http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/nsa-snooping/nsas-malware-methods-outed-latest-leak-n51176
This is all so blatantly illegal. How much longer are we going to allow this kind of thing? 
killyourtv wrote:This is all so blatantly illegal. How much longer are we going to allow this kind of thing?
Not really illegal. Besides, over 90% of Americans called for this while Georgie Porgie Bush was in office after the events of 9/11. Now, everyone is crying about it.
Oh, yeah, what about the 'META' data from cell phone carriers, who gives a toot... frankly idiots do and make a big case over nothing. These bandwagon pimples have no idea what meta data is and how it has nothing to do about invading your so-called privacies.
bose wrote:
killyourtv wrote:This is all so blatantly illegal. How much longer are we going to allow this kind of thing?
Not really illegal. Besides, over 90% of Americans called for this while Georgie Porgie Bush was in office after the events of 9/11. Now, everyone is crying about it.
Oh, yeah, what about the 'META' data from cell phone carriers, who gives a toot... frankly idiots do and make a big case over nothing. These bandwagon pimples have no idea what meta data is and how it has nothing to do about invading your so-called privacies.
With all due respect, hacking computers alone is illegal in most civilized countries, installing "malware" or worse, is just adding to the illegalities.
And again, with all due respect, meta-data, be it from phones or computers, can be as revealing - and sometimes moreso - than the content itself.
Just because a secret court, operating with secret rules and no oversight, claims that something is "legal" does not make it so.
killyourtv wrote:
bose wrote:
killyourtv wrote:This is all so blatantly illegal. How much longer are we going to allow this kind of thing?
Not really illegal. Besides, over 90% of Americans called for this while Georgie Porgie Bush was in office after the events of 9/11. Now, everyone is crying about it.
Oh, yeah, what about the 'META' data from cell phone carriers, who gives a toot... frankly idiots do and make a big case over nothing. These bandwagon pimples have no idea what meta data is and how it has nothing to do about invading your so-called privacies.
With all due respect, hacking computers alone is illegal in most civilized countries, installing "malware" or worse, is just adding to the illegalities.
And again, with all due respect, meta-data, be it from phones or computers, can be as revealing - and sometimes moreso - than the content itself.
Just because a secret court, operating with secret rules and no oversight, claims that something is "legal" does not make it so.
Never knew metadata could expose someones ss#. Obviously it cannot. Metadata does not entail personal detailed text messages or phone calls either. All it is, is: where (location, etc), when (time, etc), what (phone number, numbers, application used), etc... you cannot gather personal identifiable information from metadata other than what I just described. It is NOT illegal, however, it ought to be illegal for business and developers to develop their applications by (ie: Norton, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, etc -using it for tracking, mapping, all your *social* applications-). It is THEY who have no right to this information, despite the ToS and EULA clauses that you agree to everyday by allowing them to have this information. It is NOT illegal by government seeking to protect its country and foreign affairs. There is NOTHING illegal in that respect.
All these idiots out there dramatising what metadata really is, are nothing but retarded. People worried about the government sifting on to 1 in a billion metadata collections (just an example of billions *which, in fact, the media is totally SPINNING an example*) of some women "visiting," the location, child services or an abortion clinic or just "called," the number. Whomever complains about that.... really, get over yourself. It's just a timestamp, a location, NOTHING indentifiable about it in any way other than, oh hey, they called this place or visited this place, who gives a **bleep** it does not expose information as to WHY. Though, regular metadata from that particular location and number could result in more than one conclusion (they, family, or a friend request services), who gives a **bleep** and quit griping about stupid **bleep**. Unless, of course, you're a person of interest on the goverment wanted list and they're investigating the data. Quit whinning.
You do realize that Television, Radio, etc, have been collecting "metadata" since, CMIIAW, around the late 60's. This "metadata" was used to analyze how many viewers are participating in a particular broadcast, it displays information as to where (broadcast station), when (live-broadcast, re-broadcast), what (channel). It does not provide demographics, that's information you voluntariliy provide to your provider when you subscribe to the service, but only if that individual provided those details, though some of that data is also obtained by EMPLOYEEs of said company (larger networks) through census digging and cross matching with address (location), phone numbers etc, without your permission. Census information and property tax information is open to the public (IF you know how to obtain it), but ought to be illegal for business' to use. CNN, MSNBC, HBO, AMC, etc, all know who their consumers are, what broadcasts they are viewing, which broadcast is popular. They do this to provide their consumers a service, more or less (sometimes) without your expressed permission.
Americans really need to wake the fudge up.
I have nothing to hide, nor would I be ashamed of any of the metadata the government collects from my very very minimal usage of cell phones etc. Besides, the government gathering personal infomration of it's citizens is NOTHING new, the whinners out there either have something to hide or they're uneducated individuals (the majority) just jumping on the bandwagon, of those who began whinning about it in the first place.
In contrast to that, I guess you're an American and complain about having to pay taxes at B&M stores, so you resourt to online shopping to avoid those taxes on merchandise. Well, lets just say this... the longer the government fails to tax the retail web, the more taxes you'll pay for property, state/federal taxes, higher rates on educational loans and others, sooner or later you'll have no freshly paved roads to do your meandering, or even yet you won't receive state/federal benefits or grants. Oh, lets not forget those larges corporations that received Federal grants (Google, Microsoft, other small startups) from the government and never pay them back and you people nudge them off since it's not your concern, well it is your concern because it falls back on every civilian within the country.
If you read the story I linked above you will see it goes well beyond meta data.
"In others, it has sent out spam emails laced with the malware, which can be tailored to covertly record audio from a computer’s microphone and take snapshots with its webcam."
“When they deploy malware on systems,” Hypponen says, “they potentially create new vulnerabilities in these systems, making them more vulnerable for attacks by third parties.”
"One implant, codenamed UNITEDRAKE, can be used with a variety of “plug-ins” that enable the agency to gain total control of an infected computer."
"An implant plug-in named CAPTIVATEDAUDIENCE, for example, is used to take over a targeted computer’s microphone and record conversations taking place near the device. Another, GUMFISH, can covertly take over a computer’s webcam and snap photographs. FOGGYBOTTOM records logs of Internet browsing histories and collects login details and passwords used to access websites and email accounts. GROK is used to log keystrokes. And SALVAGERABBIT exfiltrates data from removable flash drives that connect to an infected computer."
"The implants can enable the NSA to circumvent privacy-enhancing encryption tools that are used to browse the Internet anonymously or scramble the contents of emails as they are being sent across networks. That’s because the NSA’s malware gives the agency unfettered access to a target’s computer before the user protects their communications with encryption."
Etc etc etc.
PS - I am not an American.
Yes, I read that. That's another FACT of MEDIA SPIN. The general population, obviously, are missing the point of these tactics. It is not to interfere with civilian life and was never intended for that purpose. It is in fact intended for persons of intersest.
The general population does not understand who a person of interst is. All they believe is what the media says and provide these business support by providing them viewership and causing more harm than good.
If the Government ended up analyzing the incorrect individual, **bleep** happens, that individual will end up whinning to the media, the media will spin the story with an endless trail of bullcrap to victimize the individual, where they were not really a victim at all, just some **bleep** happened cicumstance. Usually, the Government will exhonerate that individual of any wrong doing, but that individual will expect some type of compensation for so-called monetary damages. If the issue is serious enough, sure a compensation ought to be suitable, over and above exhoneration, but the GOV doesn't compensate for damages and shouldn't have to. The problem is with individuals with big mouths, running off to the media and making things worse than they actually are.
I agree that Governments ought to be more transparent and less secretive, but that's the entire point, so the people they're analyzing are not fully aware of what is going on. The GOV is doing its job, to protect its self interests and civilians, whether you like it or not. Tough luck.
Oh my goodness, bose. You don't work for NSA, GCHQ, or another of the "Five Eyes" do you? There are so many things that you've written here that I could take issue with, but Tech Outpost really isn't the place for debate on these subjects. I'm relatively sure I wouldn't change your mind, and I'm positive that you can't change mine, so I'll just make a final comment or two here.
First off, you've completely diverted us from the topic of the original post, and my comment on it. That post was about hacking computers, implanting "malware", etc., not about metadata from phones or email and the like. I stand by my original comment with regard to that activity. You are very much putting your own SPIN on the subject of metadata, as well, but you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Regarding privacy... The old "I have nothing to hide" argument? Really? That's probably the weakest argument possible. Do you have blinds or curtains at your residence? Why do you need them? You have nothing to hide. Will you show me your paycheck? Why not? You have nothing to hide. Will you give me the password to all your email accounts? Why not? You have nothing to hide. Or do you?
Valuing and wanting personal privacy does not equate to having "something to hide", nor does it make those who want that privacy "idiots", "retarded", or "whiners". Some of us simply do not want Government - or private entities - snooping, watching, listening, recording, collecting, collating, storing, and disseminating information and data about our personal lives. We want to be left alone! It's a simple as that.
And this: "The GOV is doing its job, to protect its self interests and civilians, whether you like it or not." Well, I'm virtually speechless. I don't know where you're from, but I certainly hope that you aren't an American making a statement like that.
If you are happy with the current state of affairs and the direction that the U.S. and the UK and others are going, then I suspect that you'll be one happy camper in the future. I am not, and I will resist it and speak out about it every step of the way.
You clearly miss the entire point and blinded by stupidity.
Does any one remember a couple of years ago the USA GOVT (or FBI, Homeland security etc) stating concerns over Huawei and spying etc??
Looks like it could have been the other way around instead http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html?ref=technology
Quads
Quads wrote:Does any one remember a couple of years ago the USA GOVT (or FBI, Homeland security etc) stating concerns over Huawei and spying etc??
Looks like it could have been the other way around instead http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html?ref=technology
Quads
Privacy? What privacy?!