Re: Norton 360 V2 backup issues

Archive
21

I cannot speak for bonmot, but I will jump in on this, because I had thought the thread had died, and it would be nice if there could be more clarity on this issue.

You ask for clarification on the problem(s), but the whole thread is devoted to descirptions and questions about apparent feature changes in v2 of Norton 360 that the thread contributors all regard as mostly horrible.

If you are looking for more clarity about the problem, please try looking over message 14 & 15 (my prior posts, I'm prejudiced) and also 16, which refers to additional problems and includes a link to another thread.

 

My vote would certainly be for a FIX to version 2 which would restore to us some of the advantage of v1, but I realize you probably can't do that.  But what you could do that would be very helpful, is create a post with some clarification on how v2 is different, which the next poor unsuspecting person to upgrade to v2 might have a chance of finding when they go googling for help.

I also would really like to understand the rationale for the changes, because I'm sure there is one, but the only one offered in this thread makes no sense to me.

Just some thoughts since you were kind enough to follow up.

 

22


Amazingly, I agree with everyone in this thread.  I have one more MAJOR PROBLEM: After spending 7 hours (no kidding - 7) with 8 separate technicians trying to help me "reset" my Backup (it had become out of wack, listing 250 GB of files to back up from a 230 GB hard drive), 360 2.0 was ultimately reinstalled.  Now, Backup only lists online storage.  I can't even experience the issues that were at first annoying to me.  Please, can someone help me?  The tech said someone was working on a patch, but I'm not sure how that would have happened in the first place - before the SW was reinstalled, Norton showed all of my drives.  Please help!  As a summary:

 

1) I need to be able to see all drives, not just online storage **FIX NEEDED ASAP - I CAN'T AFFORD 100 GB OF ONLINE STORAGE!**

2) I need to be able to backup by folder - I don't want to either back up all video files (or pics, or docs,etc.) or none.  Let me decide based on what folder they're in.

3) I need to be able to decide for myself whether I want my files to be mirrored (instead of encrypted)

 

I look forward to your reply.

23

p.s.  I have just discovered that sometime during one of the technicians’ “help,” my Office products/links got screwed up.  Now, every time I try to open an office document it says that the program (word, excel, etc.) is not installed.  I have browsed to it and can start it if I’m actually in the Office folder looking at the executable itself, but not otherwise.

24

p.p.s.  It’s not just Office.  It’s also itunes and a bunch of other programs.  Suffice it to say I am VERY disappointed with the quality of technicians being employed to “help” with Symantec’s products.  I never thought I’d go to McAfee, but I’m halfway out the door to go get it.

25

I just hope Symantec is paying attention to this line.  I didn't spend hours straightening things out.  I won't attempt to reinstall my V1.  Done that sort of thing before and find you can open a bigger can of worms than I care to handle.  Got over my frustration by coming up with a solution for me.  Hopefully this verrsion still does a Norton quality job on any viruses and such attempting to destroy my computer.  Hopefully if my computer crashes I will be able to reinstall everything from the backup I trust V2 is making.  For this year I am doing a daily "drag and drop" of the folders I need to both protect and be able to access readily and pass on to others.  In the meantime I'lm doing research on other virus scanners which might be more suitable for me next year -- in case Symantec doesn't come up with a version that fits my virus dection/backup needs.

 

I still can't find anything in the manual or advertising for V2 that tells you about these changes.  Poor marketing unless you wanted to sell all you can this year and don't care about unhappy customers and massive loss of sales next year.   I purchased mine from Circuit City and added a comment to be sure to check out the changes before you buy this product.

 

Marlene

26

I just thought that I would chime in to this post again.  As per my prior messages, I wasted a great deal of time trying to fix this unexpected problem with backups in V2.  My experience with your online help was totally worthless.  I consider myself fortunate that the suggestions and workings of you online help people didn't screw up my computer as has happened with others who have posted messages here.

 

I love Norton 360 and I like V2 except for the backup situation.  My solution is to backup my favorites to the online repository - this way N360 doesn't yell at me for not doing a backup.  I have found a free backup program on the web - Comodo Backup - and I am using this program to backup my files and directories in the same manner that worked in N360 V1.  I now have access to all of my files and directories on my external backup drive, in their native format.  I easily can verify that the backup has occurred correctly and I can browse through files and view their contents without problem.  I will resume using N360 for my backup when Norton fixes this dreadful feature.  Meanwhile, I like all of the other features of N360 - they work seamlessly and in the background on both my Vista and Windows XP computers.

27

Latest update: discovered the tech actually CHANGED MY REGISTRY while trying to figure out why 360 wan't reinstalling.  Now when I reboot I'm in an infinite "installing" loop for a bunch of the programs listed above (none of which ultimately installed).  I am now having to mannually copy all of my files over to my external drive (as I mentioned - the backup was corrupted and ultimately deleted).  After that, I have the pleasure of completely reinstalling the OS and all of the other programs. 

 

Horribly disappointed.

28

Ok so I posted yesterday and it is not on this board is this how Norton is going to be taking care of problems??? I ask for information on a fix or some thing to straighten this out and I get nothing. Maybe we are to small to be a worry to the system so we get no help. I have 23 people in my group who have Norton that’s a fair sized bunch do you want us to go away I am almost ready right now. After tech support messed with my computer with some remote software from a man in India or some other country and nothing was fixed but my security I feel was compromised by some of the actions taken. He installed software from http://gearsoftware.com/ a driver for my CD Rom DVD which I was worried about since it is a sensitive Toshiba 802 drive when messed with it can stop working for good. So when you have a $3000 + system you get a bit edge when people mess with it and then say sorry I did nothing try another tech have always felt Norton was a solid company but that kind of support makes me think again. Does Norton have senior tech people maybe you need another job in the mail room if you are letting people on your watch do things like that. Pissed off is putting it lightly I for one am really tired of software rip offs I have spent several hundred dollars in recent years on software that does not do what it is billed to do. Norton 360 is it really working for me? Or do you want me to do another upgrade…Please fix this you guys wrote the program. Backup should be a no brainer.

29

How to get my money back? I want to return this product because of this back up issue and their poor tech support. I think everybody needs to fight for that or at least a 50% of discount!

30
bonmot wrote:

How to get my money back? I want to return this product because of this back up issue and their poor tech support. I think everybody needs to fight for that or at least a 50% of discount!

 

I for one would be very much against you getting your money back. Moreover, by implication I am against any discount on future or other existing product.

 

The reason is that you have only said that you have the same problem whereas some earlier posters in this thread have sought to identify specific problems. What actual problem you have remains a mystery. Moreover, a Symantec employee has specifically responded to you and asked for additional information, to which your response is that you want your money back.

 

In conclusion one does not know what problem you have, you failed to provide details, you had one hour of technical support about which you have supplied no details yet feel you are entitled to refund.

1 Like
31
Jakster wrote:
Ok so I posted yesterday and it is not on this board is this how Norton is going to be taking care of problems?????


Here is your thread you were looking for: http://community.norton.com/norton/board/message?board.id=Norton_360&message.id=3826#M3826

 

looks like you found it already, because you marked the next post in the thread as a solution, but didn't answer the questions that were asked there. 

32

Relay to cgoldman

 

The problem is very simple: 360 V2 just cannot only backup the folder I want.

for example: I have a folder C:\Projects. In this folder I have source code, JPG files, DOC file, etc...

After I selected C:\Projects to backup, 360 V2 selected all "pictures" and "office files" from the folders it detected.

 

I asked the tech support to try it first before telling me to do "turn off the screen saver" etc... (he/she will think it is very creative!)

But the response was dissappointing, just repeat the same thing again and again. basically repeating different ways to "add a folder" in the "back up settings". But IT DOES NOT WORK.

 

I don't want to open up histry to track down you have said and what I have said. I decribe the problem above. Now you stand up and resolve the problem you way and thank you.

Message Edited by bonmot on 08-31-2008 11:29 AM
33

Well I have to agree with the comments I've been reading here ... the "NEW" backup is bogus. So as you might have guessed I think this new encryption standard is crap. The whole reason I bought Norton 360 (again) was because of the simple backup utility. At the very least it should be an option. I can certainly understand "some" having a specific need for it but I can't imagine it making up the majority.

 

Plus .... I agree with other posters it's not much security if all you need is another copy of 360 to open the files. Besides, most would encrypt the files themselves on the CPU which would follow through to the backup if they were really concerned about security. That way both the source file and the backup would be fully protected (if needed). In addition, encryption software and backup software should be somewhat segragated as combining them would cause all sorts of specific issues (file sharing w/ back up drives, etc..).  Why don't you offer the the encryption option up as an additional inc. modual? It only seems logical to me if the backup requires encryption the source file shouldn't be treated any different.

 

I still can't believe you guys released this rev. with no thought to having encryption as a backup OPTION.

 

Since I still have the disks from version 1;

Can I uninstall Ver 2, replace it with Ver 1 while not having my updates for virus's / subscription status affected?

Can I expect any poor reactions on my XP pro box or Vista 64 box when I downgrade?

Message Edited by y091918 on 09-03-2008 03:42 PM
Message Edited by y091918 on 09-03-2008 03:49 PM
1 Like
34

Hello all.  As a new user of the forum I have been helped greatly by the input from you N360 warriors, both users and Symantec staff.  I've encountered the next-to-last straw, but feel I may have something to contribute.  Please bear with me as I spout off ;->

 

Prior to using N360 v.2, I was a longtime, very satisfied Symantec customer who had few and easily-resolved issues.  Well, not any more!!  The problems with backup--all those mentioned in this discussion and more--are just part of the mess; the other issues don't belong in this topic.

 

Here's a backup solution: get a copy of Norton Save & Restore v.2--it's compatible with N360 so you can keep using that for other functions.  NS&R is easy to use, fast, highly configurable and reliable.  You can run a whole-drive backup or just certain files, select from 4 compression levels, quickly and easily restore a whole drive or just one file or folder; the app saves the files changed by the restoration and offers them to you to browse, assuring that you have the version(s) you want; etc., etc.  Backups can be scheduled or run manually and do not hog system resources as N360 does.  It's a beautiful thing!  Backup your "NS&R backup file" to N360's online storage.  Well, if you can--see below.

 

After three months of struggle with N360, I decided to reinstall NS&R v.2, run a high-compression whole-drive backup and use N360 as described above, the online storage being the main reason I bought N360 rather than upgrading to the new versions of SystemWorks and Personal Firewall, etc.  Now I find that, because tech support had me uninstall and reinstall N360, I can't access the previously uploaded N360 backups to delete them so I can upload my new large backup file.  (This issue is covered in another discussion, so I'll search for that solution.) 

 

While I understand about proprietary encryption of N360 backups and figure this is also part of Symantec's security for the online storage, I cannot understand why N360 backup was not designed with the speed, options and ease of function that NS&R has.  The only things NS&R doesn't have are the online storage and the idle scan/backup function.  Maybe there were architectural reasons why NP&F wasn't merged with N360 as GoBack and NAV were with SystemWorks, but geez guys!  Even if N360 was designed for those who don't want to think about what to back up and what to exclude--"just let Norton do it, set it and forget it" (this is by no means intended as a slam at those folks, who are most of the computer users in the world!), and/or who don't use their computers for resource-intensive apps, something is amiss.  From the plaintive wails in the N360 forum, it seems a lot of users are stymied and, like me, can't set it so they can forget it.  :-> 

 

Thanks for your patience with this rant, and apologies for its lengthiness.  And many thanks to you gurus and other users who put so much into helping!

35

You are quite correct and I have raised this “bug” with the Symantec team and other gurus. I cannot say how or when it will be addressed.

36

Hi terrafax,

 

Thanks for your well thought out and well articulated feedback. As I'm sure you can see, a number of people from the N360 team read and respond to these forums so your feedback is appreciated and readily accepted as we move forward with N360 development.

 

I realize (having read these boards) that the N360 method of backup has been the cause of some frustration for a number of customers. As with any application, a backup solution is always going to be a series of tradeoffs, including all of the gray area in between: high compression (disk space) vs no compression (speed, availability), encryption (security) vs no encryption (speed, availability), incremental backups (small backup footprint on subsequent backups) vs whole file backups (speed), etc; N360's backup features only (currently) cater to a specific set of requirements. I have not seen what the future of N360 will look like but I work on the backup engine so I can speak a little bit to the specific backup needs which we attempted to address with N360 backup.

 

The backup engine used by N360 was originally designed to meet the needs of online backup: high compression, high security, and a high granularity binary incremental backup. These features allow us to keep the backed up data trimmed down to a minimum (for a faster upload to the file server). On the first backup, our performance and maybe disk usage would be worse than a client who was designed for individual backups because of some of these differences. Over a period of time, though, a system backed up using the N360 backup engine will consume less space and will maintain a high level of security, both for online backups but also for local backups. Due to the proprietary backup methods, of course, a N360 client is required to extract the data in both cases.

 

I (and I'm sure everyone else who reads these forums) realize that not everybody wants this particular set of features. I hope that by understanding the underlying mechanism a bit better you can at least appreciate the goals which we have attempted to meet and the length to which we have gone to meet these goals. I wish I had a way to please everybody but I can only reitterate that the development team does read these forums and is aware of all of the feedback which is left here.

 

To address your specific concern about deleting "other" data in N360, feel free to send me an email (my address is in my profile). As a member of the backup engine back end team I am able to assist with the purging of data from your account.

 

~scott 

1 Like
37

Thanks for your responses, CGoldman and Scott.  Although I'm a former system designer and user-needs analyst, that was eons ago in computer time, so wrestling with N360 has made me wonder if I've become an idiot or just too perfectionistic as a user.  Finding these discussions was a great comfort, although saddening to read some of the posts with angry flames, because I know the development teams work hard to create a good product. 

 

Am trying to decide if the smart move would be to "return" N360 and upgrade my former installation of NSW, NPF, etc., to the current version.  But I hate to give up...  And there are several things I really like such as backed-up files are marked, built-in password manager (!) and most of all, secure storage so I don't have to go to the bank box down the road every day to swap backup drives.

 

Scott, your info re design intent of N360 is appreciated and confirms what I sorta inferred.  My main quibble has been with the Manage Backup process in which the app scans the whole of one's (huge) hard drives for files to back up and for whatever reason takes a looong time (am looking at the possibility of non-Norton causes for time factor).  In the meantime, I plan to avail myself of the Norton PC PowerBoost offer received a while back then try N360 backup again.  I shall take you up on your kind offer of help purging my old data before doing that.

Message Edited by terrafax on 09-04-2008 11:08 AM
38

I have 3 Windows machines that I use daily here at work; all 3 of them have N360 (Vista + v1, XP + v1, XP + v2). I use most of the N360 features (including online backup) on a daily basis and I am extremely pleased with the result. On my personal machine at home I use NIS because I feel it more closely suits my needs at home. Point being, both N360 and NIS are awesome products that perhaps address the needs of slightly different users. N360 really is a great single solution for AV, firewall, backup, etc etc etc ... If, on the other hand, you have specific needs that you feel N360 may not address, it may be best to combine a couple of products to get the desired result (as you've indicated).

 

The backup scanning time is something that was raised as a concern with v1 and that's something that we have worked hard (and continue to work hard) to address. In v1 we actually had to do 2 passes over the file system during the backup process: once to identify files you want to backup, and once to actually back the files up (necessary due to some design constraints at the time). This was obviously unacceptable. In v2 we were able to redesign the entire scanning process and condense it down to a single disk scan. The difference is (of course) very noticable.

 

One thing to keep in mind with regards to disk scanning: the online backup feature is really designed as a "set it and forget it" backup. You tell N360 which file types you want to back up, and they are automagically backed up to the online backup servers when your computer is idle. If you open up the Manage Backup pane, you can manage your settings as the file scan runs in the background; Once you have selected the files you want to back up, you simply save the settings and go about your business. Your file scan will complete as system resources are available and your files will be backed up. Caveat: the file counts for each category (in the Manage Backup pane) may not necessarily be correct until the file scan is complete; That can be somewhat confusing but it is a compromise that we have made in order to keep the system performance impact to a minimum.

 

When you actively run your backup then I think the file scan is unavoidable (in the general sense) because part of the N360 backup feature is a backup by file type so your entire system has to be scanned for those files. Some backup solutions target only a particular file selection so of course they would only scan the files in question; N360 lets you select files by type (so you don't miss that important Document you forgot you saved to your Desktop) but once again our tradeoff is thoroughness vs time.

 

Thanks again for your feedback. Let us know if there's anything else we can help out with. :-)

 

~scott 

39

Hi Scott,

Good to see you here.

 

Understood the "file type" idea. But help me here:

I have 1G JPG files in my harddrive, which I don't want to backup to the online storage, and I have a folder c:\abc which I want to backup to the online storage but has a few JPG files in it.

If I selected this c:\abc folder in the "other files", Norton will include the 1G automatically!

 

What do I do.

40

Hi bonmot,

 

I work on the back end so my knowledge comes from my time spent using N360 and the forums but my understanding is this: what you described is a design oversight (I don't know if I'd call it a bug since I think it was intentional) in v2. Basically the selection of the folder with a particular set of files causes the category to be selected.

 

In order to get around it you basically have to do the opposite: instead of unselecting the type and selecting a folder, instead you would select the type, and then mark folders that you don't want to be backed up as excluded.

 

Say you have a bunch of pictures in C:\foo and a bunch more in C:\bar. You want to back up the pics in foo but not in bar. So you select the pictures category in your Manage Backup window, then go into windows explorer, right click on the folder "bar" and find Norton 360 -> Exclude from backup in the context menu.

 

Please consider this advice in the context it is given: as an educated user rather than a developer. I know that this particular issue has been looked at and acknowledged by people who work on the front end which is where the file scanning takes place.

 

Feel free to keep posting suggestions and questions and hopefully myself or someone else can help find a solution.

 

~scott