update manually, run an occasion scan just so I feel like I'm contributing somehow.

 

2.  As others have pointed out, for a host of reasons realtime AV software doesn't play well together.  At all. 

 

3.  I've never had a problem with NIS and third party software.  My computer and internet habits probably account for this.  I keep the OS, browsers, AV suite (NIS), and applications up to date and do the occasional tune-up.  Hence since I tend to stay out of bad neighborhoods on the net (includes social networking sites), I rarely have the need for third party malware clean-up tools - unless it's cleaning up after some hapless friends and relatives who get infected with malware. (You know the type, the ones who never update their OS, and they still have Adobe Reader v.6 on their machines.)

 

4.  Norton start-up can be disabled, but I can't see why anyone would want to do it.  If it's that serious, then uninstall it completely and work from there I say.

 

5.  The ineffectiveness (as state it) of NIS to find malware..........in recent reviews from publications like PC World, I note with interest that no AV software in testing picked up 100 per cent of malware samples thrown at it.  Particularly noteworthy here is the reference to multiple realtime AV programs installed on the same machine.  If the customer referred to at the bottom of the thread is of the mind that if one AV suite is good, having several is better and between them all it will catch anything, the thinking is fundamentally flawed.  As already stated, multiple realtime AV programs on the same machine is a recipe for a whole lot of things that keep the Geek Squad at Best Buy (among others) in business.  The way I look at it, there is no vendor out there that can zero defect manage the malware world - a few people have to get hit with it before anyone even realizes something new is out there. 

 

How to disable Norton from Windows start-up is not a craftily guarded industry secret, and there's more than one way to do it.  I went offline and disabled NIS a couple years back because it seemed to be causing problems rendering video in Studio v. 10.  it was a workaround, but once Pinnacle put out the patch (for a range of issues) it was an unnecessary step.  But as I mentioned earlier, I've found no reason to disable it over the past several years.  If it's because of conflict with other AV and security software, then either remove it first or remove Norton entirely before installing others. 

 

To come full circle, my recommended solution is to pick one realtime AV program (or security suite), remove entirely any other programs, and stick with it. 

 

 

Norton is picking up CCleaner and HJT as malware.

 

My NIS2011 is quiore happy with both on board.  No false positives.

Hi Kassus,

 

You stated earlier:


On, MY system, I run 2 AV programs.  PIS(Panda) and AVG, and I have NEVER had any conflicts between the 2.  Also, I have seen other systems with several AV programs installed, and Norton is the FIrst that I have seen cause a problem when more than one AV program is installed.


You may not have been aware of a conflict but it does not mean there wasn't one. Sometimes multiple AV programs may seem to be working well together but they could well be conflicting at a level you may not even be aware of. Every AV program has it's own way of dealing with threats and all you don't need is two AV programs trying to deal with the same threat in different ways.

There is no doubt there are conflicts when trying to run more than one AV program with real-time protection.

Best wishes.

Allen

 2. The CONFLICTS caused by Norton when the user installs an AV program other than Norton.

  

The correct answer is you can install as many AV, malware, etc. programs as you desire. However, only one real time scanner should be enabled. If you use NIS 2011 autoprotect, then all the other real time program scanners should be turned off. This by the way the standard industry recommendation.

 

As far as firewall software, only one should be active at any given time although many can be installed. There are exceptions however to products that employ dynamic port monitoring such as the firewall in DefenseWall.

 

BTW - when I saw your post, I was surprised how long it took for the forum attack dogs to desend upon you. And their attacks have been restrained at that. This forum is as bad as the one for DefenseWall over at Wilders.

So, donziehm, you are saying(nicely of course) that these people are so thickheaded and brainwashed that they can't come to simple logical solutions?

 

To clear things up.  I have both AVG and PIS INSTALLED, however, PIS is the only realtime FIREWALL I am using and the realtime AV is disabled, AVG is the only Realtim AV that is active.

 


Kassus wrote:

So, donziehm, you are saying(nicely of course) that these people are so thickheaded and brainwashed that they can't come to simple logical solutions?

 

To clear things up.  I have both AVG and PIS INSTALLED, however, PIS is the only realtime FIREWALL I am using and the realtime AV is disabled, AVG is the only Realtim AV that is active.


 

Simple Logical and correct solution (as long as there was no Malware on clients PC as well, or other problems) Is to only have one AV like products above installed.

No one is being  thickheaded and brainwashed who are all giving the same answer.

 

Just turning off / Disabling one or more of the products leaving just one enabled won't work, as you still have registry entries for the services BHO's and others loaded and running even if the product at the systray states Disabled.

Anyone remember how users now and then appear having problem with Norton after installing, just because AVG, McAfee etc. has been uninstalled via the Add/Remove programs, but they have not used the corrosponding Removal Tool, so it means that leftover objects still exist causing problems?? 

 

Quads

 

So, donziehm, you are saying(nicely of course) that these people are so thickheaded and brainwashed that they can't come to simple logical solutions?:smileyvery-happy:

  

Without resorting to personal attacks, I will say that this forum is monitored and not open to stating what one's opinion is. It exists to show Symantec products in the best possible light and to remove or minimize any negative comments. That's what the attack dogs are for.

Hi donziehm,

 

I have been a member here for over two years and have never seen a post deleted or minimized due to anything other than misconduct, which involves violation of the Terms of Service.  I have seen outlandish opinions, horrible advice, hugely negative comments about Symantec and its products, and glowing reviews of competing products posted on these boards with no attempts by Symantec to censor any of this content.  You may disagree with the opinions expressed or tone of individual members' posts, but you should not infer that anything said by any member is in any way regulated or influenced by Symantec.  The statements made by members are their's and their's alone.

I think Donz did not mean about symantec employee but memebrs of the forum

 

 

@ Donz

 

 

If you did mean the members donz 

 

You are worng most of the members/Gurus are very friendly!

 


BanMidou wrote:

I think Donz did not mean about symantec employee but memebrs of the forum


I would fully agree with donziehm that some of the member's comments are not always as cordial as they ought to be.  That is a fair criticism, as I have suffered my share of outrageous insults, too.  I am only saying that in my experience I have not seen any monitoring of the forums for the purposes that donziehm mentions - by the members or the staff.

 

Sendofjive wrote

 

 


 

 

That is a fair criticism, as I have suffered my share of outrageous insults, too. 

 

 


 

 

 

 

Agreed 

 

 

I understand what you meant in your above post!( the one above this)

 

:smileyhappy:

 

 

Kelly,

 

May I say "Amen!"