Important NetBIOS vis-a-vis Windows 7-64HP Question(s)

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
1

Hi fellars,

 

First post, so please be gentle...

 

I've been using NIS since 2008 and I'm now using the 2011 edition. I like the program and have never had an issue with it. Nearly a year ago, I bought a new computer that came with a TrendMicro product that I really didn't like (far too simple and dumbed down), so I uninstalled it and went back to Norton. That was a few months after getting the new machine -- probably sometime in January or February, but I can't remember the exact date.

 

In June of this year, I began to experience occasional random crashes of various programs, including some games, IE, Adobe Flash, etc. All 39 crashes are related to the detested 0xc0000005 event, which is often related to faulty RAM, a bad driver, or a 3rd party firewall blocking local NetBIOS ports used by system services, causing them to crash.

 

My computer is running perfectly and is in excellent health, except for these random crashes every now and then (particularly with certain games).

 

In spite of that, I have done the following:

 

1) performed a Norton full scan
2) ran Memtest86 (10x/both sticks together)
3) ran Memtest86+ (10x/both sticks together)
4) ran the Windows RAM test (4X advanced mode/both sticks together)

5) ran the Windows disk scan in its slowest, most comprehensive mode

6) rebuilt the page file
7) increased the size of the page file (1:1.5, rather than 1:1)
8) used ReadyBoost
9) flashed/updated BIOS
10) checked the Realtek sound drivers (they are current)

11) cleaned the registry of any errors (I do this a few times a week)

12) defragmented the registry (I do this about twice a month)

13) defragmented the HD via SmartDefrag's deep mode (I do this two or three times a day)

14) cleaned the system via CCleaner's 35-pass Gutmann mode (I do this several times a day)

 

In spite of the success of all of these actions, the problem persists...

 

Things that still remain to be done are:

 

1) update the video card drivers (I'm about to perform this step)

2) update two or three other drivers

3) run Memtest86 (10x/single sticks)
4) run Memtest86+ (10x/single sticks)
5) run the Windows RAM test (4X advanced mode/single sticks)

6) run OCCT

7) run HD Tune Pro to check for errors

8) reset the NIS firewall

9) retire to a monastery

 

As mentioned earlier, I read in some hardcore tech forums that the cause of these 0xc0000005 events are "memory access violations that sometimes occur because a 3rd party firewall is blocking local NetBIOS ports, which then cause Vista/W7 system services to hang -- 'APPHANG'. When the service in question restarts, it usually hangs again, which then leads to a crash -- 'APPCRASH'."

 

The posters explaining the above (some of which are MS employees posting "off-duty") almost always recommend uninstalling NIS in order to avoid this serious problem. I really don't want to have to do that, so I must ask here if this is indeed an issue that has come up here, or at least if someone knows how to fix this problem (if it is indeed a correct assessment; I'm inclined to trust those because the posts were made by folks of high caliber and technical knowledge, however).

 

In sum, should I change something in the NIS firewall and/or the system?

 

My specs are:

 

Computer: ASUS K42JA

OS: W7-64HP

CPU: Intel i5 M460 @ 2.53GHz

RAM: 4GB (3.86 usable)

GPU: ATI Mobility Radeon 5730 2GB

Page File: 5.78GB (inside the OS partition)

ReadyBoost: 1.85GB

 

NIS is entirely default in my setup...

 

I'm looking forward to reading your posts!

2

Can anyone please answer my question?

3

Hi arcueil,

 

The Norton Smart Firewall should be automatically allowing all necessary port access requests for any legitmate program that you have installed.  I think it is highly unlikely that the firewall is causing the crashes.

4

Hello arcueil and welcome!

 

I apologize if I missed this, but I don't see any detail regarding the removal of the Trend Micro Product.

 

If you used only the native uninstaller, I would suggest running the Trend Micro utility to be sure you have removed all remnants of that program.

 

Let us know if that helps.

5

Thank you both for the responses.

 

The TrendMicro program was uninstalled using their utility. For good measure, I also used Revo Uninstaller Pro's "Forced Uninstall" to check for any debris. Everything is gone. This was in January or February.

 

NIS has been working perfectly since I installed it. My computer was likewise working perfectly until June 8th. Since then, I've had 39 random crashes related to the error listed above, and with various programs (but not NIS).

 

I've already done just about everything that I can think of regarding this problem. The only things that are left are the ones mentioned on my second list... but the jury is out until I complete those tasks. I'm expecting everything to be fine, however.

 

What really concerns me is that MS support and various moonlighting experts from the same company have been saying since at least 2008 that NIS's firewall can cause unwanted blocking of NetBIOS ports and this in turn can cause services needed by some applications to hang, thereby causing an application crash. The posts in the forums I read have very detailed logs, explanations and such. It all seems very credible and I'm worried that I may have to kiss my NIS subsciption goodbye and uninstall the program. I'd rather not have to do that.

 

I would like to hear what a Norton employee has to say, if possible. Ditto regarding additional views and suggestions from both of you and other posters. Thanx.

6

Hi fellars,

 

First post, so please be gentle...

 

I've been using NIS since 2008 and I'm now using the 2011 edition. I like the program and have never had an issue with it. Nearly a year ago, I bought a new computer that came with a TrendMicro product that I really didn't like (far too simple and dumbed down), so I uninstalled it and went back to Norton. That was a few months after getting the new machine -- probably sometime in January or February, but I can't remember the exact date.

 

In June of this year, I began to experience occasional random crashes of various programs, including some games, IE, Adobe Flash, etc. All 39 crashes are related to the detested 0xc0000005 event, which is often related to faulty RAM, a bad driver, or a 3rd party firewall blocking local NetBIOS ports used by system services, causing them to crash.

 

My computer is running perfectly and is in excellent health, except for these random crashes every now and then (particularly with certain games).

 

In spite of that, I have done the following:

 

1) performed a Norton full scan
2) ran Memtest86 (10x/both sticks together)
3) ran Memtest86+ (10x/both sticks together)
4) ran the Windows RAM test (4X advanced mode/both sticks together)

5) ran the Windows disk scan in its slowest, most comprehensive mode

6) rebuilt the page file
7) increased the size of the page file (1:1.5, rather than 1:1)
8) used ReadyBoost
9) flashed/updated BIOS
10) checked the Realtek sound drivers (they are current)

11) cleaned the registry of any errors (I do this a few times a week)

12) defragmented the registry (I do this about twice a month)

13) defragmented the HD via SmartDefrag's deep mode (I do this two or three times a day)

14) cleaned the system via CCleaner's 35-pass Gutmann mode (I do this several times a day)

 

In spite of the success of all of these actions, the problem persists...

 

Things that still remain to be done are:

 

1) update the video card drivers (I'm about to perform this step)

2) update two or three other drivers

3) run Memtest86 (10x/single sticks)
4) run Memtest86+ (10x/single sticks)
5) run the Windows RAM test (4X advanced mode/single sticks)

6) run OCCT

7) run HD Tune Pro to check for errors

8) reset the NIS firewall

9) retire to a monastery

 

As mentioned earlier, I read in some hardcore tech forums that the cause of these 0xc0000005 events are "memory access violations that sometimes occur because a 3rd party firewall is blocking local NetBIOS ports, which then cause Vista/W7 system services to hang -- 'APPHANG'. When the service in question restarts, it usually hangs again, which then leads to a crash -- 'APPCRASH'."

 

The posters explaining the above (some of which are MS employees posting "off-duty") almost always recommend uninstalling NIS in order to avoid this serious problem. I really don't want to have to do that, so I must ask here if this is indeed an issue that has come up here, or at least if someone knows how to fix this problem (if it is indeed a correct assessment; I'm inclined to trust those because the posts were made by folks of high caliber and technical knowledge, however).

 

In sum, should I change something in the NIS firewall and/or the system?

 

My specs are:

 

Computer: ASUS K42JA

OS: W7-64HP

CPU: Intel i5 M460 @ 2.53GHz

RAM: 4GB (3.86 usable)

GPU: ATI Mobility Radeon 5730 2GB

Page File: 5.78GB (inside the OS partition)

ReadyBoost: 1.85GB

 

NIS is entirely default in my setup...

 

I'm looking forward to reading your posts!

7

Hi arcuell,

 

You can set the firewall to its default configuration by going to Smart FIrewall > Advanced Settings > Reset.  Once the firewall is reset it would be extremely unlikely to cause any issues.  I have been hanging out here for a couple of years and have never seen any reports of  the NetBIOS rules causing any crashes.

 

What is the most recent post you have found on this issue?  2008 was quite awhile ago.

8

Although I've never had the need to modify the firewall, I'll go ahead and reset it. I was thinking about doing that anyway, so your suggestion reinforces that idea.

 

For threads regarding this issue, go to www.techsupportforum.com. If you search using the proper keywords, you'll find quite a few posts regarding this matter. After analysis of crash dumps, logs and such, the tech guys (MS guys, usually) tell the OP to toss NIS and go with the MS security softwares. This is not limited to NIS -- they also recommend the same action regarding other firewall alternatives. However, if one looks at those crash dumps and the explanations given, it all seems to make good sense. Granted, the threads I looked at were from 2008-09, but there may well be later ones. I just didn't feel too encouraged to read them all. Other websites, like SevenForums, contain similar threads as well.

 

BTW, I finally got to the graphics card drivers update, but that didn't fix the problem. I'm down to a handful of other things to try, test or update.

9

Bump... I guess I have to spell it out...

 

Can a Norton employee please let us know if NIS 2011 can interfere with NetBIOS ports (even if the firewall is set to default), causing service(s) problems, and thereby causing application crashes related to memory access violations?

10

I take the deafening silence as a resounding "Yes"...

11

I am not a Symantec employee but I don't think that you can divine an answer to your question based on the lack  of a response.  In its default settings the Norton firewall will not cause the sort of issue that you describe - if it did, almost all users would be having these problems because most users leave the firewall in its default configuration and use IE, Flash and other programs without difficulty.  Obviously, if this was a problem it would be a very big problem, and well documented.  I think the NetBIOS suggestion is mistaken, but if you are behind a router on a secure LAN, or physically disconnect from the internet, you could safely disable the Norton Firewall and see if the problem persists.

12

I understand what you mean, but the fact that I received no response whatsoever from Norton is strange, to say the least, especially since my question required only a "yes" or a "no", and since the forum I listed has some very high caliber MS people unequivocally telling people that have this problem to remove NIS altogether (they could have instructed people to reset the firewall, if that would fix the problem, but they didn't). If Norton's answer had been "no", then that would have been good. If it had been "yes", then that would have obliquely inspired confidence, although it would have required a workaround solution, or at least some technical explanation as to why that happens. I got neither. That's not the best way to deal with a customer of several years...

 

Anyway, I can't try what you said because all 39 crashes are related to programs that require the Internet. I already did everything listed on my first post, except testing each RAM stick individually and in more than one slot. If that comes back negative (as I'm expecting it to), and if I get another crash of the type mentioned in that first post, I'm afraid that I'll be forced to remove NIS.