Trust in Norton 360 Destroys Me.....My Review

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
1

Just wanted to let you know I will never buy your software again. I just found out that because I did nor renew my subscription that you completely turned off all protection and as a result I lost thousands of dollars in time and data from an old virus.

 

I guess I can blame myself for not paying closer attention, but for 20 years I have been used to anti-virus software working after update expiration (minus new updates). I truly was not aware that you left me completely unprotected because I did not send you more money quick enough. It costs you nothing, absolutely ZERO to keep an old version working. I feel completely screwed over by you. 

 

Keep in mind, I own my own software company, so please don't say I don't understand. 

 

You have made a short-sited decision to force immediate upgrades at the expense of your long term customer loyalty and satisfaction and TRUST in you! 

 

Once again, I have purchased your products and updates for years. However, at this point you will NEVER get another cent of my money. 

 

I posted a Facebook post explaining how you left my out to dry, I hope it goes viral. Have a great day, may someone let you down when you least suspect it and most need them. 

 

Super smart guys there at the firm...

 

Dean Hoffman

Ex-Customer

2

Hi DeanHoffman,

 

After reading your facebook post it sounds like you were hit by some " ransomeware" .

 

Just curious - who is holding your system hostage?

3

Dean,

 

I'm sorry about your experience. It's a warning to all users.

 

You say you have been using Norton for years .... What you have unfortunately experienced has been like this for quite some time; I don't know how many years but it's not something just introduced and it has been referred to here several times so I'm sorry if you were not aware of it.

 

More and more people are going to find this is happening with computer software and I see Microsoft is going over to a yearly subscription basis for OFFICE 2013 ..... They can't afford the cost of support from one payment and while most security software is on an annual licence basis the cost of keeping up with malware gets higher and higher.

 

Most cases of ransomeware that I've come across don't get stopped by security software because the user inadvertently invites it in even by clicking on No Thanks .......

 

If you'd like some help in getting out of the ransom situation I'm sure there are people here who can point you in the right direction if you have not been there yet. I hope you did not pay up.

4

Hugh,

 

There is ZERO cost to keeping an old copy active on someone's machine. You don't need to offer support, or updates or anything! The ONLY cost at that point is MY electricity bill! 

 

I can understand denying support, I can understand denying updates. I understand there is a cost to that. but the ONLY reason to turn off an old copy is to "force" more revenue from the customer. 

 

Maybe the old copy would not have saved me anyway. Furthermore, maybe being forced to update is a good idea because it would save me from a future threat that I otherwise would not be protected against. 

 

BUT, that is not the issue here. This IN NOT THE SAME as Microsoft!!! Why? Because if I don't pay Microsoft all I need to do is send them a payment and I have all my documents back, no real damage done (and or I can just save them to my local machine). However, in the case of antivirus, even IF I make a "missed" payment its TOO LATE!!!! I am already screwed!!! You don't magically make it like it never happened (as is the case with Microsoft). Microsoft holds my documents protected in their cloud until I pay, do you protect my machine in the cloud until I pay?

 

This is ENTIRELY different. You are not making it perfectly clear how screwed and unprotected people will be if they don't pay. It was not even remotely clear to me I had purchased a "service" and not "software". That is deceptive and it is what the FTC and attorney generals look for. Hell, I can go buy it in a box at a local store! Who sells "services" in a box with CD's that install to my machine?

 

You are not saying "not only will you not get updates, but we will take the software on your local machine and turn it off". You know darn well this is a new way of doing business that was not the software model for the last several decades and exploiting peoples trust and reliance on what they think they are getting. It's deceptive and misleading and NOT the way you treat customers.

 

Had it been perfectly clear this was the case it would be different. However, I am a highly respected software developer and did not have even the slightest idea this was the case. Should I have read the agreement closer? I suppose so, but I made the mistake of TRUSTING you and not thinking I needed to read your agreement with a fine tooth comb to make sure you were not screwing me over. If I "have" to do business with you in the future I guess I will hire a $400 an hour attorney to make sure I understand all your fine print! 

 

The bottom line is that it is WRONG to sell a cloud based "service" to people who think they have purchased software they own forever on their local machine (like it always had been for decades). Furthermore, the cost of this deception is not just software that is not working, but possibly family photos ands irreplaceable heirlooms, or tens of thousands of dollars in work in data. I would love the FTC to show deception on your part and make you responsible to every person who lost anything and have to pay all their recovery or replacement costs! A punitive penalty  for deception would be nice too! 

 

I have already gladly purchased a solution for my companies 14 other machines, and I am proud to report it was not from Symantec, and will never again be. Bye-bye to a approx 20 year relationship because of your misleading, unethical, deceptive practices. The bottom line is that "protection" is about trust, and you have totally blown ALL trust I had in you!

 

 

 

5

So be it. I wish you well with your new security product provider.

We'll be here when you need us

6

<< ...  to people who think they have purchased software they own forever on their local machine (like it always had been for decades). >>

 

Well there is one fundemental misunderstanding. You do not own the software and have not for I don't know how many years but for longer than I've been around and that goes back to Windows 3.1 -- I'm amazed that you develop software for sale and don't know this.

 

What you purchase is a licence to use under certain conditions and those conditions include a period of time. At the end of that time your rights cease and just as your right to occupy an apartment ends when the lease runs out so your right to use software ends when your licence ends.

 

That applies very very widely -- just read the EULA and the small print for example on website pages on Norton products.

 

<< 1 Year Protection: With this service, you receive the right to use this product on one PC or on the specified number of PCs during the service period, which begins upon initial installation and activation. This renewable service includes protection updates and new product features as available during the service period, subject to acceptance of the Norton License Agreement included with this product and available for review at www.symantec.com. Product features may be added, modified, or removed during the service period.  >>

 

Don't bluster with me about this -- I spent a large part of my working life running a company that licenced high technology to industry and I understand technology licencing.

 

You believe you were infected because Norton stopped working -- that is far from certain as I've already said since ransomeware often infects through an action of the user -- but would you have been any less upset if Norton had still been operating under a frozen defence that had not been updated enough to protect you?

 

I doubt it -- you made two mistakes: you didn't understand your licence and you forgot to renew your licence. Don't blame Norton for your mistakes .... just be embarassed by them.

 

As for losing all your work because of ransomware I doubt if that was necessary if you had dealt with the problem intelligently instead of showing off on Facebook.

7

If you have indeed lost your work then you have also missed another regular business practice. Backups. Any developer I have heard of has multilple backups of their work.

 

 

 

8

Backups are great if they work, but I have lost faith in Norton 360 backups after discovering folders were missing.

9
jrchristensen wrote:

Backups are great if they work, but I have lost faith in Norton 360 backups after discovering folders were missing.

I understand that this is the N 360 board, but peterweb never suggested you had to use N 360 - I know I don't.

10
yank wrote:
jrchristensen wrote:

Backups are great if they work, but I have lost faith in Norton 360 backups after discovering folders were missing.

I understand that this is the N 360 board, but peterweb never suggested you had to use N 360 - I know I don't.

As Yank says, a business should be using a business backup solution. N360 is for home users that want to back up their photos or personal documents. Yes, these items are important to the user, but if things are that important, a multi level backup routine should be used. ie CDs, DVDs, etc.

 

 

 

11

Hugh,

You refer to the end users license agreement and you should know that statistic show almost NOBODY reads them. Norton's software did not USED to work this way (I don't know exactly when it changed). They don't make it clear this is the case, otherwise there would not be so many others complaining and surprised about the exact same thing!!!

Lets do some quick statistics..................Lets go to OfficeMax, or Staples, or Best Buy and buy every bit of boxed software sold. Then lets see what percentage of them will operate forever on a computer after installation and which will automatically be disabled if you don't "renew"......................WOW, I bet over 90% of them (if not 99% of them) run forever! GEE, I wonder how somebody would assume this is the way your software would work too?!!!! (like it used to)

 

Like I said, if I ever have to do business with Norton I will make sure to hire an attorney to read all your terms and conditions first. My major mistake was TRUSTING you, this lured me into a false sense of security. Yes, MY MISTAKE!

 

I have already fixed (disinfected) my computer with the FREE version of MalewareBytes.....

I am not impressed by your background, if you were such a smart big shot I don't think you would have the menial job of (attempting to) insult upset customers. Shouldn't your responses be designed to make a good, positive impression of your firm? If so, you are failing at this TOO!

Then you imply I should know better because of my background, MAYBE SO. Are you then saying that the other customers without my background and who know much less about software are screwed?

Your response's only confirm my feelings about Norton. Instead of acknowledging the obvious, your friendly response is "Hey, we covered our butt in the fine print so f@#k off"

12

I am aware of both sides of the industry concerns here. What saddens me is that both sides remain in constant conflict. Business suppliers are continually being short-sighted in their selfish quest for efficiency and profit. While the free market allows for businesses to make a profit, the management team has to temper its focus to not totally fall into stupidity. Their product model must consider and allow for minimal negative customer impact in the delivery, maintenance, and renewal approach they design in their product model.

 

The customer here admits to not taking proper action to renew the product. This action is not unusual. Non-experienced customers do this quite regularly. I know, in that i go in to try to help them recover from these type problems. Trying to call the customer an idiot or brow beating him does nothing to solve the problem he has or does it  facilitate the effective use of the Norton products in business setting.

 

Solving the problem and facilitating the effective use of the Norton products in his business setting is what is really important here. Norton has the capability of solving both with minimal customer impact, and certainly without the negative impact stated in the customer's write-up.  They can simply not turn the software off. Consider this. If you have Norton 360 Multi-Device, you would not want your PC Backup and Tuning features turned off. Upgrading would be more sensible for new versions rather than a complete product turn-off. A business needs to continue to operate. Norton by the turn-off feature cripples a buiness' operations. No supplier should aim to do that.

 

And for the guy who said 90% of the products have a complete turn-off approach, he must not have used Windows 7 or 8, etc., or any of the OS X products. I can name many more products that do not just turn-off. So Norton is really to blame here for becoming predatory in its product model, by trying to drive profitability at the customer's expense. Norton has taken a very dangerous approach thinking that it dominates the market niche. If it does not repair its product strategy or if more customers wise up to what this customer has painfully discovered, Norton could end up losing considerable market share. If you think it is not true, look at the former corporate giants in the business space who have fallen far from their perches.

 

The disposalble product model is like saying one size fits all. I can assure you that having been a Fortune top 50 enterprise executive for many years, product liscensing does not work the same for all customers.

13
DeanHoffman wrote:

My major mistake was TRUSTING you, this lured me into a false sense of security. Yes, MY MISTAKE!

It is true that the program used to continue to run without virus signature updates, but the program is now much more than just a scanning engine, and the license covers many essential core components that did not even exist years ago.  Yes, if you are expecting the subscription to operate as it did in the past, the deactivation can come as a surprise (it happened to me, too).  But it is not unreasonable that a subscription-based product should not continue to function beyond the period of use for which you have paid.   The program does display several alerts prior to the expiration date, warning that the subscription is going to run out and that you will be unprotected. 

 

14
DeanHoffman wrote:

Hugh,

You refer to the end users license agreement and you should know that statistic show almost NOBODY reads them. Norton's software did not USED to work this way (I don't know exactly when it changed). They don't make it clear this is the case, otherwise there would not be so many others complaining and surprised about the exact same thing!!!

 

The software did not used to work that way, and malware writers did not used to be so prolific in earlier times. With tens of thousands of malware variants released every day, a non updated virus program would be giving a false sense of security. Users would stlill be upset at an out of date security program that let malware onto their system, and would then be blaming the security company, who would not have been at fault because the user chose not to update their subscription.


Lets do some quick statistics..................Lets go to OfficeMax, or Staples, or Best Buy and buy every bit of boxed software sold. Then lets see what percentage of them will operate forever on a computer after installation and which will automatically be disabled if you don't "renew"......................WOW, I bet over 90% of them (if not 99% of them) run forever! GEE, I wonder how somebody would assume this is the way your software would work too?!!!! (like it used to)

 

Most software you refer to is not something that needs to be updated multiple times a DAY. Most of your example software would probably not need updating more than once or twice a year, and would not create a security vulnerability if an update was missed.

 

Like I said, if I ever have to do business with Norton I will make sure to hire an attorney to read all your terms and conditions first. My major mistake was TRUSTING you, this lured me into a false sense of security. Yes, MY MISTAKE!

 

If you are running a business, you should be using a business class product from, in this case, Symantec. Norton products are for home use.

 

I have already fixed (disinfected) my computer with the FREE version of MalewareBytes.....

 

Malwarebytes success in removing your malware shows that no one product can detect or remove 100% of malware. A second scan with an on demand scanner is a wise choice for your security regimin.

I am not impressed by your background, if you were such a smart big shot I don't think you would have the menial job of (attempting to) insult upset customers. Shouldn't your responses be designed to make a good, positive impression of your firm? If so, you are failing at this TOO!

Then you imply I should know better because of my background, MAYBE SO. Are you then saying that the other customers without my background and who know much less about software are screwed?

 

You also must have ignored the reminders that start with about 3 weeks to expiry. Your product and emails should have notified you of the pending expiration.

Your response's only confirm my feelings about Norton. Instead of acknowledging the obvious, your friendly response is "Hey, we covered our butt in the fine print so f@#k off"

 

Please not the posters with names in Bold Red Letters are Symantec employees. The rest of us are just users and volunteer to try to help users from our experience with the Norton Products.

 

 

15

I actually wasn't aware that once my license expires, 360 would stop operating on my PC so I'll remember that when my expiration date approaches.

 

My prior AV poduct (ESET) may have been the same, ceasing operation when the license expired, but I didn't allow the license to elapse before renewing so I'm not sure about ESET.

 

I added my Norton 360 expiration date in my Outlook calendar when I downloaded 360 for the 1st time, allowing about 2 weeks before the actual expiration date, so I can't forget but I assume that Norton routinely notifies customers when their license expiration date is near.

 

Regarding backups, I assume that everyone does that but perhaps not.  I have 2 cloned HDD's that are always ready to use in the event of any malware/virus issues.  I don't use Norton though.  I use Acronis for cloning.

 

[edit] I read more of the thread here and see that Norton alerts the user regarding the upcoming expiration date.  I figured that was the case but didn't see the 2nd page of posts here before I posted.

16
SendOfJive wrote:
[...]
The program does display several alerts prior to the expiration date, warning that the subscription is going to run out and that you will be unprotected. 

 

Except that, in terms of these alerts, Symantec has decided to drop the 'nice and clear' approach in favour of ambiguity again for users of the version 20 products:

 

NIS 20-1-1-2 Subscription Alert.png

 

or:

 

NIS 20-1-1-2 Subscription Alert - 6 days.png

 

Given the above, isn't creating a completely new design for the Security Alerts, based on the value of 'days remaining', a gross waste of Norton Product developer's time? 

 

Food for thought...

 

That said, if the OP saw the following dialog box at any stage after the product expired, and subsequently chose to ignore it, then perhaps the OP could explain why he considers this to be a problem with the Norton Security Product's behaviour? 

 

NIS 2012 B1_18 Subscription Alert - expired - remind me in 1 day.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

17

From my own experience (I am not a norton employee, just a user), I have used norton 360 since 2008, only trying a free bee (MSE) one year during that time.  Norton always informed me, like the previous posters images, when time was getting close to experation.  When my subscription did expire before going to MSE, I experienced what you did!  It was ransomware as another poster stated.  I had to turn my pc back to an earlier time.  It was showing up as an update for windows.  But had nothing to do with windows.  I made the mistake of clicking on it and it tried to sell me a security program.  Norton had nothing to do with it and neither did Microsoft.  I finally came back to Norton, because while with MSE(freebee), I got a trojan.  Norton has always gave my pc the protection it needs.  Even having some issues to work out, they will work out though.  Any of the Norton employees I've ever live chatted with or talked with on the phone, have always been friendly and helpful.  With the exception of Nathan, he doesn't understand me half the time, but he's a virtual agent!.