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Your not alone. I just did the same thing and upgraded last night to find myself with a nightmare. I never had anyy issues with Norton 2008.
My computer now boots up and then freezes upon start up when it is trying to open the new Norton 2009 upgrade. I can't get it to close either. I can't get on line to diagnose anything because it total freezes upon opening. I have tried a hard shut down and reboot several times and continue to just freeze upon start up.
Hey techs we need help, there is a major problem with the upgrade. I can't even use my computer at home because of it. Let me know if we can do something on the very start up to get rid of the program or correct it. My computer is totally unusable right now. I'm borrowing a friends to even get to this point.
<< I have tried going to SP3 but it causes my system to go idle, then NAV kicks in and freezes my system. >>
Did you first check for conflicts between installing SP3 and some systems -- eg some HP computers where apparently they used an INTEL image on AMD systems.
If something is telling you that you cannot install SP3 I'd look for solutions to that problem first.
Hang on for some specific replies on this situation.
I have flagged other messages about this for a Norton Staffer to come in on.
Are you by any chance also using XP with SP2 because SP3 won't install?
Kevin, I can't be sure, but it seems like the biggest problem in your system at the moment is ... impatience.
I am going to talk about the issues in reverse order.
Installing SP3 can take over an hour. And I am not counting download time. I just installed SP3 on a client's system last night, and it was for three facts (I had a good book, she makes good cookies and conversation, and I was also tuning up her second computer), I would have been bored to death for the 90-plus minutes it took.
Now, there are moments during that installation when it looked as though the installation was frozen. Had I given in to my impatience, I might have started other processes in the background. That would have been a big mistake! You never, ever want to interrupt a healthy installation in the middle of its process. For SP3, there are a couple of initial questions asked and you want to be there to answer them and to give the okay to proceed. After that, go watch a good movie or something.
Now to NAV2009 and NIS2009. It is a quirk of both these products that your computer slows down a fair number of times after the initial installation. Even though Symantec seems edgy about admitting this, something about the intial getting familiar with your files process seems to use a lot of MS resources and everything slows down. But do not confuse a freeze with a slow down. A freeze is a freeze is a freeze. Once a computer freezes, you could go away for twenty years, come back, and your computer will be in exactly the same state (except for the film of dust that will be covering it). A slow down is not the same. If you leave a slow down long enough, other things will happen, things will change.
Initially, I fought the slow down on my computer, only to have the computer fight back. So I just let it do its thing. The slow down does't last that long and it doesn't continue through the day; so I could live with it even if I didn't like it. After a couple of days, there was no more slow down. Now I seem to experience a 3 to 5 minutes slow down once a week (and that shortly after bootup or waking from standby) -- small change compared to the overall speed all.
However, trying to cure the "problem" by interrupting the process, changing the settings, uninstalling and reinstalling, seems to accomplish nothing other than delaying the inevitable. In fact, it can exacerbate the issue by actually changing something that shouldn't be changed. And frequently something is "fixed" by in reality breaking it.
So I suggest patience. Wait this out and see what happens. With both SP3 and Norton.
To answer HUWYNGR 1st question:
"Did you first check for conflicts between installing SP3 and some systems -- eg some HP computers where apparently they used an INTEL image on AMD systems"
No, did not because I was having issue this issue WITHOUT having installed SP3. SP3 is still not installed on my computer. I thought it may help if I installed SP3. But the installation does not complete because my systems freezes. It was freezing BEFORE this attempt and is still freezing WITHOUT the SP3 installed.
To answer HUWYNGR 2nd question:
If something is telling you that you cannot install SP3 I'd look for solutions to that problem first.
No, the system freezes and nothing can occur. Task Manager will not come up most of the time but sometimes comes up after 5-10 minutes. Most clicks do nothing or take 5-10 minutes to show up.
HUWYNGR thank you for your help. I do appreciated it. SP3 is not the issue because this was happening for days before I tried the install of SP3.
To answer Mijcars comments and questions
Impatience is not my problem. The system was freezing/slowing BEFORE any attempt to install SP3. It NEVER froze before installing NAV2009 but started immediately after installing NAV2009. I thought SP3 might help fix the issue so I started the install and let it run OVERNIGHT. It never completed because the system was frozen. I am impatient now that it takes 10 minutes to have a window popup (if it ever does).
I realize some installs take several hours to run. I know what freezing and slowness are. Sometimes the computer FREEZES meaning NOTHING happens after waiting 20 years (I waited several hours and this is NOT with the SP3 install happening. That is a FREEZE in my book). I also realize that sometimes things are slow. 5-10 minute click wait times are unacceptable (even when the SP3 was not installing). This happens to me after ANY idle time. This was occurring BEFORE I ever attempted to install SP3. Which I did not do till many hours trying to figure out the issue. I never tried uninstalling NAV.
I am a computer programmer with over 16 years experience so this is not my first rodeo. Listen, I make a living on this computer. I am not waiting several weeks or days for NAV to "figure out" my files or my system. Nor will I out up with the 5-10 minute freezes/slowness SEVERAL times a day. I did not have this issue with NAV 2008, NAV 2004 or your competitor’s products. I spent many hours reading about this issue and several people are reporting this. This is a bug.
I am little offended by your response and am shocked that it comes from a tech support person. Yes, my patience is wearing thin now that I have spent 10 hours trying to find out the cause of this bug. I am also loosing patience that I am losing money because of this. I am also loosing patience within 10 minutes for my computer to come back from every idle. So yes you are right I am loosing patience for this product. I was happy with 2008 and 2009 looks great. But if this is the type of comments Norton gives to their users I am not sure I will renew my license.
Cordially,
Kevin
huwyngr is not a Symantec employee, just a volunteer mod as I see it.
The problem with your issue is that it is not universal. I have installed NIS 2009 on two different (laptop and desktop, Proffesional and Home) computers running XP SP3 and nothing of that sort as you are describing occurs.
You could maybe try this; uninstall NAV 2009, fully. Then, install SP3. After that, reinstall NAV 2009.
Please let us keep our cools.
<< I am little offended by your response and am shocked that it comes from a tech support person. .... But if this is the type of comments Norton gives to their users I am not sure I will renew my license. >>
There is absolutely no reason to be offended and mjcar (and I) are both volunteers -- users just like you who try to help other users. If you see a name in red then you have a Staff member who is an employee. But even if you do not like what any of us say there is no need to be offended.
I'm not offended when you (and others have done it too) announce how skilled they are; how much background they have in computing. I just laugh to myself and ask why they need help! <s> And I remember the old saying about how "A bad workman blames his tools"
So let's cool down and if you do want some help let's try again.
Huwyngr was being helpful. I had a issue with mijcars wording of his/her response. But that is water under the bridge.
I agree this is definatly not a universal issue. But many people are experiencing it. See the second post on this thread as an example. There are others on the forum as well. Sometimes it has to do with other conflicting security software. Which I do not have.
So you are thinking this is a NAV install issue? I thought maybe the same. Does someone have the instructions (or link to them) that show how to do this properly. I want to make sure I do every step properly so I do no miss anything. I am coming from NAV 2008. How do I go about getting my existing KEY if I can not find it? Can I do a direct install of 2009 or do I have have to install 2008 and then upgrade?
I will try the reinstall when I get home and let you know the results.
Thanks
Kevin
SP3 is a very small service pack unlike SP2. I have had SP3 since it came out with no troubles. Now I am running NIS 2009 with no troubles. It is not a SP3 problem. if you pat attention to other posts people are getting pop ups from Symantec telling them to upgrade to NIS\NAV 2009 for free. When you download and install NIS\NAV 2009 is does an auto uninstall of NIS\NAV 2008 and then installs 2009. I believe 2008 isnt being unisntalled completely. I myself never to over the top installs. Its always best to uninstall your old version and install the latest version. If the user cannot install SP3 then that is a different issue and needs to be addressed. Please try using the Norton Removal Tool and getting rid of all traces of Norton. Then install NAV 2009. I have installed SP3 on 10 machines with no errors. I have installed NIS 2009 on 10 machines with no errors. Are you running any other security products?
If your NIS 08 is up to date, it should leave its subscription data right where NIS 2009 expects it to be, and you shouldn’t have any problems upgrading.
My comments about impatience may have been wrong given your extremely patient response to what I wrote. But you do seem to have misread it despite that patience.
Among the possibilities I was alluding to was that you might have done something during the intial install of SP3 because you thought it wasn't installing and that whatever you did crashed the install but left signature debris (artifacts) that keeps SP3 from installing ever again. Likewise, with the installation of NIS2009 or the initial running of the software.
I have been programming and/or working with computers since I created real-time software for monitoring missile flights at White Sands Missile Range a long, long time ago. I am not an engineer, but I do have an advanced degree in theoretical mathematics. I don't think that makes me perfect or even close to it. I make mistakes, learn from them, and try to help others as I am able to.
It may appear to you that a lot of people are suffering from the same issues as you are. That is hardly likely. These boards are essentially places for people having problems. The number of people with similar issues number less than a couple of dozen. The number not posting because they don't have those unresolved issues are probably in the thousands by now, maybe even the tens of thousands.
By now, I have installed both SP1, SP3 and NIS2009 on a lot of machines (especially the former). Not one -- not a single one -- has had a problem. These are machines for clients and run the gamut of setups.
I don't know what is happening with your machine; I sure would like to help; but that means asking a lot of questions, making a lot of suggestions, trying different things -- internet brainstorming. We have managed to find some solutions, and the Symantec staff themselves monitor, contribute to, and offer solutions as they find them on these boards.
It's late, my wife is p.o.'ed at me for staying up here helping people who are strangers to me. So I am going to bed, and maybe some new ideas with come to me overnight.
Sorry if I stepped on your toes.
No problem mijar. I understand. Sorry.
So last night I removed all traces of NAV with the removal tool. I ran a registry clearer also which removed some NAV that were lingering. I think installed XP SP3. The install proceeded with flying colors. No slow downs. The install took about 20 minutes. Previously when I tried it with NAV 2009 installed the process never completed when I left if alone for 8 hours.
Without any NAV installed I played with the computer for about 1 hour. I also left it idle many times. No issues. No slowdowns.
Then I installed NAV 2009. The install went fine. I preformed a LiveUpdate. The proceeded to install some Windows Security updates. I left than run for about 2 minutes to make sure everything we going smoothly. 10 out of 13 installs were completed. Then I went to bed. When I woke up this morning it was still stuck on 11 of 13 installs and the computer was REALLY SLOW. I would perform only 1 click and waited to see how long it would take. The screen repaint took almost 3-5 minutes. So I moved the mouse a few times and click on a window to stop the computer from being idle. Went a did the morning tasks for about 3 minutes came back and the computer was still REALLY slow (like 2-4 minute click times). It does not get out of this mode and the CPU is spiked at 100%.
This does not appear to be a XP SP3 install issue. I do not believe it to be a Windows update issue also because this will happen with IE or Firefox when left idle.
This morning I rebooted the computer and did nothing but open up IE. I am going to check when I get home from work if the system is in its idle slow mode. I also turned off Pulse Updates to see if that maybe the issue.
I can almost guarantee that if I install NAV 2008 it will work perfectly fine. I have no issues with 2008 or when no NAV was installed. Just when the 2009 is installed. I really believe it has something to do with the idle scanning.
I am keeping at this so maybe we can find the issue and others will benefit from it.
These post may be having similar issues:
http://community.norton.com/norton/board/message?board.id=nis_feedback&thread.id=12962
Thanks
Kevin
I've also been experiencing a similar problem with NAV2009 on a system that was working fine with NAV2008. I've found that the MS Indexing Service was running at 100% (cisvc.exe). After disabling it in the Services the problem stops. I've been surfing for a possibility of there being an issue with NAV2009, but have not found anything yet. I have however found quite a few problems relating to the Indexing Service. This is happeing on 2 of my customers and they are both running totally different PC.
It would be interesting to find out if you also have the cisvc.exe consuming 100% proc. in the Taskmanager, but be warned, I've had to wait 10 minutes for the TaskMan to open. CTRL,ALT,DEL once and leave it till the TaskMan appears.
Regards
Kevin, thanks for all the information (and hard work). And congrats on getting your SP3.
I think you are right that NIS2009 is involved. My feeling over time has been that NIS2009 is not the causative agent, but the catalyst for something that is already in place.
If you notice any of my other posts, you will see that I have a been issue with artifacts, junk left on the harddrive or in the registry by other programs that were uninstalled and are no longer in use.
[Just for a single example, the insecure version of Adobe's Flashplayer installed with a lock on the registry entry. The lock keeps the consumer from removing the entry, regardless of the consumer's status (user, administrator, etc). Unfortunately, it also seemed to keep the uninstaller from removing the entry, too. And there it remains, two years later and heaven knows how many builds later, still triggering registry warnings from various cleaners. Adobe itself has acknowledged the problem, but no longer even tries to offer a solution. At least, this problem is only one small glitch in the registry that doesn't actually produce any problems ... yet.]
My thought is that most of us have these artifacts on our computers and that some of our socalled new computers actually arrive with these artifacts in place because the harddrives were burned with a prepared image. The original image may have included drivers that are no longer considered secure; half-loaded security programs waiting for the user to click on, neither completely installed nor uninstalled, registration links that deadend because that business no longer exists, and so on, and even the possible hidden malware that wasn't recognized as such when the original image was burned. Most of these are probably harmless, can be found and dealt with, but some are an accident waiting to happen. And a new product using different system strategies might collide with one of these artifacts with devastating effect.
Likewise, there are hundreds, thousands, of sloppily coded programs out there, most from wannabe software engineers but much from well-established corporations that simply rushed to market a little too fast (and Norton has been among them). They passed the in-house alpha-testing and some kind of beta-testing (hey, Sis, try out my new game) and when that didn't seem to have any problems, out it went to the paying public. The problem is that there is an improper link in the registry or some piece of software is evoked incorrectly or something is not removed from the CPU when the software is closed or it uses the same file name as an established piece of software or it doesn't declare something about itself.
And then Norton comes along.
Boom.
Now, I bet you know all this, but I needed to have my little rant, because this is really starting to bug me. Too many companies are working on the next product instead of fixing the present one and too many know-nothings are dropping their creations into the pot and messing up the whole stew. But I also mentioned this because I hoped to stimulate some ideas on your part. I'm not there with your computer, but you are; and you might just suddenly have an idea about something that with your expertise could solve this problem. Which would be wonderful for you and for us.
Meanwhile, I will keep thinking.
Good luck
At this point, Kevin, as you seem to be a technologically savy person, you should download and familiarize yourself with Process Explorer from Sysinternals.
Using this excellent tool, you should look into your running processes, find out which one is the culprit for that lag you are experiencing, and then take a closer look into that process and see which thread is causing it.
Better then that use AnVir Task Manager. Its gives a million more times the info.
The indexing services is interesting. I will try that. I have had simular issue with it before and other applications.
I will also load Process Explorer and see if I can find the issue.
I will let you know what I find. I will fix this darn issue.
Kevin
OK So far no issues. I have a good feeling it was Indexing Services like someone suggested. I have had issues with it on other computers before (not related to NAV). I have a feeling Indexing Service and NAV both started when the computer was idle and they stressed the system to much. Indexing Services is worthless anyway so I disabled it along with some other useless services (these services shound not have any relation to the issue). I also ran a NAV quick scan (which also should not be related). I'd put money on Indexing Services (its a piece of junk and I thought it was already disabled on this machine or I would have done it earlier).
If the issue starts again I will let you know. But some of you having this extreme slowness you may want to try disabling indexing sevices. But first make sure you are not running other security apps first. That seems like the most common issue.
Thank you everyone for your help. If the issue starts again I will let you know. Sorry for the laziness issue from earlier ;-) BTW I do agree with you about companies rushing out bad software. I have worked for many of them. Like my old boss said I should be thankful. When I create a bug someone losses minor productivity or money. If I was working on medical equipment, my bug would have killed someone.
Thanks
Kevin
BTW I do agree with you about companies rushing out bad software. I have worked for many of them. Like my old boss said I should be thankful. When I create a bug someone losses minor productivity or money. If I was working on medical equipment, my bug would have killed someone.
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Of course, you know that a lot of contemporary medical equipment and practice is software driven -- including the new robotic surgery. And that the software is often on nothing more than a PC ...